*edited* Democracy, what is it good for?

[DrewKaree]

This article is from http://www.czabe.com/dailyczabe.shtml.  The faint of heart should not visit his site.  Humor, foul language, opinion, humor, sarcasm, sports, and humor (did I say humor?) abound there.  Herein lies his take on something I hadn't stopped to think of, what with all the rancor in American politics.  For your reading pleasure:


We should *quote edited* take our resilient, beautiful, orderly and civilized election process for granted. *again* after it was concluded that Ukrainian opposition candidate Viktor Yushchenko had been poisoned to within an inch of his life at a state dinner (probably by pro-Putin remnants of the old KGB).

     REUTERS - Doctors at the Rudolfinerhaus clinic said on Saturday that Yushchenko had been the victim of dioxin poisoning but were unable to say whether it was the result of a deliberate act. Dr Michael Zimpfer, president of the Rudolfinerhaus clinic, said if the poisoning had been deliberate, dioxin may have been chosen because of the difficulty of detecting it. "Until recently there was no blood test for dioxin. This may be one of the reasons why this kind of poison, if it was a criminal act, was chosen," he said. "We detected blood levels (of dioxin) at least 1,000-fold above tolerable levels."

     REACT: And in this country, people get upset because of so-called

[mr.Curmudgeon]

"We should never, ever, EVER take our resilient, beautiful, orderly and civilized election process for granted."

You already have....

BREAKING: Witness Says Voting Company Tampered With Machines

Bush and his cronies stole another election right under our noses...but that doesn't bother you since your guy won.
 

[fredster]

Mr C

You are kidding right?  That's from the dailykos, or known to the real world as "moonbat city".

Please, if you want unbiased facts go to the drudgereport.

[Mameotron]

Thanks, MrC, that post of yours had me laughing for some time!

[DrewKaree]

"We should never, ever, EVER take our resilient, beautiful, orderly and civilized election process for granted."

You already have....

BREAKING: Witness Says Voting Company Tampered With Machines

Bush and his cronies stole another election right under our noses...but that doesn't bother you since your guy won.
 

I'll try to break it down for you since you view this as something that is a right/left thing - which if you read the Reuters snippet, it WAS NOT  (I spelled out wasn't instead of using the contraction in case you chose to misread the words I post again  )

Here's the point, MrC:

     As bad as our politicking is, WE HAVEN'T TRIED TO KILL THE OPPOSING PARTY'S CANDIDATE


Is there something in your makeup that causes you to see everything I type regarding politics of ANY sort in a left/right vein?  This had nothing to do with that, and E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G to do with the fact that we are at least a civilized enough society to not try to win elections by killing (LITERALLY) the opposition.

I'm sorry you hate Bush being the President of the U.S.A. for 8 years.  Welcome to my world, circa The Clinton Years.  I got over it soon after the election.  Take a cue from one of your side's 587's and www.MOVEON.man.

[DarkKobold]

I'd actually agree with the Dirty Dirty Republican Drew. He has a dirty dirty point, inspite of his dirtiness.

Killing the opposing candidates would be quicker. Personally I'd like to see Dick 'Hard Balls Heartattack' Cheney vs. John 'I look better in drag' Edwards cage match, two men enter, one man leaves... and leaves as vice president, none the less.

Oh yeah, there was election fraud. Guarnteed. But, it could be worse. America isn't going to be destroyed under bush. With no new terrorist acts, no new 'patriot' acts can be made. The MTV generation won't be afraid in like, 2 years. Thank god for ADD eh?

P.S. Drew, take a bath, in liberalism!

[locash]

...we are at least a civilized enough society to not try to win elections by killing (LITERALLY) the opposition.

While this might be an indication of a civil election process this is no more a measure of our society's civility than our ability to sip tea with our pinky fingers in the air.

"Civilization is the encouragement of differences. Civilization thus becomes a synonym of democracy. Force, violence, pressure, or compulsion with a view to conformity, is both uncivilized and undemocratic."
  --  Mahatma Gandhi

[mr.Curmudgeon]

As bad as our politicking is, WE HAVEN'T TRIED TO KILL THE OPPOSING PARTY'S CANDIDATE

Yet.

[Dartful Dodger]

As bad as our politicking is, WE HAVEN'T TRIED TO KILL THE OPPOSING PARTY'S CANDIDATE

Yet.

I was surprised Bill lasted 8 years.

But I'm not to worried about Hitlery getting elected in 08, "they" won

[GGKoul]

 

[saint]

Well....

Martin Luther King JR. (not a politician per se, but same vein...)
JFK
Bobby Kennedy
Abraham Lincoln

I didn't count the attempt on Reagan because that was a kook trying to impress Jody Foster, but you can add that one to the list if you'd like.

