Katrina Thread / New Orleans

[fredster]

What I really don't understand though, is how people can break into pawnshops, take weapons and ammunition, and opening fire on disaster relief personnel.

Why? Because they are freaking idiots that do not care about anyone but themselves.

Why? Because nobody is there to stop them.

Why? Because they have no life or morals

Why? Because they can now and nobody is going to stop them.

I don't think that we are seeing a lot of people doing this. I really don't.

[Dexter]

Which makes sense if everybody was acting the same. But there are countless thousands (some reports say up to 200,000 people) the VAST majority of whom aren't raping, murdering etc. who urgently need help.

The tsunami refugees weren't told to find a helping hand at the ends of their arms, can the citizens of the worlds only superpower not expect their government to come to their rescue, like they allegedly did for the people of eye-raq? Hopefully the moderate republicans wil realise now that saving people from peril is not what the bush regieme is about, be it in tikrit or new orleans.

[Edgedamage]

For some people, there just wasn't anywhere to go...a lot of the poor in NO just don't have cars (or enough "bikes" for their family, come on!)

They had DAYS of warning.  It doesn't take days to walk out of the city.  We're talking their lives and the lives of their children.  "I don't have a car" or "there isn't a bus today" is not acceptable.  I'd carry my kids on foot out of the city if that was the only option, but I tend to be tremendously conservative when it comes to things like this. 

I will not get past the people who know a disaster is coming and let things like lack of automotive transportation stop them from evacuating.  This doesn't apply only here, it can be said of pretty much all major storms we get in the US.

I'm getting sick of hearing television people refer to this as "our tsunami".  More than 200,000 people died in that tsunami.  That's like both atomic bombs combined. 

Even the poorest folks I have seen still have wagons and strollers for their kids. No matter what if I was in their shoes I would of packed up the kids in the stroller and the wagon and started walking. If I lived there my reasons for leaving would be:
#1 hurricane
#2 city below sea level
#3 Aging levee system

[billf]

That kind of crap needs to be taken out of the gene pool asap.

Exactly.

[Ed_McCarron]

That kind of crap needs to be taken out of the gene pool asap.

Hey, sometimes you need to toss some chlorine in the gene pool.

Especially considering these miscreants aer typically from the shallow end.

[TheVengeance]

You know what I'm thinking!

What makes New Orleans so different from any other city in the southeast destroyed by a hurricane? I mean seriously, can't they build a raft or something? Are they truly that helpless?

[fredster]

A lot of people couldn't leave.

[Edgedamage]

No city is safe. Look what happend in one hour here.
http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20050819-003/page.asp

[Dexter]

You know what I'm thinking!

What makes New Orleans so different from any other city in the southeast destroyed by a hurricane? I mean seriously, can't they build a raft or something? Are they truly that helpless?

So lets get this straight. Leave the bit of dry terra firma they are surviving on to build a raft to float off looking for food, water and medicine that isn't there yet? And go where exactly? You do know the topography of the area right??

[TheVengeance]

You know what I'm thinking!

What makes New Orleans so different from any other city in the southeast destroyed by a hurricane? I mean seriously, can't they build a raft or something? Are they truly that helpless?

So lets get this straight. Leave the bit of dry terra firma they are surviving on to build a raft to float off looking for food, water and medicine that isn't there yet? And go where exactly? You do know the topography of the area right??

I'm saying they're not completely HELPLESS, Dexter! They won't even do anything to help themselves.

How many hurricanes have you been through? You know, they're not the end of the world, as some would predict.

AS FOR WHAT they can do, hell! They can do what we do here. Build a raft, or some floating device, check for others who may need help or begin forming a TEAM to HELP others. With NUMBERS Dexter, the possibilities are ENDLESS!

DON'T JUST DO NOTHING!

[Zakk]

Oh yeah, BTW, whats the latest from Britain, France, Canada, or Germany? How about Spain, Australia, or Poland? Where are they when we need assistance? Whats that you say? They're to BUSY to help!!?

Read some of the above posts.

[Setabs]

just for those saying how disconnected the government is.  Bush just said the rescue efforts progress so far is unacceptable.

