Damn Dell PC's

[shadowdrak]

The crappy Dell models are just that... crap.

[ChadTower]

The way I see it is this:

Two years ago he bought a budget model PC, and two years after the fact is complaining that it's not more current.  He got what he paid for, and now that it is showing age, he is blaming Dell for his purchase. 

[Shadowgate]

The top of the line Dell computers are used by engineers and graphics design artists who do 3D rendering. A good Dell precision workstation can be well over $2k so they don't only sell to consumers. In fact there is very little money in consumer brand computers and they only reason they stay in the consumer market is because the process is streamlined so much they can afford to sell their systems dirt cheap.
Most of the revenue comes from business customers who can get a customized system depending on its usage. Where Dell really makes their money is servers though.

[DrewKaree]

I have a PackardBell 486 DX266 that is still running after years of use.  Guess i was one of the lucky ones.

There is no doubt in my mind that my Packard Bell would still run, and would stil BE running.  The problem is replacing any item inside it and getting it to run without any interference from Packard Bell's idiotic setups. 

Well, I take some of that back.  It would STILL be running, if it hadn't met the ground with enough force to deal with it properly.  The only thing that would have worked better with that damn thing is a higher drop

[tommy]

The way I see it is this:

Two years ago he bought a budget model PC, and two years after the fact is complaining that it's not more current.

[jbox]

Do you still have the other CPU available? Why don't you try patching the BIOS first, and then swap the CPU to see if it is supported? 

At least your tale can be a warning to others, avoid any board with built-in video or soft-modem, because it just aint worth the hassle later on... 

[tommy]

I don't have the intel processor anymore, i have all but bought the MSI Athon mobo and will begin to build a powerhouse.

It will feel so nice to be able to buy the best of every component even in years to come it WILL be upgradeable.

"Starting over" thread in EE had the specs on the mobo.

[ChadTower]

Jesus chad, i understand a 2 year old PC is not current now, but who the hell wants a PC where you can't change things as needed. Thats where the confusion comes in, i was told i could change the processor when i bought the thing.

It probably IS upgradeable, you're not willing to take the proper upgrade path (BIOS first, then CPU).

[Brunnen-G]

I support a tremendous number of Dell PCs where I work.  Somewhere around 4,000 PCs.

The Optiplex GX270 and 280 series have a serious defect with the capacitors used.  Nichicon brand caps with an 'X' shaped indentation at the top will often swell, leak electrolyte, or explode after a year or so of use.  In the last four months, we've replaced over 100 motherboards with this problem, and we're seeing at least 5-10 a week now.

While their support is quite good about sending out replacement parts (usually next day), I'm not terribly impressed with the quality of the machines themselves.

I'll add my vote to the 'build your own' idea.  You get exactly what you want and know how everything goes together.

[DrewKaree]

I support a tremendous number of Dell PCs where I work.  Somewhere around 4,000 PCs.

Oh great, now we have people with absolutely no qualifications or experience chiming in on this thread

[richms]

the issue I have with dells etc is that getting specs on them is hard, I couldnt find anywhere which would document what volage CPUs could be used, or the maximum wattage of CPU that could be put in them, whih is kinda important when upgrading CPU - if you put a 80 watt peak CPU in a board that struggles to provide that much power, you will find it crashing/rebooting when you max the CPU out - nothing is faulty, just dont go together.

People like dell will be a bit more carefull to check for things like this before releasing a machine with that CPU in it, where as "bobs bitsa pc's" most likly will not. Even finding max current supply for standalone motherboards is difficult.

I have no problems recommending cheap dells to people that are looking for a PC and will not be the type to upgrade there PC.

[paigeoliver]

My biggest issue with Dell and every other major PC manufacturer out there is that they cram all these "value" PCs onto the market.

Nothing wrong with a "value" PC, but when said "Value" PC has the absolute minimum memory required by the operating system, and is churning in swap file constantly from the moment it boots, well, it is worthless. They could have spent $10 more on the computer and actually provided a good product.

It seems that all the manufacturers do the whole minimum memory thing for about 2 years after each windows release, after which they finally slip up to a USABLE minimum amount of memory.