Pointing out that these were after they were elected instead of during an election is splitting hairs IMHO.

--- saint

     As bad as our politicking is, WE HAVEN'T TRIED TO KILL THE OPPOSING PARTY'S CANDIDATE

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Mr C

You are kidding right?  That's from the dailykos, or known to the real world as "moonbat city".

Typical response. Sad really....willfull ignorance is no excuse.  There's already been testimony regarding these issues in front of the House Judiciary Committee.  It's wait and see for now.

I linked to Kos as it provides a nice outline of the issues at hand. But here, check this out, from the NYT:

"The ranking Democratic member of the House Judiciary Committee, Representative John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, plans to ask the Federal Bureau of Investigation and a county prosecutor in Ohio today to explore "inappropriate and likely illegal election tampering" in at least one and perhaps several Ohio counties."

From Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich):
"I have learned that Sherole Eaton, a Deputy Director of Board of Elections in Hocking County, Ohio, has first hand knowledge of inappropriate and likely illegal election tampering in the Ohio presidential election in violation of federal and state law."

...DEVELOPING.... (As they say)

I'm sure now you'll scream, "Damn Liberal Media!!"...so give me a break. Either you just don't care, or you're uninformed. But, whether you like it or not, there are genuine reports of voting irregularities in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida, and of voter suppression all over the place. Yes this happens with every election, but this is the FIRST election to allow PAPERLESS NON-AUDITABLE ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES DEVELOPED BY CORPORATIONS WHOLELY OWNED BY EXTREMELY PARTISAN REPUBLICANS.  (ie: Diebold, TriAd)

Let's say you receive direct deposit were you work and you never see a paycheck, nor do you have an online account where you can track your earnings. Would you trust the bank (Diebold makes ATM's that spit out paper trails) to hold your money without ever issuing you a bank statement?  That's what this country did...that's why Bush "won" Ohio and the presidency.

Why recount Ohio?

I really don't expect Bush supporters to care about any of this though. From my view, they've already shown how little they care about our country simply by "re-electing" a war criminal (NO WMD) who is more interested in the "gay terrah" then in killing real terrorists.

I'm sure you'll scream, "Sore loser" were these allegations to be further substantiated. Fine. Won't make them any less true. I just found it ironic that Drew would dare post about our "precious democracy" without looking into the alleged illegal activities committed right in his own back-yard.

Bush isn't our president AFAIK...he just plays one on T.V.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Well....

Martin Luther King JR. (not a politician per se, but same vein...)
JFK
Bobby Kennedy
Abraham Lincoln

Incredibly logical point....

Drew,
Kinda' shoots your theory all to hell doesn't it?

[Dartful Dodger]

I really don't expect Bush supporters to care about any of this though.

I really don't expect you or any other liberals to get off your @sses and do anything about it.

BUSH WON!!!

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Thanks for addressing the issues...please come again.

Questions you seemed to have missed:

1) If it's mathematically impossible for Kerry to win a recount in Ohio why is Blackwell (Ohio Secretary of State and head of Bush-Cheney reelection campaign) doing his best to slow it down or prevent it? Apparently the law provides for a recount and does not allow the Secretary Of State to claim "it costs too much" or "I don't think it would change anything" to avoid a recount.

2) Why shouldn't there be paper trails in elections?

[DrewKaree]

Well....

Martin Luther King JR. (not a politician per se, but same vein...)
JFK
Bobby Kennedy
Abraham Lincoln

I didn't count the attempt on Reagan because that was a kook trying to impress Jody Foster, but you can add that one to the list if you'd like.

Pointing out that these were after they were elected instead of during an election is splitting hairs IMHO.

--- saint

I'm gonna choose to look at the "rosy" side of life on those.

I'm gonna choose to believe those nutjobs who did the assassinating thought enough of the American political process that the "right" person would be elected, and when America made the "wrong" choice, they simply took matters into their own hands.

Color me optimistic, but that's how I see it.

MrC, please, put down the deer rifle and come down out of the clock tower.

Again I'll point out to you that the story was about killing someone to affect an election.  Nice to see you beat your chest about how partisan politics divide us, yet you're the first to inject further partisan politics instead of having the courage to start your own thread.  Your hypocrisy is simply appalling. 

I don't think ANYBODY here dislikes anybody for their political views, but you seem hell-bent on making yourself the lone exception.  For you, in the spirit of Christmas, I give you a

[Dartful Dodger]

blah blah blah .. recount... blah blah blah

Answer you seemed to have missed:

Your champion conceded. 

This is a dead subject, no matter how many 'new' conspiracy theories you can dig up, it's over.

Bush won!

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to say that twice in the same thread.

[locash]

Unless I am mistaken, Robert Kennedy's assassination occured during the primaries.  Which makes it before the election.

