Discussion: Ultracade and the Mame Trademark

[JoyMonkey]

I'd be interested to see how Tempest and Asteroids perform in an Ultracade cocktail cabinet. No emulator has ever had real cocktail modes for a lot of games that Ultracade included in some game packs.

[Ken Layton]

Just got a new products flyer from Happ Controls. Guess what---they are now distributing Ultracade boards and complete machines!

[SNAAKE]

Human beings should no longer reproduce, because your offspring might be used for illegal activities when they grow up!

LOLOLOL

 

[IntruderAlert]

Just got a new products flyer from Happ Controls. Guess what---they are now distributing Ultracade boards and complete machines!

Happ Controls was involved with getting Ultracade back on its feet after Hyperware went bankrupt.
David R. Foley definitely has some friends there.

I'm not sure if this article was mentioned already but here's one that shows how Happ Controls was involved in getting Ultracade back on it's feet:
http://www.casbox.com/Stinger/Sting130.html

THE STINGER REPORT #130




Ultracade Helped Back Into Ring

Word on the Street
As Hyperware ended their investment in the amusement sector, and dropped their 2,500 unit selling Ultracard retro kit and cabinet PC endeavors, industry philanthropist, Happ Controls, building on their Midway acquisition has stepped up to become the company's new controller.

The agreement will see the sales and manufacture of the Ultracade and any Graphite arcade PC's handled exclusively through Happ Controls. The Ultracade has proven more of a proposition to operators in its kit variant, though it is expected that a few upright cabinets will be manufactured. The remnants of the technical team retained by bankrupted Hyperware parent Quantum3D have privately agreed to support the Ultracade through a shell company called Ultracade Technologies. There are a number of pet projects that they would like to investigate along with additional game packs.

This will be the second indirect Midway acquisition that Happ will have acquired as they already run a number of kit versions of Midway "old Gold" (Invasion and Area 51), while the Ultracade runs a number of Midway titles. The return to the amusement sector, no matter how much supported by Happ, there is one issue that has followed the operation that looks set to be a constant issue in their new guise.

For those that have not followed the Stingers coverage of the Hyperware operation it is best to say that the company has attempted to present an amusement face to a sector of the hobby / consumer games market that has affected the arcade market. The Retro revival (playing of classic arcade games on home systems) has exploded on the playing scene since the late 90

[Witchboard]

That's too bad.  Sanwa sticks are expensive.  Looks like I'll be out more pocket change. 

[KevSteele]

Hey, check this out:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=27096

A "horse racing sim"?

Kevin

[paigeoliver]

Hey, check this out:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=27096

A "horse racing sim"?

Kevin

He is just copying the single most profitable arcade game available today, Derby Owners Club, it costs 150,000 and has a large install footprint, but it will take in $24 every 5 minutes on a busy friday or saturday night. There is one near where I live, on friday and saturday nights all 8 slots are filled (with people waiting in the wings) each person paying $3 every 5 minutes, so the machine is literally taking in about $300 an hour for a 6 hour stretch each friday and saturday and it sees decent play the rest of the week as well.

[IntruderAlert]

Yeah.. they are trying to compete against SEGA
Here's another article about it with some pics of some guys playing the SEGA game

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050302/SPORTS/503020458/1022

[IntruderAlert]

How about this one?:

http://www.barcade.com/media_detail.php?type=media&id=1323

[IntruderAlert]

Oh goodie.. here are the pics for the Ultracade Racing Sim:

[IntruderAlert]

I don't guess this means anything but:

Ultracade Hires New Vice President of Manufacturing    
10 Mar, 2005


Ultracade Technologies manufacturer of classic multi-game video machines for the coin-op and consumer markets, today announced the new hire of Fred Abadi. Mr. Abadi brings over a decade of experience in manufacturing, customer service, operations and purchasing in the location-based entertainment market. Before joining the fast growing UltraCade team, Fred was employed at companies like Interactive Light and GlobalVR in manufacturing and operational positions. He worked on titles like Kick It, Slide It and Home Run Derby while at Interactive Light. At GlobalVR Fred lead manufacturing of unforgettable titles like PGA Golf and Need for Speed.

