A highschool junior seeking career advice, mostly computer related.

[JonnyBoy]

Hey guys,

I'm a highschool junior, soon to be a senior, and like all highschool students, I need to finally start making decisions about my post-highschool life. Just a bit of background, my GPA is currently around 3.92, I consider myself a bit of a geek. I do enjoy English, but it's certainly not my strongpoint, I manage to get A's, though. Math is by far my weak point, I get consistent B's, sometimes I even struggle to get that. I am in a few industrial art courses (wood, CAD) and many art courses (2D design, human figure, drawing and painting), next year I am taking C++ and psychology.

There have been a few things I've been considering for the past few months. Firstly, I was looking at product design. My brother is an industrial design major and he went to RIT. He currently has his own business and is doing pretty well for himself. I share his interest in designing various products, solving design problems and making things both useful and pleasing to the eye. An added bonus is I could work with my brother after college, because he'll have a fairly well established business. Can anybody reccommend a school for this? I did get a chance to visit the University of Cincinnati, and supposedly their program is very good. Any idea of the job prospects? Any other general information?

The other things I am interested in are mostly computer related. Firstly, computer science. As mentioned above, I am an average math student. I didn't take Calculus yet, but I took trig. I do have a fairly deep appreciation for computers and software, and would really like to know more about them. I worry I lack the math skills to struggle through college. I am also worried that the job prospects won't be great. I don't want to have a job checking code for banking software, I want to flex my creative muscle. I know a lot of people in this forum have experience with programming and computer science, and I am just looking for some opinions on the field and it's outlook. Also, any reccommended schools?

Lastly, I was also interested in computer animation. I've done some low level modeling using Blender (because it's the best free solution I've found). I am fairly artistic, and I like the aspect that animation requires a lot of creativity. I will just reiterate my previous questions. School reccommendations? Job outlook? General view on the industry?

I know that the final decision is down to what I feel suits me, personally. I just would like some various opinions from people with experience, like yourselves.

Any information given is extremely appreciated.

Thanks guys,

Jon

[JonnyBoy]

Oh yeah, and I almost forgot to mention. Professional AssHat is not an option.

[DrewKaree]

Oh yeah, and I almost forgot to mention. Professional AssHat is not an option.

Life Lesson #1:

Setting your standards low to begin with makes them easier to achieve.

Professional Asshat is quite the noble profession.  Join the ranks!

[JonnyBoy]

Okay okay, I'm open to asshat oriented comments. 

[jbox]

An added bonus is I could work with my brother after college, because he'll have a fairly well established business.

I can't wait for the thread-resurrection three years from now where you tell us all what a dick your brother is now he is your boss. 

Poor Math + Love of Art = stay away from core Comp Sci, but I think you've figured that one out already I'd say. If I was you I'd be casting a nice wide net, since in Oz there are probably more non-Uni courses on the computer + art trades.

[JonnyBoy]

An added bonus is I could work with my brother after college, because he'll have a fairly well established business.

I can't wait for the thread-resurrection three years from now where you tell us all what a dick your brother is now he is your boss. 

Poor Math + Love of Art = stay away from core Comp Sci, but I think you've figured that one out already I'd say. If I was you I'd be casting a nice wide net, since in Oz there are probably more non-Uni courses on the computer + art trades.

Well, I could have told you my brother's a dick...

Nah, we get along pretty well, it was moreso daydreaming than anything.

[AtomSmasher]

Since I have a degree in Comp Sci, its the only thing your talking about that I can give some advice in.  As stated earlier, if your math isn't too strong, then stay far away from Comp Sci.  It requires a ton of math, in fact all I needed was 2 more math classes over the required comp sci classes to get a minor in math.  As for job prospects after graduation with a comp sci degree, you should either start looking for an internship in a small company ASAP or get ready to be a grunt programmer in a huge company (lockheed for me and some of my friends) doing boring, tedious work.  I ended up quiting programming altogether and am now a Real Estate Appraiser, which means my degree looks nice decorating my wall (although I do make more money then any of my friends now  ).  I am glad I went to college because I learned more then I imagined I would, but in the end the degree didn't help me career wise.  I'm sure I'm making things sound much worse then they actually were, but from what you've said I would recommend staying away from Comp. Sci.

