Musical Talent Vacuum

[DYNAGOD]

The huge, sucking, black vacuous void that this world refers to as "popular" music is threatening to devour us all, wiping out all traces of talent as we know it along its path of wanton destruction..

i was just looking at yahoo, and thought i would see what the WORLD thought the TOP 20 things in music are...

i knew it was bad, but somehow you just cant prepare yourself for this kind of thing...


these are not padded stats or juiced up polls, this is what the people are looking at "right now", en masse....

an utter and complete talent vacuum in the mainstream right now..

whats also most striking about this data is what it says for Adult/R&B artists and their obvious lack of market penetration onto the internet.  if i were an artist of this ilk i would be calling my representation wanting to know how my iconic stature had somehow been forgotten to be put forward on what is the largest, single most important forum of mass media on the planet today. How many of the artists on that list are much over drinking age?
Seems as though an entire ERA of musicans were forgotten in the transition from analog to digital..

[Jabba]

Only band there I listen to is Green Day. They have a lot of good songs. Other than them, Meh!

[Bones]

Yeah I tend to agree. I am a little sick of the fabricated bands invented on TV.

Music should be all about hard times, drug abuse, suicide attempts, playing in pubs & getting cut with broken glass, sex with groupies and just generally living as hard as possible. This creates music with passion. 

However, from that list I own CD

[pointdablame]

Green Day, My Chemical Romance, and to a lesser extent Fall Out Boy are NOT talentless.

I agree with you otherwise.

[danny_galaga]

oh. i thought this was going to be a thread about those 'idol' shows (",)

[missioncontrol]

Music should be all about hard times, drug abuse, suicide attempts, playing in pubs & getting cut with broken glass, sex with groupies and just generally living as hard as possible. This creates music with passion. 

I miss the 80's hair bands........

 

that list is just sad

[duffjr]

how is BEP at number 1 but they're song is at number 2?  is my humps a band too?  that has to be the worst song i've ever heard.  it's a sick song that's supposed to entice masturbation but leaves you wondering what lumps are (breast cancer) and humps.  how does a song about lumps and humps make someone famous?  the bum bum song had a cool video.  it wasn't just my bums, my bums, my bums, my bums.

here's a review i found:

5- My Humps- 5/5- hahaahahahahahah was what i said after listening to this. It is one of the most hilarious songs ever. My humps is one of the best songs this yera.

is this what people think these days?

kanye west didn't even make that list?  and he has good songs.   anyone notice the chorus for golddigger is almost the same as i got a woman by ray charles?

[RTSDaddy2]

Dare I say it....it's gonna make me sound old...

People ask what's wrong with kids today, but if you look at (and or listen to) this garbage that's passing for music, you'll KNOW what's wrong.  From Country to Pop to Rock, there's not a blasted one of them that would be worthy of holding the guitar picks or sitting at the pianos of the true legends (Ray Charles, Willie Nelson, Chet Atkins to name a few) of "popular" music.

[missioncontrol]

That's what's wrong with music today there are no awesome guitar solo's. all these so called musicians need to enroll in the Eddie Van Halen school of rock.


call me old but they don't make music like they used to.

[Jabba]

This thread needs more cowbell...

http://www.buckdharma.com/dharmavideo/DharmaGuitReap.wvx
(required Windows Media Player)

(Buck Dharma, one of my all time favourite guitarists, this is what music needs back!!!)

(Here is a great lesson on how to play Don't Fear the Reaper by Buck himself

[Sephroth57]

fall out boy is an amazing band btw, helped pioneer the punk/emo scene as it is today.

[jhanson]

You really need to check out Paranoid Social Club.  They are an awesome band from Portland, ME who just ooze talent.  They just recently came and played in Richmond, and were absolutely amazing.  They are great in concert and in the studio, and are way outside the mainstream.  If you go to their website, you can download a free song ("Wasted", it's about drinking of course).  They also have a couple of live shows on archive.org that you can download too.

Most of their songs are about the three important things in life - women, music, and partying.  They also have a wicked sense of humor that comes through in some of their songs...

[shmokes]

Basically y'all are just old.  BEP are extraordinarily talented, as are many on that list, including Shakira, Eminem, Greenday.  I don't know Fall Out Boy or My Chemical Romance, but I bet they're good.  Mariah Carey is extremely talented, though I can't stand her music.  Even Britney Spears newest album has a lot of talent on it, albeit none of it appears to be her talent. 

Think about it.  Your parents (or at least grand parents) think that Ray Charles, Willie Nelson and Chet Atkins are terrible.  They couldn't listen to five minutes of that garbage.  Just like the teeny boppers of today will carry on about the ---smurfy---, talent-free music their teenagers are listening to.

...old people.

[Zakk]

I disagree.  The best musicians are the ones that study all kinds of music, and incorporate it into their music.  These bands play techno beats, and insipid power chords, laid out by record-label overlords and industry 'music writers'. 

Since I have 4 kids, I get a non-stop barrage of this stuff.  Basically, if someone has a complex sound, it comes from a professional music writer.  If it sounds like it came from drunken teenagers that only ever learned to play 3 chords (if that), then they might have written the songs themselves. 

Long gone are the days of the bands that took it to another level, such as zep, the stones, or the beatles.  The 60's and 70's really WERE the best decades for musical development.  It was uncharted waters, and the bands had to rely on the quality of their music to sell records and tours, not promotion and trend-following.  I love the 80's metal, but it was the start of a horrible degeneration in music, no doubt. 

It has nothing to do with age in this case.  Do you really think the teenagers of today will grow up and say "ach, that band is garbage!  They don't have any of the talent of 50 cent, the Back Street Boys or laffy taffy!"

Find me a band that actually worked their way up through the clubs, and write all their own music, and can move a generation, and I'll give you two of my kids (the ones that listen to ashlee simpson). 

[Harry Potter]

Find me a band that actually worked their way up through the clubs, and write all their own music, and can move a generation, and I'll give you two of my kids (the ones that listen to ashlee simpson). 

