Author Topic: Discussion: Ultracade and the Mame Trademark (Read 124544 times)

Goz · « **Reply #600 on:** March 05, 2005, 08:53:24 pm »

I'll drink the fifth.... err plead the fifth on that.

-Goz

daywane · « **Reply #601 on:** March 06, 2005, 01:40:43 am »

wha hoo... found my old stomping grounds
join me here from time to time
http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=emuadvice

SNAAKE · « **Reply #602 on:** March 06, 2005, 04:20:16 am »

Um..wow look at this ultracade auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=6158036853&rd=1

"We have EVEN MORE of your
ALL TIME FAVORITE titles available - call for a complete list!

We will also CUSTOMIZE your ULTRACADE with the specific add-ons YOU WANT and offer "SPECIAL PRICING" on ALL add-ons purchased for your machine NOW and in the FUTURE!

BUY your ULTRACADE from US and enjoy DISCOUNTED add-on PRICING and TOLL FREE 24/7 SUPPORT & SERVICE for the LIFE of your machine!"

===================================

I bet he is running mame code under his own custom frontend.Like that dude selling "the time machine" cuz he runs his own frontend+mame and acts like he "CREATED" MAME.
Anyway,somebody is GOT to do something about this ultracade cakehole.We should keep bombing emails to ebay customer service or something.I mean seriouslly,how could you POSSIBLY be licencing "EVEN MORE OF THE CUSTOMER'S FAVORITE GAMES FOR SPECIAL PRICING"...........................

*HOOOUUUCHHHH* Oh I am sorry I am allergic to BULL$HIT !!!!

His auction description should have been something like this :
"we will add more ROMS on your MAME *cough* ultracade machine for special price.We will still sell the ROMS illegally but we will charge you special price for it and act like we are actually licencing the SPECIFIC customer requested games from the full list of games we cant post on auctions because people will know we are using MAME on our crappy ultracades"

SirPeale · « **Reply #603 on:** March 06, 2005, 07:44:38 am »

Quote from: SNAAKE on March 06, 2005, 04:20:16 am

Um..wow look at this ultracade auction.

That auction is for an Ultracade machine...but it's NOT run by Ultracade. That's an arcade store about 100 miles from me that sells machines. They've got hundreds of different machines in stock. It's a visual wonder to walk in and see it all...but most couldn't afford the prices he charges.

daywane · « **Reply #604 on:** March 06, 2005, 09:02:01 am »

I was at emuhelp last night I see thay are ready to pitch in some cash also.
I used to run the treasury at North West Phoenix Atari Club (NWPAC)
I do not know how everyone would like to handel this but if I can help I will.
I can start a bank acount and post the books daily.
No I do not want to rip anybody off before you say it. I want to fry Dave Foley

scatter · « **Reply #605 on:** March 06, 2005, 10:46:29 am »

Quote from: SNAAKE on March 06, 2005, 04:20:16 am

I bet he is running mame code under his own custom frontend.Like that dude selling "the time machine" cuz he runs his own frontend+mame and acts like he "CREATED" MAME.

Oddly enough I talked to "the time machine guy" yesterday (Sat) at an Auction over in TN. He doesn't really claim to have invented MAME, but his is proud of that silly menu...

-b

IntruderAlert · « **Reply #606 on:** March 06, 2005, 03:11:18 pm »

Kevin has updated his home page with some interesting information that everyone should read NOW!!!
http://www.retroblast.com/index.php#

Here's just one interesting part:

Quote

Here's an explaination direct from Mr. Foley:

"iROMs will be launching this summer. If we get some help from the MAME team, and keep it out of the commercial market (just as they claim is the intent in MAME.TXT) we will allow the roms to run on MAME machines. The model is much like iTunes. We'll have staggered pricing from $9.99 for titles like Defender or Street Fighter II, down as low as $0.99 for titles like Speed Coin.