[paigeoliver]

My goodness, those pictures make it look like a complete rip off or Derby Owner's Club right down to the Engrish. Graphics looks better though, but that is to be expected.

The only problem is they are making the mistake of making them separate units, if they really want to sell machines that are profitible for the ops then they need the big unified install with the Giant double projection screens like Sega has, otherwise greedy ops will just buy a pair of them and then get all pissy when they can't earn like Derby Owner's Club can.

[Crazy Cooter]

My goodness, those pictures make it look like a complete rip off or Derby Owner's Club right down to the Engrish.

Would you expect anything less?

[SirPoonga]

The only problem is they are making the mistake of making them separate units, if they really want to sell machines that are profitible for the ops then they need the big unified install with the Giant double projection screens like Sega has, otherwise greedy ops will just buy a pair of them and then get all pissy when they can't earn like Derby Owner's Club can.

There's one at Gameworks in downtown Minneapolis.  That thing is crazy!!!  It's like the ultimate gigapet game.

[DarkKobold]

You know, with all this talk, has anyone actually done anything? Or are we just sitting around this sewing circle, and 700 replies later, still reitierating the same things?

Now, granted, I've not taken any actions, but it appears, other than cute pictures, no one else has either.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

You know, with all this talk, has anyone actually done anything? Or are we just sitting around this sewing circle, and 700 replies later, still reitierating the same things?

Now, granted, I've not taken any actions, but it appears, other than cute pictures, no one else has either.

I am working on a boycott site for Ultracade. I didn't want to post anything about it yet, but I figure I might as well get some suggestions from the crew here. PM me with any suggestions, or offers to help. DO NOT POST INFO HERE...I don't want to tip my hand any more than this post already has.

I want it to have a database of products that are directly manufactured by Ultracade. I want to list EVERYTHING. I also want to list vendors that 'stock' Ultracade products, so we can possibly boycott them as well.

I intend on building/hosting the site, with others in the community helping me to manage it. Users that are given accounts will be able to add products to the list, so it will be a true community effort.

There will also be contact information for the various vendors, as well as information on how to go about addressing this issue w/ them most effectively.

I cannot stand by and wait while someone tries to destroy something I love.

More info as it develops.


mrC

[IntruderAlert]

You know, with all this talk, has anyone actually done anything? Or are we just sitting around this sewing circle, and 700 replies later, still reitierating the same things?

Now, granted, I've not taken any actions, but it appears, other than cute pictures, no one else has either.

Did you mean reiterating?

[JoyMonkey]

As I've said earlier in this thread, I think the best way of helping the MAME community battle Ultracade and the upcoming iRoms service would be to help their only competitor in the roms-for-private-use area; StarROMS.
With this in mind, I emailed Frank Leibly of StarROMs (you can read an interview with him here) and asked him what the Mame community could do to help StarROMs and for his take on the situation.

With his permission, here is his response:

Paul while I'm thinking of it and since I really wanted to give you more in depth response anyway, let me suggest an idea to you.  The most important thing that the MAME community can do to help StarROMs is to help promote our service as a legitimate source of ROMs.  I realize our selection is limited but you see there is a kind of chicken and egg problem.  We need to show higher sales in order to acquire new licenses, and yet it's hard to generate large sales numbers with only a limited set of titles.  In our view a large percentage of MAME users are still using pirated ROMs.  Perhaps the rationale is that if you have to download some roms illegally, what is the value of downloading others legally.  We feel like we've received quite a bit of support from the MAME community, and we would like to be in a position to offer more support in return.  But the truth is that we have still not yet been universally accepted by and within the MAME community and there is a lot more that could be done to highlight StarROMs as a legal source for ROMS.  Honestly, I think David Foley is partially correct when he suggests (I'll paraphrase) that a lot of folks are at least implicitly, if not explicitly, encouraging illegal ROM distribution.

