Musical Talent Vacuum

[shmokes]

Of course rap is music.  Most of it sucks donkey balls, but no more, really, than Celine Dion.  And some of it ain't bad.  Rage Against the Machine is hair's breadth away from being rap.  And granted, a lot of Eminem's stuff is as bad as the next rapper, but a lot of it is really good.  If you haven't seen his President Bush protest, check it out:  http://www.gnn.tv/content/viewer.html

For the most part I can't get into hardcore rap.  But there's a lot of hip hop I like.  Gorillaz are absolutely brilliant, IMO.

The noise pollution stuff only shows that it's just you aging.  What do you think, the reason kids like rap and hip hop is because it is noise pollution?  When you were a teenager, I think that your parents would have something to say in the debate of whether Twisted Sister was, or was not "noise pollution".  Everyone from Elvis to The Beatles to Zeppelin to U2 to AC/DC to White Snake to Paula Abdul to MC Hammer to Nirvana to Rage to Gwen Stefani, right on up to Eminem has been "noise pollution" to anybody out of their 20's during the entertainer's heyday.  And the further out of your 20's you are, the more likely the current music is going to sound to you like noise pollution.

Seriously....step out of your shoes for a second and ask yourself if the pattern is just a coincidence.  I know that none of us wants to feel like sheep.  We all look at the pattern and acknowledge that, yes, it does happen that way, but in my case it's different.  I am thoughtful, unlike the rest of the unwashed masses.  It is by the merest of coincidences that I am stepping into the pattern exactly where I am predicted to step in.

You know....it doesn't necessarily mean that the "noise pollution" now is any good.  Maybe it truly isn't.  Maybe what it means is that the music on the radio today does suck.  Just as it sucked in the 90's, 80's, 70's and 60's.  Maybe music has sucked since classical moved out of the mainstream.

I don't think so, though.  I think classical was never in the mainstream.  I think that the mainstream just had no access to professional music.  But as technology has brought music to the masses, the masses have demanded and consumed music that speaks to them.  I don't know what it is.  Maybe young people are desperate for indentity and so are receptive to new things.  Or maybe since all the money in music is to be found with young people, the messages tend to speak to them rather than adults.  But it's no coincidence that you still listen to what you listened to when you were cool. 

[SirPoonga]

Reality check, rap ain't music. It is low intelligence words to the background sound of something I could reproduce with a keyboard that costs roughly the same price as a couple of cartons of beer.

Like you said, it's a preference, and your preferenece isn't rap so you won't think it is good, even the good stuff.

Rap has just as much talent as other music.  You know what it takes to play many rock songs?  How many 70s and 80s bands played while high or drunk!  It doesn't take much skill to belt out power chords.  Heck, I've had my bass for less than a year and I can play along with most classic rock, grunge, or punk.

However, there is a difference between rap and hip hop.
As for low intelligence words, gansta rap give rap as a whole that stereotype.  There are rather intelligent rhymes in hip hop and rap.  However, I don't think hip hop or rap will be as good as it was in the 80s.  Run DMC was very good.  Beastie Boys are very good.
Most good hip hop tells a story, there's rarely repeating lines except for an occational chorus.

I like pretty much any music, though "classic" rock is my favorite.  But look at most classic rock, it's the same verses and chorus repeated over and over.
Examples, "Cotton Fields" by CCR, or half of ZZ Top's or Led Zepplin's or Pink Floyd's songs.

I also have all of the White Stripes, Vines, The Darkeness, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, modern rock/alternative rock.  Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, more good modern rock bands.  I also have modern metal like System of the Down, Korn, etc...  Hmmm, headbangers ball...

I also like Gorillaz, what a cool concept.  If you are going to fabricate a band, why not fabricate the entire band   Plus their stuff is good.

Heh, you should see my playlists.  I always select random play on all my music.  So you will get interesting style changes.  Like motown to rap to classical to blues to punk to jazz to hip hop.
I just had White Stripes switch to Goo Goo Dolls to CCR to AC/DC to Magic Slim and the Teardrops(blues) to John Mellencamp to Eric Clapton to Blue Man Group to Green Day to Gorillaz to Korn to System of the Down to Linkin Park to Lenny Kravitz to Blues Brothers Soundtrack to Lynard Skynard to Andrew W.K. to Queen to Beetles to Doobie Brothers to Everclear to Jimi Hendrix to The Who to Warren Zevon to Tenacious D to Weezer to P.O.D to Rage Against the Machine to Santana to Moby to Shaggy.

