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Author Topic: Olympic's new USA moron  (Read 5830 times)

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hypernova

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Olympic's new USA moron
« on: February 18, 2006, 12:47:03 pm »
I was watching a bit of the Olympics last night.  Yeah, it was tape delayed, but I hadn't caught the summary on the nightly news shows, so I decided to watch a bit of the snowboardcross competition.  (Honestly...they couldn't come up with a better title for that race???)
For those who haven't seen it, it's a 3000ish foot race down a hill with many turns.  Pretty neat, and potentially crazy stuff.  Seems that more often than not, all four riders don't make it to the bottom.  They usually bump into one another along the way, and one or two wipe out.  Bumping's legal, just not intentional pushing and whatnot.

Anyways, it was the women's comp.  The American, Lindsey Jacobellis, was in the finals.  The race started out great for her.  She managed to fight her way to the front of the pack, which is generally where you want to be, to be out of the jostling that can go on behind you, which causes crashes.  One rider caught some bad air five seconds into the race, and ended up being taken to the hospital, (where she was treated and released.)
Later, 3rd place made a mistake, and went flying to the side of the course, through the wobbly mesh stuff they line the sides with.  (She ended up finishing the race, and was shocked to hear she finished third.  Obviously unaware that the other rider at the top never got back up.)
That left 1st and 2nd.  Jacobellis had a HUGE lead.  Around 150 feet, which translated to about three seconds.  Skillfully negotiating the turns, she starting coming down the final straightaway to the finish line.
On the second to last jump, she pulls a showboat move (a "method air,") and lands awkwardly, ultimately landing on her back and sliding for a bit.
While getting up and getting started again, her lead disappears, and the Swede Tanja Frieden glides right past her, and finishes first, embracing friends in ecstasy while Jacobellis places second, very fortunate that the other competitors either never got back up, or fell so bad, that it took them forever to get back on the course.  If all three other riders had been still racing in the same area, Jacobellis no doubt wouldn't have even medaled.
Found a short slide show of the event, but forgive me, I'm a bit uneducated on how to make it a short url:
Shortened link by saint

So...now we look at the psychology of the situation.  Had her competitors been closer to her, obviously she'd have never pulled off that unsportsmanlike move right near them.  She thought she had it won, then lost it by showing off.

The part that really irked me the most of the situation though, was her trying to pass it off as if it wasn't her fault.  She initially claimed she caught some "bad air" or something, and tried to readjust.  Did she really think the entire world was that incompetent?  This is snowboardcross's Olympic debut, but we know showboating when we see it, regardless of the sport.  And there was no mistaking it in this sport.  That was blatant.  Hours later in a conference, she finally 'fessed up.

Now how can a person really EVER get past this.  She had it won.  All she had to do was lazily glide down the hill and sail past the finish line.  But she went stupid, and ended up losing because of it.  When asked shortly after the loss what she thought about the silver medal.  She replied (paraphasing,) "This is the Olympics.  A silver medal's a silver medal."  No doubt a ploy to shrug off the reporter, and avoid any more questions about the situation, by hinting that she's content with the silver.  Yeah right.  Who in the hell would be content with a silver after having the gold waiting for you at the finish line?  She didn't even have to race for it at the last half of the race.  It was literally WAITING for her to claim it as hers.

I suppose one day, when she has children/grandchildren, and they're in sports, she can use it as a motivational tool.  She can explain to them, "This is what happens when you screw around and showoff.  This was supposed to be gold.  This was supposed to mean I was the best in the world.  But I showboated, and I lost the gold because of it."

And on that same topic of showcasing the medal.  Would you display it, proud for all the world to see, knowing that it wasn't the one you wanted, the one that should've been?  I don't think I could.  It would be a constant reminder of one of the grandest failures in sports.  Certainly a majority of the people you live near would know your story, so you couldn't exactly parade the thing around like you were the second best.  You WERE the best, you just didn't have the gold to prove you were.  Most people would still be proud, but you'd still have a few of the pessimists (like me) pointing out "Shouldn't that be gold?"  Truly that would be a grating question.  I'd put that thing away, only to pull it out every once in awhile to remind myself.  Remind myself that modesty is a virtue.  Excessive pride will only bring you down.

