AdvanceMenu/Mame PITA saga is OVER

[RayB]

I dont get why any sane coder would program something like AdvanceMenu without at least a default video setting compatible with standard VGA PC monitors.

What a PITA that program is! I need to at least see that it's set up right first, before I go and switch over to an arcade monitor! Give me basic generic VGA support!

So far the best I get is I hear the AdvanceMenu sound samples, but whatever it's trying to do with the video, it's out of range. I'm going nuts!

Sorry for the rant...

[Level42]

So why not connect the arcade monitor at the time you hear the samples ?

[RayB]

So why not connect the arcade monitor at the time you hear the samples ?

I figured the logical approach was to configure things with a normal monitor first (since I can see on that one), and then do the final arcade monitor settings and switch it over.

If I go straight to the Arcade monitor, will I be able to see my DOS prompt? What about Windows? I probably won't be able to see Windows (which is where I can easily edit configs in Notepad. I don't have anything for editing text in DOS).

[SirPoonga]

It isn't setup that way?  When I used it a year ago on my cabinet in linux it worked, and I only have a vga monitor.

[Level42]

So why not connect the arcade monitor at the time you hear the samples ?

I figured the logical approach was to configure things with a normal monitor first (since I can see on that one), and then do the final arcade monitor settings and switch it over.

If I go straight to the Arcade monitor, will I be able to see my DOS prompt? What about Windows? I probably won't be able to see Windows (which is where I can easily edit configs in Notepad. I don't have anything for editing text in DOS).

Sure you do: edit.com !!! Every DOS version has one.

But.....running advmame under windows with an arcade monitor ? I'd use just DOS...give this a try:
http://www.msu.edu/user/jonesdes/easycab.htm

This is an ISO file, burn it to a cd and boot your machine...and answer all the answers. Should give you a good start....

[elvis]

I don't understand why people have such a hard time with the Advance* software.

Everything you need to know is in the docs.  I think what we have here is a classic example of a generation of people who can't (or rather, don't want to) read documentation!  Once apon a time we old fogeys had to use some big bastard complex UNIX systems, and nobody in their right mind went diving in point-and-click.  You *ALWAYS* made sure you RTFM.

http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/doc-install.html#4.1

There you go.  In plain English.  And the reason it doesn't default to a particular mode?  So silly people don't go try forcing modes through hardware that won't support it by accident (and potentially destroying very expensive/rare equipment - how bad would you be complaining if *THAT* happened?).  That in itself will force you to RTFM, and actually understand the software you want to use before diving in head first.

Sorry for the counter-rant.  But really, some poor sod spent hours of their life typing up good documentation.  The least you can do is read it before complaining about their software.

[SirPoonga]

Everything you need to know is in the docs.  I think what we have here is a classic example of a generation of people who can't (or rather, don't want to) read documentation! 

No, this is a case where the software doesn't do what you want it to do out of the package AND it is pretty complex to configure.

[elvis]

How is it complex?  The docs spell out what needs to be done.

The very first time I used AdvanceMAME on arcade hardware, I spent about 15 minutes reading docs, configured the software, and it worked.

Generic VGA setup is even easier.  It's all spelled out in the docs, complete with working examples for a number of different hardware setups.

And if that much is *STILL* too hard, Google for "advmenu.rc" or "advmame.rc" (or whatever your localised config file is called) to see other people's examples of their config files.  Really, it isn't that hard.  The only difference here is you need to do a bit of reading first, rather than being spoon fed.

[Silverwind]

No, this is a case where the software doesn't do what you want it to do out of the package AND it is pretty complex to configure.

thumbs up.

[elvis]

Perhaps I should give up my current job and tour around the world setting up AdvanceMAME cabs for people?

I've yet to have an issue with any of the Advance tools.  They all seem pretty intuitive to me, and the docs are magnificent.  Not to mention other brialliant resources like Whammocade and EasyMAMECab that spell out many of the features listed in the official docs.

[RayB]

Thanks Elvis. Love you too.

I read most of the docs, many times over. The big thing I remember from it is it kept saying "refer to the back of your monitor manual". Gee thanks. How many people keep the manual to their MONITOR. Not me. And in this case, it's a monitor I got used from someone else. That's the big show-stopper there.

