Wii doesn't use Dolby digital 5.1 audio

[AlanS17]

I just found out last night that the Wii won't do any sort of 5.1 digital audio (optical or coax). That's a major let-down. I can live with the EDTV video signal (because at least it's widescreen and progressive), but now I'm stuck with Dolby ProLogic2 on top of that? That sucks...

[versapak]

I just found out last night that the Wii won't do any sort of 5.1 digital audio (optical or coax). That's a major let-down. I can live with the EDTV video signal (because at least it's widescreen and progressive), but now I'm stuck with Dolby ProLogic2 on top of that? That sucks...

Yeah, I thought they would at least upgrade that aspect of the GameCube, but no...

[bleemus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they ever claimed that they were going to have anything other than stereo sound?

[versapak]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they ever claimed that they were going to have anything other than stereo sound?

No one here ever said they did.

It doesn't make it any less disappointing though.

The step from stereo to digital surround sound is as profound as the step from color to black & white, and to see another generation of gaming, (on a Nintendo platform) without that, just plain sucks.

[ChadTower]

Depends.  Not many games in the recently ended generation had it.  They probably figured the target demographic for the Wii will have a very low occurrence of 5.1 enabled and set up environments, so they focused on things that everyone would have.  Like the controllers.

I have an elaborate sound setup but don't really care if the Wii has 5.1.  That's not what Nintendo is going for.

[versapak]

Depends.  Not many games in the recently ended generation had it.  They probably figured the target demographic for the Wii will have a very low occurrence of 5.1 enabled and set up environments, so they focused on things that everyone would have.  Like the controllers.

I have an elaborate sound setup but don't really care if the Wii has 5.1.  That's not what Nintendo is going for.

huh?

The Xbox was full of games that had it.

As for Nintendo not going for that... Well... Duh... Otherwise it would be there.

Still... I stand by my statement of digital surround sound being as important as the step from b&w to color.

The added level of immersion and gameplay mechanics that are added by it are amazing, and I honestly can't imagine it would have added that much to the cost of the system.

I understand that Nintendo is all about new kinds of more accessible gaming. I have had a Wii since launch day, and I love it, but it could have only been improved by better visuals and sound.

The only innovation that Nintendo brought, this generation, was in the form of a controller that could be added pretty affordably to ANY gaming system out there.

Granted, the fact that it is included with the system means that we will see support of it, rather than the fore mentioned case of add on peripherals, but still... I love the controller, the ideas they have for it, and its future potential, but simple fact is...

I would love it more if it was on a PS3 or 360.

Great visuals and audio are not what make a game, but I'd like to see one case of a game that was actually hurt by em.

[ChadTower]

The Xbox was full of games that had it.

One of three consoles and it was still only a subset of the console's library.

[versapak]

The Xbox was full of games that had it.

One of three consoles and it was still only a subset of the console's library.

If subset = vast majority, then yes. 

[ChadTower]

So then you already have 5.1 gaming.  Be happy.

I'm surprised you're not complaining about the lack of 7.1 gaming.  I mean 5.1 is so yesterday.   

[versapak]

So then you already have 5.1 gaming.  Be happy.

I'm surprised you're not complaining about the lack of 7.1 gaming.  I mean 5.1 is so yesterday.  

Not hardly the same leap, and no where near a standard in peoples' homes.

5.1 digital surround is very much a standard in homes today, and as for Nintendo's target audience... I am part their target. If all they were shooting for was grandmas and non-gamers, then they would basically be shooting for failure. Yeah, I have been able to get my daughter and wife gaming on the Wii, where I was not able to on other systems, but the simple fact is, neither of them would care one bit to own one of their own. The Wii is not going to create a new market for gamers. It will just allow us gamers to widen the audience that is willing to play with us.


...and who said I wasn't happy?

Go ahead... Try and find one post from me (after owning a Wii) that has anything about me being not happy with it.