Licenses will be for consumer, end user use only, no resale of roms, no public performance of ROMs, etc etc. We'll start with PC and MAC platforms, and then look at some of the handhelds such as GP32."

In order to protect this service, David Foley is planning an all-out assault on pirate ROM sites. As he puts it:

"We'll have the only legal means to get hundreds of games, AND, we will shut down every pirate site in the coming year. If people want them legally, they'll get them from us."

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #607 on:** March 06, 2005, 03:28:11 pm »

It's exactly how we thought.

APFelon · « **Reply #608 on:** March 06, 2005, 04:31:25 pm »

Y'know, after everything is said and done, I'm not to worried. The current owners of the Amiga brand tried crushing out the "piracy" of their 15 year old software, and they failed on a cataclysmic scale. (a side note- they also shut down porn sites with the word "amiga" (Spanish for female friend)) They have a lot more resources that Ultrawhatever, and their mission, aside from harassing sites with 10 Amiga disk images and pornographers, was a miserable failure.

Foley will do no better. He has essentially poisoned himself within the user base, and will have to rely on operators or the ignorant to make a profit. I doubt any MAME users will promote his product through word of mouth, no one will review it (or even bash it), and no MAME user will buy it.

If I were to make a wager, I would bet that his iRoms idea will sink faster than a solid gold boat filled with lead. It's as though he shot himself in the foot, and not satisfied with the results, proceeded to shoot himself in the kneecap, hip, torso, chest, neck, head and arms.

I'm really, really interested in the endgame. I'll pop the popcorn, you bring the beer.

APf

Goz · « **Reply #609 on:** March 06, 2005, 04:33:17 pm »

"We'll have the only legal means to get hundreds of games, AND, we will shut down every pirate site in the coming year. If people want them legally, they'll get them from us."

So Foley want's to create a monopoly an anti competitive market.

Foley = Microsoft Jr?

-Goz

quarterback · « **Reply #610 on:** March 06, 2005, 04:39:49 pm »

Quote from: APFelon on March 06, 2005, 04:31:25 pm

Foley will do no better. He has essentially poisoned himself within the user base, and will have to rely on operators or the ignorant to make a profit.

And it doesn't even look like iRoms will be legally usable by 'operators' anyway. Not that I believe everything/anything Foley claims, but he says "Licenses will be for consumer, end user use only, no resale of roms, no public performance of ROMs, etc "

So his only market is the home user who wants to play these games. He's not going to see one thin dime from me or many other current Mame users, so how does this guy think this business plan is going to succeed?

I think the answer is "because he plans on putting all Mame users out of bid'ness" but I really really don't see that happening. The RIAA hasn't gotten rid of illegal mp3s & Adobe and Microsoft haven't eliminated pirate software and they're all much bigger and more powerful than Foley.

I say we start the clock now and start taking bids on how long it takes before his iRoms idea fails

Pete Harcoff · « **Reply #611 on:** March 06, 2005, 05:41:50 pm »

Quote from: APFelon on March 06, 2005, 04:31:25 pm

Y'know, after everything is said and done, I'm not to worried. The current owners of the Amiga brand tried crushing out the "piracy" of their 15 year old software, and they failed on a cataclysmic scale.

Or the current fiasco with the music industry versus music pirates.

While he might be able to get some sites shut down or knock off some eBay auctions, he's hardly going to stop ROM piracy. The guy is dreaming.

itismejs · « **Reply #612 on:** March 06, 2005, 06:24:26 pm »

Quote from: Peale on March 06, 2005, 07:44:38 am

Quote from: SNAAKE on March 06, 2005, 04:20:16 am
Um..wow look at this ultracade auction.

That auction is for an Ultracade machine...but it's NOT run by Ultracade. That's an arcade store about 100 miles from me that sells machines. They've got hundreds of different machines in stock. It's a visual wonder to walk in and see it all...but most couldn't afford the prices he charges.

