Santa's birthday rocks!

[Apollo]

Well we have just had christmas morning here in New Zealand, ha ha we beat you all to it again this year.
This is the special time of year where we celebrate the birth of Santa and I got the best presents ever from my wife, she's awesome!
1 XBOX Limited Edition crystal console with 2 controllers, memory card and DVD remote and a Sony W1 digital camera with 256MB card. I couldn't believe it. I hope everyone gets and gives cool presents and I wish everyone a fantastic new year for 2005.

[paigeoliver]

Christmas isn't the birth of SANTA. It is the birth of Jesus!

[Apollo]

Cmon Paige I thought you had a better sense of humour than that. It's from the Simpsons.

[Magnet_Eye]

Christmas isn't the birth of SANTA. It is the birth of Jesus!

It's a known fact that Jesus wasn't born on december 25th. The christians adopted the day to make the "transistion" for pagans easier since they celebrated the winter solstice (birth of the sun) that day.

Almost everything about xmas is pagan ritual, i love it! 

[crashwg]

I HATE RELIGEON!  I HATE CHRISTMAS!  I HATE JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!

[Magnet_Eye]

I HATE RELIGEON!  I HATE CHRISTMAS!  I HATE JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING!!!

YAY! 

[Xiaou2]

   In case you didnt realize... if you move the letters arround:

 S A  N T A =
 S A  T A N

  Darn red devil ; )

  I also love how the first big lesson in life a kid learns is how his own parents can make him believe in a lie.   lol

 Ahh well.  Its the good spirit that counts.   Happy Holidays : )
 

[Apollo]

Well if you move the letters in Jesus Christ around you get "such jest sir".

[pointdablame]

Well if you move the letters in Jesus Christ around you get "such jest sir".

Really makes ya think, doesn't it.

[Gunstar Hero]

No, not really. 

[pointdablame]

No, not really. 

Must be the egg nog then. 

[Gunstar Hero]

Maybe... 

[aristotle]

Pffft, I hate Christmas.  Such a pointless holiday.  As for Christmas being the birth of Jesus, then why does it have so many pagan rituals, lol?  Pfft, Christmas...Bah Humbug.  I just hope the Jehovah's Witnesses don't decide to come to the neighborhood and try to save everyone from themselves.

Hahaha, like MagnetEye said.   Not to mention that there is no evidence for existence of Jesus Christ or that such events ever transpired that involved Angels popping out of the sky and singing and bright stars and what not.  Such disturbing and unusual events would have been recorded by other cultures as well.  But, there is nothing.  Nada.  So I hope everyone has a happy pagan celebration!

[Gunstar Hero]

Yeah, Merry Christmas to you too! 

[SeaMonkey]

I am going to start saying "Happy Holidays" on Martin Luther King Day. Making any mention of the man offends me...because he was a minister....and I am so liberal that even the mention of the 10 Commandments makes my skin start to smoke. BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Not to mention that there is no evidence for existence of Jesus Christ

Aristotle, that will have to stay YOUR little secret, as he is documented in texts outside of the Bible.
And for the pagans....well they started it didn't they? The cycle of hate and violence I mean. Sure there was the inquisition, but where did the Kristjuns learn such behavior? Oh from the pagans. Worshipers of Diana (Romans) that threw Kristjuns to lions for sport, crusifixion which must smart something awful.....  On the murder board, pagans are way ahead of Kristjuns in points.

Merry Christmas!

(Kristjun would be the Middle-Eastern transliteration of the word, since it did originate in the Middle-East after all.)

[RayB]

As crassly commercial as it is, I have to admit that I like the fact that most people at least remember to be a little nicer round this time of year and exchanging gifts is fun.

[danny_galaga]

Not to mention that there is no evidence for existence of Jesus Christ

Aristotle, that will have to stay YOUR little secret, as he is documented in texts outside of the Bible.

ermmmm:

http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html

[DrewKaree]

Not to mention that there is no evidence for existence of Jesus Christ

Give Lee Strobel a call.  He may wish to talk to you.  At length.

