Forum Etiquette and tips to consider and/or follow.

[DrewKaree]

I've been busy farting around with a little side project, and am at the point where I need help.  I registered for their forums, and noticed in reading through their FAQ's and Stickies that someone had laid out a pretty good forum etiquette guide.  Mind you, I noticed in reading through it that I've "violated" several of the pointers, but I thought it worthwhile to share, as well as to apologize for the asshattery I've committed when holding my behavior up for comparison.  Modified for here (the names have been changed to protect the not-so-innocent ):

• Search the forum, before asking something.

.

• Again, SEARCH! (perhaps Google, and take notice of the advanced search option as well)

.

• SEARCH ! (so that no time is wasted in repeating what was discussed ages ago)

.

• If you're new to the forums, spend time familiarizing yourself with the rules, the way you're expected to conduct yourself, Stickies at the top of the forum you're perusing, etc. Otherwise, you may have a more difficult time than is necessary when interacting with others on the forum.

.

• Post a new topic only after you're certain your problem was not already discussed elsewhere in a topic on the forum. After all, there's any number of people here, and its not very likely that you are the first person with the issue that you want resolved - most of of the time, each new wave of members post the same things over and over again, which can get tiresome and/or cumbersome to handle, and don't multi-post the same content across threads. When someone tells you that your topic ought to have been in a different section, DO NOT re-post. Instead, ask a moderator to move it to where it should be.

.

• When you post a new topic, give it a name that describes your post. If its not descriptive enough, people may just skip reading it or you'll not attract the best possible answer to your query.

.

• Stick to the topic. Avoid straying too far off. Never lose your cool, if an argument is on - anger will only invite closure of the topic, or banning you.

.

• Don't add junk/chit-chat posts to important and community-service threads
  (example: the Jukebox Software list or just about any Sticky).  Start a thread in the respective forum if you wish to discuss items within those particular type of threads.  Post only what really makes sense to be there - something that is relevant even months later. It serves little purpose, makes the topic difficult to weed through for pertinent information, and can make the thread grow too big to be of any use when nonsense is posted all over.

.

• If you have some issue which you expect to be solved with help on the forum, GIVE DETAILS of what you tried yourself. If you have a problem with which you can't be bothered to spend a minute to explain, don't look forward to any help that needs time to solve! Everyone's time is valuable. Poking and prodding information out of you to help *YOU* is not a very lucrative thing to do.

.

• When quoting from a previous post, quote only as much as is needed. A good rule of thumb is to ensure that your quoted text is only the part of the post you're replying to.  Ex:
  

  Trim your follow-ups.
  
  Do not quote the entire content of the message to which you are replying. Include only as much as is necessary for context. Remember that if someone wants to read the original message, they can; it is easily accessible. A good rule of thumb is, don't include more quoted text than new text.

.

• English not being your mother-tongue is no excuse for horribly worded and grammatically poor posts. If you can't be bothered to express yourself so that we can understand you, nor should we be expected to spend time translating your post and trying to make sense of it. Especially when the language gets technical, it helps if your language skill is at least past the base-level. We have plenty of non-native English speakers here - so you're not alone, if you don't speak English as a native tongue.

.

• If you're posting code or contents from system files, use the [ CODE ] tags so that we can tell the difference between your post and the code. If there's code, we'd normally skip it over, to see if the question it relates to is worth our time to answer. So posting lots of code, with no formatting nor differentiating your question, is the surest way to NOT get an answer.

.

• Do not make extra-long posts, rambling for ages. Keep it such that a quick scan of your post is enough to understand what you're saying. If you think your post might get too long, use segmenting into numbered points, CODE tags, etc.

.

• If you ask a question in a forum thread and you get responses to it, its your duty to add a post at the end telling which response was useful for you. That way, the others get to know what to do when they themselves feel like asking that question later on - they can just search and find out, instead of wasting time on asking the same question again (and being told back that it has already been discussed).

.

• Seeing a 10-line post being split-up into 4 posts (this is just an example, you get the drift of what is meant) will invite the anger of the moderator as well - greed for post-count will not be allowed to lead to a messy thread.

.

• Don't self-promote your site the moment you sign-up. Wait till you have at least 10 posts to your name before talking about your own site

.

