Damn Dell PC's

[tommy]

I had a chance to upgrade my processor from my Celeron 1.70 to a P4 2.4 and it didn't work out, the damn board and socket matched for the swap but these Dell's are so shity nothing else will work but what you have already.

Every time i see these commercials about dell i feel like calling them and telling them off, "buy a dell PC they're great" they say, in this day and age for a computer maker to make a PC that is absolutly not upgradable is insane.

Don't get scammed like i did.

Just abit pissed off at the moment and had to vent.

[ChadTower]

Could it be that you bought a PC with the motherboard already maxxed out?  That you got the top of the line at the time, but now that it's older, you can't upgrade it more than it was?

You presumably read the specs when you bought it and knew that it wasn't upgradeable beyond what was already in it.

[Shape D.]

a lot of dells stuff will only work with dells stuff. I hate dell, and that annoying dell kid.

[missioncontrol]

allways build your own........... 

That way you know the specs........ 

[ChadTower]

I run several Dells in my basement and they are all rock solid and were awesome deals.

[slayj]

I have a Dell desktop and laptop and have been quite satisfied.  However, I built my first machine while building my cabinet and I will ALWAYS do that from now on. 

[lokki]

let me defend dell :-).
I think they are a great company that offers great products and great customer service.
Having said that

I would not buy (for my personal use) most brand name computers.
I personally don't need the customer service, But would recommend my parents to a brand name computer.

We buy a lot of DELL computer for work (along with HP and Gateway) and of these 3 I like Dell best.
But the lower consumer line of dell computers (optiplex?)are (or where) completely not upgradable.
Issues we had included

1) No room for additional HD, had to remove existing HD and replace with Higher capacity (same for RAM)
2) 2 PCI slots (and no AGP) so once video card was upgraded future upgrades where limited.


But other than that they where good work horses.

[missioncontrol]

you'll just have to upgrade your mobo along with your processor............

[tommy]

Could it be that you bought a PC with the motherboard already maxxed out?

[pointdablame]

you may need a BIOS upgrade to accept chips with speeds higher than what was available when you got your machine.

If it really is the same Socket and the same FSB, there is no way for Dell to stop you from upgrading.  Socket A is socket A no matter what... 478 is always 478... etc.  At worst you need a BIOS update.  Either that or your chip is running a different FSB. or its set wrong in the BIOS.

Dell does a lot of things, but they can't stop you from upgrading your CPU.  And Dell hasn't used proprietary PSU cables in a number of years.. how old is this system?  I've played around with a lot of recent Dell machines, and they aren't much different than a regular home-built ATX machine.

[tommy]

you may need a BIOS upgrade to accept chips with speeds higher than what was available when you got your machine.

If it really is the same Socket and the same FSB, there is no way for Dell to stop you from upgrading.

[pointdablame]

It wouldn't just come on and work if the CPU you put it was not available at teh time of your BIOS revision.

I have a socket939 Athlon64 motherboard that can use the new dual core processors... but only if I upgrade my BIOS. why? Because they weren't available during the time my current BIOS was released.

You can't expect companies to be compatible with processors that aren't even out yet.

[tommy]

It wouldn't just come on and work if the CPU you put it was not available at teh time of your BIOS revision.

I have a socket939 Athlon64 motherboard that can use the new dual core processors... but only if I upgrade my BIOS. why? Because they weren't available during the time my current BIOS was released.

You can't expect companies to be compatible with processors that aren't even out yet.

It was available thats why it has the same socket, mine was the lesser of the two i could have bought, they might have made a whole other mobo for the celeron then the P4 (thats what i was told) even dell couldn't tell me for sure,i will find out more about why it won't work.

Thanks for your input.

[AlanS17]

You might have a conflict in bus speed. Have you checked the jumper settings on the board?

[tommy]

You might have a conflict in bus speed. Have you checked the jumper settings on the board?

It has the same FSB(front side bus) it's compatible on paper.

[RayB]

Tommy, sorry to say this, but it's your own ignorance. Just because it fits the slot does NOT mean you bought a compatible processor!

Motherboards have "clocks" for the timing, and they have limits as to what speed chips they can support. Did you research what exact CPUs your board could support?