[danny_galaga]

were'd you get that gif of my sister, drew? i feel so wrong now. my eyes burn...

[eyal8r]

I really don't want to get into any religious debates here- but, I gotta say something.

No matter whether you agree with Christmas and the Christianity beliefs of what brought on Christmas, it can't be all too terrible of a thing where one day out of the year, most of our world treats eachother nicer, with more respect and love. Honestly, I fear what our world would be like without that one day. It doesn't take much to create a grande result, one way or another. September 11, there were 13 people who changed our world forever. 13! Look at the tremendous effect those few people full of hate and anger had on our world. Now, compare that to the millions of people celebrating this one day in the name of love, caring and respecting eachother. Whether you agree with the background of Christmas or not, it's more the principle of what it represents that is important.

ok- moral lesson over now.  Happy Holidays to everyone, no matter what your beliefs!
D

[Minwah]

Whether you agree with the background of Christmas or not, it's more the principle of what it represents that is important.

Exactly.  I'm not religious (although I seem to be refered to as 'Jesus' at times, purely for my appearance) but the Christmas spirit is certainly well intended for most

Plus I support anything that gets me a few days off work 

BTW what is 'egg nog'?  I heard Grandma once drank too much of it at Xmas, but I have no idea what it is.  Us English tend to drink too much beer and whiskey at Xmas, much like the rest of the year really 

Happy Xmas!

[eyal8r]

Dude, Min, if you haven't had any egg nog before, you CERTAINLY are missing out on the Christmas Spirit!  LOL!!!  It's damn good stuff!  Sometime people will add a little 'extra' ingrediants to it to give it, or them, a little extra 'kick'... 

[RacerX]

I've seen this guy's presentation live (he's a professor here at Texas A&M), and it is quite impressive.  If you ever get the chance to check it out, I highly recommend it, whether you believe in Christ or not.  It's amazing from both an astronomical and a spiritual standpoint.

http://www.bethlehemstar.net/

Paige, if you can make it over to Lawrence, Kansas on January 27 or 28, 2005 at 7.00 p.m. at University of Kansas, Lied Center, I guarantee it will be worth your while.

[JackTucky]

I received a USB DVD Burner (I'm a notebook guy), and plenty of gift certificates, enough to cover my planned Portable air compressor purchase.

Plus, Reeses peanut butter cups and skittles 

BTW, egg nog is nasty stuff to me.  But the right kind IS made with booze.

Art

[DarkKobold]

I'd just like to say two things.

Merry Crimbo everybody!

Reesees Peanut Butter Trees make Xmas so much better.

I can't count.

[hulkster]

Christianity is based largely on faith, so if you dont have faith in Jesus and the Bible and all that, then please dont comment. 

and to really throw a weird statement into the mix about the existence of something just because a only a few people witnessed it...heres an example....

today at lunch i ate quizno's while listening to the black crowes on my new mp3 player.  now there were only 3 people around me to watch me eat the sandwich and listen to the song to which i told them what i was listening to.  so because only 3 people knew i was listening to the black crowes, does that make that event in my life untrue?  i dont guess i could prove it because my mp3 player doesnt have a "recently listened to" list or file, but i do have 3 witnesses that said i did.  and say they wrote it down, and you read it....would you not believe it?  its kinda the same thing...you have to believe or have faith (in a way) that i did what i said i did.  same thing with Christianity.  many people account the existence of Christ and His miracles, and they wrote it down in some fashion, and i choose to believe it.  whether you do or not, doesnt mean it never happened.  i have faith it did, so therefore, for me, and many others....it did.

[danny_galaga]

not weird at all. say 3 people wrote about it 50-100 years after it happened. thats the new testament. statements questioning the existance of jesus are just logical conclusions.

as a matter of faith. yes. i dont bother anyone believing what they want. but as a point of history, well....