• If someone looks like a person who is most likely to know the answer to your question, it is considered impolite and/or in poor taste to directly PM him/her.  Use the forums for that.  Why is this, you ask? 
  
  Remember that for whoever is most likely to help you, a lot of the pay back is in being seen by the community as a helpful member. Most members come to the forums when they have the time to spare and would like what they post to be useful to the maximum number of people possible, so when you have anything to be asked, it will be perceived as being demanding if you PM a member with your question. If you feel that what you're asking is too trivial, or may be made fun of if you post it - there's nothing to worry about - our forum is a very friendly place, and everybody who has the wherewithal to help you solve your problem will try their best to do so, without any prejudice against anybody.
  
  The downside to resolving these questions through PM'ing is that the other people in the community are deprived of sharing the benefit of the solution. The purpose of PM'ing is widely accepted to be used for personal conversations, or for talking about things that the forum does not cover.

.

• There may come certain situations when you think only a certain member can help you. In such cases, post your question in the forums for discussion and solving - in the appropriate section and topic - and then PM a link (URL) of the page/topic to the member whom you think could be of help to you. You can also PM any other details that you want to keep private. This person will then (if he/she knows an answer) come to the thread whose link you had PM'ed, and respond there. This is so that more people will know what your question is, and the person you PM'ed or somebody else will answer there - that way, you will also get a faster resolution of your problem. More people are benefited too, since a publicly posted topic is kept for future reference and can be searched in the future by people who have the same question as you.  E-mailing an individual directly with your query is considered the same as sending a member a PM - something normally frowned upon.
  
  While BYOAC is close-knit enough to offer individual attention on the forums, there are no guarantees of attention. It could be some days before someone who knows what you are asking about comes across your post. If you need guaranteed support/answers, remember, paid help desks exist for exactly that purpose.

.

• Being gentle on the forum, and following the rules set by the administrators will help your BYOAC experience be a good one.

[missioncontrol]

those rules are stupid

[NinjaEpisode]

Hey can I borrow those?

[More Cowbell]

If all of the questions have been asked and people just search for the answers, how will any new information get communicated? Won't the forum eventually die if people just use the past forum as a database for information. I feel like it helps when people bring things up again every once in a while. Some threads go on for pages and pages while the issues get sorted out (see the new Topgun thread). In 6 months if someone asks what gun options are available, I'm not going to point them to that thread, I'll give them the skinny on it. However, there are such things as stupid questions so the old common sense theme should still be rule #1. If it's in the FAQ or a sticky, there's no excuse as those are set up to supply maximum info in minimum space. Oh crap, I'm rambling.

[CCM]

I've been busy farting around with a little side project, and am at the point where I need help.  I registered for their forums, and noticed in reading through their FAQ's and Stickies that someone had laid out a pretty good forum etiquette guide.  Mind you, I noticed in reading through it that I've "violated" several of the pointers, but I thought it worthwhile to share, as well as to apologize for the asshattery I've committed when holding my behavior up for comparison.  Modified for here (the names have been changed to protect the not-so-innocent ):

• Search the forum, before asking something.

.

• Again, SEARCH! (perhaps Google, and take notice of the advanced search option as well)

.

• SEARCH ! (so that no time is wasted in repeating what was discussed ages ago)

.

• If you're new to the forums, spend time familiarizing yourself with the rules, the way you're expected to conduct yourself, Stickies at the top of the forum you're perusing, etc. Otherwise, you may have a more difficult time than is necessary when interacting with others on the forum.

.

• Post a new topic only after you're certain your problem was not already discussed elsewhere in a topic on the forum. After all, there's any number of people here, and its not very likely that you are the first person with the issue that you want resolved - most of of the time, each new wave of members post the same things over and over again, which can get tiresome and/or cumbersome to handle, and don't multi-post the same content across threads. When someone tells you that your topic ought to have been in a different section, DO NOT re-post. Instead, ask a moderator to move it to where it should be.

.

• When you post a new topic, give it a name that describes your post. If its not descriptive enough, people may just skip reading it or you'll not attract the best possible answer to your query.

.

• Stick to the topic. Avoid straying too far off. Never lose your cool, if an argument is on - anger will only invite closure of the topic, or banning you.

