Author Topic: Fill your gas tanks... NEW: FTC is investigating gas price gouging by refineries (Read 6759 times)

ChadTower · « **Reply #40 on:** September 21, 2005, 01:43:11 pm »

If they don't all end up dead before Christmas.

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #41 on:** September 21, 2005, 02:06:44 pm »

Exactly my thoughts too.

Billions of dollars at stake... small group of people = Bribe/accident central.

ChadTower · « **Reply #42 on:** September 21, 2005, 02:07:56 pm »

It's not billions. It would be billions a DAY.

pointdablame · « **Reply #43 on:** September 21, 2005, 02:13:40 pm »

Quote from: Stingray on September 21, 2005, 01:33:08 pm

Quote from: Dartful Dodger on September 21, 2005, 01:30:50 pm
All that will come out of that is some Federal Trade Commissioner's family is going to have a very Merry Christmas this year.

Cynical, but probably correct.

-S

more like "Cynical, but almost certainly correct."

Actually, I'm not even sure the "almost" should be there.

Stingray · « **Reply #44 on:** September 21, 2005, 02:20:08 pm »

One thing is certain. This:

Quote

urged Congress to refund any excessive profits to consumers

Will never happpen.

-S

DarkKobold · « **Reply #45 on:** September 21, 2005, 02:20:23 pm »

Time to post my favorite links in regards to this matter

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/gasprices.html

And, the UAE, which benefits from the American Gas Consumption
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fancyhotel.html

pointdablame · « **Reply #46 on:** September 21, 2005, 02:22:33 pm »

Quote from: DarkKobold on September 21, 2005, 02:20:23 pm

Time to post my favorite links in regards to this matter

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/gasprices.html

And, the UAE, which benefits from the American Gas Consumption
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fancyhotel.html

geez, who would have guessed that there was some money in oil? heh

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #47 on:** September 21, 2005, 03:20:06 pm »

We only import ~10% of our oil from the Persian Gulf. So those pictures represent a fraction of the money involved.

Look at the Rockefellers if you want to see what American oil money is like. Read about his first house/mini-country.

Did I mention they run Stanley Morgan / Chase / World Bank also (roughly controlling a trillion dollars)

And lately, corporate mergers. They're even putting Great Granddads Standard Oil back together. That family is worth so much that they don't even know how much they're worth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller
"In 2001, it was estimated that in contemporary money Rockefeller would be worth $200 billion."
That money is still around somewhere. Only with ~90 years of interest...

Look at the "foundations" he started. When he was ordered to break up his monopoly of the refinery market, he started them and gave them shares so they were no longer in his name. Only he ran the foundations so he still controlled the companies. It's nuts.

ChadTower · « **Reply #48 on:** September 21, 2005, 03:22:02 pm »

So this guy was making the equivalent of billions of dollars, from oil, before we were oil dependent?

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #49 on:** September 21, 2005, 03:23:17 pm »

yep.

And look at us now.

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #50 on:** September 21, 2005, 03:49:17 pm »

The family was broke until they got into refining oil. He literally would blow up his competitors machinery and take their stuff. When Standard Oil was forced to split, a series of foundations were started (and continue to be started) to move money from one nutshell to the next. For a "short" list of the foundations started by Rockefellers, go here: http://archive.rockefeller.edu/philanthropy/pdf/philanthropy.pdf

Each one of those are allowed to own parts of businesses (which is how Standard Oil was split), while being controlled by the family. The HUGE mansion that was built is now in a National Trust but control of it is still maintained by the family (through a foundation

). When built, they moved a college and rerouted the railroads. That's money. That's power. That happened 75+ years ago. They even had a Vice-President in the family (which ended a gas shortage when he was elected for you conspiracy nuts).

That's what the investigators for the FTC are going up against. There's no way they'll find anything "against" the refineries. Like I said, too much $ at stake. The end result will be: "No problems here. Move along. Did I mention I'm retiring?"

Seriously, the rise of this family is an interesting story.

Skadar · « **Reply #51 on:** September 21, 2005, 03:49:45 pm »

It's hilarious how Americans love to cry "price gouging" when something suddenly seems too expensive for them. Price gouging doesn't exist. There's no such thing and it is not against the law... most certainly in America, the land of democracy and the free market.

Crying "price gouging" is hypocritical and actually kind of embarrassing.

ChadTower · « **Reply #52 on:** September 21, 2005, 03:53:05 pm »

Funny but probably somewhat true.

Stingray · « **Reply #53 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:07:10 pm »

Quote from: Skadar on September 21, 2005, 03:49:45 pm

Crying "price gouging" is hypocritical and actually kind of embarrassing.

How is it hypocritical?

-S

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #54 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:13:33 pm »

Oil isn't a free market. It's a limited, non-renewable resource. I can't go out to my garage and start making oil to compete with BP. Unless you count corn gas (which is the price break for oil IMO)

If I ran a refinery, I'd run gas prices up just under the price of bio diesel to get more of Alaska opened for drilling. Then I'd put a single rig up and complain how expensive it is to run until I got a subsidy. Then I'd hire another accountant to count my profits. Wait... I think that's what's happening...

Good business or con?

ChadTower · « **Reply #55 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:16:44 pm »

Oil is a free market. We don't have to buy gas. If we dislike their prices enough, we should not buy the product.

