a very cool retro-styled concept car (",)

[danny_galaga]

at the brisbane motor show, this car by GMH. supposed to be based on their first car, the FJ Holden, but doesnt really look it to me. the only original part is maybe the horn button on the steering wheel! a damn fine piece of work, none-the-less

[DrewKaree]

That is one sweet ride!  The only problem is if it's made, they'll scrunch it down to econobox proportions instead of the stretched out mode it should be made in.  I'd look at buying one of those if it were made.

[Minwah]

Wow, that actually looks like someone put some thought into making the body look nice, which is unheard of nowadays.

[Stingray]

Concept cars always look cool before the corporate suits get a chance to lame them down for the production model.

-S

[GGKoul]

The steering wheel is on the wrong side... 

[AtomSmasher]

I think Holden is GM's best asset. They have a ton of great cars with original ideas, too bad they're Australia only.  Luckily GM is starting to take notice of them and bringing their models to America.  They started with the GTO which is actually a Holden Monaro, the new Camaro (and the soon to be announced new model of GTO) is a Holden design (fortunately they'll be making them here so they don't have to worry about import restrictions like they had with the GTO) and theres talk of them bringing over the Ute as an El Camino.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/conceptcar?modelid=20001

[Stingray]

The steering wheel is on the wrong side... 

Looks like the right side to me.

-S

[grantspain]

its got a big arse

[danny_galaga]

hehe. i like big arses (",). this is definitely not a car they will make. just an exercise for their designers. it looks cool to me because it reminds me a lot of zz tops (even the colour)- cadzilla. still my favourite car ever. its cool that holden will be doing utes in the US. it will certainly fit into the el camino mold i think.
about holden. most people outside of australia dont know much (or anything) about them. they actually predate GM, having started in the mid to late 19th century as an upholsterers. they progressed to car bodies and by the 20's were making bodies for imported cars like chev and buick. somewhere around that time they were bought by GM. wasnt until the 40's that they decided to have a go at their own car. i think it was called the 48-215, also known as fx. the fj came next and was a huge seller. that is the model this concept car is a hommage to.

[danny_galaga]

ha! i got the url linky thingo right first go! i didnt even check out anyone elses threads to see how its done. oh, and the arse really isnt THAT big, just the angle i took the photo from

[Stingray]

most people outside of australia dont know much (or anything) about them. they actually predate GM, having started in the mid to late 19th century as an upholsterers. they progressed to car bodies and by the 20's were making bodies for imported cars like chev and buick.

The same is true for a company called Fisher here in the states. They used to make almost all GM car bodies. Most older GM prodicts have a "Body By Fisher" plate inside the door. I don't believe they still put that plate on new cars, but I could be wrong.

-S

[Harry Potter]

I think Holden is GM's best asset.

Holden's are, for the most part crap (I may get a hiding from Bones for this  ). They only have one or two models which don't suck (both fuel and money for repairs).

I won't deny they're popular here but only because European cars are even more expensive to maintain here.

Then there's the Japanese cars which rock. 

[DrewKaree]

Then there's the Japanese cars which rock. 

Well, except for Toyota Corrolla's.  Those suck no matter what country you're in.

[Harry Potter]

Then there's the Japanese cars which rock. 

Well, except for Toyota Corrolla's.  Those suck no matter what country you're in.

Where's that Eff-You icon 

[Stingray]

Then there's the Japanese cars which rock. 

Well, except for Toyota Corrolla's.  Those suck no matter what country you're in.

Where's that Eff-You icon 

The autofilter would only turn it into a --smurf-- you icon.

-S

[pointdablame]

http://www.dieselstation.com/archive/Holden-EFIJY-Concept/

High res photos of the Efijy   It's one of my favorite new concept cars, although it's been around for a while now... its not brand new.

It's really stunning though, and very very detailed.  It however will never, ever, EVER see the light of day as a production vehicle.  Not even with major "laming" up by the higher ups.  It's strictly a show piece.

[DrewKaree]

Then there's the Japanese cars which rock. 

Well, except for Toyota Corrolla's.  Those suck no matter what country you're in.

Where's that Eff-You icon 

What?  What'd I say?   