I have been having nothing but fun with it. Does that mean I am not allowed to wish it did some stuff better?


One thing that always amazes me about this place, is just how stuck in the past so many of its members are.

I had TONS of fun with my Atari 2600. I mean TONS!!!

To hell with the NES, SMS, Genesis, SNES, TG16, PSX, N64, etc...

[ChadTower]

5.1 digital surround is very much a standard in homes today

Hellllllll no.  Most people I know don't have 5.1 setups, even if they have a 5.1 capable AV receiver.  They just don't feel the need for the onerous speaker installation or stands.  You're overestimating the % of homes with a real 5.1 setup.

[versapak]

5.1 digital surround is very much a standard in homes today

Hellllllll no.  Most people I know don't have 5.1 setups, even if they have a 5.1 capable AV receiver.  They just don't feel the need for the onerous speaker installation or stands.  You're overestimating the % of homes with a real 5.1 setup.

...and most people I know DO have 5.1 one setups.


I just know better people.


Aside from how many people whoever anyone knows, and yes, of course the number of people without is smaller than those with, 5.1 one very much is a standard.

It is now the standard in gaming. It is the standard in home movies (hollywood films on DVD, not lil Timmy's birthday party). It is a pretty big part of HD broadcasting (heck it is also found in plenty of non hd broadcasting).

It IS a standard, and it is where all stuff is heading.


What I don't understand though...

Why the heck would you be against it?

Seriously. I have already said that I love playing on the system. I have been having a great time playing it.

There is area where it could be substantially better. Digital surround sound is one of those areas, and it is one that would not have added all that much to the cost of the system. Hell, MS is even making money on the 360's now, so I guarantee Nintendo could have easily added some freakin DD.

It is not like I expect Nintendo to say... Oooooops. We are sorry Versapak. We made a mistake, and are going to include digital surround just for you.

No, but I am still going to voice my disappointment that it isn't there. If no one ever called for improvement of something, then we would all still be playing pong.

[lcddream]

i think things like hd and 5.1 sound drive up the price of the console.

nintendo was in the game for something priced very competitively.

they most definitely suceeded.

[ChadTower]

Yes, it's so standard in gaming that consoles are still being introduced without it. 

[versapak]

Yes, it's so standard in gaming that consoles are still being introduced without it. 

Now you are deliberately trying to come off like a moron. Whatever.

There are still black & white TV's for sale. That stupid color crap will NEVER take off.



The gaming experience is nothing but helped by digital surround. <=PERIOD

No, it is not required. Yes, it is a widely adopted standard.

[AlanS17]

I finally figured out why the Wii doesn't have Dolby Digital surround sound. They don't want people knocking their surround sound speakers off their stands and wall mounts while wildly swinging the controller. Yes, that must be it...

I think 5.1 could have been implemented in the Wii for pretty cheap, though. I think it would have gone a long way to make up for the lack of HD, too.

By the way, they don't even make "home theaters in a box" without at least 5.1 audio anymore. You simply can't find one. They don't exist - not even in the $200 ones. Most receivers sold today aren't stereo receivers, either. They're A/V receivers, and they have Dolby Digital audio.

The only way you're gonna be using 2-speaker stereo sound is if you buy a stereo receiver with seperate speakers or if you have the same setup from before you bought a DVD player... or if you don't have any external receiver at all and just rely on your TV's speakers. I was really late on the ball, but even I have it now.

I think it's safe to say that 5.1 audio is a standard for home theater setups. If you don't have a home theater setup, then you wouldn't really have a need for surround sound.

[odysseyroc]

In the 5.1 games, are the parts of the game that you play in 5.1 or is it just the cut scenes?

[AlanS17]

In the 5.1 games, are the parts of the game that you play in 5.1 or is it just the cut scenes?

In the games, themselves.

[versapak]

In the 5.1 games, are the parts of the game that you play in 5.1 or is it just the cut scenes?

