Wii VS. PS3

[ChadTower]

Plus, during the N64 hardware dev cycle, they had basically an unlimited amount of time.  No Microsoft, Sega was barely a factor, and Sony was even farther from a new console than they were.  That is not the case this time.

[lloydcom]

I always find it amazing when a console comes out, that there is one good game and very substandard additional ones at launch.  The old comment about hardware is lightyears ahead of software is very true.  I remember when the 386 came out and people were still writing software for the 286.  How Windows transitioned.

It takes a long while to get used to a particular instruction set, capabilities of memory usage, etc.  Look how the Commodore 64 exploited the capability of programmers back in the middle 80's.  Gameplay and graphics were the norm.  Now it is just cinema.  No gameplay.  You can spend hours on paradroid.

I say we have not seen the capabilities of either Xbox 360 or PS3 to come out and dazzle.  Its is a shame that consoles have a shelf life, before their coders exploit their capabilities.  The Dreamcast is a prime example.  Half Life 2 is another, running on Directx 8 and still looking good.  Heck looking better.

I'm also surprised how console makers shun PC users.  Keyboard and Mouse is a winning yet classic combination.  Why is it that consoles do not have this function?  I cannot play a FPS on a joypad, its uncormfortable and unweildy.  I'm sure that if this ability to use keyboard and mouse was available for the 360 or PS3/2 many of us would have ditched our PCs by now.

For the time being, either its wii Xbox or Sony, time will tell and it is time the coders need to bring an excellent game to life.

[AlanS17]

Zelda is not a good reason to buy a Wii.  Zelda is available, in its entirety, on another system that costs 1/3 as much, and is five years old so you likely already own one.  You buy the system for the remote, not for the game.  Hence, Zelda's not the Wii's killer app.

I had a million opportunities to buy a Game Cube over the past several years, but never did it - even when the price came down. When I saw the new controller for the Wii, I thought, "Wow, that's lame. That'll never fly."

Then I saw the E3 demo of Zelda for the Wii and decided I needed to have that system because I want to play that game the way it's played on a Wii. If that same game were released for the Game Cube, I wouldn't have bought it.

You can argue all day that it's the same game, but it's not. The Game Cube version would never have made me go buy a Game Cube, but the Wii version made me decide I wanted a Wii.

Maybe Zelda isn't YOUR killer app, but it's definitely mine beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[SithMaster]

On the keyboard and mouse for console idea, it would never fly.  mainly because, i think, console makers want to offer something simple and intuitive that it takes very little effort to play a game.  otherwise people would just play pc games.  with a console its just pop a disc in and use the gamepad.  also if they used a keyboard and mouse it would cut sales for controllers since anyone could use a pc compatible keyboard.

its a good idea, look at typing of the dead for dreamcast and other games that used it for that system.

@killerapp- what about call of duty 3 on the wii?  i only want it for the wii becuase of the remote.

[Zero_Hour]

I hear what you are saying SithMaster, but after playing FPS on PC's for 10+ years, I find trying to play one with a gamepad anything but simple or intuitive. I just wish they would give me the option of plugging in a KB & Mouse as an option. I can customize my button layouts on almost any console game made available, why not just let me map the controls to other compatible perhiperals? With USB support the norm on the new consoles, maybe developers will see the light and go that one extra step. And with development budgets what they are these days, I don't want anybody trying to tell me it's a cost issue. 

I don't think it would really impact profits on additional controllers, as I'm not looking to replace the gamepad for every single game I play on a console, I just want to expand my options where it most makes sense.

[AlanS17]

Frankly, I'm rather surprised that they didn't start implementing USB input devices for console FPS's 5 years ago.

Back on topic... PS3 costs too much. Wii is the shiznit. Zelda is a killer app.

[shmokes]

Y'all are so hung up on whether or not Zelda is a killer app. that you're completely missing my point.  I don't care if it's a killer app.  I already said it can be a killer app. if you want it to be.  I'm sure that I was a bit hasty in suggesting that nobody was buying the system for Zelda.  I'm sure I'm wrong about that (it ain't anything like 19 out of 20, but whatever . . . Zelda's got a lot of hardcore fans . . . ). 

My point is simply that the first party studios of all three companies dropped the ball, which is strange considering the advantage they have over 3rd parties when it comes to launch games, with early access to dev kits, etc.  This applies to Nintendo regardless of whether Zelda is a killer app, because while they ported a great game to the console, their first party studios still failed to complete any kick-ass games to show off what the Wii is capable of, and no, Zelda does not accomplish this -- not in graphics nor in control. 

