I need a little help proving that I did not destroy my laptop...UPDATED

[Vigo]

--------I Have an update to my case on the next page-------------

I need to find legitimate reasons as to why a laptop could burn out for reasons other than water damage.

I go to a university that forces us to rent laptops from them, and the laptop I got from them burnt out on me when typing a paper. Their policy is that if we didn't cause the problem, we won't be charged for any damage. The University sent my laptop to compaq to be fixed after the University technician inspected the laptop and declared it  "damaged from liquid spill" I got my replacement laptop a month and a half later, and they are charging me for damages even though no liquid touched the laptop.

After much debate I had with the head of the laptop program, she admitted: "there is no evidence of a liquid spill on your laptop, but it had to be a liquid spill because thats what students do to their laptops, and there is no other reason why a laptop could burn out".


She told me that she would drop the charges only if I could prove to her and her technician that It was not a liquid spill...(I'm basically doomed)

I can't prove anything since I don't have the original laptop, but I am hoping that if I put forth effort and fight her enough, I might have the charges dropped...

But I need some help, I was wondering if anyone could tell me where I can find a legitimate source that tells me why a laptop could burn out so I can use it as evidence and prove that It was not my fault. (It was the one armed man who did it) It will also be nice to have something to show to the dean in case she still says no...

Also, here is a picture of my laptop's burn out taken by the technician...maybe it will help.

thanks

[markb]

OMG, I would have had a field day.

1) Electrical components go 'bang!' all of the time regardless if they are wet or not. Why would you need a warranty if things never went wrong?

2) It is up to them to prove it was a liquid spill and not vice versa.

3) It is in the technicians interest to get you to pay by syaing it's your fault.

Stand your ground and refuse to pay unless they provide proof that it was your fault and remind them that compaq do make mistakes.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/02/28/compaq_batteries_could_still_blow/

Good Luck

[Vigo]

Yeah, The whole system is a joke. It took me a lot of debating to get her to admit that there was no evidence of a liquid spill.

The time when I went to see the head of the laptop program was pretty funny in retrospect. I wish I had a tape recorder.

More or less it went something like this:

Lady: So you say that you DIDN'T break your laptop? I personally went over this case, and the report stated that they found evidence of a major spill all over they internal components!

Me: I never let liquid get near it, it would be impossible for a liquid spill to get on my laptop.

Lady: Let me look call my technician...[calls technician] He says you broke it.

Me: do you still have the board? Can I see the evidence of a spill?

Lady: We sent the board to compaq, I bet if I called up compaq, they would say you broke it.

Me: I'm sorry, but this is ridiculious, you charged my on the day tuition is due, and say I have to pay this fee or I can't register for classes, and you say you have evidence that I spilled all over my laptop, but you cannot show me anything?

Lady: Oh no, we keep photo documentation of everything!

Me: Can I see the photo?

Lady: Um, no....I don't have it....my technician has it....

Me: well, you just talked to him...could you please call him up again so I can see this photo?

Lady: Um...sure [retrieves photo and loads it on her computer] See, Here is the computer part you broke...This proves it.

Me: Proves what? I don't see any of this evidence of a major liquid spill...No discoloration, no ring from liquid damage.

Lady: Um, let me call my technician...[calls technician, talkes about liquid spills and such, hangs up] Well, even theough there is no evidence of a liquid spill on your laptop, it had to be a liquid spill because thats what students do to their laptops, and there is no other reason why a laptop could burn out.

Me: There are plenty of other reasons why a laptop could burn out. Just look at that photo, there is a ribbon cable port is right next to burnt out component. I am guessing that the ribbon could have slipped out and the metal on the ribbon could have easily shorted out that component.

Lady: Thats impossible.

Me: No, Its not, it's basic electronics that things short out.

Lady: but there is no ribbon in that port!

Me: thats because they had to remove it...They took out the keyboard to see the inside of the computer...the ribbon that goes there is probably from the keyboard.