PAPERLESS NON-AUDITABLE ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES

Regardless of who won the election or who is developing these machines, doesn't this sound like a bad idea?  I'd be much happier if these devices spit out some kind of confirmation.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Your champion conceded.

Which was the right thing to do given the facts at the time, the Rethugs would be screaming bloody murder if he didn't.  It's not legally binding...btw. This isn't over by a long-shot. We've got four years to prove fraud, bringing 'Dear Leader' and his vile legacy to it's knees. Do I care whether you think it's important? No. Bush's illegitimate presidency will haunt him for the rest of his life. As it should. Much worse than a BJ'er.

This is a dead subject, no matter how many 'new' conspiracy theories you can dig up, it's over.

Bush won!

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to say that twice in the same thread.

Again,  say it is much as you want, doesn't make the issue any less pertinent to those would desire a clean and fair election.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I don't think ANYBODY here dislikes anybody for their political views, but you seem hell-bent on making yourself the lone exception.  For you, in the spirit of Christmas, I give you a

You phrase your posts in order to draw people into these type of things, I'm just helping you out.

I don't dislike (personally) anyone here either, just some of their political views. How could I? I don't know them....However, when it comes to Bush, a man I see thoroughly destroying our "precious democracy", I'll admit, it is sometimes hard to find the love for anyone who'd support him.

Why?

The guy is a moron. Seriously. At least say you support him 'cuz he represents your team, and you want your team to win. Don't act like he's any more than a bumbling imbecile who drank through the first half of his life and stumbled into the second. He can't string a sentence together, not because he's an "everyman", but because he is illiterate. He says so himself... The level of "Bush Hatred" you see isn't because people want to hate the guy, but because he makes it so easy. He is a thug, a criminal, nothing more. He fooled less than 3 million people than he should have been able to. They wanted to be fooled...like Dartful Doger, they don't want to ask questions. They fear the unknown and just want to the world to fit into the little narrative that Bush has created for them. They're are in for a rude awakening, once the true damage to our precious democracy becomes apparent.

Our precious democracy now has more limits on freedom of speech because of Bush and his cronies.
Our precious democracy now has a cow-towing press corp, who can't ask legitmate questions of those in charge, because of Bush and his cronies
Our precious democracy has moved farther away from clean and fair elections, because of Bush and his cronies.
Our precious democracy has never been deeper in debt, because of Bush and his cronies.
Our precious democracy has never been more divided, post-Civil War, because of Bush and his cronies.
Our precious democracy, once a beacon to the world, is now globally scorned, further endangering our ability to function as a super-power.

Personally, I feel as if Bush is unwittingly bringing about the end of our nations function as a super power. I think, as the dollar continues to slip, as our country falls deeper in debt, and as our military becomes further bogged down in the pointless personal grudge war Iraq, another country will seize the opportunity and take the lead on the world stage. China maybe...

I will continue to do all that I can to get him out of office, hopefully along with 56+ million others. For our precious democracy!!

in the spirit of Christmas, I give you a Kiss

...and a Happy Holidays to you!

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I'm gonna choose to believe...

Don't let the facts get in the way! You're doing a good job so far.   

[Dartful Dodger]

They wanted to be fooled...like Dartful Doger, they don't want to ask questions.

I don't want to marry another guy.
I don't want to collect unemployment.
I don't want to be taken off death row.
I don't want to collect social security checks.
I don't want to be told what to do.
I don't want to live in fear.

I want my gun.

I've seen what has happen in other countries, we are so close to losing our rights and less than half of us are choosing not to see it.  Luckily more than half of us know the truth.

I got what a wanted from Santa early this year, because Bush won!

[Mameotron]

Typical response. Sad really....willfull ignorance is no excuse.

Apparently your willful ignorance is ok?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,25749.msg216160.html#msg216160

Yes, the vast right wing conspiracy grows.

[shmokes]

Holy Jesus Mary what a bunch of wackos.

Drew, they're right.  Your nutty optimism doesn't change American history.  Don't go the road of mindless patriotism/nationalism, Drew.  Leave that to Fredster.  American democracy has a helluva long way to go. 

Mr. C, they're right.  You are certifiable.  And a sore loser.  And if Kerry had won by 10 votes you would defend the legitimacy of his win to the death in the face of all the republican ranting about voter fraud.  Come to terms.  He's there for the duration....the damage will be done and god willing (read: Hillary doesn't win the primary) we can start repairing the damage in '08.

Dartful, if the government takes away a right you weren't using they've still taken away a right.  Are you afraid that you're going to accidentally marry another guy if the government doesn't stop you?  You're as crazy as Mr. C.   ... Almost.

[DrewKaree]

Holy Jesus Mary what a bunch of wackos.