The entire games are in 5.1.

You can hear whether an enemy is coming from behind you on the left or in front of you on the right (this is something that gives a definite advantage in online multiplayer).

While a character is talking you can spin around, and you will hear their voice rotate in the speakers relative to their position to your character in the game.

In racing games you can hear the cars coming up from behind you, or even better hear the sound of their engines fade into the distance behind you as you pass em.

It adds a great deal of dimension to gaming, and really helps to immerse you in the actual experience.

[ChadTower]

Yes, I disagree, thus I must be a moron.

That's intelligent.

This is the same type of commentary I was making when I said it would have been good to have an RJ45 jack on the thing.  That would actually be cheaper than 5.1, given that the thing already has the networking protocols in it and working, whereas it doesn't have 5.1 now nor do any of the games have code in them to support 5.1.

When I said that about RJ45 jacks, people here called me an idiot.

So, apparently, anyone commenting on the lack of a feature, or commenting on why it's not a big deal, is a moron.

[versapak]

Yes, I disagree, thus I must be a moron.

That's intelligent.

This is the same type of commentary I was making when I said it would have been good to have an RJ45 jack on the thing.  That would actually be cheaper than 5.1, given that the thing already has the networking protocols in it and working, whereas it doesn't have 5.1 now nor do any of the games have code in them to support 5.1.

When I said that about RJ45 jacks, people here called me an idiot.

So, apparently, anyone commenting on the lack of a feature, or commenting on why it's not a big deal, is a moron.

Digital surround seem like such a little thing to add cost wise to me, yet soemthing that really does add a serious amount of depth to gaming. If you disagree with that, then fine. I wouldn't call you a moron for that.

No.

Moron is somehow not thinking 5.1 one is a standard, and then using the fact that one console was released without it as proof of that. How could you even have been serious with that statement?

Color TV is most definitely the standard. Black & white TVs are still sold today.


I absolutely have NO clue where you are coming from. This thread was mainly pointing out...

 "Oh, the Wii doesn't have digital surround sound. That sucks."

You come in here talking as if wanting such a STANDARD feature of today (and most certainly into the future) is somehow wrong.

We don't expect that Nintendo is gonna somehow magically find this thread, and go

Oooooops. We are sorry Versapak. We made a mistake, and are going to include digital surround just for you.

I notice that it is not there. I notice that the audio on the wii is inferior to that of other consoles.

I fully understand that Nintendo wasn't going for home theater top dog, but I love my gaming experiences to be as immersive as possible. I usually have the lights low and the sound loud. I try to tune as much of the surrounding out, and bring the game to the sole attention of my senses.

I only breifly saw your posting on wanting an rj45 jack. I didn't comment on the subject at all, but I fully agree that there should have been one. It would have been fairly cheap to add, so would have digital surround sound.

[ChadTower]

5.1 requires software, both embedded (firmware) and in each and every game, that currently does not exist there.  Adding software costs a LOT more than adding hardware.  It's the cost of the software that drives up the cost of a console when you're talking about existing off the shelf components like would be required to support 5.1 on the console.  Adding 5.1 would have driven up the price of the console because of the development costs associated with the (new to Nintendo) required software involved.  It would drive up the cost of each and every game that supported it as well.

An RJ45 jack would have used the same TCP/IP and DHCP protocols that the wireless functionality already requires, giving almost zero additional software cost, making the only extra cost the actual RJ45 jack and associated controller chip.  That's probably only a couple of dollars per unit.

Actually, I don't think wanting 5.1 is wrong.  I do disagree that it is standard and also that the majority of homes support it AND are willing to support the hardware for another 5.1 device after their DVD player. 

[ClubNinja]

...and most people I know DO have 5.1 one setups.


I just know better people.

Don't be a turd.