I bought my MAME cab from them. (it wasnt a
MAME machine when I bought it)

SirPeale · « **Reply #613 on:** March 06, 2005, 06:48:23 pm »

No kidding. That means you're not too far from me.

SNAAKE · « **Reply #614 on:** March 06, 2005, 08:52:36 pm »

Quote

If people want them legally, they'll get them from us."

Quote

What I dont understand is how exactly he is supposed to be the "owner" of all the roms supported by MAME ??

Somebody wanna explain

This David Fooley is seriouslly retarded if he is trying to get people to buy the very old games like sf2 and final fight via his iROM crap.Ultracades only has the rights to sell like what maybe 20-30 old games WITH their machines.I still dont understand how cabinet sellers on ebay is hurting his iROM business.People need to play legally then people will go buy the licence from him(for sf2 LOL).I choose to download all the roms cuz I think companies dont profit from them anymore and as an arcade addict,I have the rights to have all the games I want

Daniel270 · « **Reply #615 on:** March 06, 2005, 08:56:56 pm »

I just can't wait to see all the lawsuits line up for lost business

starting with emdkay, MAMEMarquees and Dream Arcades

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #616 on:** March 06, 2005, 10:22:59 pm »

I've been doing some research through federal publications & it looks like the MAME art logo is copyrighted by the original person that made it.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wccc
"Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright."

It falls under:
"pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works"

FYI:
"The 1976 Copyright Act defines publication as follows:

"Publication" is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending."

"Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U. S. origin."

To register a work, send the following three elements in the same envelope or package to:

Library of Congress
Copyright Office
101 Independence Avenue, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20559-6000

A properly completed application form.
A nonrefundable filing fee of $30 for each application.

--
So whoever made that graphic needs to send $30 in and then file an infringement suit against Foley. The suit will allow collection of all lost money. (like the money Emdkay and those other guys were *ahem*about to start paying for using that graphic). That will allow the printer guys to also file an infringement suit. That assumes that they have come to an agreement regarding royalties to the original author. I thought I heard a rumor it was like $30 or something.

I'm sure ya'll can work something out.

For additional information, request Publication No. 563 "How to Protect Your Intellectual Property Right," from: U.S. Customs Service, P.O. Box 7404, Washington, D.C. 20044.

mr.Curmudgeon · « **Reply #617 on:** March 06, 2005, 10:32:15 pm »

Quote from: APFelon on March 06, 2005, 04:31:25 pm

Y'know, after everything is said and done, I'm not to worried.

I think the thing a lot of people are missing here is the very real chance that Foley will bring the original ROMS owners sniffing around, since he's screaming so loud about profit and that may put a real chill into developers.

What I see happening, even after iROMS meets it's inevitable end, is that further progress on MAME will no longer be viable for Nicolas and the rest of the MAME dev team. It will just be too risky for them to continue, given the possible threat of lawsuits from ROM license holders. MAME exists, and has thrived, because no one else cared about the ROMS. Now that Foley has started the shakedown, it seems like only a matter of time before other morons are trying to bleed the community.

So sure, we'll be able to download all the current MAME roms from newsgroups, or whatever. We just won't see new games added anymore...and the program will go stagnant. They *may* even have to start cutting games out, so future versions of MAME may have *less* and less games, as opposed to more and more.

I hope I'm wrong.

mrC

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #618 on:** March 06, 2005, 11:31:04 pm »

I think you're right Mr. C. MAME has been creeping closer to ROM's that people "care about". Most of the "old" games are lost regarding who owns what. The newer games however... everyone knows who owns the rights to GT...

That's exactly why Foley's "business model" can't work. He can send letters and try to shut sites down, but people just have to request proof of ownership.

He's already admitted that he isn't selling the "actual" roms, because he said his won't work with MAME. So that means people can buy "his version" or get the real thing for free. That's why none of this has been pushed real hard before, there's no profit in it. Foley just thinks he can force one.