The next problem is there's like 6 to 8 different executables. Now I went through ADVCFG and selected options which got me far enough that it showed a test screen then a bunch of options including "save and exit" as the first one. Great. I save and exit, but does the thing work? Nope.

OK I try ADVV where I can select video modes. Cool. I select all the default SYSTEM ones. I expect if anything, I should be able to get a display using the default system modes that ALL cards have to support. This added a bunch of video mode entries to an RC file, and I specified "640" as the display size. Nope... tells me there's no available mode when I try running it.

When I switch over to the arcade monitor, I'll have the specs for it (it's a new monitor) but just getting up and running on a PC monitor shouldn't involve pulling teeth.

This thread was for ranting anyways. If you don't like it Elvis, then just refrain from posting.

-------------------------------

Just to clarify to others... I'm in Windows doing the editing of config files, but running the pure DOS files through a command prompt. THat's what I meant when

[elvis]

This thread was for ranting anyways. If you don't like it Elvis, then just refrain from posting.

Sorry guys, I really didn't mean to come across that harsh.  Was having a ---smurfy--- day, and I got a bit narky.  My bad.

Let me redeem myself:  post your current advmame config file, and lets all have a look at it.  If I can find any glaring faults, I'll point them out and hopefully have you up and running in no time.  The Number 1 biggest problem people have is defining their h/v/p clocks.  All the advcfg and advv programs are simply frontends for writing out these values to your config file.  If you know what you are doing, it's much easier to simply write these valus by hand.

Again, the advancemame authors will never add "default" values for the simple reason that it is very possible for people to blow up their monitors with this software.  As such, they err on the side of caution, and ask you to refer to your monitor manual.  99.99% of the time, standard 15KHz arcade monitors and standard 31KHz VGA monitors use some pretty generic values, so configuring them with generic clock settings is relatively safe.

And as mentioned, you can edit files in DOS via the "edit" command.  In the editor program, ALT brings up your menu, from where you can do block copy and paste, as well as file saving or renaming.

So, post the config file here, and lets sort this out for you.

[Level42]

OK, this sounds like getting interesting. I too have read eveything I could get my hands on, even read through all the EasyCab explanation (have to admit I had a headache after some time, even though I have an electronics education)

Remember we're trying to do strange tricks here, VGA cards were never meant to put out 15 Khz signals. And there's 100's of different VGA cards and 100's of monitor types etc. There is no standard config or simple way to set it up.

I'm running my video through a J-Pac and this is like a condom for video signals. Even if the videocard is putting out 31 khz, it will make it safe for the 15 Khz monitor, and sometimes you can actualy read the text Highly recommended !

There's also some drivers that will let you show the normal DOS screen in 80 colums mode on your arcade monitor...although I forgot what....

Anyway, I'm using an ATI Rage II+DVD chipset ATI card and tried the Omnicade installation CD and more recently the (better) EasyCab installation cd. But still not satisfied with the results. Video is sometimes out of sync, colors are wrong (sometimes even inverted) etc.
THis only happens in the games themselves. Both ArcadeOS and Advancemenu give perfect screens on my cab.

For some strange reason, the EasyCab seems to like textmodes !?!? to display games. I want just simple, straight 15 Khz, standard, dead-normal, arcade output, and I want to play vertical games on my horizontal monitor, with correct colors and no tearing

But the vid card is likely the problem. There's some info on EasyCab's site:
http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/ragepro.htm

In the end, for some of us Ultimarc's ArcadeVGA may be the answer, but I kinda don't like to buy a standard vid card where only some BIOS settings have been changed for double the normal price....just my Dutch genens I suppose....

[RayB]

Thanks Elvis. I was grouchy too when I posted my response...

Anyways, I'll post the config file here but also try out EasyCab. I can't post it right away since its on a different computer (that has no net access).

[SirPoonga]

How is it complex?  The docs spell out what needs to be done.

Jus tbecause it has good documentation doesn't mean it isn't complex to set up.  My TI-85 has a huge manual and is fairly complex

Complex doesn't mean it isn't hard to use either.  My TI-85 isn't that hard to use.

There's alot of options and is pretty overwhelming for news users.  That's what makes it complex.   Hence why it is names AdvanceMame. 

In this situation you have to wonder why advmame didn't work out of hte box.  It should at least do that.  Then go to the manual and figure out how to fine tune it.