[SeaMonkey]

not weird at all. say 3 people wrote about it 50-100 years after it happened. thats the new testament. statements questioning the existance of jesus are just logical conclusions.

as a matter of faith. yes. i dont bother anyone believing what they want. but as a point of history, well....

Flavius Josephus the historian documents Jesus. Josephus was born in either 37 or 38 A. D. When he was 26 years old, he took upon himself the mission of seeking to improve the relations between the Jews and the Romans. He was a historian who was highly respected by the Roman world. He was held in such high regard that he was allowed to accompany Titus when Titus led the Romans Army against Jerusalem (70 A. D.). Josephus wrote several books that have come down to us today, History of the Jewish War (seven different books) and Jewish Antiquities, to name some. Josephus WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN himself. We read:

"At that time lived Jesus, a wise man, if he may be called a man; for he performed many wonderful works. He was a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure

[hulkster]

i cant believe you guys are questioning the existence of Jesus.  wow.  im out on this one, i just know im right and in the end ill be a better person for it.  if im right i go to heaven/paradise, if im wrong nothing happens and i die like everyone else....so wheres the bad side?  curious.   

[danny_galaga]

not weird at all. say 3 people wrote about it 50-100 years after it happened. thats the new testament. statements questioning the existance of jesus are just logical conclusions.

as a matter of faith. yes. i dont bother anyone believing what they want. but as a point of history, well....

Flavius Josephus the historian documents Jesus. Josephus was born in either 37 or 38 A. D. When he was 26 years old,

like i say, 50-100 years after the fact...

[danny_galaga]

i cant believe you guys are questioning the existence of Jesus.

[hulkster]

you have no proof that he didnt exist.  show me proof.  i already have mine (a whole friggin book, and if you dont think its valid then thats your problem). 

i cant believe you guys are questioning the existence of Jesus.  wow.  im out on this one, i just know im right and in the end ill be a better person for it.  if im right i go to heaven/paradise, if im wrong nothing happens and i die like everyone else....so wheres the bad side?  curious.   

and were you to be a budhist, you could say the same thing- but at least there's no hell!

that is exactly my point...Christianity is the only religion to my knowledge with eternal consequences for your actions....so you just re-iterated my point.  if im right, i dont go to Hell, if im wrong, nothing happens.  win-win

[danny_galaga]

burden of proof is on the claimant.

like i say, i'm not touching on faith here. that is a matter for each person. you have your view, i have mine. that jesus might be in your heart i have no doubt, but i'm talking about accuracy of history. fact- not faith.
i have a 'whole friggin book' of the king james bible. i have a whole book of mormon, a whole book of the new world translation, a whole book of the quran and a whole book of falun gong. that last is a doozy, such a laugh. the guy actually believes david copperfield to be a falun gong 'wizard'! anyway, just because it's written in one book doesn't make it so. i also have 'the hobbit' kicking around somewhere...

[Grasshopper]

i cant believe you guys are questioning the existence of Jesus.  wow.  im out on this one, i just know im right and in the end ill be a better person for it.  if im right i go to heaven/paradise, if im wrong nothing happens and i die like everyone else....so wheres the bad side?  curious.   

Interesting.

So what you're saying is that when you behave like a good christian by doing good deeds, going to church etc, you're not necessarily actually being genuinely altruistic but simply acting out of self-interest (i.e. you want to increase your chances of going to heaven).

Conversely, if atheists are good people all of their life, presumably they are still denied the opportunity to go to heaven simply because they didn't believe in god.

And what happens to the people who had the misfortune to be born into a non-christian culture and end up believing, through no fault of their own, in the wrong type of god or gods e.g. Muslims, Jews etc? Are those people also denied access to heaven?

If 'god' wants people to believe in him so much that he's prepared to bribe people with the promise of a place in heaven, then why doesn't he provide concrete evidence for his existence?

[hulkster]

So what you're saying is that when you behave like a good christian by doing good deeds, going to church etc, you're not necessarily actually being genuinely altruistic but simply acting out of self-interest (i.e. you want to increase your chances of going to heaven).

no, actually thats not what i was saying at all.  if by self interest you mean doing what God wants me to (being obedient, loyal) then i guess yes.  i try to behave as Jesus would...but i will never live up to that standard because he was perfect, but i strive to be like him, so my "self interest" is being obedient. 