Now to look at the opposite end of the spectrum.  What does Tanja Frieden really think?  Is the really a "win" in her book?  Is she proud of herself?  In all honesty, she's NOT the best, though the gold medal around her neck would argue otherwise.  Is this truly the way she wanted to win?  Off someone else screwing around?  Truly, she was beaten.  Badly.  She was around 3 seconds away from the lead.  That's an eternity in the Olympics.  (Hell, even for a fleeting few seconds, I thought maybe Jacobellis would recover in time, and still win.  It was a gigantic gap, and she was still sliding down, albeit on her back.)  Depending on Frieden's conscience, she MIGHT be able to justify her win, and think she's the best.  If that were me though, I don't think I'd be able to consider myself the best.  Not in that way.  I might be able to for awhile, but eventually it would get to me.  I'd be happy that I have the gold (who wouldn't be,) but in the back of my mind, I would know it shouldn't have been.  I'd be ITCHING for the chance to redeem myself.  (Apparently at the X Games, according to the news, Frieden had a lead over Jacobellis, but slightly relaxed at the end only to be passed and beaten by 0.29 seconds.  Sounds similar to this situation with the roles reversed, but the "relaxing" portion was multiplied exponentially.  So all things considered, this wasn't even a relatively similar situation.)  While this may be "payback" for what happened the last time, it still probably wouldn't feel "pure."

She, on the other hand, will showcase that gold for all the world to see.  If anyone asks her about the conditions leading to that gold, she MIGHT give a short one or two line answer about what truly happened, and may even answer an additional quick question, but would most likely try to change the subject. 

Everyone has their faults.  Jacobellis just decided to show hers at the wrong time, and it cost her her dreams.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2006, 01:53:57 pm by saint »
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2006, 01:57:55 pm »
I think she got what she deserved. Actually, I wish 2 others would have passed her and she would have got nothing! I HATE it when people do that kind of crap. It is all over sports and it really bugs me. I have no problem with people celebrating but you don't need to do crap like that.

I really hate it in football when a team is down by like 40 points and someone on the losing team makes a tackle and gets up and starts talking trash. YOU ARE DOWN BY 40 POINTS! SHUT THE F' UP!

I hope some kids will learn from this. Win with grace, don't try to show off. There is no need to try and rub it in. It just makes you look like an ass.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2006, 02:04:50 pm »
Cliffs Notes?
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2006, 04:07:35 pm »
Girl thought she had it won, tried to show off, fell, and lost the gold.  He thinks that she go what she deserves and it serves as a useful reinforcement for her future kids/grandkids  :P

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2006, 04:13:29 pm »
As much as I think she got what she deserved, and totally agree that she should have been passed by two more people and gotten nothing, it makes me wonder if it was pure gloating, or just the thrill of being the first medalist in a brand-new event. 

I'm sure I'd find it pretty hard not to celebrate a bit.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2006, 05:41:21 pm »
GOD I SAW THAT LIVE!

I was so ---smurfing--- pissed! I threw my hat (which I cherrish and treat better than my arcade) across the damn room.

I believe the exact words I used were, "You stupid ---smurfing--- ---smurfette---! What the ---fudgesicle--- were you thinking you show-boating whore"
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2006, 05:46:05 pm »
Just so you guys know, the show-boating chick in question is the girl in the VISA commercial.  The commercial has the girl at the top of the hill looking nervous with her coach trying to encourage her.  Finally the coach says, "Pretend like your Visa check card just got stolen," and then she smiles and says, "I'm good."