Silverchair

[AmericanDemon]

I loved the first Silverchair album, but they degraded from there.  I enjoyed the grunge phase but the quality dropped from there on IMHO

[Harry Potter]

I loved the first Silverchair album, but they degraded from there.  I enjoyed the grunge phase but the quality dropped from there on IMHO

Can't really agree with you on that one. I think the only thing that went wrong with them is they became too popular too fast.

[Zakk]

Right, they became popular, their label told them to become more mainstream, so they copied every other 'grunge' top-40 band.  Don't think I'll put the 'silverchair' box set up on the shelf with the Hendrix one any time soon.  Not a bad band mind you, just nowhere near innovative or original enough to make the grade.  I put them in the same boat as Oasis.  Well, maybe that's a bit too harsh. 

[Harry Potter]

way too harsh

[shmokes]

Modest Mouse, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Dave Matthews Band, The Honorary Title, Audioslave, Weezer, Gorillaz, The Strokes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Outkast, Eminem, Black Eyed Peas, Bloc Party, The Rolling Stones (not really fair, but they did just release a best-selling album, afterall  ), Wilco, Built to Spill, Sublime (R.I.P.),  Blues Traveller, Tool, Fiona Apple....

Do I get all your kids now?

What, are you gonna try to tell me that in 1967 there was no copy-cat crap on the radio.  The problem is, you spend so much time listening to classic rock or 80's stations, which have the exact same format as a top 40's station, except instead of playing the top 40 songs of the moment they play the top 40 songs of a decade or two and play them over and over again.  What does it say about classic rock when you here D'yer Maker three or four times in one day on the same station?  Did 10 or 20 years really produce so little good music that they have to repeat like that?

The radio was filled with crap in the sixties just like it's filled with crap now.  It wasn't a bunch of kids getting music degrees and studying theory.  It was a bunch of rebellious, pot smoking punks, just like today.  And just like today you had standout bands, and filler material.  Icons and one hit wonders.  I know all this and I wasn't even alive.  Impressed?

[Zakk]

I don't really see any of those bands as being able to "move a generation" so I get to keep my kids.

[Ixliam]

I wanna how Tupac keeps making records... he's made more records as a dead guy that when he was alive.

I have no idea what's popular anyway, since I have an iPod I just put what I want on there and listen to that. Only new things I get are the podcasts I'm subscribed to.

[Harry Potter]

Modest Mouse, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Dave Matthews Band, The Honorary Title, Audioslave, Weezer, Gorillaz, The Strokes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Outkast, Eminem, Black Eyed Peas, Bloc Party, The Rolling Stones (not really fair, but they did just release a best-selling album, afterall  ), Wilco, Built to Spill, Sublime (R.I.P.),  Blues Traveller, Tool, Fiona Apple....

90% of that list is excellent.

[shmokes]

Neither your parents, nor your kids understand what was so great about Zeppelin, Hendrix, the Beatles or the Who.  Just like you don't understand their music.  The reason you think that this new music can't "move a generation", whatever that means, is it doesn't move your generation.  Just because the music isn't speaking to your generation doesn't mean it's not speaking to a generation.

And Kelly Clarkson is like nails on a chalkboard.  Your dismissals of those bands is absolutely hillarious, especially when it's followed by your acceptance of the screaching cat, American Idol creation, Kelly Clarkson.  Eminem is a white boy pretending to be a black gansta?  What does that have to do with his talent?  Is tiger woods or venus williams untalented as well, since they are just blacks pretending to be white?  Do the Cars or CCR suck because their music was technically simple?  Nirvana just made good music.  If you'd rather listen to that 10-year old kid who someone posted a video of, that's your thing.  I'll take compelling over technically difficult to play any day of the week.  Rage is a bit boring?  You know what's boring?  LED ZEPPELIN.  I've heard every Led Zepplin song a billion times.  I'm not content with watching the same movies over and over again, or reading the same books over and over again, or listening to the same music over and over again. 

Basically all your complaints come down to "kids these days".  You're old.  Your parents said the same thing about Zeppelin.  You, who are old enough to be my dad, say it about the Yeah Yeah Yeahs.

[Zakk]

Okay, get all worked up shmokes.

[shmokes]

No, probably not.  Yeah Yeah Yeahs are really great, but don't have nearly the mass-market appeal that Zeppelin had.  Those hot headed punks will, however, say that about Nirvana.  They will say it about Dave Matthews Band.  I love how you ignore the majority of my list to make your job easier.  I can't tell you that I've heard every The Who or Jimmy Hendrix song a billion times either.  Not every band, or even great band from any generation will continue to be played to the degree Zeppelin is.  And even if they are it doesn't even have to mean that they're particularly great bands, in and of itself.  Def Leopard, for example, still gets plenty of radiotime. 

I think, by the way, that you are confused about Fiona Apple.  She's not a corporate creation like Britney and Christina.  She's an accomplished pianist who writes all her own music and got discovered by recording her own demos and getting picked up.  And she's damned good.

(and sorry, I don't know how you can make fun of eminem's name when one of your favorites is Megadeath and something tells me you're a fan of the stage clowns Kiss).

[Zakk]

I ignored most of your list because it seemed like you named every band that made a hit record or made it to the charts in the past 10 years.  And to be honest, I thought modest mouse was a cartoon character...

Oh, and for what it's worth, I HATE kiss.   

I gotta say though, I DO understand and appreciate your passion for music, however misguided 
 

[danny_galaga]

I loved the first Silverchair album, but they degraded from there.

[missioncontrol]

I wanna how Tupac keeps making records... he's made more records as a dead guy that when he was alive.

he's not dead that's just a conspiracy 

[pointdablame]

Nirvana was the pinnacle of unskilled musicians.  They were the anti-Halens.  Rage is a bit boring, Dave Mathews is nice college bar music, Eminem is a white boy pretending to be a black gansta, Blues traveller is depressing, Tool is good but would never catch the ear of a broad audience and fiona apple....that's a strange choice to compare to zep.