I did use to like country, I can tolerate it now.  Country just go so repetative, nothing really new.  I know many will respond, "You liked country, you call that music."  I will ask, have you ever played country?  It runs along the same musical rules as blues, rock, etc... musically there isn't much difference, other than there's fiddles, banjos, and steel guitars   Of course, I will listen to Johnny Cash these days, yet.

Heh, I really need an ipod so I can have everything instead of what I can fit on a CD

But yes, there's alot of fabricated pop songs.  What makes the top 20 of the country, the stuff MTV stuffs down teenager's throats and says is popular.  And that's party due to the fact that kids have more time to listen and vote for songs or requests.  How many of you adults request songs on the radio or just listen to what played?

But then, look at how much fabricated music was in the 80s.  Synths could do most of the work.

I know people who hate the Beatles that "grew up" during that time because they think the Beatles are fabricated pop for the time.  Of course, you listen to the studio recording that have been released they did alot of blues rock stuff that didn't make it to albumns.  Cool stuff.

[Dartful Dodger]

Ashlee Simpson No. 1: Evidence of World Ending

[whammoed]

Not sure what O&A is, but I'm also not sure where I got 'junk' from either. I believe I've heard it from many different places.

Opie and Anthony, 'shock jocks' from XM radio.

OK, I thought it was a radio show, but I don't believe I've ever heard them.  I do believe I've heard Adam Carolla  from the man show use the phrase though.

[Grasshopper]

One thing to bear in mind is that only the good stuff gets remembered. I'm sure if you had listened to the charts for any given week in the 60s or 70s then 99% of the music would have been total crap. But that 99% has been forgotten so we're left remembering the good 1%, and we assume it was all of that quality.

Having said that I do think that the 60s, 70s and (arguably) the early 80s were the heyday for pop & rock music.

[whammoed]

From what I can remember I have always thought the current popular music sucked.  Lets face it, most of what you hear on the pop radio stations is crap and won't stand the test of time.  Now that its 2005 I find myself finally buying music from the 80's that was good, and maybe even some of it wasn't all that great but simply holds nostalgic value.

[Zakk]

I had to take a couple of steps back.

[SirPoonga]

...and a guy with a microphone who talks and yells about killing his ex-girlfriend. 

So it's the subject matter, not the writing, huh?

[Zakk]

Oh of course, as seen in my previous post, his writing is exemplary.

[Santoro]

...and a guy with a microphone who talks and yells about killing his ex-girlfriend.

So it's the subject matter, not the writing, huh?

Since when doesn't subject matter

[Bones]

I have a few NIN CD's. Not exactly the sweetest lyrics but at the right times I enjoy it. Maybe this is similar to that rap crap attraction.

[danny_galaga]

I'm old enough to have bought Led Zeppelin's albums when they were still releasing them. I liked them and still do,

my god! you must be older than fredster 

[ChadTower]

O&A Fan? That's the only place I ever heard it referred to as 'junk.'

It's a regional term from MA, which is where O+A got their start for WAAF, before they were fired for announcing on the air that the Mayor had been killed.

[ClubNinja]

O&A Fan? That's the only place I ever heard it referred to as 'junk.'

It's a regional term from MA, which is where O+A got their start for WAAF, before they were fired for announcing on the air that the Mayor had been killed.

Ah yes.  The good ol' days of Boston radio. 

[ChadTower]

They're on one of the satellite places now, yes?

They could be funny, but clearly had no concept of where the lines of civility lay.  There were times I'd be nearly wetting my pants listening to them, and other times I'd turn off the radio swearing I'd never listen again they were so offensive.

[Shape D.]

a microphone who talks and yells about killing his ex-girlfriend.

Early one mornin' while makin' the rounds
I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down
I went right home and I went to bed
I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head

Eminiem isn't the only person to have written about killing someone. you can find examples of it in all kinds of music, rap, country, rock, metal, punk, pop. Yes a lot of eminiem's work is of a darker subject matter, but its still art. Just like you could go watch a romance movie, you can watch a horror movie.

To anyone who doesn't consider rap as music go check out a group called "The Roots". These guys are definitely one of the better groups out there and they use a band instead of rapping to sampled or electronically created music.