Cute girl, but bad decision.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2006, 06:03:41 pm »
Oh and like WE made good decisions when we were 20?  ;D

I feel kind of bad for her, she was feelin' the groove.  She had won, was feeling like a million bucks, and tried to pull a stunt.  Had she made it, it would have been on the highlight reel on American sports shows.  Give the chick a break.  It is snowboarding after all, not like its a sprot that matters :)
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2006, 10:49:58 pm »
Just so you guys know, the show-boating chick in question is the girl in the VISA commercial.  The commercial has the girl at the top of the hill looking nervous with her coach trying to encourage her.  Finally the coach says, "Pretend like your Visa check card just got stolen," and then she smiles and says, "I'm good."

Wow, I had totally forgotten about that...probably won't see those aired through the duration of the Olympics now.

And sure, on one hand, you feel bad for her, because who knows what we would've done in the same situation, but then on the other hand...well, that's what you get.

Gotta keep your eyes on the prize! 

I really hate it in football when a team is down by like 40 points and someone on the losing team makes a tackle and gets up and starts talking trash. YOU ARE DOWN BY 40 POINTS! SHUT THE F' UP!

Now THAT'S comedy!  If you're the guy who just got tackled, that's the EASIEST comeback in the world!

« Last Edit: February 18, 2006, 10:53:39 pm by hypernova »
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2006, 04:58:50 am »


dont be too hard on her! shes an AMERICAN sportsperson after all. you cant just throw a ball through the hoop, youve gotta jump up and hang off the freakin thing. youve gotta do goofy dances after every touch down and punch the air at every opportunity (oh, wait. Lleyton Hewitt does that too). until Lance Armstrong, no american Le Tour rider ever survived their victory because they had to show off and do a lap of honour  ;)

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2006, 09:50:06 am »
Watching it live, I said to my wife, jokingly, she'll probably hot dog it and fall.

I felt bad for her, but she is only 20.  I was a blithering idiot at 20, even though I thought I knew it all.

And you KNOW that the whole olympic world, with their anti-american sentiment, loved what happened.

I don't think the girl who actually won the gold cares.  Remember the US gymnast (last year?) who won the gold because someone tallied the scores wrong?  He got to keep the medal.  That's sad.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2006, 10:02:02 am »
Ha. Ha. HA.

I cannot stand her.  She's in at least 200 commercials right now.  She's some sort of golden child.  We're all supposed to love her.  Ha. 

The original poster mentioned that the woman who did win gold has a tainted win, but I don't see it that way.  She stayed in the race despite being three seconds back, she raced well enough not to fall like the two behind her, and she (unlike goldielocks) kept her focus on the goal and not a spot for a highlight reel.  All-around, I think she did demonstrate that she was the best in the event.  It's not just about what the body does, but also the mental strength involved in performing. 

Screw the showoff. 

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2006, 10:22:08 am »
Wow - hope you never make a mistake in front of someone else.

Ha. Ha. HA.

I cannot stand her.  She's in at least 200 commercials right now.  She's some sort of golden child.  We're all supposed to love her.  Ha. 

The original poster mentioned that the woman who did win gold has a tainted win, but I don't see it that way.  She stayed in the race despite being three seconds back, she raced well enough not to fall like the two behind her, and she (unlike goldielocks) kept her focus on the goal and not a spot for a highlight reel.  All-around, I think she did demonstrate that she was the best in the event.  It's not just about what the body does, but also the mental strength involved in performing. 

Screw the showoff. 
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2006, 11:06:56 am »

There's a saying in football.  To win you have to play 60 minutes.  Not 50, not 55, not 59:45.  60 full minutes.  Teams that play less than 60 minutes get beaten in the end.

She didn't play 60 minutes and she didn't win.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2006, 11:11:05 am »
She didn't play 60 minutes and she didn't win.

That would be a hell of an exhausting snowboard run.  How high would the mountain have to be to stretch the race out that long?  ;D

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2006, 11:20:01 am »

Not high... just a run that goes back and forth.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2006, 12:28:31 pm »
Soccer players have been killed for messing it up for their country, and that's a sissy game.