Zelda: Twilight Princess is better than any other launch title.  But Zelda: Twilight Princess for the Gamecube will be better than any other Wii launch game as well.  It is the same game.  It is a kick-ass game, and Nintendo has turned it into a temporary exclusive by arbitrarily holding back the long-completed Gamecube version, which certainly gives impatient Zelda fans one more good reason to pick up the Wii.  And I even suspect that some aspects of control on the Wii version (bow & arrow, hookshot, fishing, etc.) are superior to the GC version (while certain aspects are possibly worse -- swinging the sword and camera control, for example).  I retract what I said about Zelda not selling systems, but it simply is not the killer app we are used to from a Nintendo console launch.  To put it simply, it is not Super Mario Galaxy, a game that was built from the ground up around the Wii hardware, and built from the ground up to take advantage of the Wii remote, rather than simply taking a game developed for a gamepad and mapping gestures to gamepad button presses.  And it is a game that was originally planned for, and should have been ready for the launch.

But whatever, I guess . . . I seriously don't think we disagree on any of the facts.  We just interpret them differently, I guess.  We all probably feel exactly the same about the quality of Twilight Princess -- it's great*.  We all probably agree that Nintendo failed to ready Metroid, Mario Galaxy, Warioware, Battalion Wars, Mario Strikers, Cooking Mama, Mario Party, or Smash Bro. in time for launch.  Every one of these titles is being developed from the ground up for the Wii, and every one of them missed the launch.  Any one of them could be the potential killer app (aside from Strikers, I suppose) that really shows off the Wii.  Zelda is a killer app, but only for the reasons it will be a killer app on the Gamecube.  It's just a high quality game, but it is not THE game to make you fall in love with the Wii hardware.  If anything, that chore probably falls to Wii Sports or a 3rd Party game, and none of those, IMO, really do the hardware justice.



*I've never actually played Twilight Princess so I suppose I could end up disappointed with it, though I REALLY doubt that will happen.

[shmokes]

http://gear.ign.com/articles/558/558944p1.html
http://www.xcm.cc/xcm_xfps_360.htm

First link is to keyboard/mouse support for PS2 and Xbox.  Second link is to similar support for Xbox 360.  FWIW reviews seemed to be pretty positive for the first device.  I wasn't even aware of the Xbox 360 device until a few minutes ago.

To be honest my guess is that a keyboard and mouse just don't work that well on the sofa, which is where 99% of people play consoles.  Everybody, including console manufacturers know that it's a superior control scheme, but it's not really practical for the vast majority of console gamers cos they don't play at a desk.  One has to wonder if they actively want to avoid the use of keyboard and mouse at least in multiplayer games because it would create such an advantage for the few people who have the hardware.  I have no opinion one way or the other on that . . . just throwing it out there.

[AtomSmasher]

To be honest my guess is that a keyboard and mouse just don't work that well on the sofa, which is where 99% of people play consoles.  Everybody, including console manufacturers know that it's a superior control scheme, but it's not really practical for the vast majority of console gamers cos they don't play at a desk.  One has to wonder if they actively want to avoid the use of keyboard and mouse at least in multiplayer games because it would create such an advantage for the few people who have the hardware.  I have no opinion one way or the other on that . . . just throwing it out there.

Agreed.  One great keyboard idea for a couch keyboard/mouse solution is the lapboard from phantom entertainment (at least something good came from their "amazing" console they could never finish)

http://www.phantom.net/content/products/index.html

[shmokes]

I can't believe the thing ever came out.  Dunno how they expected to ever sell a console that had a $130 controller, but I have to admit that it looks like a nice setup for people who can afford it, though if it's just FPS controls you want I think the Wii controller offers a superior solution at a fraction of the price. 

[ClubNinja]

We all probably agree that Nintendo failed to ready Metroid, Mario Galaxy, Warioware, Battalion Wars, Mario Strikers, Cooking Mama, Mario Party, or Smash Bro. in time for launch.  Every one of these titles is being developed from the ground up for the Wii, and every one of them missed the launch.  Any one of them could be the potential killer app... If anything, that chore probably falls to Wii Sports or a 3rd Party game, and none of those, IMO, really do the hardware justice.