The probably is communication.  There is no solid line of communication.  The closest thing is the media in NO.  But that doesn't help relief efforts.  Even in Baton Rogue the red cross has had problems communicating w/ the red cross down the line.

another example.

Fox news had a nurse on the phone that said they had no food or water.  They had evacuated almost all of the patients.  They had no help from local, state or fed. gov.  and that they had not had any violence at the hospital.  Then on ABC someone from the hospital said they had NOT evacuated the hospital and HAD violence brought against them.

Anyone no what happen to the 4,000+ national gaurds the state officals said were going to NO yesterday morning?  I woke up last night and from what I gathered only a few had trickled in.

You know what I'm thinking!

What makes New Orleans so different from any other city in the southeast destroyed by a hurricane? I mean seriously, can't they build a raft or something? Are they truly that helpless?

The Flooding.  Plain and simple.  No truly easy way in or out.  Plus if there is any other flooding in LA it doesn't help remeber its the Bayou.  The gas shortage that is happening and poweroutages don't help either.

[Stingray]

Obviously I can only speak for myself here, so that's what I'm doing.

If I were stranded on my roof, I would be busy dismantling said roof and using the materials to build a raft and at least get to dry land. Not sure what I'd do when I got there. Start walking I guess. What I would not do is stay in NO with the whole collapse of civilization happening all around me. Again, this is just me. I have sufficient tools and fasteners always on hand in my house that tearing apart the roof or walls and using the materials to build a usable raft would be within the realm of possiblity for me.

-S

[Zakk]

Obviously I can only speak for myself here, so that's what I'm doing.

If I were stranded on my roof, I would be busy dismantling said roof and using the materials to build a raft and at least get to dry land. Not sure what I'd do when I got there. Start walking I guess. What I would not do is stay in NO with the whole collapse of civilization happening all around me. Again, this is just me. I have sufficient tools and fasteners always on hand in my house that tearing apart the roof or walls and using the materials to build a usable raft would be within the realm of possiblity for me.

-S

Yeah, but youre a crazy mountainman.  Not a cashier in NO who's never seen a hammer before

[Setabs]

You know what I'm thinking!

What makes New Orleans so different from any other city in the southeast destroyed by a hurricane? I mean seriously, can't they build a raft or something? Are they truly that helpless?

 
So lets get this straight. Leave the bit of dry terra firma they are surviving on to build a raft to float off looking for food, water and medicine that isn't there yet? And go where exactly? You do know the topography of the area right??

I'm saying they're not completely HELPLESS, Dexter! They won't even do anything to help themselves.

How many hurricanes have you been through? You know, they're not the end of the world, as some would predict.

AS FOR WHAT they can do, hell! They can do what we do here. Build a raft, or some floating device, check for others who may need help or begin forming a TEAM to HELP others. With NUMBERS Dexter, the possibilities are ENDLESS!

DON'T JUST DO NOTHING!

There are people doing that.


They are alot of people that are trying to leave but can't.  They could walk but would you leave the place that you have a small amount of food and water.  To risk walking to the next town that has a shelter thats probably at least a full days walk away.  The people that don't have food or water just don't know where to go.  Fox has been on a bridge probably 1/4 mile away from superdome on I-10 for acouple of days with people w/ no food or water.   The worst part for those people is watching all the cars and convoys go by and not getting any info or supplies.

Obviously I can only speak for myself here, so that's what I'm doing.

If I were stranded on my roof, I would be busy dismantling said roof and using the materials to build a raft and at least get to dry land. Not sure what I'd do when I got there. Start walking I guess. What I would not do is stay in NO with the whole collapse of civilization happening all around me. Again, this is just me. I have sufficient tools and fasteners always on hand in my house that tearing apart the roof or walls and using the materials to build a usable raft would be within the realm of possiblity for me.

-S

So with flood waters rising you would grab your trusty hand saw box of nails and a hammer?  In the areas flooded it took any where from 30 min. to a few hours to have the water reach the top of peoples roof's.

[Stingray]

Obviously I can only speak for myself here, so that's what I'm doing.