Luckily for her there were two things going for her, 1 It was just snow boarding, and 2 It was a token female event.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2006, 12:43:11 pm »
Wow - hope you never make a mistake in front of someone else.

Ha. Ha. HA.

I cannot stand her.  She's in at least 200 commercials right now.  She's some sort of golden child.  We're all supposed to love her.  Ha. 

The original poster mentioned that the woman who did win gold has a tainted win, but I don't see it that way.  She stayed in the race despite being three seconds back, she raced well enough not to fall like the two behind her, and she (unlike goldielocks) kept her focus on the goal and not a spot for a highlight reel.  All-around, I think she did demonstrate that she was the best in the event.  It's not just about what the body does, but also the mental strength involved in performing. 

Screw the showoff. 

I've made mistakes in front of others before, but I've never been obviously cocky in front of others - especially in a situation that requires complete focus right up until the end.  See Chad's football saying.  She didn't put in the full effort, she tried to be a hot shot, so she deserves no more than what she got.  She's an olympian, she's supposed to be a world-class athlete.  I have no sympathy.  It would be entirely different if she made the jump carefully without the showboating and still fell.   

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2006, 01:05:22 pm »
Definitely -- she's reaping the rewards of her mistake -- I just don't understand hating on her.


There's a saying in football.  To win you have to play 60 minutes.  Not 50, not 55, not 59:45.  60 full minutes.  Teams that play less than 60 minutes get beaten in the end.

She didn't play 60 minutes and she didn't win.
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2006, 01:24:30 pm »
One word here: Blonde

heh. Such a shame. She'd seemed so nice, humble and level-headed in those Kelloggs videos...
http://www.kelloggs.com/brand/ttt/flash.html

But I'm glad this happened. It's a perfect example of American arrogance.

NO MORE!!

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2006, 01:34:57 pm »
You know ....

I just watched the Italians win the 4-legged ski relay race.  It was pretty exciting. At the end of the 3rd leg the Italians had a 5 second lead. By the end of the 4th leg the Italian skier had boosted that to like 30 seconds.

With meters to go, he pulled off to the side, grabbed an Italian flag from a fan, mosied (seriously mosied) to the finish line, took some baby steps across it while hamming it up a bit.

I thought it was a humorous and stirring win for the home team, and I was cheering for them.

Was that Italian arrogance?




But I'm glad this happened. It's a perfect example of American arrogance.


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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2006, 01:46:01 pm »
Maybe it was just a stupid 20-year-old snowboarder making a really dumb mistake that has nothing to do with her country of origin?  As if she had grown up a bit futher north she'd be above such exuberance?  ;D

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2006, 01:56:58 pm »
Was that Italian arrogance?

Americans are expected to win everything, so showing off is being arrogant.  The flukes that give the little countries a gold medal needs to be savored by the villagers of that country.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2006, 02:03:05 pm »
Was that Italian arrogance?

Yes.


Another angle to this: Whatever happened to aiming to set new records? How the hell do you break existing records by "mosiing" to the finish line? I don't get these people...
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2006, 02:06:49 pm »
Guess my point was: Why is it "American" arrogance instead of the action of one individual? I don't think Italians are arrogant because their skier hammed it up at the finish line.

Was that Italian arrogance?

Yes.


Another angle to this: Whatever happened to aiming to set new records? How the hell do you break existing records by "mosiing" to the finish line? I don't get these people...

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2006, 02:18:58 pm »
Guess my point was: Why is it "American" arrogance instead of the action of one individual?
It's not American arrogance.

You didn't see any of the other snowboard cross events, have you?  Almost everyone in qualifying did something on that last jump.  Almost every single guy in the mens competition did something on that jump too.

Ever watch motocross, snomobile cross, bmx, etc?  Almost all lead people on the last lap on the last tabletop does something.  Granted, most of those the finish line in on top of the tabletop so you fly over it.  But that's a big reason why the last obstacle in most of those events is a tabletop.  Competitors showoff at the end to psych up the crowd. 

