Legalities of making money from MAME??

[SirPeale]

They may not know what pacman looks like but a blue screen of death would certainly arouse some suspicion, as even the biggest computer pleb on this planet has seen one AND knows what it means.

That's right!  Use DOS.

[stellarola]

Haha, I will rememeber that Peale! . My electrical work is fine, btw. 

[fredster]

It really depends on where you put it and who is looking it over.  If it is in a dynamo cab and it looks kinda like a neo geo, you can get away with it. 

You can have tax stickers all over it, you can get those for anything. They don't open the hood and see what's under it. Tax stickers don't make anything authentic.

If I did it, I'd just have one game running on it at a time. Just switch it out from time to time.

Legally, copyright legally, no, you can't legally run that machine.  You might be able to get away with it legally if you ran say MsPac with a dead MsPac board in the back, that's your licence.

It might raise eyebrows if it reboots on you. I'd just let it run and don't shut off. If you can rig Dos, do it. Just change out the mame command line and don't use a front end.

I have 4 real arcade games in a store that have been running continuously almost a year.  They may have shutdown in a powerfailure, but otherwise they don't even have shutoff switches on them anymore.  They look the same as the day I put them there.

As far as Namco, etc going after mame, there is a larger group of people moving in that direction. All of the AAMA and other groups are thinking about it.

There have been bootlegs in operation since the first video games. Look at all of the bootleg Ms Pac's and knock off boards that were made in the golden age.  They didn't come in and raid arcades as far as I know to find these things.

I have already seen Mame Machines at the arcade auction. I remember talking to an op about the machine and when I told him what it was he became upset.  He looked at me and said "then why would people need these machines?"  Well, he's right, the collector's market will shrink.

Mame and Multigame machines will take up the casual collector.  These mame machines are already on the street because they are being manufactured and sold at low levels in these auctions and on ebay.

It's really just a matter of time.

[danny_galaga]

Haha, I will rememeber that Peale! . My electrical work is fine, btw.

[fredster]

Actually, the biggest problem with video game machines is injuries from the control Panels.

Golden tee's are bad if the metal wears or the bolts get loose around the trackball and raise up. If that happens, then when somebody goes for that 310 yard drive they rip their skin on the loose metal.

Besides, there would be lots less voltage in a Mame Machine than in any other.  I personally don't know anybody that has been electrocuted by a computer. 

As long as you have a properly grounded Isolation transformer in the bottom with a good ground to the frame of the monitor, you are good to go. You have to keep a fuse inline there. 

If you use a computer monitor instead of a regular Arcade monitor, you are even more protected, they have internal circuits that will keep it from conducting.  If you use a wood control panel it would be highly unlikely that any thing more than 5v DC would wack somebody.

I have grabbed a frame on a Arcade monitor by accident.  The charge was there, but it didn't do anything but tee me off.  I had a good isolation transformer in place and a good ground.

The control panel is the dangerous thing, they have to be very very smooth and strong.

[paigeoliver]

You don't have to bring in your machines to get the tax stickers. I have taken old tax stickers off more than one bootleg game, and I even saw a Mame cabinet at auction once with a 2002 tax sticker on it.

As far as blue screens of death go, I have seen those on REAL games as well. Some games run on windows.

[fredster]

Paige,

Do you think that machine was just converted to mame and the builder just didn't remove the sticker or do you think it was being used in operation like that?

If the sticker was 2002, then he probably got it in 2001.  That means people have been doing this for quite some time.

As far as anybody catching someone doing this, there is no group of men in black looking for copyright infringements at corner gas stations.  Go to a flea market and look at all the knockoff crap there is there. It's big business. The person that holds the copyright is really the only one that can enforce the law there. 

This stuff is in the net now, all over it. It's in houses all over the world.  If somebody wanted to do this, they can and will do it all they want.

[paigeoliver]

I am not sure if it was operated like that, but I have spoken to operators who have ran mame cabinets. All of them end up pulling them off location and selling them, people keep putting quarters in at the wrong time and then wanting their money back.

But like I said before, they don't come round and inspect your machines for the tax stamp, instead YOU go get the tax stamps. Your machine is not inspected.

Really, if you really want to operate anything then get a JAMMA cabinet, and a Ms. Pac-Man cabinet. Put them side by side, keep the JAMMA cabinet loaded up with fairly late model import JAP pcbs (puzzle stuff mostly), and forget about Mame altogether.