.

• Don't add junk/chit-chat posts to important and community-service threads
  (example: the Jukebox Software list or just about any Sticky).  Start a thread in the respective forum if you wish to discuss items within those particular type of threads.  Post only what really makes sense to be there - something that is relevant even months later. It serves little purpose, makes the topic difficult to weed through for pertinent information, and can make the thread grow too big to be of any use when nonsense is posted all over.

.

• If you have some issue which you expect to be solved with help on the forum, GIVE DETAILS of what you tried yourself. If you have a problem with which you can't be bothered to spend a minute to explain, don't look forward to any help that needs time to solve! Everyone's time is valuable. Poking and prodding information out of you to help *YOU* is not a very lucrative thing to do.

.

• When quoting from a previous post, quote only as much as is needed. A good rule of thumb is to ensure that your quoted text is only the part of the post you're replying to.  Ex:
  

  Trim your follow-ups.
  
  Do not quote the entire content of the message to which you are replying. Include only as much as is necessary for context. Remember that if someone wants to read the original message, they can; it is easily accessible. A good rule of thumb is, don't include more quoted text than new text.

.

• English not being your mother-tongue is no excuse for horribly worded and grammatically poor posts. If you can't be bothered to express yourself so that we can understand you, nor should we be expected to spend time translating your post and trying to make sense of it. Especially when the language gets technical, it helps if your language skill is at least past the base-level. We have plenty of non-native English speakers here - so you're not alone, if you don't speak English as a native tongue.

.

• If you're posting code or contents from system files, use the [ CODE ] tags so that we can tell the difference between your post and the code. If there's code, we'd normally skip it over, to see if the question it relates to is worth our time to answer. So posting lots of code, with no formatting nor differentiating your question, is the surest way to NOT get an answer.

.

• Do not make extra-long posts, rambling for ages. Keep it such that a quick scan of your post is enough to understand what you're saying. If you think your post might get too long, use segmenting into numbered points, CODE tags, etc.

.

• If you ask a question in a forum thread and you get responses to it, its your duty to add a post at the end telling which response was useful for you. That way, the others get to know what to do when they themselves feel like asking that question later on - they can just search and find out, instead of wasting time on asking the same question again (and being told back that it has already been discussed).

.

• Seeing a 10-line post being split-up into 4 posts (this is just an example, you get the drift of what is meant) will invite the anger of the moderator as well - greed for post-count will not be allowed to lead to a messy thread.

.

• Don't self-promote your site the moment you sign-up. Wait till you have at least 10 posts to your name before talking about your own site

.

• If someone looks like a person who is most likely to know the answer to your question, it is considered impolite and/or in poor taste to directly PM him/her.  Use the forums for that.  Why is this, you ask? 
  
  Remember that for whoever is most likely to help you, a lot of the pay back is in being seen by the community as a helpful member. Most members come to the forums when they have the time to spare and would like what they post to be useful to the maximum number of people possible, so when you have anything to be asked, it will be perceived as being demanding if you PM a member with your question. If you feel that what you're asking is too trivial, or may be made fun of if you post it - there's nothing to worry about - our forum is a very friendly place, and everybody who has the wherewithal to help you solve your problem will try their best to do so, without any prejudice against anybody.
  
  The downside to resolving these questions through PM'ing is that the other people in the community are deprived of sharing the benefit of the solution. The purpose of PM'ing is widely accepted to be used for personal conversations, or for talking about things that the forum does not cover.

.

• There may come certain situations when you think only a certain member can help you. In such cases, post your question in the forums for discussion and solving - in the appropriate section and topic - and then PM a link (URL) of the page/topic to the member whom you think could be of help to you. You can also PM any other details that you want to keep private. This person will then (if he/she knows an answer) come to the thread whose link you had PM'ed, and respond there. This is so that more people will know what your question is, and the person you PM'ed or somebody else will answer there - that way, you will also get a faster resolution of your problem. More people are benefited too, since a publicly posted topic is kept for future reference and can be searched in the future by people who have the same question as you.  E-mailing an individual directly with your query is considered the same as sending a member a PM - something normally frowned upon.
  
