Musical Talent Vacuum

[DYNAGOD]

The huge, sucking, black vacuous void that this world refers to as "popular" music is threatening to devour us all, wiping out all traces of talent as we know it along its path of wanton destruction..

i was just looking at yahoo, and thought i would see what the WORLD thought the TOP 20 things in music are...

i knew it was bad, but somehow you just cant prepare yourself for this kind of thing...


these are not padded stats or juiced up polls, this is what the people are looking at "right now", en masse....

an utter and complete talent vacuum in the mainstream right now..

whats also most striking about this data is what it says for Adult/R&B artists and their obvious lack of market penetration onto the internet.  if i were an artist of this ilk i would be calling my representation wanting to know how my iconic stature had somehow been forgotten to be put forward on what is the largest, single most important forum of mass media on the planet today. How many of the artists on that list are much over drinking age?
Seems as though an entire ERA of musicans were forgotten in the transition from analog to digital..

[Jabba]

Only band there I listen to is Green Day. They have a lot of good songs. Other than them, Meh!

[Bones]

Yeah I tend to agree. I am a little sick of the fabricated bands invented on TV.

Music should be all about hard times, drug abuse, suicide attempts, playing in pubs & getting cut with broken glass, sex with groupies and just generally living as hard as possible. This creates music with passion. 

However, from that list I own CD

[pointdablame]

Green Day, My Chemical Romance, and to a lesser extent Fall Out Boy are NOT talentless.

I agree with you otherwise.

[danny_galaga]

oh. i thought this was going to be a thread about those 'idol' shows (",)

[missioncontrol]

Music should be all about hard times, drug abuse, suicide attempts, playing in pubs & getting cut with broken glass, sex with groupies and just generally living as hard as possible. This creates music with passion. 

I miss the 80's hair bands........

 

that list is just sad

[duffjr]

how is BEP at number 1 but they're song is at number 2?  is my humps a band too?  that has to be the worst song i've ever heard.  it's a sick song that's supposed to entice masturbation but leaves you wondering what lumps are (breast cancer) and humps.  how does a song about lumps and humps make someone famous?  the bum bum song had a cool video.  it wasn't just my bums, my bums, my bums, my bums.

here's a review i found:

5- My Humps- 5/5- hahaahahahahahah was what i said after listening to this. It is one of the most hilarious songs ever. My humps is one of the best songs this yera.

is this what people think these days?

kanye west didn't even make that list?  and he has good songs.   anyone notice the chorus for golddigger is almost the same as i got a woman by ray charles?

[RTSDaddy2]

Dare I say it....it's gonna make me sound old...

People ask what's wrong with kids today, but if you look at (and or listen to) this garbage that's passing for music, you'll KNOW what's wrong.  From Country to Pop to Rock, there's not a blasted one of them that would be worthy of holding the guitar picks or sitting at the pianos of the true legends (Ray Charles, Willie Nelson, Chet Atkins to name a few) of "popular" music.

[missioncontrol]

That's what's wrong with music today there are no awesome guitar solo's. all these so called musicians need to enroll in the Eddie Van Halen school of rock.


call me old but they don't make music like they used to.

[Jabba]

This thread needs more cowbell...

http://www.buckdharma.com/dharmavideo/DharmaGuitReap.wvx
(required Windows Media Player)

(Buck Dharma, one of my all time favourite guitarists, this is what music needs back!!!)

(Here is a great lesson on how to play Don't Fear the Reaper by Buck himself

[Sephroth57]

fall out boy is an amazing band btw, helped pioneer the punk/emo scene as it is today.

[jhanson]

You really need to check out Paranoid Social Club.  They are an awesome band from Portland, ME who just ooze talent.  They just recently came and played in Richmond, and were absolutely amazing.  They are great in concert and in the studio, and are way outside the mainstream.  If you go to their website, you can download a free song ("Wasted", it's about drinking of course).  They also have a couple of live shows on archive.org that you can download too.