[stellarola]

What kind of jap puzzles games would you think would work?

[paigeoliver]

Uo Poko
Magical Tetris featuring Mickey Mouse
Mr. Driller series

[fredster]

Paige,

Yeah, you are right. They drop a quarter in and then select the game and are teed when they don't get the quarter.

The only way to stop that is to make the game play only one game at a time. That's the solution, because who reads instructions? Just configure it to run one game at a time.  Each week, change the game.  Have two or three of them in a row.

And you are right about the tax numbers. You just get them at the courthouse or where ever the licencing tells you.  They did that for a year here in TN and abandoned the tax number deal. We fought back and told them we didn't want income tax and other taxes.  We got them to abolish stuff like that.

All we pay is a sales tax.

Stellarola, try the bubble bobble sets.  I only have 4 machines running at a gas station, and I find that all of them have about the same money.

I have a T2, MsPac,Fisherman's bait, and a Twin Cobra (with a green screen).

They have been running constantly since July. I found that somebody got 175,000 on Ms Pac and the thing that freaked me the most was that somebody got 385,000 on twin cobra.

I should give that machine to the man who did that. After all, he probably paid for it in Quarters!

[danny_galaga]

Actually, the biggest problem with video game machines is injuries from the control Panels.

Golden tee's are bad if the metal wears or the bolts get loose around the trackball and raise up. If that happens, then when somebody goes for that 310 yard drive they rip their skin on the loose metal.

Besides, there would be lots less voltage in a Mame Machine than in any other.

[danny_galaga]

although i guess so long as it doesn't involve HOT COFFEE the chances of litigation are slim 

[fredster]

but you put an illegally wired machine out in the public then that is WAY more of a risk than whether mame is legal or not.

Danny, just because you can't wire it up right doesn't mean Stellarola can't. 

I've been working on machines for a long time.  When they get to me 1/2 of them aren't grounded correctly.

Your man in the machine shop isn't a good example. A bench grinder has water on the front and it also has several amps running through it.  Plus, he was probably pretty sloppy to cause that type of accident.  Don't be so sure he thought it was safe. I work in an industrial environment and as long as it's working, it's OK with them.

A wood cabinet is more of a fire hazard than anything.  I don't remember a computer related fire.  If the monitor is a concealed PC monitor, then it's as safe as a PC + Coffee.  If it has an Arcade Monitor in it, as long as it has the isolation transformer and the fuse in place, it's good.

Do you think your cocktail is deadly?

[danny_galaga]

but you put an illegally wired machine out in the public then that is WAY more of a risk than whether mame is legal or not.

Danny, just because you can't wire it up right doesn't mean Stellarola can't.

[fredster]

legally do it. catch my drift?

I understand.

You can in the US. But like anywhere else, it's all fun and games until somebody's eye get's put out.

 

[danny_galaga]

legally do it. catch my drift?

I understand.

You can in the US. But like anywhere else, it's all fun and games until somebody's eye get's put out.

 

wow! so if one day someone in the US decides they want to be an electrician, they just get a truck and some signwriting and they are an electrician? no training, no apprenticeship? an ad in the yellow pages makes it so?

i'm emmigrating to the US! i've got 3/4 of a pilots licence. only did one nav exercise but that should be more than sufficient to fly lear jets. i RECKON i could fly 'em. who needs any of those pesky 'endorsements' anyway 

get that scotch and ginger ready for me. you promised me a drink should we meet! i'll be landing in a football field near you!

[ErikRuud]

Yes, there are people that go into business as electricians (plumber, carpenters, etc) without training or apprenticeship.  They even find people on occasion that are not properly licensed docotrs or lawyers!

However, you are taking your chances with those people, most insurance will not cover damages caused by contractors do not have a current license and insurance.

It depends on local government as to wheter or not these people are operating illegally.

I know that in my town, all repairs must be done by insured, licensed contractors or the homeowner.  Technically, I cannot have my wife's uncle do eletrical work in my house even though he was a licensed, bonded, insured, union electrician for 40 years.  He is retired now, and is not licensed or insured.  I trust him more than most of the electrical contractors that I know in my area.

[paigeoliver]

wiring up arcade cabinets does not require an electrician, in fact most electricians wouldn't even know how to do it (I just sold a game to one of them).

