Australia's turn

[Bones]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200511/s1499839.htm

[Stingray]

Is this why we haven't heard from Danny today?

-S

[Stingray]

I hate being right all the time.

cool! now i can GOOGLE how to build a bomb, buy the parts from their CATALOGS, tell other terrorists about it in GROUPS and then find out how to get to the nearest government agency using MAPS (",)

the man is gonna be so surprised! they wont know what hit them. muahahaha!!!

-S

[jbox]

I'm not sure the raid wasn't too early. I know that the media in Australia is generally pro-national, but "final stages" /= "looking at purchasing" in my mind. Final stages is them busting in and finding backpacks and detonators assembled and ready to be used. Most of these guys will probably get small sentances because they hadn't started building their bombs yet.

[patrickl]

Yeah we had/have the same problem in the Netherlands. A few retarded juvenile misfits who somehow got the twisted idea that they need to punish the nation. They were cought with plans of buildings, videosurveilance tapes, plans for bombs and what not, but they had to let them go because of lack of evidence.

It's ridiculous. You need to capture them after they detonate a bomb to get them convicted. Meanwhile this loser is thriving on the publicity.

Anyway, the same retards were at it again and the police arrested the lot of them again. Wonder if they can make it stick this time. I think this time the police waited till the terrorists had bombs.

It's usually the western types that turn to islam that are the worst. These guys have completely lost their marbles and they are easy prey for the vile imams. Like in our case there are two american brothers involved. Americans bombing the Netherlands because we deserve to be hit by the vengence of Allah!

[jbox]

No, you only need to capture them with a bomb. Presumably if they had all of the components of a bomb purchased and laid out on their kitchen table that would be enough as well.

It is a very bad idea to say that every person with 'plans' should be convicted of terrorism. Fortunately Australia doesn't have thought crimes (yet), but I simply disagree with the 'positive press' being generated for the Coalition that these people were in the 'final stages' when they hadn't even bought the parts to their bomb yet.

Hopefully when more details come out we will get a better understanding of the logic and timing that made up these arrests.

[Bones]

I'm not sure the raid wasn't too early. I know that the media in Australia is generally pro-national, but "final stages" /= "looking at purchasing" in my mind. Final stages is them busting in and finding backpacks and detonators assembled and ready to be used. Most of these guys will probably get small sentances because they hadn't started building their bombs yet.

Is this a known fact at this stage?

And if the law does soften its punishment because the building process was interupted due to police intervention, then I feel our new laws are not worth a squirt of my rancid piss. Piss by the way they should be forced to consume as a main source of diet until the time comes that a bullet be fired between their eyes at high speed forcing their terrorist brains out the back of their sicko skulls.

If Australia wants to make a serious attempt to prevent what seems like the inevitable, people discovered with this type of plan in mid process should never be able to see the light of day again.

[jbox]

ABC:

Melbourne lawyer Rob Stary says eight of those charged in Victoria are largely accused of membership offences.

"This is important - they're not charged with any covert conduct," he said.

"In other words, they're not charged with engaging in planning or preparation of any terrorist offence - they're simply charged with membership offences."

The Advertiser:

Mr Stary said the nine men, including Bakr, had been charged with being members of a proscribed organisation under anti-terrorism legislation.

The group had not been specified by authorities, he said.

"They are not charged with being involved in the planning or preparation (of a terrorist act) ... they are charged with a membership offence only," he said.

"They are the only charges."

From past experience, I know you to be a passionate individual who cares deeply about the people around him and reacts strongly. I have no problem with people we can prove are terrorist to be locked in a window-less room which rotates so they can never know which way is North. But we have to make sure we don't start labelling every person the government doesn't like as a terrorist, or let the AFP arrest anyone they want without a court order and then never receive any kind of audit about how many times a year they do this.

I also find it disturbing that the media was invited to come watch the event. Nice to see the government has its procedures all worked out for handling threats like these.

[Bones]

It will be interesting to see what facts rise to the surface over the coming weeks, my radio is telling me a stockpile of chemicals have been seized and this to me indicates more than membership, it indicates intention now or later to cause devastation.

Unless you are a farmer you got no reason to stockpile manure and diesel so I am not concerned with exaiming the smoke screens. The message is pretty damn clear to me.

Any minute now shmokes will show up waving the flag for constitutional rights and there is a place for this but not at the expense of people who are stock piling manure and diesel and are members of an organisation linked to mindless terrorism. If these people walk then we are to blame for future terrorism because we are the ones that give them their second chances.