Most of their songs are about the three important things in life - women, music, and partying.  They also have a wicked sense of humor that comes through in some of their songs...

[shmokes]

Basically y'all are just old.  BEP are extraordinarily talented, as are many on that list, including Shakira, Eminem, Greenday.  I don't know Fall Out Boy or My Chemical Romance, but I bet they're good.  Mariah Carey is extremely talented, though I can't stand her music.  Even Britney Spears newest album has a lot of talent on it, albeit none of it appears to be her talent. 

Think about it.  Your parents (or at least grand parents) think that Ray Charles, Willie Nelson and Chet Atkins are terrible.  They couldn't listen to five minutes of that garbage.  Just like the teeny boppers of today will carry on about the ---smurfy---, talent-free music their teenagers are listening to.

...old people.

[Zakk]

I disagree.  The best musicians are the ones that study all kinds of music, and incorporate it into their music.  These bands play techno beats, and insipid power chords, laid out by record-label overlords and industry 'music writers'. 

Since I have 4 kids, I get a non-stop barrage of this stuff.  Basically, if someone has a complex sound, it comes from a professional music writer.  If it sounds like it came from drunken teenagers that only ever learned to play 3 chords (if that), then they might have written the songs themselves. 

Long gone are the days of the bands that took it to another level, such as zep, the stones, or the beatles.  The 60's and 70's really WERE the best decades for musical development.  It was uncharted waters, and the bands had to rely on the quality of their music to sell records and tours, not promotion and trend-following.  I love the 80's metal, but it was the start of a horrible degeneration in music, no doubt. 

It has nothing to do with age in this case.  Do you really think the teenagers of today will grow up and say "ach, that band is garbage!  They don't have any of the talent of 50 cent, the Back Street Boys or laffy taffy!"

Find me a band that actually worked their way up through the clubs, and write all their own music, and can move a generation, and I'll give you two of my kids (the ones that listen to ashlee simpson). 

[Harry Potter]

Find me a band that actually worked their way up through the clubs, and write all their own music, and can move a generation, and I'll give you two of my kids (the ones that listen to ashlee simpson). 

Silverchair

[AmericanDemon]

I loved the first Silverchair album, but they degraded from there.  I enjoyed the grunge phase but the quality dropped from there on IMHO

[Harry Potter]

I loved the first Silverchair album, but they degraded from there.  I enjoyed the grunge phase but the quality dropped from there on IMHO

Can't really agree with you on that one. I think the only thing that went wrong with them is they became too popular too fast.

[Zakk]

Right, they became popular, their label told them to become more mainstream, so they copied every other 'grunge' top-40 band.  Don't think I'll put the 'silverchair' box set up on the shelf with the Hendrix one any time soon.  Not a bad band mind you, just nowhere near innovative or original enough to make the grade.  I put them in the same boat as Oasis.  Well, maybe that's a bit too harsh. 

[Harry Potter]

way too harsh

[shmokes]

Modest Mouse, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Dave Matthews Band, The Honorary Title, Audioslave, Weezer, Gorillaz, The Strokes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Outkast, Eminem, Black Eyed Peas, Bloc Party, The Rolling Stones (not really fair, but they did just release a best-selling album, afterall  ), Wilco, Built to Spill, Sublime (R.I.P.),  Blues Traveller, Tool, Fiona Apple....

Do I get all your kids now?

What, are you gonna try to tell me that in 1967 there was no copy-cat crap on the radio.  The problem is, you spend so much time listening to classic rock or 80's stations, which have the exact same format as a top 40's station, except instead of playing the top 40 songs of the moment they play the top 40 songs of a decade or two and play them over and over again.  What does it say about classic rock when you here D'yer Maker three or four times in one day on the same station?  Did 10 or 20 years really produce so little good music that they have to repeat like that?

The radio was filled with crap in the sixties just like it's filled with crap now.  It wasn't a bunch of kids getting music degrees and studying theory.  It was a bunch of rebellious, pot smoking punks, just like today.  And just like today you had standout bands, and filler material.  Icons and one hit wonders.  I know all this and I wasn't even alive.  Impressed?