Conversely, if atheists are good people all of their life, presumably they are still denied the opportunity to go to heaven simply because they didn't believe in god.

yeah pretty much.  thats the whole point of being obedient, but more importantly the gift of free will.  God gives us the choice to believe or not believe, but with consequences if you dont.  its like, accept the truth or dont accept it...and live with your decision.  go to work, or dont go to work...your choice, but dont expect your check in the mail either if you choose to not obey or go to work.  thats not "mean" or "unfair", thats just the facts.  if you are too stubborn to believe or dont even care then you live with your choice.  but i believe what i believe because it is the truth, and because of that truth, i have no doubt what will happen to me when i die....never have.  if im an atheist, it really doesnt matter anyway, so why question my beliefs unless you have doubt yourself?

And what happens to the people who had the misfortune to be born into a non-christian culture and end up believing, through no fault of their own, in the wrong type of god or gods e.g. Muslims, Jews etc? Are those people also denied access to heaven?

if people say in foreign countries are born into a Muslim home, and never hear the Gospel, then we as Christians fail.  we are commanded "to go and make disciples among nations", so if we arent aiding that, then we fail as Christians.  some are called to make disciples here in the states, and others are called to go overseas (missionaries).  so if they never hear the gospel, then its our fault, but the ultimate judgement is up to God.  i believe in certain circumstances, he will give them oppurtunities to convert. 

If 'god' wants people to believe in him so much that he's prepared to bribe people with the promise of a place in heaven, then why doesn't he provide concrete evidence for his existence?

because our religion is based on faith, and without faith you have nothing.  not everything can be measured in a test tube or given "concrete evidence" in our standards.  concrete evidence to me is delivered every day, but many fail to see it or refuse to see it.  again, God gives you the choice whether to believe or not.  free will is a wonderful thing, but its easy to screw up by being stubborn. 

i have a 'whole friggin book' of the king james bible. i have a whole book of mormon, a whole book of the new world translation, a whole book of the quran and a whole book of falun gong. that last is a doozy, such a laugh. the guy actually believes david copperfield to be a falun gong 'wizard'! anyway, just because it's written in one book doesn't make it so. i also have 'the hobbit' kicking around somewhere...

so what do you call history books then?  when you go through school and are sitting there listening to a teacher tell you about the the supposed evolution of man...you believe it...why?  where is the proof?  is there 100% concrete evidence that we evolved?  yes i know about carbon dating (which i believe was caused by the great flood therefore eroding things and making them appear older) and yes i know about supposed bones that were discovered, but there is still a Missing Link that has yet to be proven...its just assumed.  but who was there to write about it?  granted the book of morman was written by someone, but only one man.  one eye witness to what he thought happened, and then he couldnt tell anybody or show anybody what happened, he just had to write about it.  whereas the Bible was written by many, and from many different areas, locations, and walks of life.  the Bible is what i believe to be the truth, and if you dont accept that, once again thats free will and your choice.  i know i am right, and there are great things in store for me when i die.  for non-believers, y ou have a choice to follow the right path, or go about your every day life and refuse to believe what i do and the consequences are already laid out in front you whether you accept them or not.

[DrewKaree]

if people say in foreign countries are born into a Muslim home, and never hear the Gospel, then we as Christians fail.  we are commanded "to go and make disciples among nations", so if we arent aiding that, then we fail as Christians.  some are called to make disciples here in the states, and others are called to go overseas (missionaries).  so if they never hear the gospel, then its our fault, but the ultimate judgement is up to God.  i believe in certain circumstances, he will give them oppurtunities to convert.