I only build my own PCs but my experience with Dells at one of my former jobs is that they are very reliable machines.

[DrewKaree]

NO, i was told i could upgrade the processor at a later time if i wanted, the processor socket is the same as the upgrade i wanted but it won't work.

Even with a new mobo i would have to hack the power wires as dell has them all on one connector and any normal board has several connections for power, it's just not worth it.

Maybe I'm reading this too hard, but this reads to me as if the power supply for your P4 requires something extra (wasn't there an extra power lead required for 'em?), and the power supply you have in your Dell there already is perfectly fine for your Celly, but isn't stout enough (or wasn't the proper kind) to run a P4.

Is it possible that getting a P4-compatible power supply would have the connector your upgrade chip requires and allow everything to worky-worky?

[jbox]

Which motherboard is it (brand/serial)? It might also be helpful to post the bios revision too, it comes up when you boot and probably looks something like 031031012752E.

[AlanS17]

Look on the bright side. At least it's not a Gateway!

[tommy]

Tommy, sorry to say this, but it's your own ignorance. Just because it fits the slot does NOT mean you bought a compatible processor!

Motherboards have "clocks" for the timing, and they have limits as to what speed chips they can support. Did you research what exact CPUs your board could support?


I only build my own PCs but my experience with Dells at one of my former jobs is that they are very reliable machines.

 It's not that it just fits the slot, it was an avaliable upgrade at the time i bought this "dung"and everything should be fine. I'm not saying they're not reliable just not very upgradable. This thing dosen't even have an AGP slot.

[tommy]

NO, i was told i could upgrade the processor at a later time if i wanted, the processor socket is the same as the upgrade i wanted but it won't work.

Even with a new mobo i would have to hack the power wires as dell has them all on one connector and any normal board has several connections for power, it's just not worth it.

Maybe I'm reading this too hard, but this reads to me as if the power supply for your P4 requires something extra (wasn't there an extra power lead required for 'em?), and the power supply you have in your Dell there already is perfectly fine for your Celly, but isn't stout enough (or wasn't the proper kind) to run a P4.

Is it possible that getting a P4-compatible power supply would have the connector your upgrade chip requires and allow everything to worky-worky?

You read it too hard, if i switch the mobo i would have to cut into the power wires because dell's mobo has all the connections to one connector, on a aftermarket mobo they are spead out through a few different spots on the board.

Jbox, my mobo is a "Blueford" E139765, or this number CN-07W-080-70821-31J-D106. I'll get the bios number another time.

[missioncontrol]

I'm not saying they're not reliable just not very upgradable. This thing dosen't even have an AGP slot.

sorry Tommy, It's begining to sound like you didn't do your homework before you bought the PC and now your taking out your frustrations on DELL.

[tommy]

I'm not saying they're not reliable just not very upgradable. This thing dosen't even have an AGP slot.

sorry Tommy, It's begining to sound like you didn't do your homework before you bought the PC and now your taking out your frustrations on DELL.

It sounds like that but i did know what i was buying, the fact remains, it is not possible to upgrade the CPU on the original board.

[Daniel270]

Look on the bright side. At least it's not a Gateway!

... or a Hewlett Packard.....

[AlanS17]

Look on the bright side. At least it's not a Gateway!

... or a Hewlett Packard.....

Amen! Or a Packard Bell!! Anyone remember those things? (If you don't, there's probably a good reason.)

[pointdablame]

I remember my first Packard Bell... a 75mhz monster.  I turned it on the day we got it all happy and excited.  It was late at night when we set it up and we went to sleep after playing with it for 10 mins or so.

We went to go turn it back on in the morning, and it was dead.  The motherboard totally ate itself.


..... great machines those Packard Bells......   

[sc1103]

I remember my old AST 486DX...my dad managed to break that christams day...about 5 hours after we got it trying to put on windows 3.1  Now they leave all that work to me 

[jbox]

It sounds like that but i did know what i was buying, the fact remains, it is not possible to upgrade the CPU on the original board.

What brand of Dell was the total package? eg. Dimension 2300, 2300C, 2350, etc... 

