Anyone sold their house FSBO?

[GameOver]

Has anyone sold their house w/o a realtor?  Was it difficult to do?  Did you just need to pay a real estate attorney extra for this?  I know you generally don't get to list on MLS if you do this, but I don't think that would be a huge problem in our market.  I just can't see paying 6% (or negotiate 5%) for the transaction.

Anyone?

[menace]

Our neighbours (in canada) listed with an outfit called realty sellers--for $800 they handle your mls listing as well as the offers--beats the hell out of 5 or 6 grand for a real estate agent that does not do that much work--i have to work 4-5 months to make that kind of scratch and they make it by walking you through my house and filling in some forms--BS i say.

oh yeah their house sold in 2 days.

[GGKoul]

It all depends on how desireable your area is.  I mean, you could list it privately if I lived in a hot area.  As it wouldn't take much effort for it to sell.  But if lived in a non-hot area, it may need some extra advertising to get it sold.  And thats what a realtor can do.

[Crazy Cooter]

Call an attorney.  Should be under $1000 for the papers.  For advertising, put an ad in the paper and hold your own open house.  Put up signs down the road (follow city ordinances).

If your house is priced right, and you advertise, it should sell itself.

[zaphod]

Go to your local office store and pick up the packet of Real Estate sales forms.  One example: http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=250648

Or go online and do a search for these forms.  Or check out the Dummy's Guide to Selling your Home (I think that's right).  There are only a few simple (but necessary forms).   Pick up the signage materials from Lowes/Menards, etc and post your own For Sale sign and/or Open House sign.

IMO, save your $1000.   You will have to spend some to get it sold (ads and materials) but you'll likely end up with FAR more in your pocket that going through an agent.  It'll just take a little more effort on your part.

[Zakk]

Selling your home FSBO is like going to vegas, lots of people try, but only a few come off lucky.   
Your home is possibly the most valuable asset you will ever own.  Selling it yourself without knowing the dangers and pitfalls can be stressful and costly.  Hey, knock yourself out, and if I can help with any advice, feel free to ask.  However, I fully believe in the value of a -good- qualified agent.

Oh, and call me what you want Menace, I've heard worse from better 

[menace]

Oh, and call me what you want Menace, I've heard worse from better

wtf??? I've read my post a few times and I don't recall slaggin you.  And here I thought you were one of the nice normal guys....

[Zakk]

Oh, and call me what you want Menace, I've heard worse from better

wtf??? I've read my post a few times and I don't recall slaggin you.

[GameOver]

Zaphod - Great idea, don't know why I didn't think of office max/depot, also the 'dummy' books.  Very good - thanks.

Zakk - sounds like you've had some tough luck this week & other times.  I'm sorry to hear that.  I know people can be very difficult to deal with.  I've bought 4 properties & sold 2 over the past 7 years, all using a professional agent.  Each time I had less than 6 hours interaction with the agent.  I don't know this, mebbe you can help out, but will guess these agents spent about the same amount of time on their own for my cause. 

Ok, so that's @12hrs committment by the agent.  Each transaction netted the agent & their company at least 3% of the action.  So for the 2  properties I've sold,  I've paid @12k for about 24hrs of work.  That's $500hr.  I know the agent doesn't get all of this, but I paid for all of this.  It just seems (on the surface anyway) that I could do this myself, with help from an attorney to cover my ash.  Or at least try!  I'm just trying to solicit feedback from others that may have done this or know someone who has.

[JackTucky]

Our house lists for $600K.  My wife just listed it in the paper, to run tomorrow for 10 days for $150.  After talking to a realtor, and realizing I had to pay her $30K to sell it, and all she would do is list it and put a key on my door, I decided I had to go for it.  I hope it works out.  I want out, soon.