Most arcade game conversions were done by half stoned 19 year olds, and the only way ANY of them were done by licensed electricians were if the operator happened to be an ex-electrician.

[fredster]

wow! so if one day someone in the US decides they want to be an electrician, they just get a truck and some signwriting and they are an electrician? no training, no apprenticeship? an ad in the yellow pages makes it so?

Yep.  This is a free Capitalistic Nation Danny.  If you have the will and you have the know how, you can be anything you want. It's great to be an American. 

As a matter of fact, I have a side business in helping people become Americans, I actually specialize in helping people from Austrailia immigrate to the US.

 

[SirPeale]

Anyone can work with electrical stuff, but you need a licensed electrician to make sure it's legal.  At least in terms of home wiring.

I could rewire my home, but if I ever sell it, I better have the paperwork to back up that it was at MINIMUM inspected by a licensed electrician.

[DrewKaree]

You can in the US. But like anywhere else, it's all fun and games until somebody's eye get's put out.

then it's just funny.


and before I get all these posts about "dood, my brudder lost his eye an it ain't funny" - RELAX.  them's just jokes, is all.

[Harry Potter]

dood, my brudder neerly poked mah eye out (twice) an it was quite funny at the time.

[danny_galaga]

wow! so if one day someone in the US decides they want to be an electrician, they just get a truck and some signwriting and they are an electrician? no training, no apprenticeship? an ad in the yellow pages makes it so?

Yep.

[danny_galaga]

no wait, an astronaut!! yeah that's what i want. so i just tell 'em 'yeah, i been doin this foer years' and job done! of course, what with all that 'merican no-how you don't got no actual rokkit ships to fly in 

[fredster]

Anyone can work with electrical stuff, but you need a licensed electrician to make sure it's legal.

[paigeoliver]

wow! so if one day someone in the US decides they want to be an electrician, they just get a truck and some signwriting and they are an electrician? no training, no apprenticeship? an ad in the yellow pages makes it so?

Yep.  This is a free Capitalistic Nation Danny.  If you have the will and you have the know how, you can be anything you want. It's great to be an American. 

As a matter of fact, I have a side business in helping people become Americans, I actually specialize in helping people from Austrailia immigrate to the US.

 

and now i understand why you guys dont have the lowest infant mortality rate in the world! screw being an electrician, i wanna be a doctor! heaps more money in that. wheres the website for the american yellow pages...

in which case, fredster make mine a martini. stirred...

No, you DON'T want to be a doctor in America. The american medical system is in a crisis because of our overabundance of ambulance chasing "have you been injured" lawyers who make careers out of suing medical people for ANYTHING that goes wrong at the hospital. Some doctors are now making like $30K per year after paying malpractice insurance.

Of course I have never been able to afford medical care anyway (I am sort of perversely proud of it, 17 years since my last doctor visit), but the prices I can't afford are skyrocketing.

[danny_galaga]

Anyone can work with electrical stuff, but you need a licensed electrician to make sure it's legal.

[danny_galaga]

No, you DON'T want to be a doctor in America. The american medical system is in a crisis because of our overabundance of ambulance chasing "have you been injured" lawyers who make careers out of suing medical people for ANYTHING that goes wrong at the hospital. Some doctors are now making like $30K per year after paying malpractice insurance.

Of course I have never been able to afford medical care anyway (I am sort of perversely proud of it, 17 years since my last doctor visit), but the prices I can't afford are skyrocketing.

you're absolutely right! i wanna be an ambulance chasing lawyer! do i have to buy coco-pops or cornflakes to get degree?

[Mameotron]

Danny,

Just to clear things up.....

The legalities of electrical wiring vary greatly from state to state, and sometimes from town to town.

I can tell you that in my state, I can do any wiring inside my house with no special skills or credentials.

[danny_galaga]

very good. that's quite acceptable. i've done work in my own house too. the only thing i got an electrician in for was to move the mains cable which was in a wall we knocked down. again seems like anything goes in the US, but in australia if you want to sell your house and you've changed it structurally you should have the house plans adjusted. you don't HAVE to but if a buyer asks, you could lose the sale

but that's in your HOUSE. i'm talking about a vending machine that you have in a public place. i'm not rubbishing the idea at all, a friend and i had thoughts on those lines. only he wanted to use mame and i wanted to use an original pcb. i hadn't thought about the risk of litigations until stellarola mentioned being good at wiring. that made me realise that saying you're good at something (in australia at least) won't really hold water if you stuff up and someone got hurt. doesn't matter if it's electrocution or the thing catches on fire, questions will be asked...