Boycott Arcade Legends and Ultracade

DrewKaree · « **Reply #619 on:** March 06, 2005, 11:43:35 pm »

Quote from: APFelon on March 06, 2005, 04:31:25 pm

If I were to make a wager, I would bet that his iRoms idea will sink faster than a solid gold boat filled with lead. It's as though he shot himself in the foot, and not satisfied with the results, proceeded to shoot himself in the kneecap, hip, torso, chest, neck, head and arms.

I'm really, really interested in the endgame. I'll pop the popcorn, you bring the beer.

* DrewKaree has his wife looking at him like he's deranged, he's laughing so hard

fredster · « **Reply #620 on:** March 07, 2005, 09:34:25 am »

I saw about 5 Ultracades at the Knoxville Auction.

They were in the $750 to $1100 range. One Daphne kinda game with Space Ace, etc went for $375 (I think).

There was a machine called the "Time Machine" that was Huge. Is that by Ultracade?

SirPeale · « **Reply #621 on:** March 07, 2005, 09:56:52 am »

IIRC a guy here made Time Machine, and has been making copies since. I could be wrong about that, but I definitely remember the artwork being discussed here.

rchadd · « **Reply #622 on:** March 07, 2005, 10:07:43 am »

is he really writing his own emulation software for his machines? is that really feasible to do?

has DF had known involvement in the emulation scene before or contributed to mame or previous emulation projects?

probably more likely to be ripping off mame and daphne project and efforts of their devs

i mean does his software emulate something that mame does not? does it offer better support for certain roms that mame does not? is there any similar evidence to suggest that it is all his own work (apart from a fancy menu system)?

in case of possible infringement of the mame source code licence agreement couldn't mame devteam legally make him submit his source code for review?

Gunstar Hero · « **Reply #623 on:** March 07, 2005, 11:23:05 am »

If "writing his own software" = "probably stealing MAME and every other emulator" then yes.

GGKoul · « **Reply #624 on:** March 07, 2005, 11:30:42 am »

Quote from: SNAAKE on March 06, 2005, 04:20:16 am

Um..wow look at this ultracade auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=6158036853&rd=1

"We have EVEN MORE of your
ALL TIME FAVORITE titles available - call for a complete list!

That didn't have the standard Ultracade panel. Someone added that...

GGKoul · « **Reply #625 on:** March 07, 2005, 11:39:59 am »

iRoms will never exist because Apple will sue DF for stealing their "i" marketing campaign to make a profit....

Also, why would people purchase from iRoms when most people can get roms for free or at minimal cost?

I have a feeling when Mame hits v1.00. Its going to stop...

RetroJames · « **Reply #626 on:** March 07, 2005, 12:17:45 pm »

IMHO - "iRoms" the name is a diversionary label. He would have to be dim to toss that name out without already having trademarked it. I suspect he does plan to try and sell roms to the home user, but I would be totally shocked if it happens under the "iRom" label.

Crazy Cooter · « **Reply #627 on:** March 07, 2005, 01:01:52 pm »

What I don't understand is this:
- MAME supports the EXACT arcade game.
- Foley's ROM's won't work with MAME.
- Foley can't be using the EXACT game then. It has to be recoded.

Why would anyone pay Foley for ROM's that aren't the real game? He wants $0.99 - $9.99 EACH!

Since it's not the real game anyhow, why don't I just buy one of those cd's at bestbuy etc that has 100 arcade games out of the $6.99 bin? I can play that on any computer, won't need his emulator (don't know how much that is), and I get more for my money, not to mention additional titles.

Who does he think is his target market?

GGKoul · « **Reply #628 on:** March 07, 2005, 01:09:02 pm »

Just read DF's replies to Kevin Steele's (Retroblast) questions.

GGKoul · « **Reply #629 on:** March 07, 2005, 01:12:55 pm »

Quote from: Crazy Cooter on March 07, 2005, 01:01:52 pm

Who does he think is his target market?