[danny_galaga]

I think Holden is GM's best asset.

Holden's are, for the most part crap

don't you mean FORD  . a lot of holdens cars weren't very good in the 80's, but then nor were ANYONES cars... now the cars holden makes are realy good quality. i think they only make the commodore variants here now (sedan, stationwagon, ute, monaro and a panelvan). the rest are imported.

anyway, i can't imagine someone like honda making a ride this cool 

[Bones]

Very cool design but needs more Hemi.

[danny_galaga]

well seeing as how its from gmh that doesnt seem to likely...

[Bones]

Yeah you are right.... Needs more Windsor.

[danny_galaga]

Yeah you are right.... Needs more Windsor.

thems fightin words...

[Harry Potter]

I think Holden is GM's best asset.

Holden's are, for the most part crap

don't you mean FORD  . a lot of holdens cars weren't very good in the 80's, but then nor were ANYONES cars... now the cars holden makes are realy good quality. i think they only make the commodore variants here now (sedan, stationwagon, ute, monaro and a panelvan). the rest are imported.

anyway, i can't imagine someone like honda making a ride this cool 

Oh come on. I mean..... OH COME ON! 

[DrewKaree]

Toyota Corolla's still suck, right guys?   

[Harry Potter]

I'll send you a sharp piece of it to you in the mail.

[psik0tik]

I love the fat chick style old cars. Although I'm quite attached to my beetle I think I would actually buy one. And as far as Toyota Corrolla's go all I have to say is...I think Id rather ride a beach cruiser with cut off jean shorts on.

[danny_galaga]

welcome to the vw fold!  i have a type 3 and bones is a type 2 guy. your type 1 makes the trio  now we just need a type 4 owner to complete the set...

unless its a NEW beetle you have? then boo! hiss! to you 

[psik0tik]

welcome to the vw fold!  i have a type 3 and bones is a type 2 guy. your type 1 makes the trio  now we just need a type 4 owner to complete the set...

unless its a NEW beetle you have? then boo! hiss! to you 

NEVAAAA!!! 1969 with a 1915

[Bones]

I dig the new Beetles and as an added bonus they are always driven by pretty girls.

[danny_galaga]

I dig the new Beetles and as an added bonus they are always driven by pretty girls.

are you on crack? hehe. what is a distinct feature of a type 1, 2 or 3? they are air-cooled and rear-engined. new beetle is liquid-cooled front wheel drive just like every other car. how boring! at least the new mini is in keeping with what made IT famous...

[Harry Potter]

And as far as Toyota Corrolla's go all I have to say is...I think Id rather ride a beach cruiser with cut off jean shorts on.

I get the feeling you'd ride any bloke who wears cut off jeans.

[koolmoecraig]

I think Holden is GM's best asset. They have a ton of great cars with original ideas, too bad they're Australia only.  Luckily GM is starting to take notice of them and bringing their models to America.  They started with the GTO which is actually a Holden Monaro, the new Camaro (and the soon to be announced new model of GTO) is a Holden design (fortunately they'll be making them here so they don't have to worry about import restrictions like they had with the GTO) and theres talk of them bringing over the Ute as an El Camino.

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/conceptcar?modelid=20001

They can't give those GTO's away here. A friend of mine picked one up for close to $5000 UNDER STICKER!

Quick for sure, but GM has the worst stylists in the industry.

[Harry Potter]

Are we talking about the same 2005 (or 2004) Pontiac GTO?

The car is worth $50,000 AUS in Australia. How the hell can it be 1/5th of the price exported?

Unless it was a bandged up one or it was stolen.

[jbox]

A friend of mine picked one up for close to $5000 UNDER STICKER!

I took "under sticker" to mean he paid less than sticker price. But my understanding of car yards is that sticker price = sucker price. So the equivilant comment would mean he paid (say) less than ($50,000 - $5,000) for it instead. Is that right koolmoecraig?