Lady: Well, I don't know anything about computers (obvious) If you want to not be charged, you will have to prove to both me and my technician that you did not spill on that laptop.

Me: how can I do that without the laptop?

Lady: I don't know. I have things to do, so I cannot talk to you anymore.

Me: Fine, But I will need that photo you showed me.

Lady: Oh, uh...ok.

Thats sort of an abbriged version of it...but you get the point...

[SteveJ34]

What's the Compaq model number for this unit?

I would research that specific model number as well as a myriad of other historical compaq service bulletins from other laptop models that might exist, consumer reported issues, etc etc.

I would print a big stack of paper of as much info I could find about historical problems with laptops.

I would return to the said persons office and DROP IT in her in tray as the results of your research.....with a little luck maybe it could be something close to a 500 count ream.

It could always include things that may not be specifically related to a "motherboard burnout".....the idea here is items to support your position that there are a multitude of electrical component failures that for whatever reason might prove to be faulty irregardless and completely seperate of liquid damage.

That shouldn't be too hard to prove from my perspective using Compaq's own website and Google to find the materials for you.

Hell, I'll even help do the research.....see opening question above.

Chit like this gets under my skin.....dealing with assinine people that give you some lame ass reasoning because of their own foundational stupidity.


Probably a service bulletin or two out there for reports such as:

# Compaq ze5000 series: First generation laptops prone to overheating issues

[Dartful Dodger]

It's probably a routine procedure they follow.  Next time you talk to the lady at the desk and she calls the "tech guy", ask for his name and ask how it's spelled, let her see you writing down his and her name and the date and time(letting her see you check your watch before writing the time is a good touch).  They'll drop it if they know you're serious, but if it's delaying your registration you should go straight to the dean, and file a formal complaint, be sure to have a list of names dates, times of the events, and the relevant facts.  This way you don't forget anything.

Good luck.

[GoPodular.com]

I wish I had a tape recorder.

I'd go back with one and revisit the topic.  Then bring it to the dean.

[Dartful Dodger]

I wish I had a tape recorder.

I'd go back with one and revisit the topic.  Then bring it to the dean.

Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!

[Vigo]

I have a compaq nc6230, and I am starting to collect whatever information I can get....I am starting to go to different sites and I will have a compilation of computer problem articles in no time....if anyone has any suggestions on where I can look, that would be great!

I might just throw in this article in the middle of the bunch just for fun

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11/22/man_burns_penis_with_laptop/

Found it when looking on the site markb gave to me

anyway, I'll keep compiling stuff, and when I see her next, I'll bring a tape recorder

[grantspain]

that my friend is a classic example of psu surge or componant failure,liquid spill does not cause that exact type of damage,liquid spill would leave residue around the componant similar to a battery leak

[xar256]

that my friend is a classic example of psu surge or componant failure,liquid spill does not cause that exact type of damage,liquid spill would leave residue around the componant similar to a battery leak

Agreed, power surge was my first impression when I saw the pic.  For liquid to do that sort of damage you can Guarantee that there would be some visible sign of it...Liquid spills that can do that kind of damage don't disappear! This is coming from someone trained to work on IBM Laptops, among other PC's.

Xar256

[Vigo]

Thanks, its good to have some real people investigate the damage rather than people who are paid to come up with excuses to charge students.

I am still having a hard time finding legitime sites that tell how this will happen...most sites I find are just surge protecter ads.

[SOAPboy]

Didnt read the whole thread.. but..

Water damage, causes corrosion (sp), and visible water damage on the PCB boards..

Its as simple as looking at it.. Without having it there, you cant prove it unless compaq proves it..

[tep0583]

I was trained to work on Thinkpads as well as other laptops, too.

I don't see any obvious liquid damage in the photo, but it isn't that good of a photo, either. Without being able to examine the actual unit in question, I couldn't give you more than a guess as to what went wrong. I can tell you I've never seen that sort of dsamage from a liquid spill. (And I've probably repaired and inspected at least hundreds of laptops)

I have seen defective componates gernade like that, though.