P.S. Johnny Cash rocks the house.

[ChadTower]

Hey Joe
where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
Hey Joe
I said where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
I'm goin down to shoot my old lady,
you know I caught her messin' 'round with another man.

[Shape D.]

Janie's got a gun
Janie's got a gun
Her whole world's come undone
From lookin' straight at the sun
What did her daddy do?
What did he put you through?
They said when Janie was arrested
they found him underneath a train
But man, he had it comin' Now that Janie's got a gun
she ain't never gonna be the same.

[RayB]

In the late 70's there was a whole "Disco sucks" movement. Every generation has had cheesy music. Every generation has had a few genuine talents that stand the test of time, along with manufactured "me too" bands.

So Eminem can speak words to a rythm. WOW. In theory, every vocalist is supposed to have the ability to speak words to a rythm, except also do it following a melody (it's called "singing"). I guess that makes Eminem a vocalist who can only do half the job.

[shmokes]

LMAO.....The Megadeth album that I posted a picture of earlier is called "Killing is Our Business" or something to that effect...I can't be bothered to actually look.

Look, I don't deny that Neil Peart, in his virtual office of percussion, is (was) an extraordinarilly tallented drummer.  There's no question.  And Geddy Lee is probably very talented....I'll take your word on his bass playing being second to none, though his high pitched voice is a bit grating.  But their music, for the most part, sucks.  It's, how does one say......hmm....I believe "noise pollution" is the correct term for it.  And much of their lyrics sound like they were lifted from hack fantasy literature.  Though, to be honest, when I was in high school, about 9 or 10 years ago, I really loved Rush.  C'est la vie.  Times change, and so to my tastes.  I finally traded in my Rush greatest hits album a few years ago when I was feeling nastolgic and tried to listen to it.

Point is.....they don't suck.  They suck now.  Just as Eminem couldn't sell a single album 20 years ago and would probably never emerge 20 years from now.  He would suck in either of those times.  And you belong to one of those times.  If your child could rap like Eminem you would be extraordinarily wealthy.  You have a goofy, simplistic idea of what rapping is and think to yourself that all you do is say, "My name is Zakk and I'm here to say..."  That's not it.  Few people can do it well enough to become famous.  Many people try.   I'm so hungry right now I'm shaking and can barely type. 

Your comparisons are absurd.  It's like doing a direct comparison between a Robert Frost and Earnest Hemmingway and faulting Robert Frost for not having the in depth, extraordinary character development you get in a Hemmingway novel.  They're both writers, but they do completely different things.  Neal Peart is extremely talented, but would be laughed off the stage if he tried to rap.  Even if he was interested in rap and practiced and tried to become good he would be laughed off stage.  Because few people can do it well and there's no reason to think that being a good drummer would make you a good rapper.  Or vice versa.

Your ideas are like saying that some famous french chef is talentless based on the fact that you personally hate french cuisine.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

The Megadeth album that I posted a picture of earlier is called "Killing is Our Business"...

It had a subtitle of, "...and Business Is Good."

It was mostly a jab at the U.S. Military-Industrial Complex. The bands name itself is a homage to having to live under constant nuclear threat. Hence their name "Megadeath", which is a riff on the term "Megadeath".

Definition: one million deaths -- usually used as a unit in reference to nuclear warfare.


mrC

[Ed_McCarron]

Nah....that just means that you skipped the best part of your life.

If the best part of my life was deciding "Debbie Gibson or Tiffany" then I've got nothing left to look forward to. 

[Zakk]

Alas, no schmokes.

[Zakk]

The Megadeth album that I posted a picture of earlier is called "Killing is Our Business"...

It had a subtitle of, "...and Business Is Good."

It was mostly a jab at the U.S. Military-Industrial Complex. The bands name itself is a homage to having to live under constant nuclear threat. Hence their name "Megadeath", which is a riff on the term "Megadeath".

Definition: one million deaths -- usually used as a unit in reference to nuclear warfare.


mrC

I think you're reading too much into it, it's actually megaDETH.  I think Dave Mustaine just thought up the first cool sounding thing that came to his mind after he got fired from Metallica.  However, I wish I had your definition when I was a young cool-guy like shmokes.  That would have been a better answer than "huhhh huh huh huuuuh huh... they said deth  huh huh huuuh" 

[ChadTower]

If you look closely at the average lyrical content of a Megadeth song, that answer does make sense.