  While BYOAC is close-knit enough to offer individual attention on the forums, there are no guarantees of attention. It could be some days before someone who knows what you are asking about comes across your post. If you need guaranteed support/answers, remember, paid help desks exist for exactly that purpose.

.

• Being gentle on the forum, and following the rules set by the administrators will help your BYOAC experience be a good one.

What was that rule about quoting?  I didn't quite understand...

[thebrownshow]

If all of the questions have been asked and people just search for the answers, how will any new information get communicated? Won't the forum eventually die if people just use the past forum as a database for information. I feel like it helps when people bring things up again every once in a while. Some threads go on for pages and pages while the issues get sorted out (see the new Topgun thread). In 6 months if someone asks what gun options are available, I'm not going to point them to that thread, I'll give them the skinny on it. However, there are such things as stupid questions so the old common sense theme should still be rule #1. If it's in the FAQ or a sticky, there's no excuse as those are set up to supply maximum info in minimum space. Oh crap, I'm rambling.

Great point, especially in hobby like this.  Perfect examples are things like "How do I set up MAMEWah?!" or any other software questions - the answers are always changing, so the old responses aren't necessarily the answer you're looking for TODAY. 

Now as far as things like "How do I wire up a microswitch?" or things like that, yeah, pointing them to the search function is a good idea.

[DrewKaree]

If all of the questions have been asked and people just search for the answers, how will any new information get communicated? Some threads go on for pages and pages while the issues get sorted out (see the new Topgun thread). In 6 months if someone asks what gun options are available, I'm not going to point them to that thread, I'll give them the skinny on it.

#1. If it's in the FAQ or a sticky, there's no excuse as those are set up to supply maximum info in minimum space. Oh crap, I'm rambling.

Perfect examples are things like "How do I set up MAMEWah?!" or any other software questions - the answers are always changing, so the old responses aren't necessarily the answer you're looking for TODAY. 

It reads as if that ENTIRE list of points has been interpreted to mean "don't ask a question about ANYTHING if there's a SHRED of information on it, even if it DOES NOT pertain to your question or DOES NOT answer your question."  I'd thought that anyone reading beyond the first three "search" points would have realized the rest of the points laid out would have answered, helped, or better refined the views that've been laid out. 

Allow me to clarify.  These should be used as an overall GUIDE, they do NOT rule out asking questions, and PREVIOUSLY correct replies can and do change, necessitating new and improved replies.

The points you've both raised are identical to the forum this was taken from.  Improvements or changes there to established procedures (to parallel the MameWah install example) can and do occur DAILY.  The reason the search was highlighted as it was is the fact that a large number of people DO NOT use the search or (for an example here) input something generic like "pushbuttons", view the brazilian pages and say "I can't sift through all of these threads".  Give this a closer read and see if something jumps out at you that's not often done, something that SHOULD pertain to the points both of you made: 

• If you have some issue which you expect to be solved with help on the forum, GIVE DETAILS of what you tried yourself.

Cowbell, why WOULDN'T you point someone to the Topgun thread in a few months if they asked what gun options were available?  Without any details OTHER than "what gun options are available", why NOT give them that link along with "giving them the skinny" on it?  Wouldn't it be possible that they can extract information from that thread or improve on the ideas within?  Why would you limit someone in that fashion?  Also, your points contradict themselves.  If something IS in a FAQ or Sticky, and you say that's common sense to look there, which would answer the question, how can you then say "it's good for someone to bring up the same question/point every once in a while".  Either there's no excuse for the question, or it's common sense to look there. 

Thebrownshow, wouldn't the query "how do I set up MameWah" need some more info, or would you just assume they meant the most recent version? Wouldn't them giving you DETAILS point to you NEEDING to help them out, since all the tutorials/walkthroughs would be for versions different than what they'd tell you, OR, perhaps they'd still apply to their version!

Maybe you guys dismissed this after reading into the first three points as "SHUT UP NOOB, DON'T ASK ABOUT A DANG THING AROUND HERE, DAMMIT!", but certainly you can agree the above quote counteracts the idea that no questions should be asked, yes?  And since you've been here a while, you should also be able to see that it's NOT often said to "Search, it's in here"


Ninja, I borrowed 'em to post here, why not borrow 'em yourself?

[Bones]

How do I wire "O" & "K" buttons & where can I get ROMS?