[DrewKaree]

Depending on your state, you will require a license for lots of things.  Each state will be different, based upon their laws.  If there is a federal law requiring a license, that will override the state law.  Thankfully, they don't require a license for becoming an --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--, because right now, I just can't afford it, what with the holidays and all. 

We can pretend we have the licenses required, or do the work without the license.  We just have to be prepared to pay the consequences if we are found to be a fraud.  Being that we are such a litigious society, it will usually cost us the money we attempted to make by circumventing those requirements, but other costs can include our lives. 

Those of us confident in our abilities accept the personal risks.  It's funny, but that devil-may-care attitude is what I like about my country.  It's the "devil inside that a_hole" who views something bad happening to them as them buying a winning lottery ticket when said "something" is attached to big business.

Did that clear it up for you danny?  Me neither.  Good   

 

[danny_galaga]

hey, i like your avatar! do you like mine? i thought was very topical 

hey notice how this emoticon is called 'cheesy'  and THIS one is called 'laugh'  ?

[DrewKaree]

hey, i like your avatar! do you like mine? i thought was very topical 

I've loved ALL your Simpson's av's!  Actually, I'm just changing them to get Dartful's dander up.  He yelled at me before and hurted my feewings, so I'm gonna irritate him - kinda like a boil or something  <--That's me laughing, not "cheesy-ing" LOL

[danny_galaga]

hey, i like your avatar! do you like mine? i thought was very topical

[fredster]

The point is moot anyway. If any of you ever visit rgvac, there's a lot of posts about mame.

Here's one today I found really interesting from raven :
I talked with some guys from Monterey, Mexico who were selling cabinets
at the last Super Auction.  They said that noone has regular arcade
machines down there anymore.  All have switched over to essentially
MAME systems anyway.

And if you take a look at the 300 in 1 thread, you can see that Taiwan is using Mame for making money. 

So in this case, we are behind the curve a little bit if we are still just talking about it huh?  Wonder what kind of Licence they have?  Any apprentiships in Mexico I wonder?

[paigeoliver]

The point is moot anyway. If any of you ever visit rgvac, there's a lot of posts about mame.

Here's one today I found really interesting from raven :
I talked with some guys from Monterey, Mexico who were selling cabinets
at the last Super Auction.  They said that noone has regular arcade
machines down there anymore.  All have switched over to essentially
MAME systems anyway.

And if you take a look at the 300 in 1 thread, you can see that Taiwan is using Mame for making money. 

So in this case, we are behind the curve a little bit if we are still just talking about it huh?  Wonder what kind of Licence they have?  Any apprentiships in Mexico I wonder?

A LITTLE behind the curve? Try 6 years. I am pretty sure the first PC based asian MAME jamma boards came out in 1998, it was 1999 at the very latest.

[danny_galaga]

ah, yes. but just because it's been hecho en mexico or made in taiwan doesn't change any argument about either the legality of the software or the safety issues. but on the subject of safety- most factories will have some kinda licence that allows their 10 yo employees to assemble the item. so they are covered in that way. poor design however can bring litigation so it's in their best interest to make it safe.

as an example of copyright infringement en masse australians would be very familiar with Bali. you go there and you load up on pirated DVD's and you come home and see all the movies before they're released at the cinema. Indonesia has very lax copyright laws and so piracy is big business. THAT doesn't mean it's right though.

through all of this bear in mind i am both a devils advocate AND a whiskey priest. After all, what is on my cab if not pirated material? i'm not in denial about that. i don't justify what i've done by trying to make it seem legal. rather i acknowledge that it is piracy but i don't try and make money off it so i feel ok about it.

[crashwg]

For example (I love examples!) If you buy a copy of Windows XCellentay! And open the box, it could say, "By installing this software, you agree to allowing us into your house to have sex with your girlfriend" I can't return the software, and get my money back... But I don't want Bill Gates screwing my girlfriend.

I so hate that crap! 
I buy a PC game, go to install it, then this user agreement pops up...  I read through it and decide I cannot agree with some part of it, now what do I do?  If I don't check the "I Agree" box I won't be able to continue with the installation!  Wal*Mart's policy is to not take back any opened games...  Now what?  The ---daisies--- have you as soon as you break the seal!