If this mess up doing it then too bad, otherwise eh.  It's the nature of those type of sports.

Another angle to this: Whatever happened to aiming to set new records? How the hell do you break existing records by "mosiing" to the finish line? I don't get these people...
That makes sense if something was constant, but cross country isn't.  If the trrack was always the same then you can try to break records.  But since no two tracks are the same what kind of record do you expect to be broken?

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2006, 02:37:31 pm »

And doing such things creates unnecessary risk, leading to the potential to lose for no reason.  Which did happen.

It's not American arrogance, it's just plain arrogance, which is often its own punishment.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2006, 02:39:32 pm »
Me? I watched a ton of it, bunch of hot dogging :) I thought it was fairly impressive. Someone called the women's snowboarding a token sport, but they were getting some pretty big air as well and doing things I sure as hell couldn't... I don't mind the competitors getting excited and doing some hotdogging, you just pay the piper if you screw up.  They train for years, they sacrifice God knows what to get where they are, the adrenelin rush must be just huge ... so if they want to duck walk, snatch off their shirt and yell, grab a flag and carry it... doesn't bother me. Yeah, I think she screwed up and it cost her the gold - but she's still done more than most of us have ever done in our lives.

Pointing out she screwed up? Yeah. Calling her a loser because of it? Jeez....

On another note -- I've been enjoying most of the Olympics so far, but I'm sorry, and I apologize to anyone who'se offended in advance, but.... Curling just bores me to tears!  I've tried, I've tried to appreciate it for what it is, but.... Snnnzzzzzzzzzz......



It's not American arrogance.

You didn't see any of the other snowboard cross events, have you?  Almost everyone in qualifying did something on that last jump.  Almost every single guy in the mens competition did something on that jump too.

Ever watch motocross, snomobile cross, bmx, etc?  Almost all lead people on the last lap on the last tabletop does something.  Granted, most of those the finish line in on top of the tabletop so you fly over it.  But that's a big reason why the last obstacle in most of those events is a tabletop.  Competitors showoff at the end to psych up the crowd. 

If this mess up doing it then too bad, otherwise eh.  It's the nature of those type of sports.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2006, 02:42:33 pm »

The larger issue is that while she is an induhvidual competitor she is part of a larger Team USA to which she is accountable.  She could have brought a valuable gold to Team USA and instead her idiocy brought the team a silver.  She let her teammates down.  That is worse than letting yourself down by a mile.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2006, 02:54:27 pm »
Me?
You (plural, the other readers), not directly at you.  My point was that everyone in that sport does it.  She screwed up, yeah, her fault.  But don't act like none of the other competitors don't.  As you (singular, at saint) noted that it isn't only american.

Quote
On another note -- I've been enjoying most of the Olympics so far, but I'm sorry, and I apologize to anyone who'se offended in advance, but.... Curling just bores me to tears!  I've tried, I've tried to appreciate it for what it is, but.... Snnnzzzzzzzzzz......
Like golf and baseball, may be fun to play but boring to watch.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2006, 02:59:30 pm »
but she's still done more than most of us have ever done in our lives.

I guess that would depend on what one values in life and who is comparing one person's life accomplishments to another's.  I don't think she should be ripped to shreds, but to be lifted above others is something I am not about to do.  I personally don't know anything about her so maybe she has done something to deserve such praise but I don't think there are many people I could make such a statement for.  I sure hope there is more to life than snowboarding (or any sport) to make ones mark in this world.

I mean come on, do you think she has ever built an arcade cabinet from scratch.   ;)

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2006, 03:08:15 pm »
They train for years, they sacrifice God knows what to get where they are....

... which is exactly why they should take every second of their event completely seriously.  She trained for years and made loads of sacrifice for those 90 seconds of race time (or however long it took).  To take the last 2 or 3 of those seconds for granted is an insult to the years she put into preparation. 