I do not have a 5.1 setup.  I also have absolutely no need for it.  That same functionality is going to waste in my 360 that still outputs its sound through the stereo speakers in my television.  Some people don't care about these things - in fact, I bet most of the Wii's target audience doesn't care about 5.1.  It's hardly a standard and I'm thrilled I didn't have to pay for functionality that I'll never use.

Personally, I find the "no HD" and "no 5.1" comments against the Wii to be insane.  The machine is so obviously focused on gameplay and not on extra A/V flash that I just can't believe anyone is even close to hung up on.  If you want to play games with theater quality sound and HD visuals, then you have other options.  I fail to see any need for 5.1 surround and an HD picture when I'm bowling with blocky Mii characters.    

[versapak]

Surround sound is not something new to games. Developers have been including it for a looooooooong time now.

For 5 years it has been a standard of console gaming (yes, primarily on Xbox, but it was most definitely the standard there). Whether people used it or not, the developers had it in there, and it has been around even longer on the PC.

It would have added very little to the cost of the console. I never said it would add nothing.

No, it may not be as little as an rj45 jack, but hey... RJ45 is even less of a standard in homes than 5.1.

I know far more people with surround sound than with home networks.


What the heck are you talking about another 5.1 device after their DVD player? If someone already has 5.1 one for their DVD player, then they already have the hardware. There is no "another" required.

Also... I think we seem to have different understandings of the word standard.

To say that 5.1 is not a standard is baffling to me.

Digital surround is now the standard in game development. More games this generation will have the ability than don't. Because you or someone else doesn't utilize that feature, doesn't mean it is not a standard part of the game.

DVD's are the standard movie format now. Digital surround is the standard for them. It doesn't mean you have to use it, but a vast majority have it one as opposed to not.

[versapak]

Don't be a turd.

Yes, since clearly that was a serious statement. Quite obvious by the fact that those emoticons are posted right there with it.

Against the Wii?

Try reading what I have posted.

I am simply disappointed that such a standard feature was not included. I chalk up digital surround sound with the likes of 480p & 16x9.

It is just the basics in supporting today into the future.

Surround sound is all about immersion. It adds depth to the experience. If I am bowling with my ugly lil Mii, it'd be nice to hear the ball rolling into the distance in front of me crashing those pins, while the cheers, for that strike I just got, are coming from all the other Miis that are clearly lined up behind Mii.


Digital surround is a standard = Fact.


Whether you use it or not.


I simply wish the Wii had it, because I find it adds a great deal to the gaming experience. I have already stated that I find it to be akin to color over black & white, and it is missed.

[ChadTower]

Surround sound is not something new to games. Developers have been including it for a looooooooong time now.

Every game has to have its sound encoded for 5.1.  Every game has to have its sound designed to be used in 5.1.  Every game has to have its gameplay accounting for the existance of 5 discrete channels rather than 2.  Those are all additional costs that exist for every single game that uses 5.1.  Those are not reusable components.

No, it may not be as little as an rj45 jack, but hey... RJ45 is even less of a standard in homes than 5.1.

RJ45 is the standard for computer networking.  If they have a network in their home, they have RJ45 somewhere.  It may not be available easily from the spot where they put their Wii but those people would be using the Wireless, the RJ45, or not using networking at all.  But nearly every single person who uses a computer network in their home, at some point in that chain, uses RJ45. 

I know far more people with surround sound than with home networks.

Well, if they don't have a network, they aren't on the internet.  Be it a single node LAN attached to the outer WAN or something larger, they have a network.  And if they don't have a broadband style connection (which specifically requires network hardware) then they're not putting their Wii on the the net anyway.

What the heck are you talking about another 5.1 device after their DVD player? If someone already has 5.1 one for their DVD player, then they already have the hardware. There is no "another" required.

Many, many, many consumer level AV receivers only support one digital audio input.  It is only recently that the lowest level started having multiple digital (either coax or optical) audio inputs.  Only have one input?  Gotta buy another AV receiver or a switchbox to support more than one digital audio device.