[thebrownshow]

Whoa, Drew, I was just making conversation there, wasn't knocking the whole thing. 
I think they're great and would actually help out a lot of people if they were posted somewhere in a sticky.

[More Cowbell]

Whoa, Drew, I was just making conversation there, wasn't knocking the whole thing. 
I think they're great and would actually help out a lot of people if they were posted somewhere in a sticky.

Same goes.
I guess what gets my goat is when someone asks a valid question and gets a steaming answer from someone telling them to search for it themselves.
The sticky information isn't really evolving info so much as basics. So I don't think I'm contradicting myself in saying that anything in the stickies should be pretty basic (common sense after reading it) and everything else is potentially evolving. Isn't that what the major stickies are for? I believe people limit themselves by not searching, but not everyone has 4 days to burn reading through the 'lightgun in mame' issue. It should be a meeting place for people with a common interest that can be used as a database for information, not simply a database of information.

[DrewKaree]

I get that you were making conversation, I just wanted to head off the countless "but telling someone to "search" is...." and the "everyone was a noob at some point" replies.  That seems to be what things such as this degenerate into, and I wanted folks to look at the overall picture instead of focusing on 3 (granted, repeated perhaps once too much) points and dismissing the rest. 

You both brought up what I think are very good points and I wanted them to be seen as melding in with the rest of the other points.  I went over that reply for what seems like forever trying to make it less "no, YOUUUU shut up" sounding. 

I'd like to see something of a wiki-type of FAQ for here so folks could perhaps more easily find basic information about the differing types of controls/interfaces so when something's updated or some (what I think) pertinent information such as how the microswitches should be wired up can be added when someone comes across it, and older info could be catalogued to make it easier to sift through.

I'm also admitting that I've ignored several of these points, as well.   Kind of a refresher on dealing with people and what might be expected of me too. 

[NinjaEpisode]

Well I took "borrowed" them and took the three, which admittedly are a bit over zealous for some, and combined them in to point 1. 

Perhaps this might work better:

• Search the forum, before asking something. Again, SEARCH! (perhaps Google, and take notice of the advanced search option as well) SEARCH ! (so that no time is wasted in repeating what was discussed ages ago)

In reality for me, I just eliminated point 2 and 3

[thebrownshow]

I get that you were making conversation, I just wanted to head off the countless "but telling someone to "search" is...." and the "everyone was a noob at some point" replies.  That seems to be what things such as this degenerate into, and I wanted folks to look at the overall picture instead of focusing on 3 (granted, repeated perhaps once too much) points and dismissing the rest. 

You both brought up what I think are very good points and I wanted them to be seen as melding in with the rest of the other points.  I went over that reply for what seems like forever trying to make it less "no, YOUUUU shut up" sounding. 

I'd like to see something of a wiki-type of FAQ for here so folks could perhaps more easily find basic information about the differing types of controls/interfaces so when something's updated or some (what I think) pertinent information such as how the microswitches should be wired up can be added when someone comes across it, and older info could be catalogued to make it easier to sift through.

I'm also admitting that I've ignored several of these points, as well.   Kind of a refresher on dealing with people and what might be expected of me too. 

Cool, just wanted to clear that up.

As far as a wiki goes... that might not be a bad idea at all.

[DrewKaree]

I threw it out there in the "Board Discussion" forum.  We'll see.  There's a link to an example of how the wiki might work for here as well, from GBPVR.

[APFelon]

Since one of your rules says "keep it short" or whatever...

1) Communication builds community. "Dumb questions" and "common knowlege" posts build communication.

2) This is a forum, not an archive. Y'know, discussion and dialogue. There are many sites dedicated to arcade information. Need we make this another?

3) There is so much white noise around here (thread disruptors, "funny" trolls) that newbie questions that are actually on-topic is a welcome relief. I like being helpful when I can, and I like the gratitude I get when I help..

4) Newbies WILL NOT read through your rambling screed. I have been here for years, and I barely made my way through it.

But, whatever. Folks who got all bent out of shape on the "everything else" debate because of their belief of "if it bugs you, don't read it" won't apply this philosophy to on-topic newbie posts.

I, for one, welcome our new Bible-sized ruleset.

APf