Art (Moving to Indiana)

[Crazy Cooter]

My post about the $1000 with a lawyer holds the same water as Zakks insurance.  Just depends on if you want to advertise or have someone (realtor) do the legwork for you.  Figure ~$300 to get it appraised, another $500 for ads & crap.  Total is less than $2k.

Beats the hell out of $30,000 (5% of 600k).  Pull it off... free car.

Not to rip on you personally Zakk, but I think the real estate industry as a whole needs to lower it's cut with the increase of home values lately.  If they don't, I think the trend is going to lean more and more towads DIY'ers.

JT, call around for one of the realtor companies that will "hold your hand" and get it on the Multiple Listing Service.  Even if it costs a few bucks, many many more people will see it.  Make sure you state when the open house is too.  THAT's what sells a house (and invites your neighbors over).  Print out some flyers for the post at the end of the driveway too.  LOT's of people drive around looking at houses.

[Zakk]

Seriously, best of luck to all of you.

[Zakk]

My post about the $1000 with a lawyer holds the same water as Zakks insurance.

[MameMaster!]

...I just put my house up for sale in the US using Coldwell Banker.

We interviewed a few agents (National & Local companies in NJ)....but I agree 100% w/Zakk. These guys (Real Estate Agents) can anticipate/deal with the inevitable pitfalls that are sure to ensue w/selling your home....including the guy that's going to waste your time low balling and those that can't get a mortgage...and they know they can't but go through the whole process anyway!!! (from what I've read this is very, very common!).

I recommend buying "Selling your House for Dummies". I know it's goofy...but it tells you the deal in plain English. It's a quick read....and worth looking over if you're selling.

Good Luck!...my first Open House is this weekend....I hope we get at least close to what we want!!!

 

[Kremmit]

I won't say you shouldn't do it, but I will offer a cautionary tale:

The people across the street from me recently sold FSBO.  The new owners promptly rented the house out to some dirtbags with like 10 cars (really!), and when I say cars, I mean a mix of cars and big dirty pickups with body parts missing (again, really!).  The dirtbag renters have been parking the trucks on the lawns, front and back.  These lawns used to be absolutely gorgous gardens, the view from my front window used to look like a park- now it looks like a parking lot at Fat Bubba's Ribs 'n Bait.

The sellers are involved in the eviction process now.  The "renters" claim they paid their rent, why should they leave?  Meanwhile, the new "owners" haven't been paying the sellers- they claim financing difficulties with their bank.  The sellers have got no money for the 4 or so  months their house was "sold", and you know that place is trashed inside.  Once they get the "renters" out, they'll have to clean the whole place up again, before they can re-list. 

They say they're using an agent this time.

[Zakk]

Good example of a situation an agent wouldn't have touched with a ten foot pole.  When you say the people who 'bought' it haven't been making payments, I suppose that means they are utilizing a vendor takeback mortgage?  Probably because a bank wouldn't finance the buyers, which means the sellers shouldn't have either... tough situation for everyone, YOU most of all since you have to stare at the trash all day (literally and figuratively)

[GameOver]

Got some great feedback, thanks to all.  What we've found over the past several weeks is it seems it will cost us more to move & downsize than to stay put.  That's crazy, but the state of the market apparently dictates this.  Real estate has just gone thru the roof the last several years (some might argue it's about the only thing that's kept this economy going, but that's for another post).  We're not sure what we're gonna do at this point, still looking around.

Regarding the seller that got stuck in the process of evicting the new 'tennants', sounds like more of a financing problem than a FSBO problem.  Two seperate things IMO.  They apparently didn't have any trouble selling FSBO, but their choice of helping the buyer finance the deal is their issue.  I'm a nice guy but not that nice!  That introduces too much risk.

[DrewKaree]

Hey dere I seen some pikshures of that c***sucker agent's house, and he makes me wish I could sell housese too!   

NAH!  I'm tellin' ya, Zakk's got a skill, because - think about it - all the headaches you are going to experience selling your house yourself, he goes through ALL - THE - TIME!

