Fill your gas tanks... NEW: FTC is investigating gas price gouging by refineries

[Crazy Cooter]

Crude jumped $4.25 a barrel in fear of Rita.

I'm guestimating fuel to be $0.25 a gallon more come morning (or now depending on your station).

--- edit ---
link to story:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9424585/

[Daniel270]

I gassed up 2 days ago...  was $2.69 a gallon then 

[daywane]

filled up at 2.65 a gal. just a few minets ago

[Stingray]

Filled up for $2.39 on the way to work today. Lowest prices I've seen in some time.

-S

[ChadTower]

Okay, WTF.  It is still $2.95 here.

[Stingray]

The gasoline gods smile on Oklahoma.

-S

[Havok]

He sure as hell hates New York. We just got down to $2.99

[Stingray]

He sure as hell hates New York. We just got down to $2.99

The gasoline gods are trying to teach you New Yorkers a lesson. I'd like to tell you what the lesson is, but that would violate my non-disclosure agreement.

-S

[ChadTower]

I believe the gasoline gods made their message pretty clear to New York when they flew jetliners full of their own product into the World Trade Towers.

[missioncontrol]

We aren't even back to pre-Katrina prices in NC. pleas no more gas hikes I don't wnat to get rid of my truck. then I'd have to order all new stickers for the windows.

[ChadTower]

We're no where near preKatrina prices, nor will we ever be.  Gas always goes up, but it never goes down to where it was.  Ever.

[Stingray]

I think it's actually a little cheaper than it was pre-katrina here, but I don't usually watch gas prices closely enough to say for sure. I'm thinking it was $2.45ish.

-S

[missioncontrol]

matbe I should get a bicycle and paper route to pay for my gas to go to work

[markb]

A Washington Post article from a couple of months ago (though still perfectly valid) shows where the money is going.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/28/AR2005072802085.html

We've been getting screwed in the UK for years from the taxes we pay on fuel, now it looks like the whole world is being screwed by the oil industry.
Sure there is a supply and demand problem but why should they be bothered about fixing it when their profits are going up?

[ChadTower]

Sure there is a supply and demand problem but why should they be bothered about fixing it when their profits are going up?

Well, we keep voting oil barons into governmental power, so we deserve the shafting they give us.

[Stingray]

I voted against the current oil barron twice.

-S

[ChadTower]

It is not possible to vote against someone in the US election system.

You can vote for someone else, but you cannot vote against someone.  Apparently not enough people voted for someone else. 

[missioncontrol]

it allways has to become political

[Stingray]

I had a political reply all typed up. I hit submit and saw:

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Then I saw:

it allways has to become political  Sad

I'm off to the cheesecake threads

Always the voice of reason. I'm following MissionC to the Cheesecake threads.


-S

[Crazy Cooter]

$0.20 - $0.26 rise in my area.

If you haven't read the story of the Rockefeller family, you should.  It's umm... interesting.

[whammoed]

Got it today for 2.659.  Tampa Florida.
Whats with the @#$% 9/10 of a cent crap anyway?  How did that get started?

[Minwah]

You're all daisies!  (edit: hey that autocensor is not fair)

Based on the first price given ($2.69) I equate that to

[danny_galaga]

I gassed up 2 days ago...

[ChadTower]

I think you gas-guzzling Americans should be charged a crapload more, it might discourage so many V8's....

Believe it or not, there aren't many V8s on the road here.  There is a huge proportion of large V6s but the V6s are powerful enough now that you have to go out of your way to buy a V8.  Even larger trucks and sports cars often come with a V6 if you don't pay for the upgrade to a V8.

[Stingray]

Gas went up by 11 cents a gallon here overnignt. Here comes Rita and another round of big oil price gouging.

-S

[ChadTower]

Up by 11, down by 4.

[Minwah]

Believe it or not, there aren't many V8s on the road here.  There is a huge proportion of large V6s but the V6s are powerful enough now that you have to go out of your way to buy a V8.  Even larger trucks and sports cars often come with a V6 if you don't pay for the upgrade to a V8.

My point exactly!  Hardly anyone has V6's here...