Those are nice opinons.. but that's what they are. Your opinions.  You come off as if you are "proving" to shmokes and others you are right.. how?  by saying "they are boring"

I'm not going to go off on a huge musical debate here, but I have to agree with shmokes on the fact that you feel that way simply because it isn't YOUR music.  Rage is boring to you, but to many people, they DID define a time...

To many many people, Sublime IS a band of a generation, and one that will not be forgotten.  If you don't like it, fine, but you can't dismiss it because of ignorance.

I'm 21, and through my father I love Pink Floyd, Zep, Yes, The Beatles, etc.  And you're right Zakk, 99.9% of the bands today can't shine the shoes of that level of talent.  However, musical talent didn't just vaporize in the 80's.  The MUSIC INDUSTRY caters to the people, who have grown accustomed to this utter garbage that is in the mainstream today.  That however does NOT mean that all bands today are talentless.  Incubus is a band that springs to mind that has a wide musical range and a ton of talent.  I'll say their last album was not breathtaking, but they are musicians... not pretty faces with powerchords.  There are a LOT of good bands today,  you just need to sort through the rubbish Top 40 radio pushes on you.

A whole lot of "music people" know a lot about THEIR music, but not a lot about music in general... and you're dangerously close to falling into that stereotype.

[Bones]

Music obtained perfection with Cold Chisel, Midnight Oil, The Angels and to some extent the Choir Boys and the Radiators.

That should pretty much finalise this particular debate.

[duffjr]

it said i submitted the post... but it's gone now.  it was a classic too.  very controversial.

[shmokes]

Technical talent is only of limited use anyway.  Is Mariah Carey better than Janis Joplin or Blondie because she has a better voice?  Mariah Carey could be singing Opera if she wanted.  For that matter, why listen to any of them when you can just listen to Opera if you want "the best"?  Are the Smashing Pumpkins or Oingo Boingo better than Led Zeppelin, simply because they are more skilled musicians?  Why not just listen to recordings of the London Symphony Orchestra?  Every member is a master of his/her instrument (most of them are highly skilled at many instruments).  Page and Plant can't touch the classical guitarists playing for any major city's orchestra. 

My list reads nothing like one of every band who's had a hit.  In fact, at least four of them are relatively unknown and have never had a single song on the charts.  All of them are extraordinarily talented.  None of them are corporate creations.  Each band was discovered from obscurity after they worked their way up, playing in clubs and the like (with the exception of Audioslave, which took the musicians from Rage and paired them with the singer from Soundgarden). 

The fact is, for many people the discussion begins and ends with Frank Sinatra, for many it's Buddy Holly, Hank Williams, Run D.M.C., Radiohead, R.E.M., Zeppelin, Tupac, Beatles, Bach, Britney Spears, Chicago, Billy Joel, Nirvana, Dr. Dre, Beastie Boys, Celine Dion....  And in every group you will have myopic individuals convincing themselves that theirs is more special than everybody else's.  How do you compare Hank Williams with Led Zeppelin?  They can only be properly understood in their own context which, frankly, is: how do the teenagers react to it?  I don't care what you tell yourself, the reason you listen to Zeppelin is that is who made a mark on you when it mattered -- when you were a teenager or in your twenties.  Just like 99% of everyone else you opened your mind to new music when you were 13 and closed it when you were 30.  If it wasn't made in that time period it is inferior. 

I know that you say, "Well, yeah, but in my case it's because it's true."  Newsflash....that's what they all say.

[Bones]

Rolling Stones. They span all our glory years and they still suck ass.

[Zakk]

I'm not trying to be on a high horse.

[Trenchbroom]

I know I shouldn't, but I've got to add to this thread.

MY problem with music today is twofold:

1.  Musical talent is gone.  Or, at least the musical talent that I appreciate.  I've always been a fan of musicians, not singers, not producers, etc.  People who could write and perform music that could touch someone's soul. 

Today, most of what I hear is not "music".  It's "musical engineering".  A top 20 song comes on the radio and while listening I can just see in my mind the team of writers, producers, PR men, image designers, etc. working behind the scenes.  All respect is lost at that moment.

People defend performers like Mariah or Clarkson for their singing ability.  Fine.  But when I hear them I always think about Mozart and the singers who performed his Operas over the years.  The singers may have been famous in their day for their amazing singing ability...but Mozart will remain forever.

2.  LCD music--lowest common denominator.  Like TV or movies, much of music today is pure hype/shock value.  Now I know that since Elvis and his pelvis, Jim Morrison with his lizard hanging out onstage, or Alice Cooper and his theatrics, shock value has always been a part of rock music.  But I was a teenager when 2 Live Crew came on the scene, I bought one of their CD's...and I've regretted supporting them and what they represented ever since. 

From the rap thugs and their X-rated prose to all of these skanky women either singing the music or shaking their big a$$es on the music videos, it's all a bunch of crap! 

Combine #1 with #2...sad times for music.  Sad sad sad.

[RayB]

You guys talk like this is all new. No, the only difference is that back when you thought there was good music on the top charts, you were younger and much more tolerant (or ignorant).

The 80's had just as much manufactured "samey" music. Anyone ever heard of "Stock Atkin Waterman"? They pumped out studio-made hits one after the other. Even so-called heavy metal was pretty crappy. (We thought that "singing" was good??)

Labels have ALWAYS stuck to strict "no risk" formulas. It's what makes money. Especially when you control radio.

I also wouldn't put too much trust into so-called "top X charts" either. If millions of people are enjoying a band that isn't on the radio and isn't on a big label, then that band won't show up in the list, regardless how popular they are through other channels.

[shmokes]

shmokes:  I think y'all are just getting old so you can't recognize immense talent in many current artists because you're set in your ways.

Zakk:  I disagree.  Show me one band that worked their way up through the clubs and take my children.

shmokes:  Here is a long but incomplete list of wonderful modern bands who are all self-made.  Give me your children.

Zakk:  They don't count.  They all suck.  To count your name must be Zeppelin or Floyd or Clarkson (the corporate creation who's first hit song was literally kareoke  ). 

shmokes:  They do count, but as I said you are getting old and think of new music the exact same way that your parents thought of Zeppelin.