I like the way you say it with love   

...Are you afraid that you're going to accidentally marry another guy if the government doesn't stop you?

Man, I was walking down the street the other day and slipped on some ice in the driveway, next thing I know, I'm married to my buddy. 

Yeah, yeah, I know it was an accident, but what are ya gonna do? 

(that's what came to mind when I read "accidentally marry another guy"  )

Yeah, darn that history and all.  I'll fix the comments and the title.

Hey, did anyone happen to actually visit the link I gave?  Just wondering, is all.  I dunno if anyone here is actually within earshot of Czabe, but I'd like to hear if you listen to his national show and if he's funny there, or more sober.

[DrewKaree]

Apparently your willful ignorance is ok?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,25749.msg216160.html#msg216160

Yes, the vast right wing conspiracy grows.

HEY!  I started that thread to point out vote fraud on BOTH sides, not just the right wing conspiracy!   

And besides, MrC missed that one, didn't he?  He was out on the trail, firing up almost enough of the electorate in order to get them to realize they needed to stuff the vote or something inspirational like that.   

[Mameotron]

My mistake, Drew, that is when MrC left us.

However, I'll stick to my guns because nobody has told me how they know this guy was giving BUSH votes and not giving KERRY votes.  He could have been a double agent that successfully infiltrated the republican party...

[shmokes]

Speaking of infiltrating another party, did you know that Karl Rove, when he was nineteen, posed as a campaign volunteer for Democratic Illinois Treasury candidate Alan Dixon and then stole 1000 sheets of Dixon's campaign letterhead?  He then printed on the letterhead, "Free beer, free food, girls and a good time for nothing," with the date and address coinciding with Dixon's campaign kickoff event and distributed them to homeless shelters and rock concerts and so on.

And you say the guy's not brilliant, Drew. 

[DrewKaree]

I never knew that, shmokes.  Kinda DOES shed a whole new light on the guy......but I still think he's something of an idiot. 

Does that make me a liberal now?   

Next I'll be out stumping for a Save The Whales campaign!  I almost have the whole set myself, but I don't think that means others should save 'em too!

[Sasquatch!]

I didn't count the attempt on Reagan because that was a kook trying to impress Jody Foster, but you can add that one to the list if you'd like.

Pointing out that these were after they were elected instead of during an election is splitting hairs IMHO.

In all fairness, Jody Foster is pretty hot though.  I'm just sayin'.

[fredster]

Mr C,

You are killing me man.

Here in TN we are looking at the provisional ballots that were cast. Turns out 66% were not registered and thrown out. Of those, we are finding LOTS of dems voting.

There's a movement to prosecute the people who put in the provisional ballots. After all, if we just blindly accepted them, we'd have the same kind of election as the Ukraine, with bus loads of voters going from city to city voting over and over.

Kinda like your vision on the way we should have had this last election as I recall.

Sorry. It clearly says in the article you sighted that these issues wouldn't change the outcome of the election.

Now, that conspiricy theory is at rest now, have you any more info on the Aliens that killed Kennedy?

[DarkKobold]

I don't think ANYBODY here dislikes anybody for their political views,

[DrewKaree]

nah, that's just you.  Floyd loved me.  He secretly had a crush on me and once told me so in private.  I just promised not to tell on him, but now that he's left the board  he can't defend himself anymore.

Hey Kobold,

 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Can't we all just get along?

[Dartful Dodger]

Dartful, if the government takes away a right you weren't using they've still taken away a right.

[shmokes]

Bush won so I get to keep my gun.

That's clever!  Someone give Dartful a gold star.

[locash]

I voted for the guy that let me keep the rights I care about.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

-- Goethe

[Stingray]

Bush won so I get to keep my gun.

Dude, you're really starting to freak me out with all this "I get to keep my gun" stuff.

-S

[Mameotron]

Well, I don't know about Dodger, but MY screensaver is that clip from The Matrix where Neo says, "Guns... lots of guns!!!" and the endless racks of guns surround him.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Not to turn this into another gun debate thread - 'cuz where has that ever gotten anyone? - but the thing I'll never understand, regardless of the "If they outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" nonsense, is how gun advocates can argue the "I want them for my protection" angle.

You want them so you feel you can protect you and your family because you generally don't trust people, or you trust that there's a certain element of danger prevalent in our society, fine, I'm with you. However, if you don't trust people, why would you fight for them to have access to more weapons?

The general "pro-gun" mindset seems so short-sighted. Those of you who like them because you are an enthusiast and you just "like to shoot them"...well, you're just crazy and your arguments don't count. Seriously. Jeffrey Dahmer liked to eat people, I'm sure he thought we taste just like chicken. I'm sure his argument would be "Who doesn't love chicken, right?"