Unlike early PS3 adopters, Wii owners are - in general - very content playing the games that were available for launch.  With the PS3, people are saying "well, Resistance is OK, but that's about it."  With the Wii, people are excited, spreading interest through word of mouth, and consequently, Wii consoles are starting to become harder to find in stores than PS3s.  Nintendo has a solid and happy installed Wii user base already, and all the best games (as you've listed them above) are still to come.   PS3 owners are still waiting.  Arguably, most 360 owners were waiting long after launch to feel good about their purchase.  Sounds like a best-case scenario for Nintendo - not the ball-dropping you make it out to be.  A successful launch only requires a ton of sales and happy buyers to go with them, not the very best of the lineup dropped all at once.

[ChadTower]

Plus, if you use the actual retail industry criteria, both consoles have a 100% sales rate.  Every unit sells out regardless.

[shmokes]

There's so much buzz around a consoles release that early sales data are not especially indicative of the quality of the console or the lineup.  Nobody argues that the Xbox 360 lineup lacked a single killer app, and the PS3 lineup is pretty clearly mediocre overall.  But 360 was impossible to find until after March 2006, and PS3 will probably follow suit.  It's not that the games are just that irresistible.  It's that it's the next-gen console and people just want it.

Remember that Dreamcast had the most successful launch in console history and look what happened to it.  Actually they had the great games to back it up too.  Who the hell knows what happened to the Dreamcast?

[versapak]

There's so much buzz around a consoles release that early sales data are not especially indicative of the quality of the console or the lineup.  Nobody argues that the Xbox 360 lineup lacked a single killer app, and the PS3 lineup is pretty clearly mediocre overall.  But 360 was impossible to find until after March 2006, and PS3 will probably follow suit.  It's not that the games are just that irresistible.  It's that it's the next-gen console and people just want it.

Remember that Dreamcast had the most successful launch in console history and look what happened to it.  Actually they had the great games to back it up too.  Who the hell knows what happened to the Dreamcast?

Never mind all the praise that just about everyone who owns one is giving it.


I have seen very few people who actually own a Wii, going on about how they didn't release any quality games.

Of course we want the next Metroid and the next Mario, but we are not starved for them. The games that did launch have been more than adequate in keeping me satisfied with my purchase.

We all know that you don't consider Zelda:TP a killer Wii title, but I for one do. It did launch with the Wii, and there was no other system out there that had it. Regardless of the fact that it was eventually launching for the GC as well, or the fact that they delayed that GC launch just to have something big on the Wii... So what? It is a great game. It makes EXCELLENT use of the Wii controller. It is not a lil 6 hour title. It is one of the best entries into the Zelda franchise, and it is keeping most people busy with it for quite some time.

On top of Zelda, Wii Sports & Super Monkey Ball have been regular entertainment in my house since we got them on launch day (Rayman would probably be as well, but Nintendo was kind enough to sell the Nunchuck seperately from the Wiimote, and just as kind to ensure they had about 1/8th of the quantity available). They are extremely fun, and I consider those to be pretty killer titles as well.

Those amazing "built from the ground up for Wii" games will come eventually, but even without Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid, Nintendo's launch was certainly nothing short of great.

I'd reckon that the vast majority of those that actually own one would agree.

[shmokes]

Funny . . . I just went back and read the comment that started all this.  I even called Zelda a killer app in that post.  And I still stand by everything in it.

"Generally speaking Nintendo comes through in spades (Super Mario Bros., Super Mario World, Super Mario 64), but this time the only reason they even have a killer app is because they cannibalized it from the Gamecube.  The best they did in-house from the ground up is ExciteTruck, which isn't even very good."

I think the above quote is just clearly a fact.  It might not bother you, but I don't know how you can argue against its accuracy.  And I haven't been saying any more or less than this ever since.

[versapak]

Funny . . . I just went back and read the comment that started all this.  I even called Zelda a killer app in that post.  And I still stand by everything in it.

"Generally speaking Nintendo comes through in spades (Super Mario Bros., Super Mario World, Super Mario 64), but this time the only reason they even have a killer app is because they cannibalized it from the Gamecube.  The best they did in-house from the ground up is ExciteTruck, which isn't even very good."

I think the above quote is just clearly a fact.  It might not bother you, but I don't know how you can argue against its accuracy.  And I haven't been saying any more or less than this ever since.

Fair enough.


It doesn't bother me. Though I find Wii Sports to be better than Excite Truck.