His target market is the people that already spent the $3000+ to get an Ultracade machine. As you'll need his machine to run roms purchased from iRoms.

Since Ultracade is just software. I can't wait for someone to hack/crack/emulate Ultracade. I can't imagine it'll be that hard or it'll be that big that it couldn't be traded around the world in a matter of seconds.

GGKoul · « **Reply #630 on:** March 07, 2005, 01:18:50 pm »

Also if money is needed to start a MAME legal fund.

SNAAKE · « **Reply #631 on:** March 07, 2005, 02:09:55 pm »

Quote from: GGKoul on March 07, 2005, 01:09:02 pm

Just read DF's replies to Kevin Steele's (Retroblast) questions.

APFelon · « **Reply #632 on:** March 07, 2005, 06:03:37 pm »

Quote from: mr.Curmudgeon on March 06, 2005, 10:32:15 pm

I think the thing a lot of people are missing here is the very real chance that Foley will bring the original ROMS owners sniffing around, since he's screaming so loud about profit and that may put a real chill into developers.

I would be more willing to believe this scenario if there was a precident behind it. The emulation of copyrighted software is not very "underground" anymore like it was in the early days, and I'm sure every prominent (and not so prominent) software house is aware of emulation.

I suppose a profit motive would incite some companies to act, but I think they look at the profitability of compilation CDs and figure the cost to profit ratio isn't significant enough to waste resources trying to obliterate ROM images from the Internet (which would be like trying to empty the ocean with a collander) or targeting emulation software developers (especially after the costly lesson Sony learned from the Bleem incident).

Foley isn't the Pied Piper of Hamlin, he is a two-bit cabinet salesman whose fifteen minutes of fame started ticking away when he decided to irritate the emulation community. He isn't going to persuade ROM copyright holders to assail emulation developers unless he can turn a HARDY profit of corporate perportions. And like I said, the emualtion community thinks of him as a festering turd in the swimming pool and won't send him a dime for the iRoms project or anyone else. I think the chances of him turning any REAL profit is narrow.

APf

daywane · « **Reply #633 on:** March 07, 2005, 07:50:36 pm »

Quote from: SNAAKE on March 07, 2005, 02:09:55 pm

Quote from: GGKoul on March 07, 2005, 01:09:02 pm
Just read DF's replies to Kevin Steele's (Retroblast) questions.

Havok · « **Reply #634 on:** March 07, 2005, 09:32:25 pm »

This won't be on ebay for long:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=4532152110&rd=1

Foleyhole owns the rights to mame - even if the application hasn't been approved, and he didn't create it. Oh, and don't forget - he owns the rights to an image he didn't create too!

Down with all things mame!

SirPeale · « **Reply #635 on:** March 07, 2005, 09:45:00 pm »

Quote from: daywane on March 07, 2005, 07:50:36 pm

Quote from: SNAAKE on March 07, 2005, 02:09:55 pm
Quote from: GGKoul on March 07, 2005, 01:09:02 pm
Just read DF's replies to Kevin Steele's (Retroblast) questions. And the guy is making it seem he ALREADY owns MAME and he owns every game ever developed.

That is EXACTLY what I said.I mean...how dumb can this DF can POSSIBLY be...................................
as dumb as a box of rocks

Sharp as a marble, quick as a tree!

GGKoul · « **Reply #636 on:** March 08, 2005, 12:06:51 am »

Can we get this thread deleted please.. just in case...

Megaweapon · « **Reply #637 on:** March 08, 2005, 01:18:23 am »

Quote from: GGKoul on March 08, 2005, 12:06:51 am

Can we get this thread deleted please.. just in case...

I have to ask...

In case of what?

rchadd · « **Reply #638 on:** March 08, 2005, 06:02:33 am »

is this the longest thread there has been on BYOAC?

Santoro · « **Reply #639 on:** March 08, 2005, 07:01:07 am »

I think so. The longest used to be the token design thread - I am too lazy to search for it but I think that was 12-15 pages.


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