[elvis]

In this situation you have to wonder why advmame didn't work out of hte box.  It should at least do that.  Then go to the manual and figure out how to fine tune it.

To reduce the volume of people damaging their hardware, it doesn't ship in a default functional state.  You have to ask yourself, exactly what is a "default" mode in this case?  15KHz modes that don't work on VGA monitors?  Or 31KHz modes that don't work on arcade monitors?

Consider it a litmus test for whether or not the end user is absolutely 100% certain that they are doing the right thing.

I'm not saying I agree with their methods, just that I understand how they came to that decision.

"AdvanceMAME versus ArcadeVGA" to me is the emulation equivalent of "Linux/BSD versus Windows".  It will work fine with a bit of tweaking and some low-level knowhow.  You could spend the money on something else and have it working "out of the box", but at the end of the day doing it the hard way really teaches you WHY and HOW things are done the way they are, rather than hiding all the juicy (and fun if you're a nerd like me) information from you.

[RayB]

You could spend the money on something else and have it working "out of the box", but at the end of the day doing it the hard way really teaches you WHY and HOW things are done the way they are, rather than hiding all the juicy (and fun if you're a nerd like me) information from you.

I spent alot of time on it yet again, and I understand your point. But I think the author could have written much better documentation, especially a configuration step by step. (Yes, he has documented everything in detail, but no, he does not accurately describe how one should proceed).

Here's what I finally had to go through to get ADVMENU working

1. This time I did everything through pure DOS (though in hindsight it was probably not necessary--and by "pure DOS" I mean I rebooted to DOS mode instead of launching Windows).

2. Deleted RC files to start over. Ran ADVMENU once to create the .RC file (configuration file)

3. Read the documentation AGAIN and hunted for the solution to the video modes. Copied in the sample multisync monitor device entry into the RC file. Tried ADVMENU. Blank screen.

4. Read documentation AGAIN. Saw AGAIN stuff about selecting video modes. The perplexing thing is I could not find options in the RC for video modes. Having already futzed with ADVV before, I decided to run it again. OH it needs an ADVMAME.RC file.

5. *sigh* Went to ADVMAME, ran it so it made an RC file. Copied that over to ADVMENU. Ran ADVV again. Now it displays modes in green and red. I "get" that. I see that I can select modes and test modes. OK, so what's the point of this app? I think to myself, if this app can figure out which modes my card supports (green) and which it doesn't (red) then why doesn't it just automatically save the good ones to my configuration file?

6. I go through and select every green mode. Then hit save.

7. Back to ADVMENU. I run it and it still shows a black screen (which I can tell is an out of range mode for the monitor just by how it sounds and looks when it switches back).

Oh hey, I remember that ADVV wrote to ADVMAME.RC, not ADVMENU.RC. So I open the mame rc and copy all the video mode entries over to the ADVMENU.RC. I run ADVMENU again. STILL a black screen!

8. Lots more futzing which I won't bother detailing... Anyways one of them involves trying ADVCFG again. I notice that "singlescan" tests never work, but "doublescan" tests do. Among all this futzing I read the docs AGAIN. Noticed an option for saying "yes" or "no" to those scan modes. I set Singlescan = no.

8B. To be safe I went back to ADVV and this time tested each and every "green" mode to make sure it worked before selecting it. Dozens of them to test. *sigh* Finally make it through and save it again. And then copy the mode entries from MAME rc to MENU rc...

9. Try ADVMENU again. VISUALS! Yes. Finally some visuals! (no sound though--more on that later). I adjust my monitor since the picture was not centered or sized right, and I notice the left edge of the graphics are a bit squished and the first letter of every game title is cut off. Not cut off in the sense that it's outside my monitor's viewing area, but the picture itself is cut off.

10. I try to figure out what mode ADVMENU decided to use. I check the menu in the FE itself and there's nothing. I messed with "display_size" in the RC file, and that doesn't seem to make a difference.

I know what the solution really is: Find and delete certain video mode definitions from the configuration file. I swear this is only two steps above torture! How am I to find which modes to keep and which to delete?? *sigh*

11. Sound is not working. Turns out I get sound if I launch through a Windows command prompt, but not from pure DOS. Of course, this is not ADVMAME/MENU's fault... It's to do with my dos sound drivers...