Zakk:  You've taken this personally and gotten all worked up.  We'll see what you're listening to in 20 years.


I'm not worked up and don't take this personally except that I personally disagree with you.  I don't think I'm disagreeing with you any more forcefully than you are me.  Would it help if I peppered my post with more smileys?  Very few threads ever get me worked up (the last being the death penalty thread, probably).  I just like rhetoric and arguing.

[DrewKaree]

fall out boy is an amazing band btw, helped pioneer the punk/emo scene as it is today.

How do you pioneer what you call punk when you have a "term" for it that came from....well....the pioneers?  And throwing the phrase "as it is today" on the end simply negates the term "pioneer".

That's the most disjointed declaration since FTW. 

[Tailgunner]

I'm old enough to have bought Led Zeppelin's albums when they were still releasing them. I liked them and still do, but I also recognized back then they were making a fortune by ripping off guys like Robert Johnson and making blues palatable to the teenagers of that era. The same could be said of the Stones, Eric Clapton, and others.

I don't think there is any shortage of talented young musicians these days, the problem is the industry has consolidated to the point that they are unwilling to take a risk on bands that don't fit into one of the neat little boxes that have proven to make lots of money. If something does slip through the cracks and succeeds, 20 minutes later the companies have signed a dozen acts that are similar and the market gets saturated. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon, it was in full swing by the time of the 80's hair metal bands.

[Zakk]

shmokes you are the coolest.

[DrewKaree]

shmokes you are the coolest.  Okay no smileys.  Sorry they offend you so much, since I know you revel in conflict.  Hey, maybe I can get a "what people are saying about me since the sun, moon and earth revolve beneath my feet" quote.

Tell you what then. Your bands suck.   I struck a nerve, and hey, good.  Glad I got through to you.  You don't get my kids cuz hey, even they think you're a goof.  Go listen to beastie boys and be proud.  As I said I'm happy for you.  You are the total shiznitz cool boy.  I'd love to hang out with you and your yeah yeah yeah friends.  I couldn't imagine the fun.  I'm going to get me a fiona apple t-shirt (in shmokes super-extra small size) and wear it with pride.  Then I'll go around calling every 30 year old an old geezer that's out of touch with reality.

I'd throw a smiley in there since the above tirade was so rediculous, but I know you like to be taken seriously (since it happens so rarely in real life), but as you have let me know, you don't care for that.  Have a great day, and know that I am sitting at home bowing to your greatness, and scratching my head as to why I even bothered to type all this    (oops dang, another smiley.  Sorry boss, it won't happen again)

[singsong voice] You really liiiike him!  You wanna kiiiiiiss him!  You wanna huuuuuug him!  You wanna maaaarry him![/singsong voice]

Zakk and shmokes sittin' in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g!

ahem.....not that there's anything wrong with that

[Santoro]

Basically y'all are just old. BEP are extraordinarily talented, as are many on that list, including Shakira, Eminem, Greenday.

Joining this party late, but I need to comment.

[Bones]

So, to my point. IMHO Emininem Suuuucks.  Completely devoid of talent, writing skills, creativity. What is the allure of this dude?

Couldn't have said it better myself. They Suck ass-hat big time with great vengeance and furious ass-hat sucking supremacy.

Hmmm... Perhaps I can say it a little better.

[Sephroth57]

fall out boy is an amazing band btw, helped pioneer the punk/emo scene as it is today.

How do you pioneer what you call punk when you have a "term" for it that came from....well....the pioneers?

[DrewKaree]

Yeah, but I'm telling you that you can't pioneer the wheel, even if you streamlined it to make it "what it is today". 

That's like saying Columbus invented America or something

[Zakk]

Boy, that last post of mine must have been the whiskey shooters.   

Ouch my aching head. 

[DrewKaree]

Boy, that last post of mine must have been the whiskey shooters.   

Ouch my aching head. 

Go find that other thread I made fer ya, ass hat.....er....buddy

[Bones]

You see shmokes, once your mind fully matures, you will likely find yourself seeking out quality music and cast aside this teeny bopper stuff you currently defend and pretend to enjoy.

[shmokes]

Hey, maybe I can get a "what people are saying about me since the sun, moon and earth revolve beneath my feet" quote.

I'd rather you didn't.  You wouldn't be the first, and each time it happens a little piece of my superiority complex dies.

By the way, between the two of us, I would say that one is getting worked up and taking this thread a little personally.  And I'm not much of a Beastie Boys fan.  But regardless, if I'm like nearly everyone else, I will be listening to the same stuff 20 years from now, because that's what people do.  They get old and out of touch and listen to whatever they listened to back when they were cool, which is why 80's stations are so popular in spite of playing, for the most part, the worst music in the history of mankind.  People don't grow up and switch to classic rock.

Seph...you should check out The Honorary Title.  Best.  Emo.  Ever.  They're indie now, but will be huge within the next year or two, I'd wager.

Google quote of the day

The only thing that sustains one through life is the consciousness of the immense inferiority of everybody else, and this is a feeling that I have always cultivated.
  - Oscar Wilde

I'll drink to that.

[DrewKaree]

I've found hints out on the intra-nets of what Nirvana's album is gonna be when they come out of retirement to whore their music for a few more bucks to build those beach houses.  They're naming it after Zakk

[shmokes]

Here are a couple of MySpace pages with some of their music (The Honorary Title).  They're pretty incomplete, though.  Don't include my favorite song and a bunch of other greats.

http://www.myspace.com/thehonorarytitle

http://www.myspace.com/thehonorarytour

[Shape D.]

fall out boy is an amazing band btw, helped pioneer the punk/emo scene as it is today.

their first album came out in 2003. How did they pioneer the punk/emo scene today. Plus they suck.

I'd see the statement if it was blink 182. Even though they suck too.

And fall out boy isn't punk.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Ok, this represents a total musical talent vacuum: http://www.youtube.com/?v=qMWjell2dwQ  (Video)


Hands down. No debate.
mrC

[shmokes]

Are you kidding me?  They make page and plant look like amateurs, both in musical talent and presentation.