If I were stranded on my roof, I would be busy dismantling said roof and using the materials to build a raft and at least get to dry land. Not sure what I'd do when I got there. Start walking I guess. What I would not do is stay in NO with the whole collapse of civilization happening all around me. Again, this is just me. I have sufficient tools and fasteners always on hand in my house that tearing apart the roof or walls and using the materials to build a usable raft would be within the realm of possiblity for me.

-S

So with flood waters rising you would grab your trusty hand saw box of nails and a hammer?  In the areas flooded it took any where from 30 min. to a few hours to have the water reach the top of peoples roof's.

Yes, that's exactly what I would do, but like I said, that's just me. Are you saying that you would just wait there to die? Actually now that I think about it I wouldn't have to build a raft most likely. I own a small fishing boat. I guess I'd just use that provided it was locatable by the time I realized that I needed it.

-S

[TheVengeance]

Yes, that's exactly what I would do, but like I said, that's just me. Are you saying that you would just wait there to die? Actually now that I think about it I wouldn't have to build a raft most likely. I own a small fishing boat. I guess I'd just use that provided it was locatable by the time I realized that I needed it.

-S

That's what I'm saying!

They're standing on their rooftops thinking when the water goes away, they move back inside. That's just not going to happen. Salvage what you can, and get the hell out. FIND HELP, RELIEF, and what have you.

And like I said, when you find a few people all willing to help one another , it's amazing what can be done/found. The problem is , this all needs to be done locally. There really isn't much we can do from outside anyway.

[Dexter]

If I were stranded on my roof, I would be busy dismantling said roof and using the materials to build a raft and at least get to dry land. Not sure what I'd do when I got there. Start walking I guess. What I would not do is stay in NO with the whole collapse of civilization happening all around me. Again, this is just me. I have sufficient tools and fasteners always on hand in my house that tearing apart the roof or walls and using the materials to build a usable raft would be within the realm of possiblity for me.
-S

As would most of us. Problem is though, most of the people I've seen been plucked from their roofs don't look like the raft building type unfortunately. Also, if you're not confident of your raft building abilities, seeing dead bodies float past you probably won't have you rushing to make rafts.

just for those saying how disconnected the government is. Bush just said the rescue efforts progress so far is unacceptable.

Whats unacceptable is bushes procrastination and refusal to accept foreign aid, as well as being AWOL once again. Match the timelines in this link belwo to the national catastrophe that unfolded. Was it a two day 'my pet goat' contemplative state he was in, or just not giving a damn? Nero fiddles once again while rome burns:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4550031

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4500685

For those rushing to blindly support their *resident as usual, just remember there could be another terrorist attack, possibly on the scale of whats happening in NO. Is your government really competent enough to cope with a disaster of that scale? Look how they're coping now. Wheres all of the public money for contingencys, was it well spent? Wheres the rapid response, the national guard, the army?

[Stingray]

Problem is though, most of the people I've seen been plucked from their roofs don't look like the raft building type unfortunately. Also, if you're not confident of your raft building abilities, seeing dead bodies float past you probably won't have you rushing to make rafts.

You make a couple of very valid points. Like I said, that's just me. Even with the bodies floating past, I'm 100% confident that I would have no problem getting my wife to board the raft and get the hell out. I don't think either of us are the "wait for someone else to help" type. Rational or not, I'm certain that by this point I'd be well outside the NO city limits.

-S

[JackTucky]

Will any of the feel sorry for everyone liberals please stand up and say that anyone raping children is wrong?

Or are they just so HORNY because Bush lied?

Let's continue to question our government.  It's a good thing.  It would be awesome if every elected official in this country lost his reelection bid next time.  But it won't happen.  Massachusetts will continue to reelect fat Teddy because he felt bad, and he builds monuments and gets funding for that awful state, and NJ will still reelect their replacement senator, that old geezer Lousenberg.  Heck, I'd even support throwing out all of the great republican senators 

Bush is gone anyway. 

Throw 'em all out I say.