[AtomSmasher]

He said $5000 under sticker, so thats around $28000 US.  I picked mine up for $6000 under sticker because the 2005 gto was coming out and it had a superior engine for the same msrp, so they had to put major discounts on the '04 models in order to move them.  And I'm sure your friend will disagree that the GTO has a bad style, the exterior is a little bland because its a sleeper, but the interior is by far the best interior of any sub $40000 sports car, and the exterior is easily made to look a bit more like a sports car by changing just a few things (as I did to mine).  Another problem was poor marketing (or lack of), did you ever see a GTO commercial?  If you did then you probably watch the Speed network as they rarely played commercials on any other channel.

I consider the GTO is by the best sub $40000 sports car currently on the market, partly because it has the most powerful and easily modifyable engine currently available (yes there is a 425 hp version of the charger now, but its msrp is over $40k and a ---smurfette--- to modify), partly because it has easily the highest quality and most comfortable interior, and partly because you don't see them on every corner (less then 40000 made in its 3 year production time).  Another nice thing about the GTO, when you see one you know its either fast or really fast, when you see a mustang or charger it's most likely the v6 versions.  And stock, its faster then the new mustang, new charger, magnum, 350z, g35, and every other currently available sub $40k muscle car.  Personally I've raced a 350z, magnum, and a new mustang, and I beat every one.

Next time you see your friend, ask him if he likes his car, I have no doubt that he will say he loves it.  Literally once a week, someone gives me a thumbs up or tells me how much they like my car.  I have a lot of stories I could tell about random, strange events of people telling me how much they like my car, but I think I've ranted long enough.

[koolmoecraig]

Oh he likes the car.

It wasn't purposely styled to be a sleeper. GM just didn't want to spend money on redesigning the car. They'd rather just tack on some fake air scoops and ground effects.

Also, I wouldn't exactly call it a sports car. Muscle Car, yes. Sports Car, no. Sports cars are all about light weight. At 3800lbs, it's fat.

For the money it's a good deal, but for my money i'll take a new Miata and add a 350hp turbo kit. With that power/weight ratio you'd smoke 95% of things on the road.

[AtomSmasher]

It wasn't purposely styled to be a sleeper. GM just didn't want to spend money on redesigning the car. They'd rather just tack on some fake air scoops and ground effects.

Uhh...you do realize its basically the same car as the holden monaro right?  The monaro was designed as a sleeper, it doesn't have hood scoops or even a spoiler.  The only real exterior changes between the monaro and the '04 GTO is the spoiler and a pontiac styled front bumper.  After the '04 GTO was released it got a lot of flak from pontiac fans because its didn't have hood scoops or split exhaust (it is dual exhaust, just not split to each side of the rear) which all the older GTOs had, so in '05 they changed that.  I wish more companies addressed public criticism so quickly.   Also, I'm not sure what ground effects your talking about that were tacked on since its the same as the monaro (and the monaro's been in production for many years before they started making the GTO), maybe you just have no idea what your talking about...ya thats probably it.

Also, I wouldn't exactly call it a sports car. Muscle Car, yes. Sports Car, no. Sports cars are all about light weight. At 3800lbs, it's fat.

True, its a muscle car, but I figured most people on an arcade board wouldn't know the difference between a muscle car, sports car, or pony car.  Especially since all magazines and most car review web sites don't have muscle car catagories and put the GTO in the sports car catagory.

For the money it's a good deal, but for my money i'll take a new Miata and add a 350hp turbo kit. With that power/weight ratio you'd smoke 95% of things on the road.

True, but then if you add a turbo to a GTO, get it up to 450 to 500 hp (500-550 hp for the '05 and '06 models)  and again its faster then the miata, plus you don't have the cramped interior of the miata.  Since I drive my car a lot for work, interior comfort was a huge selling point for me.

[danny_galaga]

                                                                                                  ^
                                                                                                   l
                                                                                                   l



ooh, its a sleeper alright! i hadnt even noticed you had one in your sig. good onya for buying aussie made 

 

[Harry Potter]

oh $5000 UNDER. Whoops.

Must learn to read posts properly 

[koolmoecraig]

True, but then if you add a turbo to a GTO, get it up to 450 to 500 hp (500-550 hp for the '05 and '06 models)  and again its faster then the miata, plus you don't have the cramped interior of the miata.  Since I drive my car a lot for work, interior comfort was a huge selling point for me.