[ChadTower]

One of the rites of passage into being old is when you start to complain that the current day's pop music is garbage compared to what you listened to before you passed into being old.

[shmokes]

Ahhh....look at that Zakk....they accept you as one of them now.  That's just sweet.

[RayB]

One of the rites of passage into being old is when you start to complain that the current day's pop music is garbage compared to what you listened to before you passed into being old.

How about arguing that today's pop music is garbage AND SO WAS POP MUSIC I USED TO LISTEN TO?

[Santoro]

That works.

Oh, except for U2. 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

One of the rites of passage into being old is when you start to complain that the current day's pop music is garbage compared to what you listened to before you passed into being old.

I never liked pop music. So I'll never get old.


mrC

[shmokes]

Nah....that just means that you skipped the best part of your life.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Nah....that just means that you skipped the best part of your life.

Personally, I think my life has been enhanced by the weird musical tastes I acquired early on. I'm not saying Pop music is bad...I just never really cared for it. l was lucky enough to be exposed to some really cool stuff, at an early age (13yrs), by a fan of eclectic music.

Although, some of the stuff I do enjoy is considered pop music, so I guess I'm not entirely as 'hip' as I wanna' be, that or the world can be much hipper than I give it credit for. (Radiohead, Beck, etc)


mrC

 

[shmokes]

See...now, there you go.  Radiohead and Beck would slide right into that list of bands I gave earlier.  They are, unquestionably, pop.  If you let a genre title scare you away from something you can miss out on a lot of great stuff.  Sonvolt, Wilco, Old 97's are great bands and they're country.  Look at the cover of Ender's Game.  It looks just like every other Sci Fi hack for backwards, pasty faced people with Star Trek commemorative plates decorating their walls.  But it's a literary classic.

You don't hate pop.  You just filter a lot of it out.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

If you let a genre title scare you away from something you can miss out on a lot of great stuff.  Sonvolt, Wilco, Old 97's are great bands and they're country.

I don't let the genres get to me actually. I generally dislike Young Country-type music, and this over-processed (twangy) crap that's everyone seems to be enamored with. It seems more geared towards coming up with a clever play on words, rather than genuinely interesting music.  However, it hasn't scared me out of the entire genre. I like the Old 97's, My Morning Jacket, Giant Sand, Calexico and the classics...Johnny Cash,  Loretta Lynn, Willie Nelson, Gene Autry, Hank Williams Sr., etc.

I guess I'm more of a purist when it comes to the bulk of my tastes in music. I like folk music from around the world, garage punk music, minimalism in electronica. I try to trace things back to their roots, and I usually find some sort of peace there.

You don't hate pop.  You just filter a lot of it out.

Exactly. I agree with what you've put forth so far, I was just mostly being facetious. I do think things have gotten *way* too over-processed, even though some of the stuff is interesting (Missy Elliot, Outkast, Greenday) ...most of it just becomes a jumbled mess of hook, verse, chorus, verse.


mrC

[ChadTower]

Nah....that just means that you skipped the best part of your life.

WHAM direct nutshot.

Nice one.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Nah....that just means that you skipped the best part of your life.

WHAM direct nutshot.

Nice one.

Heh. You apparently missed the rest of our conversation...and stop thinking about my nuts.

mrC

[ChadTower]

Heh. You apparently missed the rest of our conversation...and stop thinking about my nuts.

No, I didn't miss it at all.  At the time it was said, it was a nice nutshot.  Made me laugh.

That said, your request is granted.  Happily.  I will never again think of your nuts.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

That said, your request is granted.  Happily.  I will never again think of your nuts.

I thought it'd make me happy, but upon reading it...it somehow makes me sad.   

mrC
Won't anyone think of my nuts?

[Stingray]

I gotcha covered. Can I start calling you Speedbags Junior?

-S

[mr.Curmudgeon]

lol...No!



mrC

[Havok]

Neither your parents, nor your kids understand what was so great about Zeppelin, Hendrix, the Beatles or the Who.

[whammoed]

Nah....that just means that you skipped the best part of your life.

WHAM direct nutshot.

Nice one.

I didn't know they were still together, much less kicking people in their junk.

[Santoro]

..... much less kicking people in their junk.

O&A Fan? That's the only place I ever heard it referred to as 'junk.'

[whammoed]

..... much less kicking people in their junk.

O&A Fan? That's the only place I ever heard it referred to as 'junk.'

Not sure what O&A is, but I'm also not sure where I got 'junk' from either.  I believe I've heard it from many different places.

[JackTucky]

Got into this late too.  I've been asking people lately, when did you stop listening to new music?  It seems everyone that I know around my age (39), stopped at some point.  One neighbor who goes to concerts all summer long, stopped out of college.  His favorite?  Rush.  Not much after that.   I like Rush too.  But that's not the end all.

Other people I know, like Bon Jovi.    Most all like Bruce Springsteen.

I listen to about anything.  A gospel song, however, never made it to my play list. 

Lately, I've been listening to Stevie Ray Vaughn.  I like Green Day a lot.  And Nirvana.  and Run DMC.

I listen to a few, gulp, Eminem, 50 cent.

Point is, I think most everyone stops listening to new stuff some time.  Anything after that crap.  Anything before, probably for their parents.

Me, I'm more enlightened 


Art

[JackTucky]

O&A Fan? That's the only place I ever heard it referred to as 'junk.'

I am. 

Art

[RayB]

Exactly. I agree with what you've put forth so far, I was just mostly being facetious. I do think things have gotten *way* too over-processed, even though some of the stuff is interesting (Missy Elliot, Outkast, Greenday) ...most of it just becomes a jumbled mess of hook, verse, chorus, verse.
mrC

That's the Fast Food of music. There's a place for it, just don't consume too much of it.

[Bones]

Almost exclusively the only TV I watch is music videos. Due to this I stay up to date with new music even though I do listen to a radio station that mostly plays music of the 80's and 90's.

