a very cool retro-styled concept car (",)

[AtomSmasher]

True, but then if you add a turbo to a GTO, get it up to 450 to 500 hp (500-550 hp for the '05 and '06 models)  and again its faster then the miata, plus you don't have the cramped interior of the miata.  Since I drive my car a lot for work, interior comfort was a huge selling point for me.

For the money MEANS for the money. Which means for the same outlay of cash for a STOCK GTO you can have a Miata with a turbo kit. Not to mention uprated brakes and suspension. You're talking at least $10k on top of the sticker to turbo a GTO. Properly anyway.

Ok, I see your point, but you could say the same thing for a lot of little/cheaper cars and the miata wouldn't be on the top of that list for me. Aren't they pretty much universally thought of as a chicks car?  I know they can be modified to be really fast, but its still a miata.

I'm not knocking your choice of car here. I'm simply saying that it is yet another case of GM coming close but missing on a car(styling wise). A GTO should not look like anything else out on the road. Currently,  the car looks like a Lumina/Monte Carlo. 

Actually if it looks more like the Chevy Cavalier then the Lumina/Monte Carlo, but I agree the stock GTO is a little bland.  The Monaro was actually styled and designed by Holden engineers in their free time because they just wanted to make a badass car, and they decided that it looks best the way it does.  I agree that I would have liked a more aggressive and unique design, but the design they chose still is good, just a bit bland.When I first saw the GTO I didn't think I would want it, but after sitting in it and driving it, I knew I was getting that car.

By the time they(GM) finally get the car right, they pull production because people aren't interested anymore(Fiero). They need to hire some Chrysler stylists. Hell, if it wasn't for a former Chrysler guy(Bob Lutz), the GTO wouldn't even be sold in America.

Agreed on the Bob Lutz statement.  And as for GM and style, the new Camaro (and supposedly soon to be announced GTO) has a pretty badass design.

Oh, I thought of one more thing. For under $40,000 i'll also take a Mitsu EVO or Subaru STI which will smoke a GTO.

Well no, they're actually pretty close to each other in speed.  If the GTO has drag radials on for traction, then they are pretty even and it just becomes a drivers race.  Although if we're talking 100% stock, tires and all, then yes they are faster mainly because they'll have traction.  The STI is a very nice car, but frankly I can't stand the looks of the EVO, pure rice.  Plus, again, the interior of the GTO is more comfortable then either of those (my mom had a Subaru STI so I knew them quite well)

[pointdablame]

I'd take the Goat over a Miata every day of the week, even at the higher cost.. just so I can keep my testicles.

[koolmoecraig]

I'd take the Goat over a Miata every day of the week, even at the higher cost.. just so I can keep my testicles.

Ugh. Can't anyone be comfortable enough in their manhood? You are basically saying that you would choose a car that your buddies would look at as a "man's car". Sounds a little gay to me.

The Miata has 50/50 weight distribution, Rear-Wheel drive, 4 wheel double wishbone suspension, and literally the finest manual gearbox in the industry. It has more SCCA victories than any car in production.

The only other car on the market(discounting hyper-exotics) with 50/50 weight distribution is the Viper. Who cares? Drive one and you'll see.

Saying it's a "chick car" is just an ignorant statement. If you REALLY know sports cars, you know how potent a Miata is in the right hands. If you dismiss it, you probably don't know much about cars in the first place.

Go have another Old Milwaukee and talk to yer buddies about dat badass El Camino parked on the side of your garage.

[pointdablame]

Ugh. Can't anyone be comfortable enough in their manhood? You are basically saying that you would choose a car that your buddies would look at as a "man's car". Sounds a little gay to me.

The Miata has 50/50 weight distribution, Rear-Wheel drive, 4 wheel double wishbone suspension, and literally the finest manual gearbox in the industry. It has more SCCA victories than any car in production.