I had a buddy who tried to do it and save himself the $2500 and do it.  His house was in a fairly decent area, desireable city location as well (local fire and police HAVE to live in that city), and at a price that was several thousand UNDER market value for his area (he got a STEAL on the property and we helped him fix up so much stuff for cheap, it was worth AT LEAST market value - more on that to follow) so he could sell and move to the 'burbs.

After 3 months with exactly THREE walk-throughs, he decided to bite the bullet and list with an agent.  First week, 4 walk-throughs, 1 offer.  Second week, SIX walk-throughs, 2 offers.  EACH of these offers was for MINIMUM of 2k OVER current market value (what the realtor put as list price) and he took the highest offer (obviously) that was 7k over list price, due to the competition between the three prospective buyers.  He ended up paying LESS than he thought he would in fees, and was out of the house by the end of the month.  They had already bought the house in the 'burbs and were looking at paying TWO mortgages, instead, they sold for more than 10k what they were trying to sell it themselves for.

Sometimes, you DO get what you pay for.

Now, if we were talking about c***sucker INSURANCE agents.....

Heh well I can't say I'm normal 

Beat me to it, ya did!

I found out the guy is on welfare, so I'm going back to heckle him tomorrow.  :sigh:

I didn't know you were a conservative! 

[fredster]

It's not too bad to sell it FSBO if you have the time.  I did once, but it took a lot of time. I don't know if I got the best price either, but I had a motivated buyer.

I do suggest that whatever you do you discuss it with a lawyer. There is a papertrail you want to make, and if you owe a mortgage you need to get that taken care of with the title company. 

It takes some time to show the house and the biggest thing is making sure that the people you show it to can actually buy it.  At least with a realtor, they do screen some before they bring people by. 

But it's not very complicated.  They got the money, you got the house. It's the paperwork and waiting that's the big hassle.

Realtors can give you a wider market and 5% isn't that bad if they can get you 10% more than you could have. Besides, it doesn't cost you if they Don't sell it in the listing period.

[Zakk]

The one big plus to selling with a Realtor: We have the buyers.  It doesn't cost the buyers anything to use our services (okay, our fee is in the price of the house, but simplifying here).  So, since we are 'free' to the buyers, they tend to use us to find houses, shuttle them around, be a bit of a sounding board, etc etc etc.  So let's say I'm driving around with these nice financially qualified buyers, and there are two homes in the area.  Your FSBO, and the MLS listed property. The listed one that tells me that the seller is under contract to pay me X% in commission, there is a lockbox on the house so I can go in, AND (this is the BIG one), the sellers won't be there when we go through.  I tell you, there is nothing that will kill a sale quicker than having a seller standing over your shoulder telling you how lovely the mint green shag carpet is, and how they just knew if they kept it long enough it wold come back in style. 

Which house do you think I'm going to take my buyers through? 

[Zakk]

Hey dere I seen some pikshures of that c***sucker agent's house, and he makes me wish I could sell housese too!

[DrewKaree]

Zakk, what's up with that linky?  I was thinking "If THAT hoser thinks it's a sweet house, I GOTTA see what this thing looks like!" and it won't let me take the virtual tour?

Are you sending us to a site that discriminates against evil 'mercans or what?

I wanna see this thing...at least to see how big the houses with wheels on 'em are up there 

[Zakk]

Hmm, must be a browser issue, loads up fine in my Microsoft approved browser

[Chris]

My wife is a realtor, and she absolutely works her tail off.  Remember, these people don't get paid a dime until there's a transaction.  She had one couple drag her around looking at houses almost every weekend for a YEAR, and just as they were about to nail down a house, they decided to buy a new car and a bunch of furniture so they couldn't get a loan.  She got paid ZERO for all that work.  We're in Georgia, so we're not talking about 40,000 commissions... she gets 500-600 per house after everyone gets their cut, and she's working at least some hours seven days a week.  Holidays?  That's when everyone is off work so that's when everyone wants to see houses.  People have problems with their house after they move in?  They don't call the builder, or their home warranty company.  They call my wife, usually at 10:30 at night.  She'll spend hours working with a couple as they argue over selections for vinyl and paint colors as their 5 kids tear her office to shreds.