Everybody has a music preference. I like rock'n'roll and it's not because I am getting older, it's because rock'n'roll ain't noise pollution and rock'n'roll ain't gunna die.

There is a shortage of rock these days because at some stage a bunch of marketing retards decided that they could pass the crap that bands like Eminem spew forth as music.

Reality check, rap ain't music. It is low intelligence words to the background sound of something I could reproduce with a keyboard that costs roughly the same price as a couple of cartons of beer.

However, I will gladly accept that rock does evolve and as a result enjoy the sound of bands like The Offspring and Greenday.

[Santoro]

Not sure what O&A is, but I'm also not sure where I got 'junk' from either. I believe I've heard it from many different places.

Opie and Anthony, 'shock jocks' from XM radio.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I didn't know they were still together, much less kicking people in their junk.

Awesome. That cracked me up.


mrC

[shmokes]

Of course rap is music.  Most of it sucks donkey balls, but no more, really, than Celine Dion.  And some of it ain't bad.  Rage Against the Machine is hair's breadth away from being rap.  And granted, a lot of Eminem's stuff is as bad as the next rapper, but a lot of it is really good.  If you haven't seen his President Bush protest, check it out:  http://www.gnn.tv/content/viewer.html

For the most part I can't get into hardcore rap.  But there's a lot of hip hop I like.  Gorillaz are absolutely brilliant, IMO.

The noise pollution stuff only shows that it's just you aging.  What do you think, the reason kids like rap and hip hop is because it is noise pollution?  When you were a teenager, I think that your parents would have something to say in the debate of whether Twisted Sister was, or was not "noise pollution".  Everyone from Elvis to The Beatles to Zeppelin to U2 to AC/DC to White Snake to Paula Abdul to MC Hammer to Nirvana to Rage to Gwen Stefani, right on up to Eminem has been "noise pollution" to anybody out of their 20's during the entertainer's heyday.  And the further out of your 20's you are, the more likely the current music is going to sound to you like noise pollution.

Seriously....step out of your shoes for a second and ask yourself if the pattern is just a coincidence.  I know that none of us wants to feel like sheep.  We all look at the pattern and acknowledge that, yes, it does happen that way, but in my case it's different.  I am thoughtful, unlike the rest of the unwashed masses.  It is by the merest of coincidences that I am stepping into the pattern exactly where I am predicted to step in.

You know....it doesn't necessarily mean that the "noise pollution" now is any good.  Maybe it truly isn't.  Maybe what it means is that the music on the radio today does suck.  Just as it sucked in the 90's, 80's, 70's and 60's.  Maybe music has sucked since classical moved out of the mainstream.

I don't think so, though.  I think classical was never in the mainstream.  I think that the mainstream just had no access to professional music.  But as technology has brought music to the masses, the masses have demanded and consumed music that speaks to them.  I don't know what it is.  Maybe young people are desperate for indentity and so are receptive to new things.  Or maybe since all the money in music is to be found with young people, the messages tend to speak to them rather than adults.  But it's no coincidence that you still listen to what you listened to when you were cool. 

[SirPoonga]

Reality check, rap ain't music. It is low intelligence words to the background sound of something I could reproduce with a keyboard that costs roughly the same price as a couple of cartons of beer.

Like you said, it's a preference, and your preferenece isn't rap so you won't think it is good, even the good stuff.

Rap has just as much talent as other music.  You know what it takes to play many rock songs?  How many 70s and 80s bands played while high or drunk!  It doesn't take much skill to belt out power chords.  Heck, I've had my bass for less than a year and I can play along with most classic rock, grunge, or punk.

However, there is a difference between rap and hip hop.
As for low intelligence words, gansta rap give rap as a whole that stereotype.  There are rather intelligent rhymes in hip hop and rap.  However, I don't think hip hop or rap will be as good as it was in the 80s.  Run DMC was very good.  Beastie Boys are very good.
Most good hip hop tells a story, there's rarely repeating lines except for an occational chorus.

I like pretty much any music, though "classic" rock is my favorite.  But look at most classic rock, it's the same verses and chorus repeated over and over.
Examples, "Cotton Fields" by CCR, or half of ZZ Top's or Led Zepplin's or Pink Floyd's songs.

I also have all of the White Stripes, Vines, The Darkeness, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, modern rock/alternative rock.  Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, more good modern rock bands.  I also have modern metal like System of the Down, Korn, etc...  Hmmm, headbangers ball...

I also like Gorillaz, what a cool concept.  If you are going to fabricate a band, why not fabricate the entire band   Plus their stuff is good.

Heh, you should see my playlists.  I always select random play on all my music.  So you will get interesting style changes.  Like motown to rap to classical to blues to punk to jazz to hip hop.
I just had White Stripes switch to Goo Goo Dolls to CCR to AC/DC to Magic Slim and the Teardrops(blues) to John Mellencamp to Eric Clapton to Blue Man Group to Green Day to Gorillaz to Korn to System of the Down to Linkin Park to Lenny Kravitz to Blues Brothers Soundtrack to Lynard Skynard to Andrew W.K. to Queen to Beetles to Doobie Brothers to Everclear to Jimi Hendrix to The Who to Warren Zevon to Tenacious D to Weezer to P.O.D to Rage Against the Machine to Santana to Moby to Shaggy.

I did use to like country, I can tolerate it now.  Country just go so repetative, nothing really new.  I know many will respond, "You liked country, you call that music."  I will ask, have you ever played country?  It runs along the same musical rules as blues, rock, etc... musically there isn't much difference, other than there's fiddles, banjos, and steel guitars   Of course, I will listen to Johnny Cash these days, yet.

Heh, I really need an ipod so I can have everything instead of what I can fit on a CD

But yes, there's alot of fabricated pop songs.  What makes the top 20 of the country, the stuff MTV stuffs down teenager's throats and says is popular.  And that's party due to the fact that kids have more time to listen and vote for songs or requests.  How many of you adults request songs on the radio or just listen to what played?

But then, look at how much fabricated music was in the 80s.  Synths could do most of the work.