Stingray · « **Reply #56 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:18:35 pm »

Hey good idea. Then I would have four cars that I could turn into cockpit MAME cabs.

-S

ChadTower · « **Reply #57 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:19:47 pm »

No matter what people tell you, no one is forcing you to buy gas.

Stingray · « **Reply #58 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:21:48 pm »

I guess that's true. I could always quit my job and live in the forest eating berrys, acorns, and drunk squirrels.

-S

ChadTower · « **Reply #59 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:25:38 pm »

You could. Move to Vermont.

Stingray · « **Reply #60 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:30:27 pm »

I don't have to move. I already live in a forest full of drunken squirrels.

-S

ChadTower · « **Reply #61 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:31:21 pm »

will a car run on drunken squirrel blood? You could eat the squirrels and run your car on the blood.

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #62 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:35:39 pm »

There was a link some time back where someone had PC screens on their windows.

ChadTower · « **Reply #63 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:37:28 pm »

Designing your life around needing gas is a choice. Most people design their life around television, too. Can't say TV is a necessity.

Stingray · « **Reply #64 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:40:23 pm »

Not all parts of the country have public transportation. Most parts have none at all.

-S

ChadTower · « **Reply #65 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:45:20 pm »

No, but where you live is a choice. Where you work is a choice. These things are not mandated by some higher power.

Live too far from viable places to get food? Move closer. Can't find a job in your field where you live? Change your field.

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #66 on:** September 21, 2005, 04:58:44 pm »

Cities aren't designed that way. There aren't enough places to live close enough for everyone to walk to work. It would require a rework of "American Culture" to get away from oil. Starting with the sub 25mpg vehicles.

ChadTower · « **Reply #67 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:00:00 pm »

You are not responsible for American culture. You are responsible for yourself.

So far, these are all excuses. We are not required to buy gas.

mrhowell · « **Reply #68 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:04:37 pm »

I'm building a small block mopar and if I get 12 MPG I'll be happy.

Dartful Dodger · « **Reply #69 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:11:25 pm »

I know three people that live in the city and they have never had a car, two of them don't even have licenses. They take a train, bike, and walk to get around. These aren't unemployed idiots either, ones a lawyer, ones a programmer, and the other... okay, so the last guy is an unemployed idiot.

whammoed · « **Reply #70 on:** September 21, 2005, 05:16:11 pm »

Even if you don't drive, you will still pay the price. When gas/oil goes up, everything goes up. Plastics are made from oil, it takes gas to drive your crap to the store, deliver your mail, etc, etc, etc...
Suppose you could go off the grid and live on the fat of the land

ChadTower · « **Reply #71 on:** September 21, 2005, 07:21:57 pm »

Those things are made from crude oil... crude oil hasn't gone up in any reasonable proportion to gasoline.

danny_galaga · « **Reply #72 on:** September 22, 2005, 05:31:53 am »

Quote from: ChadTower on September 21, 2005, 09:03:49 am

Quote from: Minwah on September 21, 2005, 07:24:01 am
I think you gas-guzzling Americans should be charged a crapload more, it might discourage so many V8's....

Believe it or not, there aren't many V8s on the road here. There is a huge proportion of large V6s but the V6s are powerful enough now that you have to go out of your way to buy a V8. Even larger trucks and sports cars often come with a V6 if you don't pay for the upgrade to a V8.

unless you buy a v10

ChadTower · « **Reply #73 on:** September 22, 2005, 07:34:25 am »

Other than heavy duty trucks and sports cars expensive enough that you don't care how much gas costs, there are no v10s here.

Stingray · « **Reply #74 on:** September 22, 2005, 12:33:42 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on September 22, 2005, 07:34:25 am

Other than heavy duty trucks and sports cars expensive enough that you don't care how much gas costs, there are no v10s here.

Dodge light duty (1/2 ton) trucks have an available V-10 option actually.

-S

paigeoliver · « **Reply #75 on:** September 22, 2005, 12:43:25 pm »

Quote

Historically, Nichols said, the markup between the price of a gallon of crude and a gallon of gasoline is about 85 to 90 cents a gallon, including refining, distribution and taxes.

How can they really call prices from the last year alone "historically".

Gas was $1 a gallon 6 years ago, Does that mean the crude was 10 cents per gallon?

ChadTower · « **Reply #76 on:** September 22, 2005, 01:01:15 pm »

Quote from: Stingray on September 22, 2005, 12:33:42 pm

Dodge light duty (1/2 ton) trucks have an available V-10 option actually.

To most people, that is a heavy duty truck. Heavier than they would ever buy for themselves, without some RV to pull.

Stingray · « **Reply #77 on:** September 22, 2005, 01:20:40 pm »

A half ton is just a standard full sized truck. There are more full sized trucks on the road than there are cars around here.

-S

paigeoliver · « **Reply #78 on:** September 22, 2005, 01:56:45 pm »

Those V-10 trucks get 15 miles to the gallon, which is just barely at the lower end of the spectrum for trucks.

Matter of fact, plenty of vehicles with much smaller engines get worse mileage.

1996 Ford Econoline van E250. V6 14 MPG

Anything full size 4 wheel drive from the 90s gets mileage worse than that (and some of the compact ones come close).

Heck, go buy a 4 cylinder Jeep, they get a spanking 19 miles to the gallon.

ChadTower · « **Reply #79 on:** September 22, 2005, 01:59:46 pm »

Wouldn't a V10 be diesel?


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