[Zakk]

I don't really see any of those bands as being able to "move a generation" so I get to keep my kids.

[Ixliam]

I wanna how Tupac keeps making records... he's made more records as a dead guy that when he was alive.

I have no idea what's popular anyway, since I have an iPod I just put what I want on there and listen to that. Only new things I get are the podcasts I'm subscribed to.

[Harry Potter]

Modest Mouse, Rage Against the Machine, Nirvana, Dave Matthews Band, The Honorary Title, Audioslave, Weezer, Gorillaz, The Strokes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Outkast, Eminem, Black Eyed Peas, Bloc Party, The Rolling Stones (not really fair, but they did just release a best-selling album, afterall  ), Wilco, Built to Spill, Sublime (R.I.P.),  Blues Traveller, Tool, Fiona Apple....

90% of that list is excellent.

[shmokes]

Neither your parents, nor your kids understand what was so great about Zeppelin, Hendrix, the Beatles or the Who.  Just like you don't understand their music.  The reason you think that this new music can't "move a generation", whatever that means, is it doesn't move your generation.  Just because the music isn't speaking to your generation doesn't mean it's not speaking to a generation.

And Kelly Clarkson is like nails on a chalkboard.  Your dismissals of those bands is absolutely hillarious, especially when it's followed by your acceptance of the screaching cat, American Idol creation, Kelly Clarkson.  Eminem is a white boy pretending to be a black gansta?  What does that have to do with his talent?  Is tiger woods or venus williams untalented as well, since they are just blacks pretending to be white?  Do the Cars or CCR suck because their music was technically simple?  Nirvana just made good music.  If you'd rather listen to that 10-year old kid who someone posted a video of, that's your thing.  I'll take compelling over technically difficult to play any day of the week.  Rage is a bit boring?  You know what's boring?  LED ZEPPELIN.  I've heard every Led Zepplin song a billion times.  I'm not content with watching the same movies over and over again, or reading the same books over and over again, or listening to the same music over and over again. 

Basically all your complaints come down to "kids these days".  You're old.  Your parents said the same thing about Zeppelin.  You, who are old enough to be my dad, say it about the Yeah Yeah Yeahs.

[Zakk]

Okay, get all worked up shmokes.

[shmokes]

No, probably not.  Yeah Yeah Yeahs are really great, but don't have nearly the mass-market appeal that Zeppelin had.  Those hot headed punks will, however, say that about Nirvana.  They will say it about Dave Matthews Band.  I love how you ignore the majority of my list to make your job easier.  I can't tell you that I've heard every The Who or Jimmy Hendrix song a billion times either.  Not every band, or even great band from any generation will continue to be played to the degree Zeppelin is.  And even if they are it doesn't even have to mean that they're particularly great bands, in and of itself.  Def Leopard, for example, still gets plenty of radiotime. 

I think, by the way, that you are confused about Fiona Apple.  She's not a corporate creation like Britney and Christina.  She's an accomplished pianist who writes all her own music and got discovered by recording her own demos and getting picked up.  And she's damned good.

(and sorry, I don't know how you can make fun of eminem's name when one of your favorites is Megadeath and something tells me you're a fan of the stage clowns Kiss).

[Zakk]

I ignored most of your list because it seemed like you named every band that made a hit record or made it to the charts in the past 10 years.  And to be honest, I thought modest mouse was a cartoon character...

Oh, and for what it's worth, I HATE kiss.   

I gotta say though, I DO understand and appreciate your passion for music, however misguided 
 

[danny_galaga]

I loved the first Silverchair album, but they degraded from there.