Art

[Dexter]

You make a couple of very valid points. Like I said, that's just me. Even with the bodies floating past, I'm 100% confident that I would have no problem getting my wife to board the raft and get the hell out. I don't think either of us are the "wait for someone else to help" type. Rational or not, I'm certain that by this point I'd be well outside the NO city limits.

-S

I'd be long gone before the hurricane myself, plus my family. I can't even imagine what it was like for the people who couldn't manage to evacuate in time. The real victims of this are the poorest and most ill/elderly that couldn't leave. They don't need to suffer any more than they have already.

[Stingray]

Will any of the feel sorry for everyone liberals please stand up and say that anyone raping children is wrong?

I'm probably not left enough to be considered a true liberal, but I do lean pretty far in that direction. Anyone raping children deserves a punishment so severe that I would most likely get this thread locked and get myself banned if I described it in detail. Suffice to say that vice grips, fire ants, and possibly explosives would figure prominantly.

-S

[Stingray]

You make a couple of very valid points. Like I said, that's just me. Even with the bodies floating past, I'm 100% confident that I would have no problem getting my wife to board the raft and get the hell out. I don't think either of us are the "wait for someone else to help" type. Rational or not, I'm certain that by this point I'd be well outside the NO city limits.

-S

I'd be long gone before the hurricane myself, plus my family. I can't even imagine what it was like for the people who couldn't manage to evacuate in time. The real victims of this are the poorest and most ill/elderly that couldn't leave. They don't need to suffer any more than they have already.

Indeed, I would not have been in town during the hurricane either. I was only following a chain of thought that started with "what if I were stranded on the roof of a building surrounded by floodwater?"

-S

[fredster]

We need to rally, not toss these people out.

[Dexter]

Will any of the feel sorry for everyone liberals please stand up and say that anyone raping children is wrong?

Or are they just so HORNY because Bush lied?

?

Straight up though, why isn't the army and national guard all over this? ITS FRIDAY FOR FCUKS SAKE.

[JCL]

Will any of the feel sorry for everyone liberals please stand up and say that anyone raping children is wrong?

Or are they just so HORNY because Bush lied?

Let's continue to question our government.

[TheVengeance]

None of us know how we would react. Nothing like this has happened to anyone on this board.

[Stingray]

Please don't take this the wrong way because I was not there for any of the storms that you're talking about so I'm only going by what I saw on TV. Katrina seems to have done much more damage and left many more people stranded without supplies than the storms that have recently ravaged Florida. It's not about NO being more valuable, it's just that there are so many more people there who still havn't been rescued. Getting those people out is, and should be top priority. Rebuilding will come later, possibly much later.

-S

[Dexter]

Brother, I had four , count them 1-2-3-4 hurricanes knocking on my front door last year, and you know what , I survived every damn one of them. And, I did it without raping, killing or looting! WE no sooner cleaned up from one, and another one got us , and so on & so on.

I still for the life of me, fail to see what makes New Orleans so much more valuable as a whole , compared to the hurricanes we had last year alone in Florida!

[TheVengeance]

Please don't take this the wrong way because I was not there for any of the storms that you're talking about so I'm only going by what I saw on TV. Katrina seems to have done much more damage and left many more people stranded without supplies than the storms that have recently ravaged Florida. -S

Fair enough.

[Setabs]

Turn on the tv the aid is finally making it to NO.  They just showed on fox a some buildings on fire that the police and firefighters rolled up to stood around for a while and just left because there was no water pressure to put out the fires.


As far as the rafts go I would have hit the road on sunday and just racked up My credit cards getting the f out of dodge

As for all this raft business, exactly where are they going to raft to?  What would they find when they get there? Come on.  Don't forget this was a cat 1 hurricane all the way up into LA.  It was effectively a tornado about 45-60 miles wide all the way up the state.  More than New Orleans was affected.


BTW IT guys, we fired ours today in anticipation of lack of Automotive Business.

Computer guys beware.

I think you mean up to Cat5 then cat 4 when NO got hit.  I beleive Tornado winds are still faster, though

If it came down to budget constraints I could totaly see my IT postion eleminated before the storm.  but I am not to worried I work for a grocery store w/ four stores in jackson, MIss and about 20-30 in LA.  As long as wal-mart doesn't kill us we aint going no where

The stores in Miss opened up yesterday with the vps and executive board members giving out free ice to customers.