--the end for now--


So there was my saga tonight. Two hours of messing with "EDIT". Some progress, but a whole lot of aggravation that the docs and software don't step people through very well. I totally understand Elvis' point about the WHY, but seriously, all applications like ADVV need are a few paragraphs explaining to the user what to do and why.

Next step: I need to figure out why the SB drivers won't init. It says no EMM manager is running. How do I get the EMM manager installed? I tried manually typing "EMM386" and it just won't start it.

Also, all this trouble and turns out I don't like how ADVMENU looks!

[elvis]

OK, a few points (some of which you've already discovered):

1)  advv/advcfg writes to your advmame config file by default.  If you want it to write to your advmenu config file instead, you need to feed it the proper switches:

http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/doc-advv.html
http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/doc-advcfg.html

Running either for advmame and copying lines across to advmenu is time consuming.  Use the switches as per the docs, and try again.

2) Advmenu defaults to 1024 for the display size.  If you try to force this mode with arcade resolutions it won't work.  Make sure you set the correct resolution for the modes you are setting:

http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/doc-advmenu.html#5.2.2

3) Try switching between "vbeline", "svgaline", "vgaline" or "vbe3" drivers as your video drivers.  Some cards are documented to not work under a particular driver.

http://advancemame.sourceforge.net/doc-install.html#5.2.2

[Acids]

I feel your pain brother.

I to had a lot of "FUN"

[elvis]

Can I ask why you guys use DOS?  It really is a pig of an OS.

Linux has great documentation, supports AdvanceMAME via SVGALib (VERY easy to configure) and supports every single modern soundcard on the market.  My first cabinet was Windows based, and since then I've made every single cabinet using Linux (I even sell my commercial cabinets with Linux to save the cost of a Windows license).

Linux + Sound works "out of the box".  I've never had to tweak or configure anything to get sound working on a modern distro.  It beats the hell out of the frustration of getting PCI sound working in DOS.

[ahmer]

Can I ask why you guys use DOS?  It really is a pig of an OS.

Linux has great documentation, supports AdvanceMAME via SVGALib (VERY easy to configure) and supports every single modern soundcard on the market.  My first cabinet was Windows based, and since then I've made every single cabinet using Linux (I even sell my commercial cabinets with Linux to save the cost of a Windows license).

Linux + Sound works "out of the box".  I've never had to tweak or configure anything to get sound working on a modern distro.  It beats the hell out of the frustration of getting PCI sound working in DOS.

The man speaks the truth.

Elvis,

I think most of the people are using Dos,windows so they don't want to get trouble with Linux.

Elvis,Can u give me an advise because i am also using windowsXp and want to move toward Linux with advance stuff.

Dos almost speed up the games and utilise 99% Proccesor and Ram.
What about Linux as compared with Dos?

How much Harddisk space Linux takes with minimum resources to use it with advancemame and advancemunu?and ofcource how much boot time it takes?

One more thing i want to know is, There are two methods
1) Svgalib (Compile ourself)
2)Framebuffer (just use the binaries)

Which method is more effecive?

Bunch of questions

[SirPeale]

Perhaps I should give up my current job and tour around the world setting up AdvanceMAME cabs for people?

Well...maybe you should!  I tried to get it to work on my cabinet, and finally gave up and went back to vanilla DOS Mame.  When I would try and configure the resolutions, it would change funky colors and gave me an extremely *weird* image.  Would work fine on a VGA monitor, funkiness on an arcade monitor.

One day I'll try again, but for now...

[elvis]

I think most of the people are using Dos,windows so they don't want to get trouble with Linux.

I can completely understand that.  Linux does require far more geek-fu than DOS.  But the rewards are worth it, IMHO.  Plus there is HEAPS of quality documentation out there on the net.  I am 100% self-taught in my Linux knowledge.  One day after being sick of Windows, I started tinkering on a spare system with Linux.  Now I'm 100% Windows-free in both my personal and professional computing (this post is being brought to you from my Gentoo Linux desktop).

Dos almost speed up the games and utilise 99% Proccesor and Ram.
What about Linux as compared with Dos?