[missioncontrol]

I wanna how Tupac keeps making records... he's made more records as a dead guy that when he was alive.

he's not dead that's just a conspiracy 

[pointdablame]

Nirvana was the pinnacle of unskilled musicians.  They were the anti-Halens.  Rage is a bit boring, Dave Mathews is nice college bar music, Eminem is a white boy pretending to be a black gansta, Blues traveller is depressing, Tool is good but would never catch the ear of a broad audience and fiona apple....that's a strange choice to compare to zep.

Those are nice opinons.. but that's what they are. Your opinions.  You come off as if you are "proving" to shmokes and others you are right.. how?  by saying "they are boring"

I'm not going to go off on a huge musical debate here, but I have to agree with shmokes on the fact that you feel that way simply because it isn't YOUR music.  Rage is boring to you, but to many people, they DID define a time...

To many many people, Sublime IS a band of a generation, and one that will not be forgotten.  If you don't like it, fine, but you can't dismiss it because of ignorance.

I'm 21, and through my father I love Pink Floyd, Zep, Yes, The Beatles, etc.  And you're right Zakk, 99.9% of the bands today can't shine the shoes of that level of talent.  However, musical talent didn't just vaporize in the 80's.  The MUSIC INDUSTRY caters to the people, who have grown accustomed to this utter garbage that is in the mainstream today.  That however does NOT mean that all bands today are talentless.  Incubus is a band that springs to mind that has a wide musical range and a ton of talent.  I'll say their last album was not breathtaking, but they are musicians... not pretty faces with powerchords.  There are a LOT of good bands today,  you just need to sort through the rubbish Top 40 radio pushes on you.

A whole lot of "music people" know a lot about THEIR music, but not a lot about music in general... and you're dangerously close to falling into that stereotype.

[Bones]

Music obtained perfection with Cold Chisel, Midnight Oil, The Angels and to some extent the Choir Boys and the Radiators.

That should pretty much finalise this particular debate.

[duffjr]

it said i submitted the post... but it's gone now.  it was a classic too.  very controversial.

[shmokes]

Technical talent is only of limited use anyway.  Is Mariah Carey better than Janis Joplin or Blondie because she has a better voice?  Mariah Carey could be singing Opera if she wanted.  For that matter, why listen to any of them when you can just listen to Opera if you want "the best"?  Are the Smashing Pumpkins or Oingo Boingo better than Led Zeppelin, simply because they are more skilled musicians?  Why not just listen to recordings of the London Symphony Orchestra?  Every member is a master of his/her instrument (most of them are highly skilled at many instruments).  Page and Plant can't touch the classical guitarists playing for any major city's orchestra. 

My list reads nothing like one of every band who's had a hit.  In fact, at least four of them are relatively unknown and have never had a single song on the charts.  All of them are extraordinarily talented.  None of them are corporate creations.  Each band was discovered from obscurity after they worked their way up, playing in clubs and the like (with the exception of Audioslave, which took the musicians from Rage and paired them with the singer from Soundgarden). 

The fact is, for many people the discussion begins and ends with Frank Sinatra, for many it's Buddy Holly, Hank Williams, Run D.M.C., Radiohead, R.E.M., Zeppelin, Tupac, Beatles, Bach, Britney Spears, Chicago, Billy Joel, Nirvana, Dr. Dre, Beastie Boys, Celine Dion....  And in every group you will have myopic individuals convincing themselves that theirs is more special than everybody else's.  How do you compare Hank Williams with Led Zeppelin?  They can only be properly understood in their own context which, frankly, is: how do the teenagers react to it?  I don't care what you tell yourself, the reason you listen to Zeppelin is that is who made a mark on you when it mattered -- when you were a teenager or in your twenties.  Just like 99% of everyone else you opened your mind to new music when you were 13 and closed it when you were 30.  If it wasn't made in that time period it is inferior. 

I know that you say, "Well, yeah, but in my case it's because it's true."  Newsflash....that's what they all say.

[Bones]

Rolling Stones. They span all our glory years and they still suck ass.

[Zakk]

I'm not trying to be on a high horse.

[Trenchbroom]

I know I shouldn't, but I've got to add to this thread.