[Shape D.]

Brother, I had four , count them 1-2-3-4 hurricanes knocking on my front door last year, and you know what , I survived every damn one of them. And, I did it without raping, killing or looting! WE no sooner cleaned up from one, and another one got us , and so on & so on.

I still for the life of me, fail to see what makes New Orleans so much more valuable as a whole , compared to the hurricanes we had last year alone in Florida! 

Did any of these equal the magnitude of this one? is your house still there? or was your city completely devastated and sitting under 30' of water in parts?

That's like me telling a man who had an arm blown off in war that the paper cut I got last week at work hurt a lot and I know what he's going through.

[TheVengeance]

Brother, I had four , count them 1-2-3-4 hurricanes knocking on my front door last year, and you know what , I survived every damn one of them. And, I did it without raping, killing or looting! WE no sooner cleaned up from one, and another one got us , and so on & so on.

I still for the life of me, fail to see what makes New Orleans so much more valuable as a whole , compared to the hurricanes we had last year alone in Florida!

[Stingray]

Perhaps you're right, the lot of us here chose not to be victims and decided to do something about it.

As did a lot of the people who live in NO. This doesn't diminish the fact that those who remain in the city desparately need help.

-S

[Setabs]

Brother, I had four , count them 1-2-3-4 hurricanes knocking on my front door last year, and you know what , I survived every damn one of them. And, I did it without raping, killing or looting! WE no sooner cleaned up from one, and another one got us , and so on & so on.

I still for the life of me, fail to see what makes New Orleans so much more valuable as a whole , compared to the hurricanes we had last year alone in Florida! 

One thing, up to 20ft of floodwater. Just thought I'd mention it. It's not about value, or amounts or how much worse YOU have it. There are people dying of starvation, dehydration etc and the government are dragging their heels. They're deploying weapons to blast undesirables with instead of deploying the military to bring aid and protection.

And your point is?

Perhaps you're right, the lot of us here chose not to be victims and decided to do something about it.

The problem w/ NO is flooding.  They have to evacuate the entire city with close to 100,000 people in it still.  Thats why all the attention is going to them.  In parts of Miss and Ala.  they have started, I believe, to begin the earliest phases of  working to rebuild.  Mainly get supplies in to people that need them. 

[TheVengeance]

That's like me telling a man who had an arm blown off in war that the paper cut I got last week at work hurt a lot and I know what he's going through.

Oh please, that's not what I'm saying at all. Try re-reading the post , SISTER !

[Stingray]

That's like me telling a man who had an arm blown off in war that the paper cut I got last week at work hurt a lot and I know what he's going through.

Oh please, that's not what I'm saying at all. Try re-reading the post , SISTER !

Actually you might want to re-read your post. I don't think you meant it that way, but using Shape D's analogy, you do sort of come off as saying that the papercut you got was just as bad as the guy who got his arm blown off and since you got over the papercut quickly, you don't understand what he's sniveling about. Again, I don't think you meant it that way, but that interpretation is there.

-S

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm sure your cities, or local radio stations are putting together a colllection or some kind of drive to collect canned foods and clothing for the victims.

There are many good people who are in a bad situation that need your help now.

[TheVengeance]

Then it still goes back to the original point as mentioned here before.


Acting like complete SAVAGES and HURTING your fellow man, while at the same time having the nerve to extend your hands in a desperate cry for help.

[TheVengeance]

That's like me telling a man who had an arm blown off in war that the paper cut I got last week at work hurt a lot and I know what he's going through.

Oh please, that's not what I'm saying at all. Try re-reading the post , SISTER !

Actually you might want to re-read your post. I don't think you meant it that way, but using Shape D's analogy, you do sort of come off as saying that the papercut you got was just as bad as the guy who got his arm blown off and since you got over the papercut quickly, you don't understand what he's sniveling about. Again, I don't think you meant it that way, but that interpretation is there.

-S

Does ShapeD actually think all we had in Florida , were PAPERCUTS?