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Author Topic: The Clinton gun ban has expired!  (Read 30998 times)

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Dartful Dodger

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The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« on: September 13, 2004, 02:50:09 pm »
Ban expired

It's a wonderful day to be an American.

Time to buy an assault shot gun and all the high-capacity magazines I can afford.  I don't know what rights I'll have taken away from me in 3 months.

abrannan

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2004, 03:27:12 pm »
Why?  You going to prison in three months or something?  
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2004, 03:40:49 pm »
I would guess yes considering that he's in the market for an assault shotgun.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2004, 04:23:44 pm »
I believe chris rock said it best "give everyone as many guns as they want but charge $5000 per bullet, that way you really have to want someone dead if your going to spend that kind of money on him...
its better to not post and be thought a fool, then to whip out your keyboard and remove all doubt...

Floyd10

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2004, 04:32:38 pm »
But, theres a lot of lying on that site.

(to paraphrase):

"Law abiding citizens will always be law abiding, so we should have our (un necessary) assault rifles!"

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2004, 05:12:44 pm »
Why?  You going to prison in three months or something?  

I think he was suggesting that there is the possibility that if John Kerry becomes president, he will put in place all the Gun Bans that the Democrates have been holding on to for the past 4 years.

I already have 2 on order, waiting for the 5 day cooling off period... (I live the communist state of Maryland).... Any gun law that was past in the last 10 years, started as a State law in Maryland...

Wow, guns and arcades..... I'm really happy now..... (firing guns into air....) ;D

Remember, gun laws only hurt law abiding citizens.  Bad guys don't care about laws, that why they are bad guys.....

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2004, 05:14:36 pm »
WHat I feel bad for are police officers.  Now what was once a routine stop has the potential to be much more dangerous.  You have the potential for people to buy Tek-9s, which are very small semi weapons using very common ammunition (9mm).

I really don't see a need for the common public needing access to these weapons.  SWAT teams can't use them without an executive order, but the people they are trying to stop only have 3-day waiting periods....
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2004, 06:25:08 pm »
I have not seen a single good reason that anyone could need an assault weapon.  Handguns? Sure. Shotguns? Why not.  But, an assault weapon makes no sense.  It takes away what little sport there is from hunting (not a big fan of hunting).  Unless you could sell the guns but refuse to sell the ammo/clips for such guns.  Then, collectors could collect them but they wouldn't be fireable.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2004, 09:13:00 pm »
WHat I feel bad for are police officers.  Now what was once a routine stop has the potential to be much more dangerous.  You have the potential for people to buy Tek-9s, which are very small semi weapons using very common ammunition (9mm).


You say this as if ban actually made a difference.   Only like 4% of people killed by guns in the U.S. are from the so called assault weapons.  It has dropped to around 2%, but not because they aren't available.  

Go to a gun show you'll see ak's, M-16's and almost every gun banned there.  All the ban did was stop the sale and manufacturing of new assault weapons, I think there were 16 total.  It also prohibited the functionality of the weapon,  you could only have one of these items on the gun.  Pistol grip, Folding stock,  threaded barrel for suppressor's, large capacity magazines and probably one or two other things.

One of the reasons for the drop in death could be related to the supply and demand.  Since the ban went into effect the demand by gun collectors and criminals has made the price of the gun go up.  So some psycho looking for a gun, to acctualy use on someone, might settle on something more his price range.

Anyway,  yes there is no real need for these semi-automatic weapons.  But they are fun to shoot.

side note, anyone shoot an ak-47?  Did it feel like it was about to fall apart?

namzep,
I am not positive but i believe alot of guns use the same ammo,  like a tec-9 and a 9mm use a 9mm bullet so i don't see that as ever being possible.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2004, 09:21:55 pm »
Top of my list is a new 50 round drum mag for my Thompson SMG. :D

The only good thing that came out of the assault weapons ban is passing it cost the Dems control of Congress, and ultimately the presidency. I think Kerry has screwed up by attacking Bush for letting it sunset. I voted for Bush last time around specifically to make sure that it did so, and all in all I haven't been too thrilled with him as a pres otherwise. I'd likely have sat the coming election out had Kerry kept his mouth shut about the ban, but since he made an issue of it I'm inclined to vote against him on principle.










 

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2004, 10:08:13 pm »
wow... just wow

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2004, 11:48:22 pm »
ok, since I noticed the misuse of the term, here's a reminder for the discussion:

Semi-Automatic - pull the trigger once, and one bullet is fired.  The next round is automatically chambered, but will not fire until the trigger is pulled again.

Full Automatic - the action of the firearm continues to cycle as long as the trigger is held down, which results in a steady stream of bullets being fired.