I know people who hate the Beatles that "grew up" during that time because they think the Beatles are fabricated pop for the time.  Of course, you listen to the studio recording that have been released they did alot of blues rock stuff that didn't make it to albumns.  Cool stuff.

[Dartful Dodger]

Ashlee Simpson No. 1: Evidence of World Ending

[whammoed]

Not sure what O&A is, but I'm also not sure where I got 'junk' from either. I believe I've heard it from many different places.

Opie and Anthony, 'shock jocks' from XM radio.

OK, I thought it was a radio show, but I don't believe I've ever heard them.  I do believe I've heard Adam Carolla  from the man show use the phrase though.

[Grasshopper]

One thing to bear in mind is that only the good stuff gets remembered. I'm sure if you had listened to the charts for any given week in the 60s or 70s then 99% of the music would have been total crap. But that 99% has been forgotten so we're left remembering the good 1%, and we assume it was all of that quality.

Having said that I do think that the 60s, 70s and (arguably) the early 80s were the heyday for pop & rock music.

[whammoed]

From what I can remember I have always thought the current popular music sucked.  Lets face it, most of what you hear on the pop radio stations is crap and won't stand the test of time.  Now that its 2005 I find myself finally buying music from the 80's that was good, and maybe even some of it wasn't all that great but simply holds nostalgic value.

[Zakk]

I had to take a couple of steps back.

[SirPoonga]

...and a guy with a microphone who talks and yells about killing his ex-girlfriend. 

So it's the subject matter, not the writing, huh?

[Zakk]

Oh of course, as seen in my previous post, his writing is exemplary.

[Santoro]

...and a guy with a microphone who talks and yells about killing his ex-girlfriend.

So it's the subject matter, not the writing, huh?

Since when doesn't subject matter

[Bones]

I have a few NIN CD's. Not exactly the sweetest lyrics but at the right times I enjoy it. Maybe this is similar to that rap crap attraction.

[danny_galaga]

I'm old enough to have bought Led Zeppelin's albums when they were still releasing them. I liked them and still do,

my god! you must be older than fredster 

[ChadTower]

O&A Fan? That's the only place I ever heard it referred to as 'junk.'

It's a regional term from MA, which is where O+A got their start for WAAF, before they were fired for announcing on the air that the Mayor had been killed.

[ClubNinja]

O&A Fan? That's the only place I ever heard it referred to as 'junk.'

It's a regional term from MA, which is where O+A got their start for WAAF, before they were fired for announcing on the air that the Mayor had been killed.

Ah yes.  The good ol' days of Boston radio. 

[ChadTower]

They're on one of the satellite places now, yes?

They could be funny, but clearly had no concept of where the lines of civility lay.  There were times I'd be nearly wetting my pants listening to them, and other times I'd turn off the radio swearing I'd never listen again they were so offensive.

[Shape D.]

a microphone who talks and yells about killing his ex-girlfriend.

Early one mornin' while makin' the rounds
I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down
I went right home and I went to bed
I stuck that lovin' .44 beneath my head

Eminiem isn't the only person to have written about killing someone. you can find examples of it in all kinds of music, rap, country, rock, metal, punk, pop. Yes a lot of eminiem's work is of a darker subject matter, but its still art. Just like you could go watch a romance movie, you can watch a horror movie.

To anyone who doesn't consider rap as music go check out a group called "The Roots". These guys are definitely one of the better groups out there and they use a band instead of rapping to sampled or electronically created music.

P.S. Johnny Cash rocks the house.

[ChadTower]

Hey Joe
where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
Hey Joe
I said where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
I'm goin down to shoot my old lady,
you know I caught her messin' 'round with another man.

[Shape D.]

Janie's got a gun
Janie's got a gun
Her whole world's come undone
From lookin' straight at the sun
What did her daddy do?
What did he put you through?
They said when Janie was arrested
they found him underneath a train
But man, he had it comin' Now that Janie's got a gun
she ain't never gonna be the same.

[RayB]

In the late 70's there was a whole "Disco sucks" movement. Every generation has had cheesy music. Every generation has had a few genuine talents that stand the test of time, along with manufactured "me too" bands.

So Eminem can speak words to a rythm. WOW. In theory, every vocalist is supposed to have the ability to speak words to a rythm, except also do it following a melody (it's called "singing"). I guess that makes Eminem a vocalist who can only do half the job.

[shmokes]

LMAO.....The Megadeth album that I posted a picture of earlier is called "Killing is Our Business" or something to that effect...I can't be bothered to actually look.

Look, I don't deny that Neil Peart, in his virtual office of percussion, is (was) an extraordinarilly tallented drummer.  There's no question.  And Geddy Lee is probably very talented....I'll take your word on his bass playing being second to none, though his high pitched voice is a bit grating.  But their music, for the most part, sucks.  It's, how does one say......hmm....I believe "noise pollution" is the correct term for it.  And much of their lyrics sound like they were lifted from hack fantasy literature.  Though, to be honest, when I was in high school, about 9 or 10 years ago, I really loved Rush.  C'est la vie.  Times change, and so to my tastes.  I finally traded in my Rush greatest hits album a few years ago when I was feeling nastolgic and tried to listen to it.

Point is.....they don't suck.  They suck now.  Just as Eminem couldn't sell a single album 20 years ago and would probably never emerge 20 years from now.  He would suck in either of those times.  And you belong to one of those times.  If your child could rap like Eminem you would be extraordinarily wealthy.  You have a goofy, simplistic idea of what rapping is and think to yourself that all you do is say, "My name is Zakk and I'm here to say..."  That's not it.  Few people can do it well enough to become famous.  Many people try.   I'm so hungry right now I'm shaking and can barely type. 

Your comparisons are absurd.  It's like doing a direct comparison between a Robert Frost and Earnest Hemmingway and faulting Robert Frost for not having the in depth, extraordinary character development you get in a Hemmingway novel.  They're both writers, but they do completely different things.  Neal Peart is extremely talented, but would be laughed off the stage if he tried to rap.  Even if he was interested in rap and practiced and tried to become good he would be laughed off stage.  Because few people can do it well and there's no reason to think that being a good drummer would make you a good rapper.  Or vice versa.