In short, if you don't love math, don't do computer science.

[sirwoogie]

I have a B.S. and M.S. in computer science as well. I agree with the earlier assessments that if you don't like math or have difficulty there, CompSci may not be for you. It really all depends on the Uni you go to as well as how they structure the curriculum. You may want to do something completely different. I knew many majors at my school where they were computer geeks better than I, and they were psych or art majors. I originally started my college life as an Electrical Engineer, but the chemistry and physics classes canned that quickly.

For me, the system administration, infrastructure design, and programming aspects is what keeps me going. That's my primary job at Ford Motor. Prior to that I was the primary UNIX sys admin for my Uni.

  Don't get to worked up about it yet. High School guidance counselors always get ending Juniors and Seniors in a tizzy when it comes to your career path. If you have reasonable financial backing (your parents like you...) then switching majors isn't a bad thing. In fact, I encourage you to play the field. While it might be a little more expensive, you'll be more relieved to spend that money on something you enjoy. Or at least get a degree then do whatever job you want. Many computer careers start with having a degree from college... doesn't matter what subject that degree is in.

Good luck!!!

[JonnyBoy]

Thanks for the responses.

You confirmed my fear of Math and computer science, I knew the last thing I wanted to do was be a code monkey in the basement of a large company.

Again, I appreciate it. Anybody else have any career related advice?

[Dervacumen]

Many of the qualities you mention are similar to my own, except I always loved math.  I studied Economics and Computer Engineering, and you've already heard it's math all the way.  I think I took 8 calculus classes over three years.  Plus all the physics which is all math, too.  In the end, I found I "fit in" better with the economics crowd than the computer crowd, so I ended up with economics/minor in computing.  And now I run sales for a publishing company in the construction space (wha..?).

You're likely not going to figure out what you want to do until you get the wider exposure from college.  If I had to do it all over again, I would spend 2 years in a JC to get the pre-reqs out of the way, keeping my eye on taking classes that were transferable to many majors.  For example, instead of taking the basis calculus class, take the engineering calculus class.  Same with chemistry, physics, geology, English, whatever.  Take the classes that will transfer to the most majors, even if you think it's not worth while.  You don't want to have 2 years of lower level genreal ed science classes prevent you from going into astrophysics, right?

 
Geez, from the sounds of that lecture you'd think I had it all figured out now.

[Matthew Anderson]

First don't take it all quite so seriously you are like 16 right.....

Secondly, as a Computer Science guy who does not particularly like math let me tell you something. I never really use it on the job so slugging it out may be ok for you. I went to UC Santa Cruz got my BA in Computer and Information Sciences and had to take 2 quarters of Calculus and 1 quarter of Linear Algebra.

However....

To REALLY tell if computer science is for you take an Intro to Logic course at the Uni. Look under philosophy. Now, i hate Math, but I am VERY interested in Philosophy. Once I did that everything else made sense.

Oh and most people changes majors like 2 or 3 times. I was a politics major.. go figure.

[RayB]

Sounds like maybe you should go into 3D modelling and animation. From there, you can get jobs in film, television or game industry. You'd be especially valuable in the games industry if you keep up your technical knowledge (your grades seem to show you have the ability).

[Hoagie_one]

Get a lot of schooling and go to a lot of career fairs.  Someone will hire you for something.  I don't know anyone doing as a career what they went to school for.  Youjust have to go to school and have a good work ethic

[JonnyBoy]

Sounds like maybe you should go into 3D modelling and animation. From there, you can get jobs in film, television or game industry. You'd be especially valuable in the games industry if you keep up your technical knowledge (your grades seem to show you have the ability).

I agree, 3D modeling sort of includes the product design aspect too. I hear the video game industry is pretty cut-throat. Thanks for the replies everybody.