---fudgesicle--- them.
---fudgesicle--- them all.

They laugh at our soft approach to human rights and use it against us, if we tolerate their ability to work our system against us we are just as bad as the guy carrying the backpack on a bus full of kids.

[jbox]

but not at the expense of people who are stock piling manure and diesel and are members of an organisation linked to mindless terrorism.

Why did you feel the need for this second part at all? You are linked to terrorist organisations in many ways, for example the gentlemen's deal with Indonesia for the natural resources all those years ago. Now it turns out this country was involved in corrupt Saddam dealings as well. Thought crimes are a bad idea.

But what's interesting to me is that I don't understand why you need to differ from the 'flaming liberals' at all. Surely it shouldn't matter in the slightest what organisation you are part of if you are stockpiling chemicals? If I blow up a school bus because I hate kids, or I blow up a hospital because my Lord Darwin tells me only the strong should survive, why is that different from someone blowing up a builiding because they expect to get 100 virgins?

Again, to be clear, I think all of these people should be interrogated and leads should be followed in order to determine what Conspiracy crimes have also been committed, and should that lead off-shore by all means let's play ball with other intelligence organisations. But the fact that my brother once dated a girl whose cousin is a member of Al Jazeera should not give the Government unlimited powers to detain me unknown to anyone else at any time they feel it is in 'the national interest'.

Usually what happens in these cases is the people who live in that house get the full crime, and their friends will get accesory or conspiracy charges since you can't prove *they* were also helping to build the bomb. If we are real lucky, we'll hit the jackpot with each of their names appearing on a receipt for each different component, but Bad Guys(tm) are rarely that easy to nail in the Real Word(tm).

[Bones]

but not at the expense of people who are stock piling manure and diesel and are members of an organisation linked to mindless terrorism.

Why did you feel the need for this second part at all? You are linked to terrorist organisations in many ways, for example the gentlemen's deal with Indonesia for the natural resources all those years ago. Now it turns out this country was involved in corrupt Saddam dealings as well. Thought crimes are a bad idea.

But what's interesting to me is that I don't understand why you need to differ from the 'flaming liberals' at all. Surely it shouldn't matter in the slightest what organisation you are part of if you are stockpiling chemicals? If I blow up a school bus because I hate kids, or I blow up a hospital because my Lord Darwin tells me only the strong should survive, why is that different from someone blowing up a builiding because they expect to get 100 virgins?

Your are absolutely right.

I actually don't differ from the "flaming liberals", I just communicated my opinion poorly via bad grammar.

[jbox]

Okay, now I have you at a base line I get to backtrack. Don't ever lose that passion Bones, because it's people like you that actually get ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- done in the world. Make no mistake about it - auditors have an important role in our world in terms of weeding out mistakes and improving efficiency, but we don't create. Terrorism is a serious crime, but it is a catagory of crime (like murder) and we should never let ourselves pretend that what you wear or read does or does not make you evil. Any harm against your fellow man in any form is what makes them wrong, regardless of what batshit reason they think justifies their crime.

I like you, even though you are a speed demon you drive a bike which means you are (probably) only going to kill yourself. I think you have good and consistant instincts. We should be pushing to cleanse our world of problems like this. The only trick is just to know when to change gears from instinct to reason. Some people do it too quickly, some people do it too slowly. Logic without passion produces the soulless "can't do anything in public" world. Passion without reason produces the "don't tell me to wear a ---smurfing--- seatbelt while I pull a swig on my beer" world. Both have a time and a place.

Now is the time to be angry. But tomorrow we need to be effective. Anyone building a bomb in their house needs some quality time with Bubba, as does anyone who was telling them how and when to do it.

BTW: You are still wrong though. Red heads are way more firey than blondes.

[jbox]

This article on the Advertiser stream seems to have a few more details:

"There's been talk within the Melbourne group that the Sydney group are further ahead than them and they wanted to do something about that," Mr Maidment said.

"The members of the Sydney group have been gathering chemicals of a kind that were used in the London Underground bombings."

If that's true the Melbourne ones will likely get the association charges only, while the Sydney ones are much closer in line to heavier charges. Also, if the guy who shot at police is linked to that group, weld the door shut behind him. There has been a fair bit of talk about computers being siezed, which could provide enough evidence to charge a few more of the Melbourne ones with attempted attack charges.

[DrewKaree]

---auto-censored--- them.
---auto-censored--- them all.

Did they stab a baby?

[Stingray]

Still no word from Danny, I see...

-S

[fredster]

Danny has his own problems....

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17170437%255E421,00.html