Hulkster,
We aren't called to go convert those who do not believe, we are called to "give a reason for the hope in your soul" (what you or I would consider proclaiming the Gospel).  Those we cannot reach will still be held accountable because "the very rocks will cry out".  The reason I make the distinction is that others will view your statement as proselytizing to others, and see it in black/white.  If you don't convert those you seek to save, in essence God is being mean and damning them to hell.  It's not for us to convert those who do not believe as we do, it's for us to give that reason, and for God to do the rest of the work. 

The choice we make is what we will be held accountable. 

If you do not believe in God, it doesn't really matter what "accountable" means.  To someone who believes you use religion as a crutch to get through life, it doesn't really matter what "accountable" means.  To someone who believes in their religion, its tenets, and its figurehead, "accountable" will mean whatever their religion holds to.  The faith you hold to points out that "the darkness despises the light".  It cannot understand.  It doesn't absolve you of the requirement to give the reason for the hope in your soul, but it's like arguing about what color the sky is today.  You can only state your reasons, others will believe differently, if they feel moved that what you state may need investigating, or they agree with your reasons, they will be changed.  If they do not believe as you do, they will not agree or change their reasons.  You have done what was commanded of you. 

Perhaps you were the sower of the seed, perhaps more is needed.  God will send someone to water, someone to provide sun, someone to provide fertilizer, etc. 

[Grasshopper]

so what do you call history books then?  when you go through school and are sitting there listening to a teacher tell you about the the supposed evolution of man...you believe it...why?  where is the proof?  is there 100% concrete evidence that we evolved?  yes i know about carbon dating (which i believe was caused by the great flood therefore eroding things and making them appear older) and yes i know about supposed bones that were discovered, but there is still a Missing Link that has yet to be proven...its just assumed.

Not quite sure what you mean by carbon dating being caused by the great flood. Can you provide links to scientific papers to back this theory up?

But that point aside, whilst it is impossible to absolutely 'prove' the theory of evolution (can you absolutely prove anything outside of mathematics?) there is a vast, and ever increasing, amount of evidence to back the theory up. But there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that the world was created in seven days.

It's also worth bearing in mind that religious leaders used to believe that the sun revolved round the earth, and that the earth was flat. I don't think anyone would say those things anymore, unless you believe the moon landings were faked, Newton's laws are wrong, Einstein was wrong etc.

Ultimately, you have to go where the bulk of the evidence takes you, and at the moment the theory of evolution provides the most plausible explanation of how we got here (IMHO). If someone comes up with another theory and provides evidence to back it up, then I'm certainly prepared to listen, and perhaps alter my views accordingly.

[hulkster]

fair enough Drew.

[hulkster]

so what do you call history books then?

[DrewKaree]

so many people question what we believe for what reason?  i think a lot of the time, people question because they have no real conviction themselves.  i know the truth, so i dont need to seek holes in others.  i got in this thread because i felt like my faith was attacked, so im just standing up for it.  im not trying to preach, just standing up for what is right (or in this case...correct )

I dunno the reason, I can only hazard guesses, which are really generalizations that don't fit each person.  One person may hate what you believe in because of something that happened to them in church or by someone they view as "churchy".  Another may seriously wish to know why you believe what you do, and simply can't phrase it in a way that looks like a serious question to you, or perhaps you took them wrongly....regardless of why, you're called to give a reason for the hope in your soul, not club them over the head with your faith so that they understand it through osmosis   

Consider that to follow Him will mean persecution for your faith, whatever form that will take.  Not to stand up for that which you believe in is to possess a faith which is lukewarm, helping no one.


Why do I have this hope in my soul I speak of?  I stumbled through life trying to make something of it, failing at every turn, constantly looking for something that would make me "happy".  Each thing I tried never brought the sense of fulfillment that kept that happiness there, until I gave my life over to God.  While it isn't an easy life still, I have a sense of why I am alive, of what my life is to be used for, and what will become of me upon my death.  Death no longer holds this big fear over me.  I have a sense of sadness because I will miss those I care for, but there is a greater feeling of joy, because I know that death for my body will not mean death for my soul.  Life everlasting is mine through faith.  I have that assurance, which keeps me on the road I'm going.