[woodygjw]

I don't see any water damage either.  I work with handheld electronics that are used in the field.  Water damage will usually look white and somewhat powdery.  It almost looks like some sort of power supply ic judging the coil next to it, and I have seen them fail for no reason at all...

woody

[DrewKaree]

Where's school?  I'm free tomorrow.  I could go with you and blather her to death and make her give in. 

The onus is on them to prove it to you, but you are forced to pay to continue going to school, and fight to get your money back.  I would raise holy hell, take note of every person's name, tell them you're going to record the conversation since they're telling you it's your responsibility to prove the case, give them reams of information pointing to problems that "just happen" regardless of "what students do", and generally make yourself a pain in her ass. 

Her telling you (or making it apparent that she's trying to brush you off) she doesn't have any more time to deal with this would lead me to sit in her office and make her life a living hell.

How are you to know if that's even a picture of YOUR laptop?  How is it that you can tell her reason after reason about why it COULDN'T be water damage, while all they keep telling you is that "well, that's what it's GOT to be, because that's what students do"?  Where are the parts you are being charged to replace?  Without the physical parts to inspect, they are unfairly charging you for something without leaving you any recourse other than to take their word for what happened.  If you're expected to take THEIR word for it, why isn't the same amount of "proof" being accepted by them on your part?

There's WAY too much stuff wrong with this for me to even be able to type the message you did.  I'd still either be in her office being a pain in the ass, or I'd be in the office of the next person in the superiority chain until I got someone who would guarantee me a fair hearing or solve the problem in my favor.  Fair being something other than "You said this, but they said that's what it has to be, so case closed because you're only a student". 

[ha-Y-n]

Yah, that doesn't look like a liquid short.  Do you remember a power surge before the burnout?

[deadkenndys1105]

My hobby other than this is fixing peoples computers and I can tell you that a liquid spill couldnt have dont anything like that unless it was a strong acid.  Unless you have a super battery leaking on your laptop thats not going to happen.  That was caused but the compont over heating and melting.  A large power surge could have done that also.  Way do they hire people for jobs like this if they dont even know the diffrence between the mouse and the keyboard or the diffrencts between a PS/2 port and a USB port.

[Vigo]

Yah, that doesn't look like a liquid short.  Do you remember a power surge before the burnout?

I don't remember any immediate power surges, but I know probably a week before it went out, there was a power surge in one of my classes and I had my laptop plugged in. (My batteries are horrible on my laptop...even with two batteries, I can't make it through a few classes).

There's WAY too much stuff wrong with this for me to even be able to type the message you did.

The most ridiculous part was that I was charged this all on the day tuition was due, and only by chance did I notice the charge because I can look up my balance online. They charge laptop fees with the tuition, and since I did not pay up on the one day time period thay gave me without notice, I have been blacklisted, and had to go through so many hurdles to register for my classes. After talking with about four offices, including the dean, they allowed me to register...but since I was so late, I couldn't get all the classes I wanted... There is no way I am going to pay after all the crap I went through...

[Dartful Dodger]

That sux.  But that's why they do it that way.  They know it's more of a pain for you to fight than to just give in.

If you would have paid it without reading the bill, it would have been almost impossible to get your money back.

Do they still want you to pay for it?  What did the dean say?

[Vigo]

That sux.  But that's why they do it that way.  They know it's more of a pain for you to fight than to just give in.

If you would have paid it without reading the bill, it would have been almost impossible to get your money back.

Do they still want you to pay for it?  What did the dean say?

OH yeah, they still want me to pay for it....and I didn't actually get to see the dean...The Dean was sick and out for the morning...I told the secretary what was going on, and she said she would relay the message to the dean and I should go back in the afternoon. When I went back to deans office, all I got was a note ripped out of the corner of a notebook saying I could register for my classes without any problems...unfortunatly I still was't able to register for my classes, and the dean never addressed my real problem on the notebook corner note...I had to go to the advisment center then back to the tuition payment office to get everything squared away...which is funny, because it is the first place I tried...
 