We have 3 different Dells here at work, 2 are Windows XP, the other is Windows 2000. All 3 of them have 128MB of RAM. The only one remotely usuable by a human being is the 1ghz Windows 2000 one, the 2.whatever ghz Windows XP ones are slower than our old Windows 95 computers because they are just churning ALL THE TIME.

Windows 2000 never really hit the "value" market much, so I will skip that.

In the Windows 98 days it was 32MB of ram (often with 1-8MB of that used for shared video). Their are still MILLIONS of those 24-31MB turds out there in service, still churning along, hitting swap file 24 hours a day. Matter of fact, when someone tells me they need a new computer and I see they have one of these I tell them I can fix their whole computer for $20, and NOT to waste their money on a new one (which would just be another "Value" churner anyway), I stick a 128MB ram stick in there and they are AMAZED.

In the late Windows 95 days it was 16MB of ram, same thing, swap file all day long.

My first thinkpad laptop just celebrated it's 11th birthday, and it still works perfectly aside from 3 dead pixels (which have been dead at least 5 years now).

[nipsmg]

Even Dell's VALUE Pc's are great, for a SPECIFIC MARKET.

Basically, you get what you pay for.

You don't go out and buy a Ford Focus, hoping to trick it out and make it a street racer, do you?  No.  Sure, it may have some of the same features as other cars you want (same top speed, same gas mileage, etc), but it's not suitable for upgrading.

It's the same with computers.

We use Dell almost exclusively in house, and after years of dealing with our old IT Manager's "bargain, value" PC's or self built PC's, I'm thrilled to have Dell's machines in here.  Sure, they're not all that upgradeable, but for a business market, that's not a huge deal.  The machines get as much use as possible.  When someone outgrows it, it gets passed down the line to more mundane tasks, until we finally get rid of it and replace it.

For a home PC, if you're a casual internet user or Office user, and don't use your PC for gaming or heavy video/image editing, a Dimension 3000 is an excellent choice for you.  You probably won't upgrade it for a few years beacuse you won't need to, at which point you've gotten the $400 you spent on it out of it, and can go buy a new dirt cheap Dell PC. 

Even if you go and buy the top of the line brand spanking new $2,000 PC, you may actually have reached THE TOP OF THE LINE, as far as your hardware is concerned.  If the next newest chip after yours uses a different socket, or an unsupported faster clock speed then YOU'RE SCREWED FOR UPGRADING ANYWAYS (unless you replace the motherboard).

Basically, it comes down to buying the right tool for the job.  You wouldn't go and buy a tiny little garden spade to shovel your 1/8 mile long driveway, You'd go out and get a snowblower.  So don't go out and buy the smallest, cheapest, crappiest PC your OEM offers, then get pissed when you can't upgrade it.

As for the Capacitor issue, that's a nichicon issue, not a Dell issue.  Dell got screwed on that deal, because they had no idea those caps would be defective.  I've seen issues with Nichicon caps in house also. 

[ChadTower]

You wouldn't go out and get a giant 5 line analogy if you only needed 3 or 4 analogous words!

[pointdablame]

You don't go out and buy a Ford Focus, hoping to trick it out and make it a street racer, do you? 

You've been out of the car game for a while haven't you??   Ford Focuses are very popular among "street racers" today.  I don't understand why... but they are.

[ChadTower]

Cheap and lots of room for ricer visual upgrades that slow the thing down.

[Stingray]

The Optiplex GX270 and 280 series have a serious defect with the capacitors used.  Nichicon brand caps with an 'X' shaped indentation at the top will often swell, leak electrolyte, or explode after a year or so of use.  In the last four months, we've replaced over 100 motherboards with this problem, and we're seeing at least 5-10 a week now.

Hey neato. I'll bet ya can't guess what kind of computer I have on my desk here at work!

Guess I can look forward to getting a new PC next year.

-S

[mrhowell]

Dells are great.  Easy to reload or image with ghost.  We have 1000's in the K-12 system I work in.  Warrenty parts ordering is done online,  parts arrive the next day, plus we make $45 on most repairs.  Drivers are easy to get from their site.  Sure beats the old Gateway and IBM PS/2 days.