[TMS]

Take a look at Information Sciences or Information Systems, sometimes called Management Inforation Systems. It is a very broad degree that is more geared towards working with computers in a business environment. Also if you can look at colleges with a work study program like Northeastern in Boston. You get a lot more "industry" exposure and will have a much easier time deciding what path you want to pursue.

[JonnyBoy]

Is Information Sciences something like database management, etc.?

[SirPoonga]

Secondly, as a Computer Science guy who does not particularly like math let me tell you something. I never really use it on the job so slugging it out may be ok for you.

It really depends on what you want to do.  Currently I am not using my Math degree so much but I need experience right now.  I have a B.S. in Applied Math with a minor in Compuer Science.  I am currently a software engineer for a small company.

In a previous job I used my math skills quite abit.  I eventually want to get into simulation programming or statistics programming.

Graphics programming requires math.  Knowing dot products, the math behind how 3D gets translated to 2D on screen, etc... 

Anyway, from what you said it sounds like you want to look into some type of engineering or design related major that heavily involves computers. 

You might have to change majors.  Usually the first year of a major you don't get the total grasp of what want to do.  I was lucky, since 6th grade I knew I wanted to do some type of computer programming.  Being that math and science are my strong points that leads me to wanting to do simulation programming.

My sister, on the other hand, changed majors after her second year of college.  She started out as industrial design but once she hit some of the later classes she realized that isn't what she wanted to do.  It was close.  She switch to mechanical engineering.  So she still gets to design products but more from a technical point of view instead of an artistic point of view.

[Luxury]

The 3D world is VERY cutthroat.  But that isn't to say that it isn't impossible.  Just be warned that you will be turned down for jobs for years in all likelyhood unless you are really stellar.  You've got to continually work on your portfolio and just not give up hope.  And definately be ready for long hours.  And I do mean LONG hours.  Whether it be games or films, it doesn't matter.  I have many friends in both fields and its very common for them to work 80 hour weeks.  The tradeoff is that it is a very rewarding job (not monetarily though), and can be something that you really enjoy.  If you love the work, then the rest doesn't matter that much.  You will work with generally cool people, but most conversations will revolve around Star Wars - so be warned about that. 

If you are really interested, stick with blender for now until you at least graduate.  It's a great program for the price (hah!). 

[BobbyG66]

Get a lot of schooling and go to a lot of career fairs.  Someone will hire you for something.  I don't know anyone doing as a career what they went to school for.  Youjust have to go to school and have a good work ethic

Ya, ask anyone what they went to school for and look at the job they are doin'.
9 times out of 10 they are not related.

But still, go to school with what you have an interest in, you still need some kind of degree these days.

Also, internships or part time jobs are a great way of seeing how the real world works. Alot of people will hire you once you get a degree. You can also find out what that company and type of work is like.

Good luck

[electricd]

Is Information Sciences something like database management, etc.?

No, not really.  I am a Management Information Systems graduate from Indiana State U.  While there are 2 semesters in DB design and administration, the degree mainly focuses on business classes like finance, statistics, accounting, etc.  It has it specialty area (computers) but mainly uses them to gather and report information.  It is a very well-rounded business degree which can be contorted into many jobs.  I started as a software engineer for a small company (10-20 employees), but now am an IT Director for a mid-level company (think 100+ employees.)

[M3talhead]

Alright, I'll be the black sheep in the room...

I was in a similar situation 6 years ago. Ending H.S.. Decent grades. Hated math. Lived computers, but was unsure about college. After all, I was smart enough not to get a job flipping burgers, but wanted a way to make money and support myself before getting my degree without having a huge $100k debt following me for 15 years.

I ended up enlisting in the Air Force as a 3C0X1 (fancy lettering for Sys-Admin) and have enjoyed every minute. With all the politics and media right now calling us "those poor boys doing things against their will", I can honestly say I've had an absolute blast here. I've been all over Europe (mostly on vacation though) and soon will be heading out to the Pacific theatre and possible Australia and New Zealand. I move about every 2-3 years, but that's been my choice. Each assignment I received in the last 5 years was one I asked for. On the other hand, I know guys who've been at the same base for 10 years and just coasted through their job, taking college classes, and getting Uncle Sam to foot the bill (AF pays 100% of all off-duty college classes as long as you maintain a C).