What you need to understand is that DOS isn't necessarily "faster" than Windows.  What DOS has is much fewer applications running in the background.  Windows in a cabinet needs to be tweaked so that unecessary background services are stopped.  This will free up both processor time and RAM.

Linux is the same.  In my cabinets so far I've used Debian, Slackware and Gentoo Linuxes (Linuces?).  All of them were built by me from a minimal install, meaning they were VERY light on resources.

If you run something like Fedora/RedHat/Mandrake/Mandriva/etc, these tend to be a little bloated with many background items installed by default.  Just remember to disable or uninstall what you don't need.  Better yet, use a better/lighter Linux.

How much Harddisk space Linux takes with minimum resources to use it with advancemame and advancemunu?and ofcource how much boot time it takes?

My cocktail cab is currently a Slackware build.  I managed to get Linux + SVGALib + AdvanceMAME/Menu running at around 150MB.

I actually fit an entire working install plus every single vertical game supported by MAME onto a 2GB hard disk.  Not bad for using spare parts.

One more thing i want to know is, There are two methods
1) Svgalib (Compile ourself)
2)Framebuffer (just use the binaries)

Which method is more effecive?

That depends on your video card.  EasyMAMECab has a list of recommended drivers for various cards:
http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/hardware.htm

I personally use SVGALib.  I find it easy to configure, and driver support is good for most modern video cards.  I tend to pick up old, second hand ATi and Nvidia cards for my cabs, or buy Nforce motherboards with nvidia video onboard.  So SVGALib again suits me fine.

EasyMAMECab and Whammocade are the two best resources for advice on Linux-based cabinets:
http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/whammoed/whammocade/software.htm

I plan to write up my own step-by-step howto one day, and add to the pool of knowledge.  Gotta find some spare time first.

[RayB]

I've made some decisions...

I'm going to use Windows Command Line versions of everything. I'm close to tearing my hair out.

Latest in the saga:
I installed Powerstrip, and it completely pooched my Windows. I didn't even "mess around" in Powerstrip. All I did was install it, and let it configure itself to the default parameters. Then after that, Windows wouldn't boot up anymore (locked up on the boot screen). I uninstalled Powerstrip and even reinstalled Windows and yet, I still get problems with lock ups that I didn't get before. Nothing runs right now. I'm going to have to format and start over.

I also discovered that in pure DOS mode, everything is running superslow. I suspect it's the CSDPMI. Or remnants of Powerstrip is causing crashes.

Everything works much easier when going through Windows command line, so I'll just stick to that. I may also invest in an ArcadeVGA after all... It's a shame since I hate spending money when I have so many PC parts laying around.

The amazing thing about all this is I've been building and configuring my own PCs since the early 90's. I have been SPOILED by Windows XP. DOS command line is just such a pain now! 


~Ray B.

[ahmer]

I installed Powerstrip, and it completely pooched my Windows. I didn't even "mess around" in Powerstrip. All I did was install it, and let it configure itself to the default parameters. Then after that, Windows wouldn't boot up anymore (locked up on the boot screen). I uninstalled Powerstrip and even reinstalled Windows and yet, I still get problems with lock ups that I didn't get before. Nothing runs right now. I'm going to have to format and start over.

Can you post here a screenshot of PowerStip (Advance Timing Options) which you have got for arcade monitor.
I don't know but i think my Intel Chipset does not support 15khz Arcade monitors.

here i have PowerStrip 3.59

[elvis]

Onboard Intel chipsets are shocking.  Stay away from these for MAME use.

Your best bet is a low-end ATi or Nvidia card.  Older cards like the ATi Rage and Nvidia TNT cards work well.  I've got a cocktail with a Radeon 9200 that was given to me for free, and it's super.

Again, EasyMAMECab has some mini-reviews on how well various cards work with low-frequency output.  But do be aware that not only do Intel chipsets suck, but their drivers have real issues with screen rotation as well, which affects vertical games badly.  Avoid at all costs.

[RayB]

Can you post here a screenshot of PowerStip (Advance Timing Options) which you have got for arcade monitor.

No. Like I said, I uninstalled it. I don't have an arcade monitor hooked up yet.

[Silverwind]

Onboard Intel chipsets are shocking.

[elvis]

I've not tried anything newer than a GeForce4 Ti4200 and FX5200.