MY problem with music today is twofold:

1.  Musical talent is gone.  Or, at least the musical talent that I appreciate.  I've always been a fan of musicians, not singers, not producers, etc.  People who could write and perform music that could touch someone's soul. 

Today, most of what I hear is not "music".  It's "musical engineering".  A top 20 song comes on the radio and while listening I can just see in my mind the team of writers, producers, PR men, image designers, etc. working behind the scenes.  All respect is lost at that moment.

People defend performers like Mariah or Clarkson for their singing ability.  Fine.  But when I hear them I always think about Mozart and the singers who performed his Operas over the years.  The singers may have been famous in their day for their amazing singing ability...but Mozart will remain forever.

2.  LCD music--lowest common denominator.  Like TV or movies, much of music today is pure hype/shock value.  Now I know that since Elvis and his pelvis, Jim Morrison with his lizard hanging out onstage, or Alice Cooper and his theatrics, shock value has always been a part of rock music.  But I was a teenager when 2 Live Crew came on the scene, I bought one of their CD's...and I've regretted supporting them and what they represented ever since. 

From the rap thugs and their X-rated prose to all of these skanky women either singing the music or shaking their big a$$es on the music videos, it's all a bunch of crap! 

Combine #1 with #2...sad times for music.  Sad sad sad.

[RayB]

You guys talk like this is all new. No, the only difference is that back when you thought there was good music on the top charts, you were younger and much more tolerant (or ignorant).

The 80's had just as much manufactured "samey" music. Anyone ever heard of "Stock Atkin Waterman"? They pumped out studio-made hits one after the other. Even so-called heavy metal was pretty crappy. (We thought that "singing" was good??)

Labels have ALWAYS stuck to strict "no risk" formulas. It's what makes money. Especially when you control radio.

I also wouldn't put too much trust into so-called "top X charts" either. If millions of people are enjoying a band that isn't on the radio and isn't on a big label, then that band won't show up in the list, regardless how popular they are through other channels.

[shmokes]

shmokes:  I think y'all are just getting old so you can't recognize immense talent in many current artists because you're set in your ways.

Zakk:  I disagree.  Show me one band that worked their way up through the clubs and take my children.

shmokes:  Here is a long but incomplete list of wonderful modern bands who are all self-made.  Give me your children.

Zakk:  They don't count.  They all suck.  To count your name must be Zeppelin or Floyd or Clarkson (the corporate creation who's first hit song was literally kareoke  ). 

shmokes:  They do count, but as I said you are getting old and think of new music the exact same way that your parents thought of Zeppelin.

Zakk:  You've taken this personally and gotten all worked up.  We'll see what you're listening to in 20 years.


I'm not worked up and don't take this personally except that I personally disagree with you.  I don't think I'm disagreeing with you any more forcefully than you are me.  Would it help if I peppered my post with more smileys?  Very few threads ever get me worked up (the last being the death penalty thread, probably).  I just like rhetoric and arguing.

[DrewKaree]

fall out boy is an amazing band btw, helped pioneer the punk/emo scene as it is today.

How do you pioneer what you call punk when you have a "term" for it that came from....well....the pioneers?  And throwing the phrase "as it is today" on the end simply negates the term "pioneer".

That's the most disjointed declaration since FTW. 

[Tailgunner]

I'm old enough to have bought Led Zeppelin's albums when they were still releasing them. I liked them and still do, but I also recognized back then they were making a fortune by ripping off guys like Robert Johnson and making blues palatable to the teenagers of that era. The same could be said of the Stones, Eric Clapton, and others.

I don't think there is any shortage of talented young musicians these days, the problem is the industry has consolidated to the point that they are unwilling to take a risk on bands that don't fit into one of the neat little boxes that have proven to make lots of money. If something does slip through the cracks and succeeds, 20 minutes later the companies have signed a dozen acts that are similar and the market gets saturated. This isn't exactly a new phenomenon, it was in full swing by the time of the 80's hair metal bands.