[ChadTower]

With engines such as they are, the V6 is unnecessary for your average car.  SUVs should be far more limited.  V6s are necessary for trucks, sure, but can't say that many of those V6 Mitsubishis actually need a V6.

[Minwah]

Gas went up by 11 cents a gallon here overnignt. Here comes Rita and another round of big oil price gouging.

That's only just over 1p per litre...

Ours went up (not sure exactly how much recently, maybe 5p) but nearly 20p (per litre) over the last year.  We get ripped off left, right & centre.  The only people that do well in Britain are criminals and scroungers.  I'm already techincally a criminal but I'm considering becoming a money-making one - crime pays.

As you can tell I'm in a moaning mood at the mo.   

[Stingray]

Yeah, okay your gas costs more. Granted. However I live in Oklahoma where beer is 3.2% alcohol. You live in the land where good beer flows like water (please don't contradict me and ruin my mental image of your fine country).

-S

[ChadTower]

Last time I checked he does not live in Canada.

[Stingray]

I was thinking of Great Britain, but the same applies to Canada.

-S

[ChadTower]

I have never had good British beer, and my wife's family is from Dublin and throws British food around like it's edible.

[Crazy Cooter]

Minwah, what companies run your refineries?

[ChadTower]

Who exactly would run such an investigation?

[Crazy Cooter]

Who exactly would run such an investigation?

Someone that will take bribes I'm sure  .  There's too much at stake for an investigation to show any wrong-doing.

[Stingray]

Who exactly would run such an investigation?

The CEO of Texaco.

-S

[Crazy Cooter]

Whoa.

[Dartful Dodger]

All that will come out of that is some Federal Trade Commissioner's family is going to have a very Merry Christmas this year.

[Stingray]

All that will come out of that is some Federal Trade Commissioner's family is going to have a very Merry Christmas this year.

Cynical, but probably correct.

-S

[ChadTower]

If they don't all end up dead before Christmas.

[Crazy Cooter]

Exactly my thoughts too.

Billions of dollars at stake... small group of people = Bribe/accident central.

[ChadTower]

It's not billions.  It would be billions a DAY.

[pointdablame]

All that will come out of that is some Federal Trade Commissioner's family is going to have a very Merry Christmas this year.

Cynical, but probably correct.

-S

more like "Cynical, but almost certainly correct."

Actually, I'm not even sure the "almost" should be there.

[Stingray]

One thing is certain. This:

urged Congress to refund any excessive profits to consumers

Will never happpen.

-S

[DarkKobold]

Time to post my favorite links in regards to this matter

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/gasprices.html

And, the UAE, which benefits from the American Gas Consumption
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fancyhotel.html

[pointdablame]

Time to post my favorite links in regards to this matter

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/gasprices.html

And, the UAE, which benefits from the American Gas Consumption
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/fancyhotel.html

geez, who would have guessed that there was some money in oil? heh

[Crazy Cooter]

We only import ~10% of our oil from the Persian Gulf.  So those pictures represent a fraction of the money involved.

Look at the Rockefellers if you want to see what American oil money is like.  Read about his first house/mini-country.

Did I mention they run Stanley Morgan / Chase / World Bank also (roughly controlling a trillion dollars)

And lately, corporate mergers.  They're even putting Great Granddads Standard Oil back together.  That family is worth so much that they don't even know how much they're worth.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockefeller
"In 2001, it was estimated that in contemporary money Rockefeller would be worth $200 billion."
That money is still around somewhere.  Only with ~90 years of interest...

Look at the "foundations" he started.  When he was ordered to break up his monopoly of the refinery market, he started them and gave them shares so they were no longer in his name.  Only he ran the foundations so he still controlled the companies.  It's nuts.

[ChadTower]

So this guy was making the equivalent of billions of dollars, from oil, before we were oil dependent?

[Crazy Cooter]

yep.

And look at us now.

[Crazy Cooter]

The family was broke until they got into refining oil.  He literally would blow up his competitors machinery and take their stuff.  When Standard Oil was forced to split, a series of foundations were started (and continue to be started) to move money from one nutshell to the next.  For a "short" list of the foundations started by Rockefellers, go here: http://archive.rockefeller.edu/philanthropy/pdf/philanthropy.pdf

Each one of those are allowed to own parts of businesses (which is how Standard Oil was split), while being controlled by the family.  The HUGE mansion that was built is now in a National Trust but control of it is still maintained by the family (through a foundation ).  When built, they moved a college and rerouted the railroads.  That's money.  That's power.  That happened 75+ years ago.  They even had a Vice-President in the family (which ended a gas shortage when he was elected for you conspiracy nuts).