Even on dial-up it only took me about 10 minutes to find that the Dell website offers several BIOS updates for its older brands, dating back several years, which allow support for the later releases of CPUs. 

[shmokes]

I was a tech support guy for Packard Bell when I was in high school.  Man, those were awful computers.  They had a run of hundreds of thousands of motherboards with onboard video that, when a specific resolution and color depth (that were supposedly supported) were selected, the motherboard fry itself dead.  They didn't want to do a recall, so we were instructed to tell the customers it appeared that the motherboard was dead and send a tech out to replace it.  But they just sent out another identical, defective motherboard.

Funny.

[tommy]

It sounds like that but i did know what i was buying, the fact remains, it is not possible to upgrade the CPU on the original board.

What brand of Dell was the total package? eg. Dimension 2300, 2300C, 2350, etc...

[Shadowgate]

I work for Dell so I know an awful lot about their PCs. If you bought a bottom of the line dimension system then yes it doesn't have AGP or PCI-E slots because the machine costs about $300 brand new. Its meant for grandmas who want to "surf the web" and not for gamers or anyone looking for a powerhouse system. You should have spent a bit more and got something upgradeable if thats what you were looking to do.

[DrewKaree]

2350, http://www.epinions.com/content_103290932868

Well there you go.  Now that you know, save that proc and toodle on over to NewEgg and build a system around that little chip you've got.  Or you can save that money and buy a throwaway Dell again

Oh, for the record, I just built a new PC for $600, which INCLUDED a $150 dual-tuner PVR card, so let us know if you buy another Dell so I can enjoy my drive to FLA to beat your brains in

[missioncontrol]

Quote from link posted above:

Pros
Cheap, disposable

so let us know if you buy another Dell so I can enjoy my drive to FLA to beat your brains in

Will That be activities during the Florida BYOAC meet

[DrewKaree]

so let us know if you buy another Dell so I can enjoy my drive to FLA to beat your brains in

Will That be activities during the Florida BYOAC meet 

Well, if I have to make a trip to beat his brains in, I may as well get help so I don't wear out my brains-beating-in arm....there's others that need my "assistance" too, ya know!  With ChadTower's kicking leg and my arm, we could set the world straight with some help...or just a select few without help.

[tommy]

I work for Dell so I know an awful lot about their PCs. If you bought a bottom of the line dimension system then yes it doesn't have AGP or PCI-E slots because the machine costs about $300 brand new. Its meant for grandmas who want to "surf the web" and not for gamers or anyone looking for a powerhouse system. You should have spent a bit more and got something upgradeable if thats what you were looking to do.

I guess the top of the line Dell is for middle aged tetris paying house wives. 

[ChadTower]

No, top of the line Dells are for corporate server rooms and can do more than the average home user would even understand.

[tommy]

Quote from link posted above:

Pros
Cheap, disposable

so let us know if you buy another Dell so I can enjoy my drive to FLA to beat your brains in

Will That be activities during the Florida BYOAC meet

[DrewKaree]

There are all kinds of fun games we can take part in, like who can boot this Dell the furthest and how would this Dell look on the front lawn of Dell's headquarters.(on fire or in a pitbulls mouth)

I heaved a Packard Bell off of a second-story porch once.  Quite satisfying in the end, and it was a final lesson that Packard Bell could offer to me - PC hardware isn't designed to make that trip safely

I guess the top of the line Dell is for middle aged tetris paying house wives. 

Now HOLD ON a minute!  You just said up there, and gave us a link, telling us that not only is your Dell NOT a top of the line Dell, but it's more accurately described as a Dell bargain system.

WHAT is your Dell - model number and name (Inspiron or whatever the name is) - if that link you gave us above IS NOT your Dell?

If that link you gave us IS your Dell, you are woefully misunderedumacated as to what kind of Dell you bought.

Either you are giving us bad information, or you are unclear as to what you actually have, and you are the only one who can straighten this out.  Right now, based on EVERYTHING you've told us, I'm going with the informant, rather than the information.

[missioncontrol]

I guess the top of the line Dell is for middle aged tetris paying house wives.

[tommy]

I do have the crappy dell, i was making fun of shadowgate. 