Countdown to Extinction is pretty much all about war and abuse of power.

Sweating Bullets is still one of my very favorite songs, right along with Symphony of Destruction.

[Zakk]

Damn, damn fine songs.  However, I still wouldn't hold megadeth up as one of the world's greatest bands.  In fact, they're really just a good metal band.  I love 'em, but I was illustrating that I can keep my perspectives straight.

Now off to crank some megadeth.  The other people in the office will love it, I'm sure of it!!!

[ChadTower]

Oh, I hadn't read much of the thread.  I am not claiming Megadeth is one of the world's finest bands.

Lead singer does have some of the world's finest hair, though.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I think you're reading too much into it, it's actually megaDETH.  I think Dave Mustaine just thought up the first cool sounding thing that came to his mind after he got fired from Metallica.

You're kidding, right?

I'm basing this off of what Dave Mustaine, himself, has said. He had stated the band's name was based on the term "Megadeath", when he heard it in a news report re: Nuclear destruction. You also have to look no farther than the cover art, lyrics, and branding imagery surrounding that band. (Btw, I was a fan when I was 14-15yr)

"Peace Sell, But Who's Buying?"

(That's the U.N. complex that's destroyed in the background)

"So Far, So Good...So What?"

(More warfare imagery)

"Greatest Hits"

(How convenient...a mushroom cloud!)

"The System Has Failed"

(U.S. leaders from past and present, line up for payment from their "reaper" character, in front of a crumbling White House.)


If anything, they were an immensely anti-war, anti-establishment band, imaging a horrible post-apocalyptic environment brought on my M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction) and blaming political leaders of all stripes for a lack of compassion and foresight. There is no need to "read into" anything, they worked pretty hard to put it right up in your face.

Tell me you were kidding?!

mrC

EDIT: Spelling error

[Stingray]

Hey, I had both of those albums back when they were new. Yes, vinyl.

No they aren't one of the world's great musical groups, but they're pretty good  if you're into metal. They're about a world and a half better than Eminem, but of course, that's just my opinion.

-S

[ChadTower]

I like Eminem.  His emergence saved an entire musical genre.

[Stingray]

I like Eminem.  His emergence saved an entire musical genre.

You mean the spoiled white kids who think they're cool enough to rap, but are sadly mistaken genre?

-S

[ChadTower]

No, he actually can, and he can write, too.

He did inspire a whole load of idiots who saw 8 Mile too many times, though.

[Zakk]

Haha Yes Mr. C I was kidding, I've followed them since they formed, and I'm well aware of Mustaine's heroin-soaked antiwar musings.  In fact, I've stayed current right up to his war-soaked antiheroin musings (use the man).  All in all, a very enjoyable and longlived group.  Oh, and he does have good hair


Oh and Ch4d, w3rd in th4 h00d has it that Eminem's MOM wrote his lyrics for him.   

[Stingray]

Oh and Ch4d, w3rd in th4 h00d has it that Eminem's MOM wrote his lyrics for him.   

Even if this is not true, I choose to believe it.

-S

[shmokes]

h4x0rs != Gangstas

I don't even know Megadeth.  I missed out on them entirely.  I didn't know they were a Metallica offshoot until about 30 seconds ago.  Although the fact that Mr. C owned at least two of their albums makes me question whether he missed that whole pop music thing afterall 

[pointdablame]

Haha Yes Mr. C I was kidding, I've followed them since they formed, and I'm well aware of Mustaine's heroin-soaked antiwar musings.  In fact, I've stayed current right up to his war-soaked antiheroin musings (use the man).  All in all, a very enjoyable and longlived group.  Oh, and he does have good hair


Oh and Ch4d, w3rd in th4 h00d has it that Eminem's MOM wrote his lyrics for him.   

WTF... rappers dont speak 1337

[Zakk]

WTF... rappers dont speak 1337

Sure they do, they copy it off the net, then claim it as their own while people tell them how talented they are at l33t! 

[ChadTower]

Megadeth is a Metallica offshoot the way Peter Gabriel is a Genesis offshoot.

[RayB]

The only rap I will spend money on is M.C. CHRIS!! YEAH!

[Zakk]

Megadeth is a Metallica offshoot the way Peter Gabriel is a Genesis offshoot.

Now I am going to say something obvious, just to see myself say it.