[ClubNinja]

"Generally speaking Nintendo comes through in spades (Super Mario Bros., Super Mario World, Super Mario 64), but this time the only reason they even have a killer app is because they cannibalized it from the Gamecube.  The best they did in-house from the ground up is ExciteTruck, which isn't even very good."

I think the above quote is just clearly a fact.

Not entirely.  That last bit is completely opinion.  And I think ExciteTruck is fantastic.  I haven't seen so many people having good times at kiosks when ExciteTruck was available for play at EB/Gamestop in ages, either.   

[ChadTower]

The kid I saw try to run away with the controller was playing ExciteTruck.   

[shmokes]

ExciteTruck is the only game I've played on a couple of occasions.  At first I thought it was possibly the worst game ever made, but I'm pretty sure the batteries were just dying on the controller.  From what I've played I'd give say it's kinda fun, but that's it.  Nowhere near as good as a Burnout or Rallysport Challenge or San Francisco Rush.  Just mediocre.  Maybe I just haven't played it enough to realize how much depth there is hiding under the surface, but . . . I guess someday when I have a Wii I'll be able to answer that.

[sphetr2]

The best they did in-house from the ground up is ExciteTruck, which isn't even very good."

Err...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't WarioWare a 1st party title?

[shmokes]

It is, and it looks like it might be an amazing title, but it didn't make the launch.  It is still unreleased.  Release date is Jan. 17.

[sphetr2]

Hmm...for some odd reason, I thought it was a launch title...perhaps I was thinking of Rayman.

[somunny]

You may have seen it lumped in with "launch window" games.  That's how they get ya!

[Pekay]

I do think Wii are winning, since its got more features than the PS3 I think. Because Nintendo managed to roll out the wiimote that you can do all sorts with including cracking precious objects . Seems more fun too.

[RTSDaddy2]

Have seen recently where Sony is now calling the Wii a "novelty" and that "real gamers" will come home to the PS3 soon enough.

 

(cough...) Excuse me....if  a "real gamer" goes home to the PS3 these days, how does he get his game to play? By waiting 10 - 15 minutes for new updates to download that MIGHT (if he's lucky) fix the problem?  At least my favorite new toy, this so-called "novelty" works!

[GameOver]

Had my kids at the mall to see Santa the other week & we stopped at Gamestop afterwards.  I asked if they had any Wii's or PS3's, they had one PS3 so I bought it, along with Resistance and NFS Carbon.  Neither are 5.1 and I DO have a 5.1 set-up  (must be one of Versapak's friends...).

Anyway, I haven't played a Wii yet but am anxious to.  I've only played the two games on PS3, which I think are both great.  I've been playing NFS on my 10' projection set-up and it's really intense, the graphics are pretty darn good for the first wave of games for this system.  NFS runs at 720p, so does Resistance.

I will say that I have had to download one update (annoying), and that changing the audio/video setting's between my 57" TV no surround vs. my projector room is annoying.  The PS network is nice since it's free, but so far there aren't many members but I expect that will change in time (after Christmas?  ).

I admit that it was expensive, but I'm very satisified with my purchase.  Game on!

[ChadTower]

I definitely agree that by now there should be profiles for config settings like that.  Such a small bit of software to put in that adds so much to usability.

[AlanS17]

Today marked the 5th time I've walked into a store when they had at least one PS3 in stock... and promptly proceeded to sell out while I was there. The local GameStop received 10 PS3's today, and they were sold out within 2 hours. I didn't even bother asking about Wii's.

[shmokes]

My brother was in Gamestop today and they had 6 PS3s on the shelf and nobody seemed interested in buying them.

Here's my theory about Wiis.  I think this next Shipment the stores are going to get is going to be HUGE.  Here's how I figure it.  The Target my brother works at got 42 Wiis on launch day.  Nintendo sold through some 600,000 units on launch day.  That number was less than the 1 million they said they would have, but Nintendo maintained that they would still sell 4 million by the end of the year.  Since launch Target had one more shipment of 30 units (71% as large as the first shipment).  If allotments were similar across the board Nintendo's next allotments to retailers would only have racked up about 426,000 more sales, or just over 1 million sold at this point, total.  So tell me, when exactly are they planning to sell 3 million more Wiis?  Between the 25th and the 31st?

I wonder if Nintendo isn't deliberately holding out to create a frenzy about the scarcity and they're going to suddenly come through just in time to save Christmas.