[shadowdrak]

The crappy Dell models are just that... crap.

[ChadTower]

The way I see it is this:

Two years ago he bought a budget model PC, and two years after the fact is complaining that it's not more current.  He got what he paid for, and now that it is showing age, he is blaming Dell for his purchase. 

[Shadowgate]

The top of the line Dell computers are used by engineers and graphics design artists who do 3D rendering. A good Dell precision workstation can be well over $2k so they don't only sell to consumers. In fact there is very little money in consumer brand computers and they only reason they stay in the consumer market is because the process is streamlined so much they can afford to sell their systems dirt cheap.
Most of the revenue comes from business customers who can get a customized system depending on its usage. Where Dell really makes their money is servers though.

[DrewKaree]

I have a PackardBell 486 DX266 that is still running after years of use.  Guess i was one of the lucky ones.

There is no doubt in my mind that my Packard Bell would still run, and would stil BE running.  The problem is replacing any item inside it and getting it to run without any interference from Packard Bell's idiotic setups. 

Well, I take some of that back.  It would STILL be running, if it hadn't met the ground with enough force to deal with it properly.  The only thing that would have worked better with that damn thing is a higher drop

[tommy]

The way I see it is this:

Two years ago he bought a budget model PC, and two years after the fact is complaining that it's not more current.

[jbox]

Do you still have the other CPU available? Why don't you try patching the BIOS first, and then swap the CPU to see if it is supported? 

At least your tale can be a warning to others, avoid any board with built-in video or soft-modem, because it just aint worth the hassle later on... 

[tommy]

I don't have the intel processor anymore, i have all but bought the MSI Athon mobo and will begin to build a powerhouse.

It will feel so nice to be able to buy the best of every component even in years to come it WILL be upgradeable.

"Starting over" thread in EE had the specs on the mobo.

[ChadTower]

Jesus chad, i understand a 2 year old PC is not current now, but who the hell wants a PC where you can't change things as needed. Thats where the confusion comes in, i was told i could change the processor when i bought the thing.

It probably IS upgradeable, you're not willing to take the proper upgrade path (BIOS first, then CPU).

[Brunnen-G]

I support a tremendous number of Dell PCs where I work.  Somewhere around 4,000 PCs.

The Optiplex GX270 and 280 series have a serious defect with the capacitors used.  Nichicon brand caps with an 'X' shaped indentation at the top will often swell, leak electrolyte, or explode after a year or so of use.  In the last four months, we've replaced over 100 motherboards with this problem, and we're seeing at least 5-10 a week now.

While their support is quite good about sending out replacement parts (usually next day), I'm not terribly impressed with the quality of the machines themselves.

I'll add my vote to the 'build your own' idea.  You get exactly what you want and know how everything goes together.

[DrewKaree]

I support a tremendous number of Dell PCs where I work.  Somewhere around 4,000 PCs.

Oh great, now we have people with absolutely no qualifications or experience chiming in on this thread

[richms]

the issue I have with dells etc is that getting specs on them is hard, I couldnt find anywhere which would document what volage CPUs could be used, or the maximum wattage of CPU that could be put in them, whih is kinda important when upgrading CPU - if you put a 80 watt peak CPU in a board that struggles to provide that much power, you will find it crashing/rebooting when you max the CPU out - nothing is faulty, just dont go together.

People like dell will be a bit more carefull to check for things like this before releasing a machine with that CPU in it, where as "bobs bitsa pc's" most likly will not. Even finding max current supply for standalone motherboards is difficult.

I have no problems recommending cheap dells to people that are looking for a PC and will not be the type to upgrade there PC.

[paigeoliver]

My biggest issue with Dell and every other major PC manufacturer out there is that they cram all these "value" PCs onto the market.

Nothing wrong with a "value" PC, but when said "Value" PC has the absolute minimum memory required by the operating system, and is churning in swap file constantly from the moment it boots, well, it is worthless. They could have spent $10 more on the computer and actually provided a good product.

It seems that all the manufacturers do the whole minimum memory thing for about 2 years after each windows release, after which they finally slip up to a USABLE minimum amount of memory.