All I'm saying is, don't look to  the movies and media for what the 'military' is. I'm not trying to recruit you either, I don't care for recruiters much myself, but once you get into the operational environment, you might take to it. As for me, with my clearance alone I can ask $20k more on top of whatever job I apply for when I get out. Employers love it. It shows you can be trusted and left alone to take care of an important project. I don't even have to know anything, just keep my clearance and most employers will find a position for me to fill.

Look, I'm 23, I have 5 years of experience managing network domains and supervising subordinates, a little college, free medical/dental plans, an insane paycheck, and 60 days of vacation a year. I make more now in my position than many people my age with degrees under their belts and if I were to get out right now, I'd beat out 90% of my competition because I have experience in my job. All I'm saying man, is don't dismiss the Air Force.

[JonnyBoy]

Wow guys, lots of great information here.

I'm still taking a hard look at Industrial Design. To me, it seems like a very good balance of art, computer work, and logic.

Computer programming was just a dream I've been romanticising, I was always interested in how computers do what they do, but I'm not sure if I would like to center my career around speaking to them. I appreciate all the information you guys presented on this particular career.

I have incredible respect for the military, but it's not something that I would personally like to do. I appreciate all the information though, M3talhead. It was something that was in the back of my mind for awhile but I think I may keep looking around at colleges before I consider it further.

Thanks guys.

If you have any more information, all responses are helpful.

[Nannuu]

DO NOT become a mechanical engineer.  I thought it was going to be designing cool stuff but in the 9 years I've been doing it I've not designed anything cool.  Granted I'm in the aerospace industry (which also sounded cool) so other jobs may differ some but not from what I've heard.  School sucks, lots of math, ALL GUYS.  I work with 98% guys and probably will until I die.  Engineers don't make nearly what they used to comparatively.  Unless of course you know that your brother will allow you to work for him I suppose it might be better.
Uh yeah, I love my job.

[SirPoonga]

DO NOT become a mechanical engineer.  I thought it was going to be designing cool stuff but in the 9 years I've been doing it I've not designed anything cool.  Granted I'm in the aerospace industry (which also sounded cool) so other jobs may differ some but not from what I've heard.  School sucks, lots of math, ALL GUYS.  I work with 98% guys and probably will until I die.  Engineers don't make nearly what they used to comparatively.  Unless of course you know that your brother will allow you to work for him I suppose it might be better.
Uh yeah, I love my job.

Heh, my sister is a mechanical engineer doing plastics.  She loves it.  Works for a medial company designing equipment.

Comp Sci wages are down too.  The starting salary now versus when I graduated is down about $10k.

[Luxury]

Don't think that the 3D world is any different.  It's a sausage fest.  Girls weren't meant to be artists.  No imagination. 

[Nannuu]

DO NOT become a mechanical engineer.  I thought it was going to be designing cool stuff but in the 9 years I've been doing it I've not designed anything cool.  Granted I'm in the aerospace industry (which also sounded cool) so other jobs may differ some but not from what I've heard.  School sucks, lots of math, ALL GUYS.  I work with 98% guys and probably will until I die.  Engineers don't make nearly what they used to comparatively.  Unless of course you know that your brother will allow you to work for him I suppose it might be better.
Uh yeah, I love my job.

Heh, my sister is a mechanical engineer doing plastics.  She loves it.  Works for a medial company designing equipment.

Comp Sci wages are down too.  The starting salary now versus when I graduated is down about $10k.

That's cause she's a chick.  I'd love my job if I got to work with a bunch of women staring at me all day.  I highly discrourage any job category that is 80% or more men.  I'd have to say it turns you into a creepy old man with much less social skill.  Or that could just be where I work?

[SirPoonga]

Or that could just be where I work?

It's you   I'm out having fun about half of the week.  Don't expect work to bring you a social life, it's work!