Also... I think we seem to have different understandings of the word standard.

DVD's are the standard movie format now. Digital surround is the standard for them.

There are millions of households with DVD players using plain old red/white/yellow composite signals.

To me, standard means either the default condition or so commonplace that it can be expected in the vast majority of homes.  Standard would be a 24" or larger television.  A base consumer level DVD player.  Using a remote control.  Cable/satellite TV.  Things you would expect to find in the home of a 20 year old, a 40 year old, or a 60 year old. 

When designing a mass market consumer technology you have to keep those things in mind.  What is the standard of your target audience?  Seeing as how Nintendo aimed at as many people as possible while still keeping the price at an absolute minimum, luxuries like 5.1 and HDTV simply weren't within the demographic parameters they were targeting.

They even said that.  They came right out and said that if you require 5.1 or 1080i then the Wii isn't the console for you.

[ChadTower]

BTW, I guess I should note, I do have a good 5.1 (7.1 if I wanted to run the wiring for a couple more speakers) setup in my living room.

I should also note that I almost never use anything in 5.1.  The closest I come is that I use simulated 5 speaker surround for regular TV.  Can't remember the last time I had the chance to sit and watch a DVD, was probably many months ago.  Even then, when I have the chance, it has to be something that the kids can hear from their rooms (since it would be while they're in bed) because our house is that small.

So, really, I am one of those people with a full permanently installed surround setup with good hardware.  I almost wish I hadn't bothered, though, like ClubNinja, as when you have small kids and a small house it's of very little use.

[ClubNinja]

Don't be a turd.

Yes, since clearly that was a serious statement. Quite obvious by the fact that those emoticons are posted right there with it.

Right.  Since the use of "turd" is so traditionally meant seriously.

Instead of the word "against", would "related to" or "regarding" sound better to you?

I'm unsure of your living situation, but as Chad noted, 5.1 is basically useless in modest home with children.  It's wonderful that you can lower the lights and crank up the volume when you're playing.  When I play, the volume is turned down to a barely audible level as not to wake the sleeping toddler upstairs. 

[ChadTower]

Yep, anything like a horror movie, or might have sex scenes, or too much violence for the kids, I have to watch with headphones.  I don't bother all that often.  It's just part of decent parenting, not giving the kids nightmares from trying to sleep with horror movies playing at the bottom of the stairs.

[versapak]

For the love of all that is holy...

This sure has turned into a prime example of the special olympics on the internet.




You don't even have a freakin Wii, so I am not sure why I am even bothering. Clearly, like many on these boards, I am just a sucker for continuing conflict to kill the time.


That awesome new controller really helps to put you into the game. It is great.

I love playing Zelda with it because it actually helps to put you into the game much more so than simply hitting A.

The inclusion of something BASIC like digital surround would have helped that same immersion even more.

Including digital surround in games is now the standard. It is not some huge out of the ordinary task for game developers to all of the sudden have to do. I am no programmer, but I am fairly certain it is nowhere near as complicated as you make it out to be. There is a standard and reusable components. On Xbox, 360 & PC it is direct-x. I dunno what system PS3 will be using, but I am sure it will be a standard part of the development tools.

I love the Wii. I actually own one. I have owned it since the day it launched.

My ONLY gripe about it is the fact that it doesn't have digital surround. I think it adds greatly to the experience. In this day and age it would NOT have been some huge additional cost to the system.

Hell, the PS2 was able to have on the fly DTS 5.1 surround sound, all done through software. The Wii is supposedly twice as powerful as the GC, which was itself plenty more powerful than the PS2.

All they would have had to do was given a digital audio port. Something even my CD player has.

[ChadTower]

ClubNinja does in fact have a Wii.

It's not the programming that is the difficult part.  It is the additional game design required.  You are dramatically underestimaing the effort required to put 5.1 into a game in any useful manner and arguing it with a software architect.