The thing is that Nvidia haven't changed their 2D hardware in some years.  2D reached full hardware accelleration in the early 90's.  Only the 3D side of things has been changing.

As such, 2D support for old Nvidia chipsets *generally* scales upwards to new products pretty easily.

[wpcmame]

I'm working on a powerstrip guide for arcade monitors Here is what I got so far.

[RayB]

I am giving in. I read pages and pages of more information on configuring ADVMAME video settings and I'm sure given enough time I would have been able to work through it, but I also just read through the ArcadeVGA information pages and I have finally decided to just throw in the towel. I'll buy an AVGA card and go back to GameLauncher + DMAME. **No headaches!!!**

[whammoed]

You made the gentoo penquin cry!
Seriously though, if you ever want to give it another go, try linux.  It really is the preferred os for advance projects and Andrea gives the most support for it.

[elvis]

RayB, you never ended up posting your config files. 

[RayB]

Yeah I know... But I did get things working, remember? It just fudged all up when PowerStrip was installed.

I did the math. My time is worth more than the cost of the AVGA.



PS: I don't have time to learn yet another OS...

[elvis]

Valid, valid and valid.

I forget sometimes not everyone is a software/os tinkering nerd like me.  And for that reason, Andy and his AVGA should get a standing ovation.

[TOK]

You made the gentoo penquin cry!
Seriously though, if you ever want to give it another go, try linux.  It really is the preferred os for advance projects and Andrea gives the most support for it.

I tried this. For someone not already familiar with Linux it just adds yet another hurdle to overcome. I'm very proficient in Windows, acceptably proficient in DOS (I've actually lost DOS knowledge due to not using it  ) and I had a pretty difficult time setting up Linux for a cab. The final straw was trying to update my Nvidia display adapters to the current Beta. I read the instructions a dozen times and just couldn't get it working.

It made me appreciate how people that don't really understand computers feel. The entire directory and command structure is like Bizarro-World for a person with no Linux experience.

[elvis]

Nvidia drivers?  FBDev and SVGALib are easier alternatives, give real arcade-mode programmability and don't require XFree86/Xorg nor the Nvidia drivers.

[TOK]

Nvidia drivers?  FBDev and SVGALib are easier alternatives, give real arcade-mode programmability and don't require XFree86/Xorg nor the Nvidia drivers.

Getting into the Linux discussion, I'm afraid I wandered even further off-topic. I don't know what FBDev or SVGALib are, but my configuration involved a PC monitor and OpenGL apps were running extremely slow -like .5 frames per second slow. I was hoping the NVidia Linux drivers would have sped things up.
After hours of frustration, I ended up going with what I knew and put XP on there with all of the unnecessary Services disabled. Perhaps I could have worked through it, but it was stealing time I could have been spending completing the cab.

[elvis]

OK sorry, I'll slow it down a notch:

Warning: only vagule related to the post topic.  Rampant Linux-babbling ahoy!

There are a dozen ways to do everything in Linux.  That is simultaneously it's greatest plus and minus.  Heaps of choices, but steep learning curve and lots of docs to wade through.

Getting video out to a screen is no different.  The three most common choices available via MAME (and AdvanceMAME) are:

1) XFree86/Xorg/X-Windows:

This is the most common GUI for Linux.  Most people consider this the typical "Linux Desktop", and equate it with GNOME, KDE, etc.  XFree86 (and it's forked successor, Xorg) are big, bloated and slow.  Not bad on high-end machines, but not advised for dedicated setups.  Sometimes this is also called "X-Windows" or just "X".

"X" needs video drivers, much like Windows does.  X is open source, and as such only supply open source drivers due to licensing reasons (and that many video card companies will not release specs to open source driver writers for one reason or another - which I won't get in to here).

Under X, you can use various libraries to spit out MAME video information.  This is EXACTLY THE SAME in Windows (before anyone says "why is it so complex?").  Windows gives you the choice of Direct3D or DirectDraw.  Likewise under Linux you can choose X11 and SDL (2D only) or OpenGL (3D, but we only use the 2D part just like MAME+Direct3D).  Exactly the same theory here as in MS Windows.