The only other car on the market(discounting hyper-exotics) with 50/50 weight distribution is the Viper. Who cares? Drive one and you'll see.

Saying it's a "chick car" is just an ignorant statement. If you REALLY know sports cars, you know how potent a Miata is in the right hands. If you dismiss it, you probably don't know much about cars in the first place.

Go have another Old Milwaukee and talk to yer buddies about dat badass El Camino parked on the side of your garage.

1) it was a joke..

2) I said nothing about my buddies. I said I say it's a chick car.  It has insanely bland styling, and is so rounded it may as well come with a lipstick in place of the cig lighter ala The Simpsons.  No aggressiveness at all and just looks boring.  The GTO is not stunner itself, but at least it looks manly IMO.

3)Weight distribution is a huge point, but you're bringing up SCCA and the like... you can alter WD easily in a race car... it's done all the time.  Plus, you need to check you facts.  The new Solstice GXP is 50/50, and that's just off the top of my head.  Plus there are tons of nice cars that have near 50/50 distributions that can be tweaked to or very near to 50/50.... 350z, 240sx... you can go on forever.

4) I never said it wasn't a GOOD car, I said it was a chick car.  It has great handling and is quick, and I'm sure it's fun to drive.. however I'm sure it's fun to put your new purse in the trunk also and head off to get a perm.

5)The statement "potent in the right hands" is stupid as well.  You just described almost any sporty/sports/performance car on the planet.  A great driver can make a POS car look great on the road.  Put a good driver in a GTO or the like and it'll be potent too.. what's your point?

6)I don't drink Old Milwaukee, I'm not a redneck, I don't have a mullet, I don't have a bias against imports..... so nice try.  You failed miserably.. but you get an A for effort.

And yeah... I guess I really don't know much about cars... maybe one day I'll know as much as you.  Like how the Miata is the only other car with a 50/50 weight distribution... and the fact that weight distribution is the determining factor on what makes a sports car "good"   

[AtomSmasher]

Damn, he sure loves his miata.  Have you ever actually driven one?  The damn thing is so small, my knee was crushed between the steering wheel and door, definately not made for tall people.  Although I hear when you buy one, it comes with a free purse  

The Miata does have great balance and power to weight (similar to the new Solstice or Saturn Sky which you failed to mention). It is a fun little car. But it has taken on a very female persona and you do not see a lot of guys driving them. They have moved into the vespa/moped relm.  

And even if it was considered a mans car and even if I did actually fit in the car, I still would choose the GTO simply because I'm a fan of muscle cars.  I love that when your just idling the lope on the cam rocks the car back and forth a little bit.  I love being able to put a 15 foot patch of rubber on the ground even when launching from an idle.  And the sound of a small block v8 is one of the greatest sounds there is.

[koolmoecraig]

I did forget about the 350Z being 50/50, but that is the only other car. The Soltice is such a freakin' joke I didn't bother to mention it.(go read the review in Sports Car International, I don't care to go into it here) Another piece of GM engineering heaped on to the public for it's final engineering. You can go on forever? You mentioned 2, one of which is out of production.

Yes you can easily alter WD in a race car, but we're talking as they come from the factory. I mentioned the SCCA because it shows that the Miata is a top choice of people who actually race cars because it WINS.

What I meant to say is that it is much more impressive for some one to wring out the cababilites of a car like a Miata and show how high perfoming it really is.

Of course a V8 with 400hp is fast, but if a 170hp Miata can be made to lap a circuit within a hair of a big V8's time, it is WAY more impressive.

I believe Lotus did that with their formula racers that were whipping the crap out of heavy Ferraris and the like that had twice the horsepower. Light weight and balance. The old 550 spyder Porsches as well.

Who cares what it is considered? A cool car is a cool car. Why even mention that it is considered a "chick" car if that wouldn't deter you from buying it? And if it would deter you, why? Back to you not being comfortable with your manhood.