I can't wait until I get my evidence gathered and can slap it on the laptop program head's desk...and if that doesn't solve it, I'm going to the dean and getting more than a piece of scratch paper....and if that doesn't work...I'm seeing the chancellor...and if that doesn't work...I don't quite know...I have been recommended to tell my story to the school newspaper...they love to bash our laptop program (It isn't hard to do)

[Havok]

My company uses the Compaq\HP 6230 as it's standard desktop. They really are reliable units however, I have only seen problems with our older models. I would definitely add to the opinions that it was a power surge - however unlikely since laptops use a power brick to convert the voltage, and it is further filtered by a converter on the motherboard. However, if the power brick malfunctioned, it could conceivably send a surge on through to the motherboard.

I would stick to your guns and tell them you think it was a power surge. Ask them to PROVE it was a liquid spill - there are always telltale signs when this happens. Ask them for documentation.

Good luck!

[RayB]

WOW, that conversation you posted is ridiculous. They're talking to you like you're some dumb 14 year old!

A. They need proof.
B. Its a rental, so the previous user could have mishandled it.
C. Bad capacitors have plagued the computer industry for the last few years now.
D. Bad power connectors have been a problem for many laptops (the connectors looses from the board, and it causes electrical arcing which eventually fries components on the motherboard).
E. The need proof.

[thebrownshow]

When you first rented this thing, what kind of paperwork did you sign?  I'm sure there's a clause in there about damage, take a look and see if it says anything about having to prove that it's not your fault.  Could be there's a line in there that you can highlight and shove in her face.

You've gotta love people who have jobs like this, where they take that little bit of authority they have and get off on it.  What a ---smurfette---.

[Vigo]

There are two key clauses in my contract that say that I am screwed...

1) if they feel like charging me, even without a reason, they can...

2) they can change the contract whenever they please without even letting me know....

Under normal circumstances, only an idiot would agree to this contract...but since I could not enroll at the university without signing it...I was pretty much forced into it....I think that there are some laws that protect me against contracts like this...but I'm not about to get into some legal battle over a laptop charge...

I just knew that this laptop deal was going to kick me in the junk sooner or later...

[SithMaster]

if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.

[Q*Bert_OP]

Hey, ICs may blow, Transistirs can blow, and ICs are nothing more than a bunch of transistors, therefore an IC like that one may blow for no reason...

[DrewKaree]

if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.

"Dude, take this socket wrench and help me loosen the bolts on this row of seats.  I'll be removing the screws holding the chalkboard up.  I'ma show 'em.  I'ma show 'em real good!"

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Where's school?  I'm free tomorrow.  I could go with you and blather her to death and make her give in. 

Believe 'em, Vigo! He'll do it! I've seen him do it to countless people, right here on this very forum!   

 
mrC

[DrewKaree]

Where's school?  I'm free tomorrow.  I could go with you and blather her to death and make her give in. 

Believe 'em, Vigo! He'll do it! I've seen him do it to countless people, right here on this very forum!   

 
mrC

ey3 g0tZ MAd sK3e!z y0!

[Vigo]

if someone cheats you out of a significant amount of money take stuff from the school to even everything out.

Now we're talking about justice! 

I know a few mac labs with some G4s that don't get watched over....

[Vigo]

Where's school?  I'm free tomorrow.  I could go with you and blather her to death and make her give in. 

Believe 'em, Vigo! He'll do it! I've seen him do it to countless people, right here on this very forum!   

 
mrC

ey3 g0tZ MAd sK3e!z y0!

You know...its not that far of a trip for you, Drew...I go to University of Wisconsin - Stout.

That would be the easy route...just bringing in a pro...I think I can handle it for now...I'll let you know if I need some backup if all else fails...

I always appreciate the offer though! Maybe we can go steal some overhead projectors some time...