Sure, you can slap some reusable surround simulating components into a game.  That doesn't add anything to the gameplay, though, especially in the manner you yourself have descibed in immersive terms.

[versapak]

ClubNinja does in fact have a Wii.

It's not the programming that is the difficult part.  It is the additional game design required.  You are dramatically underestimaing the effort required to put 5.1 into a game in any useful manner and arguing it with a software architect.

Sure, you can slap some reusable surround simulating components into a game.  That doesn't add anything to the gameplay, though, especially in the manner you yourself have descibed in immersive terms.

Yes, I know ClubNinja does, though he doesn't even have surround sound, so he couldn't possibly know what he was missing anyway.



Regardless of its "difficulty".

Developers have been doing it FOR YEARS.

It is not some new surprise that would have sent them all back to the drawing board, and it is not like, had the Wii included it, that it would somehow be breaking new ground. It would simply be walking onto the current ground.

Back on the Atari 2600 developers didn't have to worry about sprites, polygons, 2 channel sound, etc...

Times change. Developers now deal with all kinds of stuff as part of the norm. Digital surround is one of those things. Whether you used the surround sound of your Xbox or not, doesn't mean that most of those games weren't programmed for it. Like a color TV show on a black & white television (yes, I am stuck there) may look black & white, but it is actually filmed in color.

[ClubNinja]

Yes, I know ClubNinja does, though he doesn't even have surround sound, so he couldn't possibly know what he was missing anyway.

Apparently not that much if the Wii doesn't support it

[versapak]

Right.  Since the use of "turd" is so traditionally meant seriously.

Instead of the word "against", would "related to" or "regarding" sound better to you?

I'm unsure of your living situation, but as Chad noted, 5.1 is basically useless in modest home with children.  It's wonderful that you can lower the lights and crank up the volume when you're playing.  When I play, the volume is turned down to a barely audible level as not to wake the sleeping toddler upstairs. 

You don't need to tell me about homes with children. I am no youngster or in a swinging bachelor pad. I am the father of 3, with number 4 coming in February. (8, 7, & 3 years old)


I am not quite sure what children have to do with surround sound, but yeah....

Toddler? Been there done that.

[versapak]

Apparently not that much if the Wii doesn't support it

Nope, you're missing a great deal. Just like me. You just don't know it.

[ChadTower]

Back on the 2600 a single developer designed, wrote, and tested an entire game in a couple of weeks.  One person - two weeks.  Want go to back to that now?

Yes, many Xbox games were designed for 5.1.  And on average they cost more to make and buy because of it, for a feature that not everyone can use.

That is not, nor has it ever been, Nintendo's business model.

It would, in fact, send them back to the drawing board to add a requirement that was not there before.  And adding 5.1 to a system that did not have it before is exactly that.  Ever wonder why so few of the cross platform games were released for the Gamecube?

Just because ClubNinja chose not to buy and implement a 5.1 setup does not mean he has never experienced one and doesn't carry a full comprehension of what the difference would be if he did have one.

Anyway, your opinion is now out there as is mine.  You think it wouldn't add much cost, I think (with many years of software design experience) it would.

I'll bow out of the debate now with the suggestion that in the future you don't try and bolster your point of view by insulting people simply because they disagree with you.

[versapak]

It was actually not meant to insult you at all.

Honestly the statement that 5.1 wasn't a standard baffled me so much that I honestly thought you were stating it as a deliberately foolish comment.

It seemed to me no different than saying color tv is not a standard. There are still people with black & white tv's.


I figured it was just a quick deliberately moronic post to keep things going.

I now see that we clearly have a difference in what we were talking about when were saying standard.

I was talking about what is now supported as a standard, and you were talking about what the majority of people actually use.

Most entertainment devices of all kinds these days support digital surround. It is a standard feature.

True, the majority of people on this here earth do not utilize it.