For the money MEANS for the money. Which means for the same outlay of cash for a STOCK GTO you can have a Miata with a turbo kit. Not to mention uprated brakes and suspension. You're talking at least $10k on top of the sticker to turbo a GTO. Properly anyway.

I'm not knocking your choice of car here. I'm simply saying that it is yet another case of GM coming close but missing on a car(styling wise). A GTO should not look like anything else out on the road. Currently,  the car looks like a Lumina/Monte Carlo. 

By the time they(GM) finally get the car right, they pull production because people aren't interested anymore(Fiero). They need to hire some Chrysler stylists. Hell, if it wasn't for a former Chrysler guy(Bob Lutz), the GTO wouldn't even be sold in America.

Oh, I thought of one more thing. For under $40,000 i'll also take a Mitsu EVO or Subaru STI which will smoke a GTO.

[AtomSmasher]

True, but then if you add a turbo to a GTO, get it up to 450 to 500 hp (500-550 hp for the '05 and '06 models)  and again its faster then the miata, plus you don't have the cramped interior of the miata.  Since I drive my car a lot for work, interior comfort was a huge selling point for me.

For the money MEANS for the money. Which means for the same outlay of cash for a STOCK GTO you can have a Miata with a turbo kit. Not to mention uprated brakes and suspension. You're talking at least $10k on top of the sticker to turbo a GTO. Properly anyway.

Ok, I see your point, but you could say the same thing for a lot of little/cheaper cars and the miata wouldn't be on the top of that list for me. Aren't they pretty much universally thought of as a chicks car?  I know they can be modified to be really fast, but its still a miata.

I'm not knocking your choice of car here. I'm simply saying that it is yet another case of GM coming close but missing on a car(styling wise). A GTO should not look like anything else out on the road. Currently,  the car looks like a Lumina/Monte Carlo. 

Actually if it looks more like the Chevy Cavalier then the Lumina/Monte Carlo, but I agree the stock GTO is a little bland.  The Monaro was actually styled and designed by Holden engineers in their free time because they just wanted to make a badass car, and they decided that it looks best the way it does.  I agree that I would have liked a more aggressive and unique design, but the design they chose still is good, just a bit bland.When I first saw the GTO I didn't think I would want it, but after sitting in it and driving it, I knew I was getting that car.

By the time they(GM) finally get the car right, they pull production because people aren't interested anymore(Fiero). They need to hire some Chrysler stylists. Hell, if it wasn't for a former Chrysler guy(Bob Lutz), the GTO wouldn't even be sold in America.

Agreed on the Bob Lutz statement.  And as for GM and style, the new Camaro (and supposedly soon to be announced GTO) has a pretty badass design.

Oh, I thought of one more thing. For under $40,000 i'll also take a Mitsu EVO or Subaru STI which will smoke a GTO.

Well no, they're actually pretty close to each other in speed.  If the GTO has drag radials on for traction, then they are pretty even and it just becomes a drivers race.  Although if we're talking 100% stock, tires and all, then yes they are faster mainly because they'll have traction.  The STI is a very nice car, but frankly I can't stand the looks of the EVO, pure rice.  Plus, again, the interior of the GTO is more comfortable then either of those (my mom had a Subaru STI so I knew them quite well)

[pointdablame]

I'd take the Goat over a Miata every day of the week, even at the higher cost.. just so I can keep my testicles.

[koolmoecraig]

I'd take the Goat over a Miata every day of the week, even at the higher cost.. just so I can keep my testicles.

Ugh. Can't anyone be comfortable enough in their manhood? You are basically saying that you would choose a car that your buddies would look at as a "man's car". Sounds a little gay to me.

The Miata has 50/50 weight distribution, Rear-Wheel drive, 4 wheel double wishbone suspension, and literally the finest manual gearbox in the industry. It has more SCCA victories than any car in production.

The only other car on the market(discounting hyper-exotics) with 50/50 weight distribution is the Viper. Who cares? Drive one and you'll see.

Saying it's a "chick car" is just an ignorant statement. If you REALLY know sports cars, you know how potent a Miata is in the right hands. If you dismiss it, you probably don't know much about cars in the first place.