About the GTO you say "At least it looks manly" Oh thank God! I don't want no car dat don't look manly! I need to announce what a strong man I am. I'm going to put flowmasters on dat sombitch and REALLY show them how manly i am!

I would argue that weight distribution is top 3 in determining what makes a sports car "good".

[danny_galaga]

for me, its more about the uniqueness of the car. thats why the 'efijy' (aweful name) catches my eye. i had a long chat to a guy the other day who was driving a morgan 3 wheeler replica. very similar to this:



pictured is guzzi powered version, his was harley powered. i never would have thought either engine would look right in a replica because they are both quite small looking compared to the original J.A.P engines. also the originals were water cooled. but it looked great, the trick seems to have been to make the replpica a little lower than the original.i tell ya, heaps of people stopped to look and take photos of the little beast. how many people would even give a second look at ANY of the cars being debated above ?

this is the sort of car that interests me (",)

[pointdablame]

You can go on forever? You mentioned 2, one of which is out of production.

why does production matter?  It's not a good car anymore if it isn't made currently?  And by your logic, the Miata is better than the GTO since you can take the same cash for a GTO and build a crazy Miata... well you can do that for cheaper with an older car.  I just don't get your point here.  A "good" or "fun" car is good and fun regardless of age.

What I meant to say is that it is much more impressive for some one to wring out the cababilites of a car like a Miata and show how high perfoming it really is.

Of course a V8 with 400hp is fast, but if a 170hp Miata can be made to lap a circuit within a hair of a big V8's time, it is WAY more impressive.

I dont' get this either.  Why is it more impressive?  It's simple power to weight ratio.  You can have a 600hp GTO but the thing is still gonna be a hog.  You can add whatever you want to a Miata, and it'll still weight 12 pounds (that's an exaggeration, don't "correct" me on this on your next post... just want to let you know when sarcasm is used).  This is the simplest racing debate there is.  Large powerful car vs small nimble car.... how is one more impressive than the other? 

Who cares what it is considered? A cool car is a cool car. Why even mention that it is considered a "chick" car if that wouldn't deter you from buying it? And if it would deter you, why? Back to you not being comfortable with your manhood.

Who cares?  I CARE.  It's not my manhood, its not what my friends think.. its personal preference.  I never bashed the Miata like you seem to be doing to some cars in this thread.  I don't want to drive the car because I think it looks like a Barbie dream car.  I don't like the styling.  I don't like the look.  I don't like the sound.  It's also IMO too small to drive for anyone around the 6' mark.  Notice the liberal use of "I" in the last few sentences... its MY opinion.. that's why I care. 

I would argue that weight distribution is top 3 in determining what makes a sports car "good".

and I'd be inclined to agree.  However, you didn't imply that in your past posts.  But whatever, I'm done.  I'm all for a good debate on cars, but this is going nowhere.  Drive your Miata and enjoy it.  If you don't care what I think of it, then all is well.  Just as I don't care if you want to narrow-mindedly classify anyone with a V8 as a redneck.  I love cars, and can appreciate any nice vehicle.  The Miata however, has never caught my attention in the least.  I'm sure it wins SCCA races, I'm sure its a good car... but ya know what... at the end of the day, I wouldn't wanna sit in that thing and drive it home.  And that's what it comes down to.  If I don't WANT to drive the car I have, then why own it.

[koolmoecraig]

Fair enough.

[AtomSmasher]

Since the debate is dieing down, I'll just let it go and won't post my comments on your reply.  I just thought I'd add, the Saturn Sky isn't "out of production", last I heard its supposed to become available to buy within the next month or two (actually the release date I remember seeing was 03/20/2006, but I don't know if it was actually released yesterday).  I have no idea whether or not its a good car, but its pretty much the same car as the solstice so you could make your thoughts on it based on that, which you made clear you don't like.  I'm not a fan of roadsters so I don't keep myself very informed on them, mainly because I've never sat in a roadster that I actually fit comfortably in.