Of course I could be way off base and have nothing to base my theory on about allotments being consistent across the board, but . . .

[AlanS17]

My brother was in Gamestop today and they had 6 PS3s on the shelf and nobody seemed interested in buying them.

Not when they're $600 a pop. Parents love their kids, but a $600 Christmas is pushing it. A $250 Christmas gift is much easier to swallow. Even the grown-ups that want a PS3 for themselves will find it hard to afford one before Christmas when they're buying gifts for everyone else. Even still, they do continue to sell out.

[Zero_Hour]

So tell me, when exactly are they planning to sell 3 million more Wiis? 

Where, not when. Wasn't the 4 million number their global total?

[RTSDaddy2]

This weekend will be interesting to say the least - my Mom hates huge crowds so I've already informed her about the possible "2nd release" of both.

To our PS3 bretheren, I would say to you that yea, verily I have seen thy machine and  it does have the power of impressive graphics.  There can be no denying that.   Yet, when my mind wanders to good times, good friends, yea even much pizza and beer, and fun gameplay, let us turn to the book of Wii and find many interesting titles available now - and more on the way.

Plus there's that hefty $600 price tag and no packaged game.  That I have put another $250 in to this new experience is not at all unlikely...but for my money I have the Wii,  four games (in addition to Wii sports), an extra remote, nunchuck, Wii points (which lends to a couple more games) and component cables.

One additional word though - parents, yea verily, you are warned...use the parental code options if you don't want your Wii points up in smoke.  My 4 year old daughter purchased F-zero for us the other day, quite by accident.  I was saving those points for Super Mario World - but I told my wife, at least the little one downloaded a true classic!

[shmokes]

So tell me, when exactly are they planning to sell 3 million more Wiis? 

Where, not when. Wasn't the 4 million number their global total?

I just looked it up and you're right.  That's the global number, but they did say that the majority of that number is going to North America.

[SNAAKE]

wii of course..cheap AND fun http://youtube.com/watch?v=q93PvyKUa2I 

[shmokes]

I wonder if Nintendo isn't deliberately holding out to create a frenzy about the scarcity and they're going to suddenly come through just in time to save Christmas.

Well, so much for my theory.  The Target my brother works at just got their newest shipment (and the last they're expecting before Christmas) and it was only 18 units.

[RTSDaddy2]

wii of course..cheap AND fun

Amen.  I just picked up Super Swing Golf, adding it to TP, Madden 07, Rayman, and Wii Sports.  My dilema through Christmas won't be what to play, but WHICH to play!

(I promise guys, one day I will stop gushing over the Wii, but I cannot get over this thing's fun value.  It's been used every day since I bought it, and the last system that even came close to that for us was the N64.)

[ChadTower]

The only purpose of hype at retail is to sell more units.  When the units are selling instantly at a rate of 100% unit sales, creating hype doesn't get you anything.  I just can't see Nintendo holding back until the very last second.  Most people will have blown their Xmas wad by then.

[AtomSmasher]

Woot sold PS3's today, although they were gone in the first few minutes, their description was hilarious.  It was basically the Wii is so great that they are selling PS3's so that they can buy a bunch of Wii's.  Then when you click on the detailed image of the PS3 you get this, which I thought was great.

[Samstag]

Yeah that was one of the best Woots ever (whether you like the PS3 or not).

Gotta love them for ragging on the PS3 while at the same time offering to ship them next day (Saturday) delivery for $5.

[bishmasterb]

I've had a Wii since launch day, and I picked up a PS3 last Saturday.

The Wii is fun, although Zelda is graphically unimpressive, and Sports is a bit gimmicky. The only other game I have, Red Steel seems somewhat engaging, but I haven't played it a lot yet. My kids seem to love the system though (ages 7 and 13). I really wish Nintendo would have included HD support. I'm not questioning whether it was a good move for the market or not (time will tell) but I personally hate watching SD content on a big HD screen on a 2006 piece of hardware.

The only software I have for the PS3 is Ridge Racer 7 and a couple of Bluray movies. The Bluray playback is nothing short of amazing to me. Playing movies at 1080i at 73" is a very theater-like experience (unfortunately my setup isn't working at 1080p, which is apparently a fairly common problem that hopefully a firmware update will cure).

As a humrous side note, my wife also got me an original NES for Christmas with several games. My kids played SMB for hours and hours while the PS3 and Wii sat cold.