Go have another Old Milwaukee and talk to yer buddies about dat badass El Camino parked on the side of your garage.

[pointdablame]

Ugh. Can't anyone be comfortable enough in their manhood? You are basically saying that you would choose a car that your buddies would look at as a "man's car". Sounds a little gay to me.

The Miata has 50/50 weight distribution, Rear-Wheel drive, 4 wheel double wishbone suspension, and literally the finest manual gearbox in the industry. It has more SCCA victories than any car in production.

The only other car on the market(discounting hyper-exotics) with 50/50 weight distribution is the Viper. Who cares? Drive one and you'll see.

Saying it's a "chick car" is just an ignorant statement. If you REALLY know sports cars, you know how potent a Miata is in the right hands. If you dismiss it, you probably don't know much about cars in the first place.

Go have another Old Milwaukee and talk to yer buddies about dat badass El Camino parked on the side of your garage.

1) it was a joke..

2) I said nothing about my buddies. I said I say it's a chick car.  It has insanely bland styling, and is so rounded it may as well come with a lipstick in place of the cig lighter ala The Simpsons.  No aggressiveness at all and just looks boring.  The GTO is not stunner itself, but at least it looks manly IMO.

3)Weight distribution is a huge point, but you're bringing up SCCA and the like... you can alter WD easily in a race car... it's done all the time.  Plus, you need to check you facts.  The new Solstice GXP is 50/50, and that's just off the top of my head.  Plus there are tons of nice cars that have near 50/50 distributions that can be tweaked to or very near to 50/50.... 350z, 240sx... you can go on forever.

4) I never said it wasn't a GOOD car, I said it was a chick car.  It has great handling and is quick, and I'm sure it's fun to drive.. however I'm sure it's fun to put your new purse in the trunk also and head off to get a perm.

5)The statement "potent in the right hands" is stupid as well.  You just described almost any sporty/sports/performance car on the planet.  A great driver can make a POS car look great on the road.  Put a good driver in a GTO or the like and it'll be potent too.. what's your point?

6)I don't drink Old Milwaukee, I'm not a redneck, I don't have a mullet, I don't have a bias against imports..... so nice try.  You failed miserably.. but you get an A for effort.

And yeah... I guess I really don't know much about cars... maybe one day I'll know as much as you.  Like how the Miata is the only other car with a 50/50 weight distribution... and the fact that weight distribution is the determining factor on what makes a sports car "good"   

[AtomSmasher]

Damn, he sure loves his miata.  Have you ever actually driven one?  The damn thing is so small, my knee was crushed between the steering wheel and door, definately not made for tall people.  Although I hear when you buy one, it comes with a free purse  

The Miata does have great balance and power to weight (similar to the new Solstice or Saturn Sky which you failed to mention). It is a fun little car. But it has taken on a very female persona and you do not see a lot of guys driving them. They have moved into the vespa/moped relm.  

And even if it was considered a mans car and even if I did actually fit in the car, I still would choose the GTO simply because I'm a fan of muscle cars.  I love that when your just idling the lope on the cam rocks the car back and forth a little bit.  I love being able to put a 15 foot patch of rubber on the ground even when launching from an idle.  And the sound of a small block v8 is one of the greatest sounds there is.

[koolmoecraig]

I did forget about the 350Z being 50/50, but that is the only other car. The Soltice is such a freakin' joke I didn't bother to mention it.(go read the review in Sports Car International, I don't care to go into it here) Another piece of GM engineering heaped on to the public for it's final engineering. You can go on forever? You mentioned 2, one of which is out of production.

Yes you can easily alter WD in a race car, but we're talking as they come from the factory. I mentioned the SCCA because it shows that the Miata is a top choice of people who actually race cars because it WINS.

What I meant to say is that it is much more impressive for some one to wring out the cababilites of a car like a Miata and show how high perfoming it really is.

Of course a V8 with 400hp is fast, but if a 170hp Miata can be made to lap a circuit within a hair of a big V8's time, it is WAY more impressive.

I believe Lotus did that with their formula racers that were whipping the crap out of heavy Ferraris and the like that had twice the horsepower. Light weight and balance. The old 550 spyder Porsches as well.