That's what the investigators for the FTC are going up against.  There's no way they'll find anything "against" the refineries.  Like I said, too much $ at stake.  The end result will be: "No problems here.  Move along.  Did I mention I'm retiring?"

Seriously, the rise of this family is an interesting story.

[Skadar]

It's hilarious how Americans love to cry "price gouging" when something suddenly seems too expensive for them.  Price gouging doesn't exist.  There's no such thing and it is not against the law... most certainly in America, the land of democracy and the free market.

Crying "price gouging" is hypocritical and actually kind of embarrassing.

[ChadTower]

Funny but probably somewhat true.

[Stingray]

Crying "price gouging" is hypocritical and actually kind of embarrassing.

How is it hypocritical?

-S

[Crazy Cooter]

Oil isn't a free market.  It's a limited, non-renewable resource.  I can't go out to my garage and start making oil to compete with BP.  Unless you count corn gas (which is the price break for oil IMO)

If I ran a refinery, I'd run gas prices up just under the price of bio diesel to get more of Alaska opened for drilling.  Then I'd put a single rig up and complain how expensive it is to run until I got a subsidy.  Then I'd hire another accountant to count my profits.  Wait... I think that's what's happening...

Good business or con?

[ChadTower]

Oil is a free market.  We don't have to buy gas.  If we dislike their prices enough, we should not buy the product. 

[Stingray]

Hey good idea. Then I would have four cars that I could turn into cockpit MAME cabs.

-S

[ChadTower]

No matter what people tell you, no one is forcing you to buy gas. 

[Stingray]

I guess that's true. I could always quit my job and live in the forest eating berrys, acorns, and drunk squirrels.

-S

[ChadTower]

You could.  Move to Vermont.

[Stingray]

I don't have to move. I already live in a forest full of drunken squirrels.

-S

[ChadTower]

will a car run on drunken squirrel blood?  You could eat the squirrels and run your car on the blood.

[Crazy Cooter]

There was a link some time back where someone had PC screens on their windows.

[ChadTower]

Designing your life around needing gas is a choice.  Most people design their life around television, too.  Can't say TV is a necessity.

[Stingray]

Not all parts of the country have public transportation. Most parts have none at all.

-S

[ChadTower]

No, but where you live is a choice.  Where you work is a choice.  These things are not mandated by some higher power.

Live too far from viable places to get food?  Move closer.  Can't find a job in your field where you live?  Change your field.

[Crazy Cooter]

Cities aren't designed that way.  There aren't enough places to live close enough for everyone to walk to work.  It would require a rework of "American Culture" to get away from oil.  Starting with the sub 25mpg vehicles.

[ChadTower]

You are not responsible for American culture.  You are responsible for yourself.

So far, these are all excuses.  We are not required to buy gas.

[mrhowell]

I'm building a small block mopar and if I get 12 MPG I'll be happy.

[Dartful Dodger]

I know three people that live in the city and they have never had a car, two of them don't even have licenses.  They take a train, bike, and walk to get around.  These aren't unemployed idiots either, ones a lawyer, ones a programmer, and the other... okay, so the last guy is an unemployed idiot.

[whammoed]

Even if you don't drive, you will still pay the price.  When gas/oil goes up, everything goes up.  Plastics are made from oil, it takes gas to drive your crap to the store, deliver your mail, etc, etc, etc...
Suppose you could go off the grid and live on the fat of the land

[ChadTower]

Those things are made from crude oil... crude oil hasn't gone up in any reasonable proportion to gasoline.

[danny_galaga]

I think you gas-guzzling Americans should be charged a crapload more, it might discourage so many V8's....

Believe it or not, there aren't many V8s on the road here.  There is a huge proportion of large V6s but the V6s are powerful enough now that you have to go out of your way to buy a V8.  Even larger trucks and sports cars often come with a V6 if you don't pay for the upgrade to a V8.

unless you buy a v10 

[ChadTower]

Other than heavy duty trucks and sports cars expensive enough that you don't care how much gas costs, there are no v10s here.