Your ideas are like saying that some famous french chef is talentless based on the fact that you personally hate french cuisine.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

The Megadeth album that I posted a picture of earlier is called "Killing is Our Business"...

It had a subtitle of, "...and Business Is Good."

It was mostly a jab at the U.S. Military-Industrial Complex. The bands name itself is a homage to having to live under constant nuclear threat. Hence their name "Megadeath", which is a riff on the term "Megadeath".

Definition: one million deaths -- usually used as a unit in reference to nuclear warfare.


mrC

[Ed_McCarron]

Nah....that just means that you skipped the best part of your life.

If the best part of my life was deciding "Debbie Gibson or Tiffany" then I've got nothing left to look forward to. 

[Zakk]

Alas, no schmokes.

[Zakk]

The Megadeth album that I posted a picture of earlier is called "Killing is Our Business"...

It had a subtitle of, "...and Business Is Good."

It was mostly a jab at the U.S. Military-Industrial Complex. The bands name itself is a homage to having to live under constant nuclear threat. Hence their name "Megadeath", which is a riff on the term "Megadeath".

Definition: one million deaths -- usually used as a unit in reference to nuclear warfare.


mrC

I think you're reading too much into it, it's actually megaDETH.  I think Dave Mustaine just thought up the first cool sounding thing that came to his mind after he got fired from Metallica.  However, I wish I had your definition when I was a young cool-guy like shmokes.  That would have been a better answer than "huhhh huh huh huuuuh huh... they said deth  huh huh huuuh" 

[ChadTower]

If you look closely at the average lyrical content of a Megadeth song, that answer does make sense.

Countdown to Extinction is pretty much all about war and abuse of power.

Sweating Bullets is still one of my very favorite songs, right along with Symphony of Destruction.

[Zakk]

Damn, damn fine songs.  However, I still wouldn't hold megadeth up as one of the world's greatest bands.  In fact, they're really just a good metal band.  I love 'em, but I was illustrating that I can keep my perspectives straight.

Now off to crank some megadeth.  The other people in the office will love it, I'm sure of it!!!

[ChadTower]

Oh, I hadn't read much of the thread.  I am not claiming Megadeth is one of the world's finest bands.

Lead singer does have some of the world's finest hair, though.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I think you're reading too much into it, it's actually megaDETH.  I think Dave Mustaine just thought up the first cool sounding thing that came to his mind after he got fired from Metallica.

You're kidding, right?

I'm basing this off of what Dave Mustaine, himself, has said. He had stated the band's name was based on the term "Megadeath", when he heard it in a news report re: Nuclear destruction. You also have to look no farther than the cover art, lyrics, and branding imagery surrounding that band. (Btw, I was a fan when I was 14-15yr)

"Peace Sell, But Who's Buying?"

(That's the U.N. complex that's destroyed in the background)

"So Far, So Good...So What?"

(More warfare imagery)

"Greatest Hits"

(How convenient...a mushroom cloud!)

"The System Has Failed"

(U.S. leaders from past and present, line up for payment from their "reaper" character, in front of a crumbling White House.)


If anything, they were an immensely anti-war, anti-establishment band, imaging a horrible post-apocalyptic environment brought on my M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction) and blaming political leaders of all stripes for a lack of compassion and foresight. There is no need to "read into" anything, they worked pretty hard to put it right up in your face.

Tell me you were kidding?!

mrC

EDIT: Spelling error

[Stingray]

Hey, I had both of those albums back when they were new. Yes, vinyl.

No they aren't one of the world's great musical groups, but they're pretty good  if you're into metal. They're about a world and a half better than Eminem, but of course, that's just my opinion.

-S

[ChadTower]

I like Eminem.  His emergence saved an entire musical genre.

[Stingray]

I like Eminem.  His emergence saved an entire musical genre.

You mean the spoiled white kids who think they're cool enough to rap, but are sadly mistaken genre?

-S

[ChadTower]

No, he actually can, and he can write, too.

He did inspire a whole load of idiots who saw 8 Mile too many times, though.

[Zakk]

Haha Yes Mr. C I was kidding, I've followed them since they formed, and I'm well aware of Mustaine's heroin-soaked antiwar musings.  In fact, I've stayed current right up to his war-soaked antiheroin musings (use the man).  All in all, a very enjoyable and longlived group.  Oh, and he does have good hair


Oh and Ch4d, w3rd in th4 h00d has it that Eminem's MOM wrote his lyrics for him.   

[Stingray]

Oh and Ch4d, w3rd in th4 h00d has it that Eminem's MOM wrote his lyrics for him.   

Even if this is not true, I choose to believe it.

-S

[shmokes]

h4x0rs != Gangstas

I don't even know Megadeth.  I missed out on them entirely.  I didn't know they were a Metallica offshoot until about 30 seconds ago.  Although the fact that Mr. C owned at least two of their albums makes me question whether he missed that whole pop music thing afterall 

[pointdablame]

Haha Yes Mr. C I was kidding, I've followed them since they formed, and I'm well aware of Mustaine's heroin-soaked antiwar musings.  In fact, I've stayed current right up to his war-soaked antiheroin musings (use the man).  All in all, a very enjoyable and longlived group.  Oh, and he does have good hair


Oh and Ch4d, w3rd in th4 h00d has it that Eminem's MOM wrote his lyrics for him.   

WTF... rappers dont speak 1337

[Zakk]

WTF... rappers dont speak 1337

Sure they do, they copy it off the net, then claim it as their own while people tell them how talented they are at l33t! 

[ChadTower]

Megadeth is a Metallica offshoot the way Peter Gabriel is a Genesis offshoot.

[RayB]

The only rap I will spend money on is M.C. CHRIS!! YEAH!

[Zakk]

Megadeth is a Metallica offshoot the way Peter Gabriel is a Genesis offshoot.

Now I am going to say something obvious, just to see myself say it.

[danny_galaga]

I like Eminem.