Who cares what it is considered? A cool car is a cool car. Why even mention that it is considered a "chick" car if that wouldn't deter you from buying it? And if it would deter you, why? Back to you not being comfortable with your manhood.

About the GTO you say "At least it looks manly" Oh thank God! I don't want no car dat don't look manly! I need to announce what a strong man I am. I'm going to put flowmasters on dat sombitch and REALLY show them how manly i am!

I would argue that weight distribution is top 3 in determining what makes a sports car "good".

[danny_galaga]

for me, its more about the uniqueness of the car. thats why the 'efijy' (aweful name) catches my eye. i had a long chat to a guy the other day who was driving a morgan 3 wheeler replica. very similar to this:



pictured is guzzi powered version, his was harley powered. i never would have thought either engine would look right in a replica because they are both quite small looking compared to the original J.A.P engines. also the originals were water cooled. but it looked great, the trick seems to have been to make the replpica a little lower than the original.i tell ya, heaps of people stopped to look and take photos of the little beast. how many people would even give a second look at ANY of the cars being debated above ?

this is the sort of car that interests me (",)

[pointdablame]

You can go on forever? You mentioned 2, one of which is out of production.

why does production matter?  It's not a good car anymore if it isn't made currently?  And by your logic, the Miata is better than the GTO since you can take the same cash for a GTO and build a crazy Miata... well you can do that for cheaper with an older car.  I just don't get your point here.  A "good" or "fun" car is good and fun regardless of age.

What I meant to say is that it is much more impressive for some one to wring out the cababilites of a car like a Miata and show how high perfoming it really is.

Of course a V8 with 400hp is fast, but if a 170hp Miata can be made to lap a circuit within a hair of a big V8's time, it is WAY more impressive.

I dont' get this either.  Why is it more impressive?  It's simple power to weight ratio.  You can have a 600hp GTO but the thing is still gonna be a hog.  You can add whatever you want to a Miata, and it'll still weight 12 pounds (that's an exaggeration, don't "correct" me on this on your next post... just want to let you know when sarcasm is used).  This is the simplest racing debate there is.  Large powerful car vs small nimble car.... how is one more impressive than the other? 

Who cares what it is considered? A cool car is a cool car. Why even mention that it is considered a "chick" car if that wouldn't deter you from buying it? And if it would deter you, why? Back to you not being comfortable with your manhood.

Who cares?  I CARE.  It's not my manhood, its not what my friends think.. its personal preference.  I never bashed the Miata like you seem to be doing to some cars in this thread.  I don't want to drive the car because I think it looks like a Barbie dream car.  I don't like the styling.  I don't like the look.  I don't like the sound.  It's also IMO too small to drive for anyone around the 6' mark.  Notice the liberal use of "I" in the last few sentences... its MY opinion.. that's why I care. 

I would argue that weight distribution is top 3 in determining what makes a sports car "good".

and I'd be inclined to agree.  However, you didn't imply that in your past posts.  But whatever, I'm done.  I'm all for a good debate on cars, but this is going nowhere.  Drive your Miata and enjoy it.  If you don't care what I think of it, then all is well.  Just as I don't care if you want to narrow-mindedly classify anyone with a V8 as a redneck.  I love cars, and can appreciate any nice vehicle.  The Miata however, has never caught my attention in the least.  I'm sure it wins SCCA races, I'm sure its a good car... but ya know what... at the end of the day, I wouldn't wanna sit in that thing and drive it home.  And that's what it comes down to.  If I don't WANT to drive the car I have, then why own it.

[koolmoecraig]

Fair enough.

[AtomSmasher]

Since the debate is dieing down, I'll just let it go and won't post my comments on your reply.  I just thought I'd add, the Saturn Sky isn't "out of production", last I heard its supposed to become available to buy within the next month or two (actually the release date I remember seeing was 03/20/2006, but I don't know if it was actually released yesterday).  I have no idea whether or not its a good car, but its pretty much the same car as the solstice so you could make your thoughts on it based on that, which you made clear you don't like.  I'm not a fan of roadsters so I don't keep myself very informed on them, mainly because I've never sat in a roadster that I actually fit comfortably in.