For OpenGL to work, you need (surprise surprise) OpenGL drivers.  Again, more complexity, depending on your level of linux knowledge.  Just like with MS Windows where you need to install the latest Nvidia drivers for Direct3D to work, the same applies here.  However Linux and it's varied nature mean it's difficult to supply a "ready-to-go" driver that will support EVERY card/motherboard/system/kernel combination.  As such, you need your kernel headers installed to help the driver figure out how to communicate with your system.  Not friendly, but Linux is about choice over ease of use.

So, enter the other two options:

2) SVGALib:

Based on the old "VGALib" (ie: Video Graphics Array Library) this is a set of libraries and drivers for fast 2D video output direct from a commandline console.  The best thing is SVGALib is completely independant of X.  You don't need to install X at all, saving you megabytes of disk space as well as system memory.  I use SVGALib in my cocktail cabinet, and my linux kernel and associated tools eat as little as 10MB of system memory when running.  That's about 100MB less than Windows and/or X-Windows ever could.  I actually run my cocktail cabinet on 512MB of physical memory, and absolutely no swap!

SVGALib merely needs to be installed (easiest way to do this is via the native package-management tools supplied with your choice of Linux distribution) and told what maximum and minimum frequencies of the attached monitor are in it's config file.  Then, just use advcfg and advv to set and select video modes.  The steps for doing this are very clearly outlined in the AdvanceMAME docs.

SVGALib currently is 2D-hardware-accellerated only.  It can do 3D, but only in software.  The beauty here is that 2D specifications chip-to-chip don't change much between card upgrades.  The 2D technology used in the old RivaTNT cards is almost the same as that used in modern GeForce7800 cards.  Ditto for other brands.  As such, open source drivers for SVGALib are quite simple, and bundled with the package.  No need to download extra drivers post-install like you would have to with X-Windows, or even Microsoft Windows.  I use a standard SVGALib 1.9.19 release in my cabinet, and simply tell the software to autodetect my card.  It correctly detects it as a "Radeon" (model doesn't matter, again because 2D hardware on all Radeons are identical) and "just works".

Best of all, SVGALib gives TOTAL programmability of video modes to the hardware.  This is kind of dangerous, because anybody can feed modes to their monitor that it doesn't support, which can cause hardware damage.  Again, see the comments regarding range of choice versus ease of use.

3) FBDev:

This is the native "Frame Buffer Device" in the Linux Kernel.  For all intents and purposes, you can consider it similar in nature to the SVGALib project, with appropriate 2D accelleration for standard FrameBuffer devices (ie: Video Cards).

Often in modern Linux distros, FBDev support is built-in to the kernel, so no need to even install anything at all.  Have a working commandline Linux installed (no X needed), and you're good to go.  The downside is that some of the minimum pclock values are written into the code and are not configurable.  As such, you may or may not require a recompile of the standard modules included in your kernel to make very low-res modes work properly on new hardware.  For me, that makes SVGALib a preferred choice.

So, that's a whole bucket of info there.  I don't know if it helps anyone or not.

Linux, due to it's highly customisable nature is a fantastic for cabinets.  The problem is it is VERY difficult to write a one-size-fits-all solution.  Projects like AdvanceCD, KnoppixMAME, etc all try, but outside of writing an whole distro complete with wizard to select your EXACT type of monitor, controls, etc it is nigh impossible.  There will always need to be a level of customisability for cabinets, and as such requires some basic knowledge of how to configure the OS and associated tools that you've chose.  That in itself pretty much slates Linux for use only by people who know how to use Linux.  Not really a solution at all. 

But, if you're willing to put in the time, sites like EasyMAMECab and Whammocade have heaps of Arcade-specific info for new users, and there are dozens of other sites (as well as the documentation) for general Linux setup.

I've been using Linux since 1996 (converting my entire business and home setups to 100% Linux 2 years ago), so I tend to forget exactly how long I've been doing this, and how long it's taken me to get to where I am now.  But everything I know comes from documentation.  The information is not hidden, nor expensive.  But it does take time.

[TOK]

Thats an incredible amount of very detailed information!
Where were you when I was setting up my cab? 

Maybe I'll give Linux another try when I do my next cab (bartop). Right now, 3D apps won't figure in its configuration, so Linux would be far more viable to install for me. I will say that all the hardware that I had connected to the computer was detected and worked. I stumbled when I tried to change or add to the configuration. I won't even go into when I tried to swap from a PS/2 to USB mouse. Hah.