We have 3 different Dells here at work, 2 are Windows XP, the other is Windows 2000. All 3 of them have 128MB of RAM. The only one remotely usuable by a human being is the 1ghz Windows 2000 one, the 2.whatever ghz Windows XP ones are slower than our old Windows 95 computers because they are just churning ALL THE TIME.

Windows 2000 never really hit the "value" market much, so I will skip that.

In the Windows 98 days it was 32MB of ram (often with 1-8MB of that used for shared video). Their are still MILLIONS of those 24-31MB turds out there in service, still churning along, hitting swap file 24 hours a day. Matter of fact, when someone tells me they need a new computer and I see they have one of these I tell them I can fix their whole computer for $20, and NOT to waste their money on a new one (which would just be another "Value" churner anyway), I stick a 128MB ram stick in there and they are AMAZED.

In the late Windows 95 days it was 16MB of ram, same thing, swap file all day long.

My first thinkpad laptop just celebrated it's 11th birthday, and it still works perfectly aside from 3 dead pixels (which have been dead at least 5 years now).

[nipsmg]

Even Dell's VALUE Pc's are great, for a SPECIFIC MARKET.

Basically, you get what you pay for.

You don't go out and buy a Ford Focus, hoping to trick it out and make it a street racer, do you?  No.  Sure, it may have some of the same features as other cars you want (same top speed, same gas mileage, etc), but it's not suitable for upgrading.

It's the same with computers.

We use Dell almost exclusively in house, and after years of dealing with our old IT Manager's "bargain, value" PC's or self built PC's, I'm thrilled to have Dell's machines in here.  Sure, they're not all that upgradeable, but for a business market, that's not a huge deal.  The machines get as much use as possible.  When someone outgrows it, it gets passed down the line to more mundane tasks, until we finally get rid of it and replace it.

For a home PC, if you're a casual internet user or Office user, and don't use your PC for gaming or heavy video/image editing, a Dimension 3000 is an excellent choice for you.  You probably won't upgrade it for a few years beacuse you won't need to, at which point you've gotten the $400 you spent on it out of it, and can go buy a new dirt cheap Dell PC. 

Even if you go and buy the top of the line brand spanking new $2,000 PC, you may actually have reached THE TOP OF THE LINE, as far as your hardware is concerned.  If the next newest chip after yours uses a different socket, or an unsupported faster clock speed then YOU'RE SCREWED FOR UPGRADING ANYWAYS (unless you replace the motherboard).

Basically, it comes down to buying the right tool for the job.  You wouldn't go and buy a tiny little garden spade to shovel your 1/8 mile long driveway, You'd go out and get a snowblower.  So don't go out and buy the smallest, cheapest, crappiest PC your OEM offers, then get pissed when you can't upgrade it.

As for the Capacitor issue, that's a nichicon issue, not a Dell issue.  Dell got screwed on that deal, because they had no idea those caps would be defective.  I've seen issues with Nichicon caps in house also. 

[ChadTower]

You wouldn't go out and get a giant 5 line analogy if you only needed 3 or 4 analogous words!

[pointdablame]

You don't go out and buy a Ford Focus, hoping to trick it out and make it a street racer, do you? 

You've been out of the car game for a while haven't you??   Ford Focuses are very popular among "street racers" today.  I don't understand why... but they are.

[ChadTower]

Cheap and lots of room for ricer visual upgrades that slow the thing down.

[Stingray]

The Optiplex GX270 and 280 series have a serious defect with the capacitors used.  Nichicon brand caps with an 'X' shaped indentation at the top will often swell, leak electrolyte, or explode after a year or so of use.  In the last four months, we've replaced over 100 motherboards with this problem, and we're seeing at least 5-10 a week now.

Hey neato. I'll bet ya can't guess what kind of computer I have on my desk here at work!

Guess I can look forward to getting a new PC next year.

-S

[mrhowell]

Dells are great.  Easy to reload or image with ghost.  We have 1000's in the K-12 system I work in.  Warrenty parts ordering is done online,  parts arrive the next day, plus we make $45 on most repairs.  Drivers are easy to get from their site.  Sure beats the old Gateway and IBM PS/2 days.