Clearly I'm biased, but I would love to see StarROMs more prominently highlighted as a legal source of ROMs on MAME related sites on the web, rather then pointing users in other directions, shall we say.   I honestly believe that if the MAME community were to universally embrace StarROMs and encourage MAME users to support us that our sales would sky-rocket and we could make much, much more compelling offers to game owners than we have been able to make thus far.  I understand that initially perhaps there was some concern that since StarROMs was a for profit venture, why should the MAME community embrace us as a solution.  We haven't tried to take a forceful approach to encouraging legal ROM use.  Instead we've taken the approach of letting users decide.  But the truth is it costs money to secure licenses and to hire lawyers to deal with, for example, the likes of Ultracade.  And a legal, commercial ROMs service such as StarROMs is in our view a very positive thing for the MAME community.

Let me suggest one other thing for your consideration and the consideration of others whom you may come into contact with.  Without StarROMs, I believe a fairly compelling case could be made by Ultracade or whomever that pretty much everything MAME related is illegal, since it is by and large used for illegal purposes.  MAME has never been put to this test but it seems possible and even perhaps likely that it will be in the future.  StarROMs has truly helped to legitimize this entire area, from a legal perspective, by offering a fully legal and compelling user experience with the games we offer.  With the Atari ROMs freely available from StarROMs (well, not free, but), it is quite reasonable to conclude that a large and substantial amount of the use of MAME is fully legal, something which could not previously be said.  StarROMs has never attempted to use a heavy hand to encourage the community to "come clean".  On the other hand if Ultracade were to become the only legal source for ROMS, I believe they would have a strong case, potentially, to "extract royalties" from anything and everything MAME related.   Clearly this is their intent, as evidenced by their actions.

In summary, perhaps if the MAME community were to collectively do some self policing, so to speak, highlighting the legal use of the product by encouraging people to use our service, rather then downloading ROMS illegally, this could prevent a situation longer term where David and his lawyers take on the "policing" role.  With greater support from the MAME community, I think there is a reasonable chance that together we can help preserve what has been created and build upon it's legitimacy rather then to see someone else hijack the entire market.

Thanks again for getting in touch Paul.

-Frank

[KevSteele]

Oh goodie.. here are the pics for the Ultracade Racing Sim:

Am I the only one who find "Press Start to Breed a New Horse" hilarious?

Perhaps I just have a sick mind...

Kevin

[Crazy Cooter]

I've contacted every distributor I can.

Any website I find that has an article about an Ultracade/Arcade Legends machine, I send an email pointing them to this thread with a nice message asking them to read it and post a link for their readers.

I got my local CostCo to remove an Arcade Legends machine.

[SNAAKE]

Foley is also using copy rigted artwork on his cabinet..someone wax him
I see ryu and ken on his cab..how that is not "copy right infrigment" is beyond me but I am sure he is telling people HE drew everything from SCRATCH.

DF gets the dumbass of the year..we should do WHATEVER it takes to stop this nonsense BS !

[RetroJames]

Oh goodie.. here are the pics for the Ultracade Racing Sim:

Am I the only one who find "Press Start to Breed a New Horse" hilarious?

Perhaps I just have a sick mind...

Kevin

BWAHAHAHAHA-LOL!

[Goz]

Perhaps it is based off of Foley's real life in which he has to pay to breed.

 

-Goz

Oh goodie.. here are the pics for the Ultracade Racing Sim:

Am I the only one who find "Press Start to Breed a New Horse" hilarious?

Perhaps I just have a sick mind...

Kevin

BWAHAHAHAHA-LOL!

[Gunstar Hero]

Wow, Mr. Ultracade sucks and all, but I dig that Street Fighter cab. 

LOL.  I wonder if SEGA will take Ultracade to task for "borrowing" DOC for their horse racing game... 

[KevSteele]

Foley is also using copy rigted artwork on his cabinet..someone wax him
I see ryu and ken on his cab..how that is not "copy right infrigment" is beyond me but I am sure he is telling people HE drew everything from SCRATCH.

I believe Ultracade has the legal rights to use the characters for the games they have licensed (that was one of their main points against EMDKay).