Anyone who says realtors don't earn their commisions should try it for a week.

--Chris

[Zakk]

Thanks Chris, the $100 is in the mail.  OOOOPS!  This was supposed to be a private message!!!!

Nothing to see here, everyone go on aboot your business! 

[GGKoul]

Hmm, must be a browser issue, loads up fine in my Microsoft approved browser

[mattv]

My father was the head of the Real Estate Institute of New Zealand; I used to work in the office in the holidays at college. This is a government funded body in my country that is responsible for maintaining control over and disciplining real estate agents in this country. You cannot  act as a real estate agent in Nez Zealand without a valid licence from the Real Estate Institute, you can still sell property privately if you own the property yourself, but acting as an agent to sell other peoples property without a licence will land you in prison for five years

Anyway, so the real estate instuite licences all of the real estate agents and is responsible for their behaviour, if you have a problem with the actions of any agent in the country you can complain to the institute who will investigate and act if appropriate. Actions can range form a fine up to $1 million per complaint to withdrawing your real estate licence (remember you can't sell without a licence, this will mean that you loose your current job and will NEVER work in real estate again, a licence that has been withdrawn cannot be reinstated).
There are some people who argue that the real estate instute has too much power and I think they are right but that's the way it is here right now.

There are about 6000 licensed agents in this country and last year there were nearly 500 complaints, 300 of them were upheld and almost 70 real estate agents had their licence withdrawn (were banned from the real estate industry for life).

So the point of this is that real estate agents have a certain reputation, and based on the numbers in my country they deserve that reputation.

But let me tell you this - Even the worst, sleaziest, scummiest real estate agent that ever lived cannot come CLOSE to some of the crazy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- that people selling their house privately can pull. Some of the stories we used to hear would make you either laugh or cry.

At least three cases that I know of the seller took the money and disappeared, admittedly they took advantage of the buyer

[GameOver]

Man you guys are scaring me!  That's some crazy crap!  Really, how would drug dealers move into my house while I'm still livin here?  I know they're a sneaky bunch but they couldn't get past ol' stinky (that's my dead hamster).

Some people have crazy stuff happen to them.  The craziest luck I've ever had was findin' a $20 on the pavement after gettin' my single w/cheese from Wendy's...I guess I've been sheltered.  Maybe I should start doing drugs?   

[Zakk]

Hmm, must be a browser issue, loads up fine in my Microsoft approved browser

[Zakk]

Mattv - Here we have RECO the Real Estate Council of Ontario.  They are our policing body.  Almost the same powers as you are talking about.  In fact, if you do something bad HERE, they not only act against you, they put it on the public website.  Kind of like Ebay feedback    You want to find out if the agent you are dealing with has had a run in with RECO?  Check the handy website!  Some of the findings against agents are hilarious.   One huy got a huge fine because he painted his name on the forsale signs with reflective paint (your name can't be more prominent than the Broker that you work for afterall). 
 It's a whole different business than it was years ago.  It's funny, there are these old-skool guys that won't learn new material or regulations and quote "I've been doing this for 30 years, I don't need to know any more damn regulations!".  These guys are losing their licenses big time.  The old cartels are being swept away.  It's better for the whole profession in my opinion.  As someone stated, we make good money, and we SHOULD be held 100% responsible for our actions.

http://www.reco.on.ca/ccd_salespersons.htm

As for big house scams, the latest we've been briefed on are personality hijackings.  People get enough info/paperwork to appear to be the valid seller of a property.  They get the payment for the house and disappear, leaving the buyers of the house with a house they don't actually own.  Messy messy stuff.