[USSEnterprise]

by any chance, did you try to overclock it or anything like that?Was it dropped, shaken, or had booked piled on top of it. I've ---fouled up beyond all recognition--- up a lot of laptops. However, the school should pay if it was the result of a power surge or a bad component

[Vigo]

I'm no overclocker....Althlough I've been tempted...but the laptops are of pretty good speed already. I am paranoid of damaging things...so anytime I have to carry my laptop and books...I keep them vertical in my bag and in a foam case...Never had more than just a couple pounds on my laptop. In honesty, I treated the schools laptops like royalty...I'm really thinking that it was either power surge damage or bad component like everybody is saying.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

In honesty, I treated the schools laptops like royalty...

Ain't that the shite?

I treat possessions the same way. I'm religious about taking care of things. I keep ALL my original boxes and packaging material and I store them in it if I'm not going to use them for a while. I also have all my electronics in padded cases and I'm neurotic about handling them.

And STILL, the shite breaks ALL THE TIME!   

You just know some blockhead frat-boy will use his college issued laptop to stabilize his beer bong, and then he'll return it in perfect condition. The world just isn't fair.   


mrC

[missioncontrol]

* missioncontrol snaps his fingers

I've got a great idea....

Why don't you pour a liquid all over the new one and take it in and say "see here's proof I didn't pour liquid on my laptop because if I had it would look like this." then point at new laptop....


problem solved

[SithMaster]

You cant trust anyone anymore.  You cant trust schools, big business, politicians, microsoft, the Mid East, me.

Can someone tell me how it is legal for them to not have to notify the person signing the contract that they have increased the cost.  Its ridiculous.  Thats how you know the school is top rated if they try and cheat you out of money aside from taking classes you dont need.

Maybe you can sue, win or get a settlement, and then go to a better school.

[thebrownshow]

You cant trust anyone anymore.  You cant trust schools, big business, politicians, microsoft, the Mid East, me.

Can someone tell me how it is legal for them to not have to notify the person signing the contract that they have increased the cost.  Its ridiculous.  Thats how you know the school is top rated if they try and cheat you out of money aside from taking classes you dont need.

Maybe you can sue, win or get a settlement, and then go to a better school.

A lawsuit over this?!

While this situation sucks, and Vigo, believe me, I really do empathize, but we're talking about college requirements here.  He wasn't FORCED into going to this school.  He wasn't FORCED into going to ANY school.  He's not being CHEATED out of money by the school, and if they require him to take classes he "doesn't need" then he can go to a school that doesn't believe in a liberal-arts education.

There are a million courses of action he could take that don't require the legal system.  He just needs to be a bigger pain in the ass than they are and see who gives in first.

[SithMaster]

O i wasnt being serious that was just me being stupid.  Its kinda hard to tell the difference.

[thebrownshow]

O i wasnt being serious that was just me being stupid.  Its kinda hard to tell the difference.

My bad.  I've been in the politics 'n religion forum too much lately

[Vigo]

You cant trust anyone anymore.  You cant trust schools, big business, politicians, microsoft, the Mid East, me.

Can someone tell me how it is legal for them to not have to notify the person signing the contract that they have increased the cost.  Its ridiculous.  Thats how you know the school is top rated if they try and cheat you out of money aside from taking classes you dont need.

Maybe you can sue, win or get a settlement, and then go to a better school.

A lawsuit over this?!

While this situation sucks, and Vigo, believe me, I really do empathize, but we're talking about college requirements here.  He wasn't FORCED into going to this school.  He wasn't FORCED into going to ANY school.  He's not being CHEATED out of money by the school, and if they require him to take classes he "doesn't need" then he can go to a school that doesn't believe in a liberal-arts education.

There are a million courses of action he could take that don't require the legal system.  He just needs to be a bigger pain in the ass than they are and see who gives in first.

Don't worry, I won't contribute in making America look any worse when it comes to lawsuit practices...too many people take dumb crap to court...and trust me, at my University, I've been through more dumb laptop crap than just this time....it's getting to be routine...