Kevin

[Crazy Cooter]

But do they have "exclusive" rights?  I think Foley is stretching his "authority".  That's why people should be challenging him when he say they can't do something.  He has to provide proof if asked.

[KevSteele]

But do they have "exclusive" rights?

[Crazy Cooter]

I really wish these companies would pull out of Ultracade.   I'm going to ask...

[rchadd]

Wow, Mr. Ultracade sucks and all, but I dig that Street Fighter cab.

i was thinking they look pretty good as well. i like the sideart.

[DrewKaree]

today announced the new hire of Fred Abadi.

*insert Kyle voice*

OH MY GOD!  THEY HIRED FREDSTER!

 

[IntruderAlert]

looks like Kevin's done for now

The Final Word...For Now

3/12/05: Wrapping Things Up

This is going to be my last update on the "MAME Trademark War."

check it out:
http://www.retroblast.com/index.php

[Chris]

He makes a good point about buying from StarROMs.  Ironically, any of us here wouldn't think twice about paying $80 for a trackball or $20 for a marquee or $100 for side art for our cabinets, but we always want our software for free.  (Myself included.)  If everyone on this forum bought even $10 worth of ROMs from StarROMs, that would add up in a hurry.

--Chris

[BackAgain]

What the heck, I'll throw in my $.02

[Crazy Cooter]

http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76627578+&action=Request+Status

Did Foley finally wisen up?

"Current Status: Abandoned: Applicant's express request."


edit:
The reason I noticed it is because I'm putting together something for a European magazine.

[KevSteele]

Allow me a Slim Pickens moment:

YeeeeHaaaaa! 

[DrewKaree]

What the heck, I'll throw in my $.02  (Hey! I just noticed my keyboard doesn't have the "cents" symbol!  How long has that been missing?)

They took it when they revamped keyboards in the mid 80's, along with the "any" key and the "Control" key my relatives keep telling me they don't have on their keyboards

[Crazy Cooter]

Look at Drew's sig, he knows.

Anyhow,

REMEMBER THIS:

[Chris]

There's no need to twist the knife... isn't there a high road to be taken somewhere?

[armax]

There is a high road, there is also a CYA road.  Consumers speak with their wallets.  I for one, have no problems boycotting a business if their intent was to cripple an industry.  That hurts the consumer in the long run.  What goes around, comes around.  I sincerely hope he reaps what he sows....

[IntruderAlert]

Allow me a Slim Pickens moment:

YeeeeHaaaaa! 

I agree..
YaaaaaHooooooo!!!

Aaron Giles' Home Page
March 14, 2005
MAME Trademark Update

I know a bunch of folks have been itching to know what's going on with the whole MAME trademark issue. Well, with the help of several prominent friends, we consulted a trademark attorney and decided to see if David Foley was up to his word.

Last week, Nicola's application began showing up in the USPTO database. Once that happened, I contacted Mr. Foley and asked him to abandon his claim to the trademark, which you can see he did.

So, what does this all mean? First, it means that the MAME trademark is in the hands of the people who really ought to own it.

Second, it means you can all end your hate mail campaigns against Ultracade and David Foley. Comments here which attack either will be deleted and users will be banned. There's really no sense in yelling and screaming; let's just all be adults about the matter (I realize that it's hard for some in this crowd, but please try).

Third, however, it means that some responsibility comes along with owning the trademark. In order to use the trademark, we are going to have to set up some rules under which it can be used. This is likely going to come in the form of, simply, "You must request explicit permission to use the MAME trademark."

Of course, permission will be given to many legitimate uses (still have to ask, though!) But there is indeed a growing commercial sector that is abusing the MAME name to make claims that aren't true without violating the law ("Play 1000s of arcade games!" -- yeah right, show me your license for that), and quite frankly, many of the MAME team members are as against that as Mr. Foley is.

We'll be announcing more details shortly, but the most likely end result is going to be: if you want to use the MAME name, you've got to get rid of your illegal ROM links, your information on how to buy/download illegal ROMs, and your claims that anything you sell will let you play 100s or 1000s of games (unless you've legitimately licensed them).

http://www.aarongiles.com/index.html