And like Chad pointed out, when you're an olympic athlete, you're representing a team and a country.  No athlete from no country should be doing anything cute until a gold medal is already around their neck.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2006, 03:25:16 pm »
The only time I have ever in my life watched any olmpic even is when I happened to cross over the channel on my way to another channel.

So altogether the time I have watched the olympics would be then 1.2 minutes.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2006, 03:28:44 pm »
Nah, don't misunderstand me -- I don't put sports figures on a pedestal, I'm a fair-weather sports fan at best.

What I meant was: She picked something she enjoys, she worked to excel at it, she tried out and made the olympic team, and has travelled the world representing her country. Pretty good for a young woman.  She deserves props for that as well as anyone who lives life bold instead of sitting and watching it go by. It amazes me how many people have never travelled more than 100 miles from where they were born and don't have any ambition to do so.

She doofed up and should be embrarrased - yes, but she's got nothing to be ashamed about. The Austrian doping scandal - that's something to be ashamed about. Shani Davis' behavior after winning the gold - that was shameful (anyone catch the interview?). If I were Lindsey Jacobellis I'd be holding my head (mostly) high, though my cheeks would be red.

--- saint


but she's still done more than most of us have ever done in our lives.

I guess that would depend on what one values in life and who is comparing one person's life accomplishments to another's.  I don't think she should be ripped to shreds, but to be lifted above others is something I am not about to do.  I personally don't know anything about her so maybe she has done something to deserve such praise but I don't think there are many people I could make such a statement for.  I sure hope there is more to life than snowboarding (or any sport) to make ones mark in this world.

I mean come on, do you think she has ever built an arcade cabinet from scratch.   ;)
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2006, 03:29:44 pm »
(By the way, this is a good point.)


The larger issue is that while she is an induhvidual competitor she is part of a larger Team USA to which she is accountable.  She could have brought a valuable gold to Team USA and instead her idiocy brought the team a silver.  She let her teammates down.  That is worse than letting yourself down by a mile.
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2006, 03:30:58 pm »
If I were Lindsay Jacobellis I would not be able to look another US Olympian in the eye.  Her arrogance cost her teammates a gold medal.

Anyone else would be irrelevant because accountability stays with teammates.  Fans... pfft, it's nice, but if they can't be happy with her silver than they should do better themselves.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2006, 03:35:42 pm »
Bottom line is... does she wish she could undo what she did? Hells yeah! Then it was a dumb move. It's a great teaching tool for kids.

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2006, 03:46:14 pm »
It amazes me how many people have never travelled more than 100 miles from where they were born and don't have any ambition to do so.

Different strokes for different folks.  Some people find a lifetime of purpose only miles from where they were born, some need to get away to feel some since of accomplishment, I think it has little to do with ambition though.

I guess the bottom line is "anything worth doing, it's worth doing right."  Bricklayer, Physician or Olympic Athlete all can have quiet fullfilling and purposefull lives.  But to compare ones accomplishments to another is an injustice.  Some people value money, some fame, some family, some religion, some ...

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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2006, 03:48:41 pm »
... think that was the point I was trying to make, but missed apparently :) 

It amazes me how many people have never travelled more than 100 miles from where they were born and don't have any ambition to do so.

Different strokes for different folks.  Some people find a lifetime of purpose only miles from where they were born, some need to get away to feel some since of accomplishment, I think it has little to do with ambition though.

I guess the bottom line is "anything worth doing, it's worth doing right."  Bricklayer, Physician or Olympic Athlete all can have quiet fullfilling and purposefull lives.  But to compare ones accomplishments to another is an injustice.  Some people value money, some fame, some family, some religion, some ...
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Re: Olympic's new USA moron
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2006, 03:55:14 pm »
... think that was the point I was trying to make, but missed apparently :) 

My brain is fried these days so I can miss the obvious, tends to happen this time of year.  After April 15th I should have a better comprehension level, until then only numbers make sense.   ;)