[Stingray]

Other than heavy duty trucks and sports cars expensive enough that you don't care how much gas costs, there are no v10s here.

Dodge light duty (1/2 ton) trucks have an available V-10 option actually.

-S

[paigeoliver]

Historically, Nichols said, the markup between the price of a gallon of crude and a gallon of gasoline is about 85 to 90 cents a gallon, including refining, distribution and taxes.

How can they really call prices from the last year alone "historically".

Gas was $1 a gallon 6 years ago, Does that mean the crude was 10 cents per gallon?

[ChadTower]

Dodge light duty (1/2 ton) trucks have an available V-10 option actually.

To most people, that is a heavy duty truck.  Heavier than they would ever buy for themselves, without some RV to pull.

[Stingray]

A half ton is just a standard full sized truck. There are more full sized trucks on the road than there are cars around here.

-S

[paigeoliver]

Those V-10 trucks get 15 miles to the gallon, which is just barely at the lower end of the spectrum for trucks.

Matter of fact, plenty of vehicles with much smaller engines get worse mileage.

1996 Ford Econoline van E250. V6 14 MPG

Anything full size 4 wheel drive from the 90s gets mileage worse than that (and some of the compact ones come close).

Heck, go buy a 4 cylinder Jeep, they get a spanking 19 miles to the gallon.

[ChadTower]

Wouldn't a V10 be diesel?

[Stingray]

No. It's the same gasoline engine that Dodge uses in the Viper.

-S

[danny_galaga]

Other than heavy duty trucks and sports cars expensive enough that you don't care how much gas costs, there are no v10s here.

must all be in NC then. seems to be all i saw were dodge rams and those humungous ford thingos (f350 or whatever)...

[daywane]

It's hilarious how Americans love to cry "price gouging" when something suddenly seems too expensive for them.

[daywane]

Not all parts of the country have public transportation. Most parts have none at all.

-S

none here in lawrenceburg KY.
you can call for a cab  but it will not show up. I was a Cabby in AZ, I would not show up eather. drive 25 to 30 miles minimum for a $5.00 fair.

[Crazy Cooter]

You are not responsible for American culture.  You are responsible for yourself.

So far, these are all excuses.  We are not required to buy gas.

We are if we want cities to survive.  Look at a major city and how many people commute each morning.  They can't all move into the city.  There aren't enough places to live.  They all can't work within walking distance from their home, there aren't enough places to work.

America isn't setup to run without gas.  To do what we do, we are required to buy gas.  Where does your food come from?  Where does your milk come from?  Clothes?  Wood?  Everything is shipped.  Everything needs gas.  Even if you're not filling your tank, you're still buying gas indirectly.  Every 18-wheeler on the road has a lading ticket in it and at the bottom is a line "Fuel Surcharge".

[Jess--]

LOL

You guys complaining that you are having to pay $2.65 a gallon

over here in the uk we are paying the equivalent of $6.00 a gallon.....

Hmmm now why is it that we tend to use smaller cars here than in the states

[missioncontrol]

so are you saying since you guys drive smaller cars your price is higher and since we drive big cars our price is lower???

 

[Jess--]

No

I am saying we drive smaller cars with smaller engines here because petrol (or gasoline) is too damned expensive.

Of course you can do what i do which is run a nice V8 on LPG (in my case Range Rover Classic V8 3.9)

EDIT
LPG = Liquified Petroleum Gas OR Liquified Propane Gas (depends where you look it up) costs us around 60% less than petrol (but gives around 20% worse performance)

[missioncontrol]

Glad you edited that I was going to ask what LPG was.......

hmmmm maybe I should get the ol Bronco to run on LPG then when I run out of gas I can allways take the tank from my neighbors grill

[Jess--]

lol that tank wouldnt get you far.

the tanks I use (90 Litre main tank and 60 Litre second tank) will give me a range of around 350 miles

Mind you I do know of at least one person that used a tank like that to get to work when we had the fuel blockades here a few years ago (he just shoved the pipe into his air filter and turned the tank on) got him to work and back when no one else could get there though.