I apologize for misunderstanding your statement, and insulting you. It was not my intention. I have said many a stupid thing deliberately just to keep heat going, and figured it was the same. It has been a while since I was in EE, but I guess once there it sticks with you forever.





[EDIT]

You keep commenting about how it would hugely effect the development process. It is already a standard part of the development process today though. Just like it is standard process to have surround sound in movies. As you say, it is not utilized by the majority of people out there, but it is still the standard. If Blue-ray and HD-DVD had come out, and they only supported 2 channel sound they would be hysterically laughed at.

Game developers already support digital surround as the norm. Yes, I am sure it costs em some manpower/$$$, but so does every single thing in the game. That doesn't mean they are going to go back in time and start making 2600 style games again.

Anyway...

The only thing I ever meant to convey, since the very first post in this thread...

Wii doesn't have digital surround sound. I wish it did.

[ChadTower]

You keep commenting about how it would hugely effect the development process. It is already a standard part of the development process today though.

It is not.  As a software developer/architect for more than a full decade, I fully promise you it is not. 

Step 1 in the software development process:  gather the requirements.

When developing for a console that does not support 5.1, 5.1 is not a requirement, thus it is not "standard" in any way.

Further, it would have a much larger effect on the design process, which is where you decide where to use it and how to use it.  Just tossing it in without reasonable design effort into using it during gameplay would be bad design resulting in a bad game.

Software development is a lot more than chunking lines of code and seeing what happens.

[versapak]

You keep commenting about how it would hugely effect the development process. It is already a standard part of the development process today though.

It is not.  As a software developer/architect for more than a full decade, I fully promise you it is not. 

Step 1 in the software development process:  gather the requirements.

When developing for a console that does not support 5.1, 5.1 is not a requirement, thus it is not "standard" in any way.

Further, it would have a much larger effect on the design process, which is where you decide where to use it and how to use it.  Just tossing it in without reasonable design effort into using it during gameplay would be bad design resulting in a bad game.

Software development is a lot more than chunking lines of code and seeing what happens.

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of developing a game. Yes, 5.1 development is not a standard for a console that does not support it.

My only point was that the Wii is the only console not supporting it. It has been a part of PC programming for years. It has been a part of Xbox gaming for years. There were even PS2 games that had real time DTS surround sound, and now it is a standard part of PS3 and 360 development.

I don't know how much work actually goes into that aspect of game development. I am not so sure you do either. You being a software architect certainly seems to give you far more credibility on the subject than I would have, but you seem to exaggerate it a bit.

Seriously... How expensive and difficult could it possibly be to implement?

It is very much a regular item in games. Of course not for the Wii, but are you telling me that those that are programming for the Wii are completely unfamiliar with ALL other gaming platforms?

I guess that very well could be the case. What do I know?

I just know that digital surround sound is even included in the little $10 Live Arcade title I just purchased. I'd be fairly certain we aren't talking a massive dev team for that one.

I don't think it is a matter of programmers having to say this item is over here, so now the sound has to come from over here. There is just no way that would be a standard part of gaming development, yet surround sound is a standard on several platforms. I imagine it is more a matter of defining the center point of all sound, and then having all other sound calculated automatically based on that. Otherwise how could they ever program all the sound variables that are part of real time gaming?

[ChadTower]

Seriously... How expensive and difficult could it possibly be to implement?

Subject matter experts, such as senior game designers and programmers, make a  lot of money.  Things that take up their time, like thoughtfully integrating 5.1 sound into gameplay, costs more than most people would think.  Think in the range of $125-150 PER HOUR PER PERSON.

That is factoring in their actual salary divided by their hours, the per diem cost of their corporate benefits, the upkeep of their development environment, the upkeep of their physical environment, and various other costs related to corporate business.  These things cost money.

This is why the games that use such features are always either short independent games (with people working insane hours for the same pay for companies that put their whole stash on one or two games) or huge budget we expect to sell 5 million copy games.

EDIT:  I should say, games that use such features well.