[DarkKobold]

Zakk: You have to be kidding me. That one house, while its front was nice.... It looked to be in a cookie cutter neighborhood, and that media room sucked... Projection screen in a well lit, windowed room? 

Ok, so I'm 24, living in an apt, and have no idea about property value and housing value.  So I have no reason to make a judgement, other than, blech.   

But 1.3 mil? That is a lot of cash. A lot. Like, a ton. It didn't errr, do anything for me. I figure for 1.3 mil it should be on a beach with lots of hot girls sun bathing every day.

[mattv]

Haven't seen too many drug house scams for a while

"P" (methamphetimine) is the drug of choice for the gangs now cause it can be cooked up in a matter of hours from cold and flu medicine. They rent a house, or even a motel / hotel room, cook up their crap and take off that day.

Unfoirtunalty one of the by-products of making P is massive amounts of hightly toxic chemicals, so the owner of the house/motel normally has a massive cleanup bill, needs to strip the carpet, wall lining and cealing to get the place back into a livable state.


All of which has nothing to do with private house sales, but it's interesting

[Zakk]

Darkk - Heh, you gotta see the thing to appreciate it.

[DrewKaree]

As someone stated, we make good money, and we SHOULD be held 100% responsible for our actions.

Whatever Zakk....or should I say "Oleksandr Evaniuk"  (sorry...YOU gave us the ammunition....that was like giving a gun to TA Pilot!  It's GOTTA get used!)

Anyhoo, on the house, I agree, kinda plain Jane, but I DEFINITELY like the staircase and upper landing, and I can see that the house CAN look better than it does in there, but I'm betting it looks like that for generic decorating purposes for the sale.

My quibble is with the landscaping, and perhaps that pic wasn't a good representation.  Not TERRIBLE, but it looks like the work people with 80,000 houses pay for.  I could be wrong, but if the rest of the work looks better, I'd have taken a picture of THAT! 

Still, I'm with you on that one - Daddy likey!

[Zakk]

Whatever Zakk....or should I say "Oleksandr Evaniuk"

[DrewKaree]

After caving in and opening IE (and probably infecting myself with some as-yet-unknown spyware/infection that's a pain in the arse to remove ) I have to say - for a mil and a quarter house, that landscaping is....on a scale of 1 to 10 - --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules---ugly!  Half the backyard in painted mulch?  The front yard is nice, if unspectacular, but that backyard gives me a hard-off!

As for the rest of the tour, the kitchen looked booty from the still, but the virtual tour REALLY made that thing stand out to me!  VERY nice!  The foyer is a bit bland (cries out to be turned into an "open-air" arcade setup), but man, that staircase....whoo!  It looks WAY nicer with the virtual tour (still bland, but I'm no dunce as to why) and you're right, that courtyard is sweet! 

And if you were such a rube that you'd be going aboot SHOVELING that courtyard, you DESERVE the back pain!  That thing SCREAMS for a riding mower with snow-blower attachment!  WOOHOO!  More "man toys"!

I like going house-hunting, even if I ain't gonna buy....I've got a hookup for tickets to the yearly open house home-show subdivisions local builders put on each year....if I could sell houses, it'd be my dream job! 

Zakk, I_{hate you}think you're lucky to enjoy a job you can do well!   

[Zakk]

Heh, okay yeah the yard was a bit of a letdown.  Did I mention that my yard has a nice view of the valley and peoples that dwell at the bottom of my cliff? 

Oh...I did? 

[SirPeale]

Speaking of real estate, Paige started an interesting thread here:

KLOV Forums Thread

[GGKoul]

Zakk: You have to be kidding me. That one house, while its front was nice.... It looked to be in a cookie cutter neighborhood, and that media room sucked... Projection screen in a well lit, windowed room?

[GGKoul]

Speaking of real estate, Paige started an interesting thread here:

KLOV Forums Thread

You can't find a $20,000 house where I live...