Non-Semi-Automatic - muzzle loaders, bolt action rifles, pump action shotguns, etc.  After each round is fired, the cartridge myst be manually ejected, and the next round must be manually loaded.  In a shotgun, the shell is ejected as the pump is pulled in one direction, and the next shell loaded as it is slid in the opposite.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2004, 11:51:28 pm by Nephus »

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2004, 12:38:12 am »
You say this as if ban actually made a difference.   Only like 4% of people killed by guns in the U.S. are from the so called assault weapons.  It has dropped to around 2%, but not because they aren't available.  

Go to a gun show you'll see ak's, M-16's and almost every gun banned there.  All the ban did was stop the sale and manufacturing of new assault weapons, I think there were 16 total.  It also prohibited the functionality of the weapon,  you could only have one of these items on the gun.  Pistol grip, Folding stock,  threaded barrel for suppressor's, large capacity magazines and probably one or two other things.

One of the reasons for the drop in death could be related to the supply and demand.  Since the ban went into effect the demand by gun collectors and criminals has made the price of the gun go up.  So some psycho looking for a gun, to acctualy use on someone, might settle on something more his price range.

Anyway,  yes there is no real need for these semi-automatic weapons.  But they are fun to shoot.

side note, anyone shoot an ak-47?  Did it feel like it was about to fall apart?

namzep,
I am not positive but i believe alot of guns use the same ammo,  like a tec-9 and a 9mm use a 9mm bullet so i don't see that as ever being possible.

I'll clarify a bit.

There were 19 weapons who's import was banned. They couldn't ban AR-15s or MINI 14s, putting american workers out of jobs looks bad come election time. ;) ARs and Mini-14s did have some of their features limited though.

The ban was all about "evil" features. Seperate pistol grip, bayonet lug, flash hider, carry handle, folding/collapsable stock, and hi cap magazine. Post ban imports are allowed two plus the mag, unless they contain more that 10 US made parts. Early on, the result was things like "thumbhole" stocks, and non removable muzzle brakes. Then enterprising US companies picked up the slack and started making parts. Before long we were again able to buy AKs, FN-FALs, and just about every other weapon that was banned in '94.

On the magazine side, production of domestic high capacity magazines was banned, as was the import of any hi cap mag that was made after the ban. (except for LEO use) M-16 and AK magazines are no different than AR-15 and semi AK magazines, and total production of pre ban mags for them is in the 100's of millions worldwide. Excepting late '94 and '99 (y2k scare) prices on them have remained fairly stable and the supply has never been exceeded by the demand.

As to AKs in general, I own three. I'm partial to the milled reciever AK, but the stamped reciever weapons function at least as well. They're not as accurate as an AR, but fill the receiver with enough mud to jam a dozen ARs and it'll still function. Every time. Honestly I can't say I've ever had an AK go click instead of bang, unless I'd lost count and the mag was empty.


As to Darkstalker's fears, Tec-9s are utter crap. Any criminal who uses one will shortly learn the error of his ways. Permanently. ;) Typical police issue body armor will stop 9MM and just about all pistol rounds. AR and AK rounds will penetrate, but then criminals want guns they can conceil and assault rifles don't fill that bill. Don't believe me? Ask a cop.

@namzep:
I bought my first "assault" rifle on my 18th birthday. Why? because I like them and I could. ;)
I've hunted with a .308 Galil (Israeli AK variant), the AR I bought as my first rifle,  and a few of the others. I disagree with your assesment in that:

1) Hunting with a hi capacity mag is illegal everywhere in the US. 5 rounds max in a rifle, 3 in a shotgun. If a game warden catches you hunting with a 30 round banana clip, your ass is going to jail.

2) Depending on the game, (e.g. deer) assault weapon rounds are underpowered and therefore illegal to hunt with. For all the anti-gun myths about AK rounds penetrating brick walls, you simply can't make a clean kill with it at normal hunting ranges.

3) Assault weapons generally don't lend themselves to having telescopic sights fitted. Open sights are fine at combat ranges, but you can barely see a deer through them at hunting ranges. If you can't see it, you can't hit it, and most hunters won't take a shot when the chances of wounding an animal outweigh the odds of killing it outright.

That said, most shooting done by assault weapon collectors is either target shooting or plinking. Plinking is just the recreational shooting of inanimate objects. My favorite plinking targets are bowling pins, but cans, water jugs, ect are common as well. The ammo is cheap, you can't hurt the weapons, and they're just flat out fun to shoot. :)

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2004, 01:39:37 am »
I have not seen a single good reason that anyone could need an assault weapon.
It's just as easy to say "I have not seen a single good reason that anyone can give me to ban an assault weapon".  

If the proliferation of assault weapons will lead to higher death rates, in your mind, then please tell me your foolproof plan for removing these weapons from the grasp of criminals who wish to use them to commit crime.  

After you've given us that foolproof plan, then you can tell me all your reasons for why ELSE we shouldn't be allowed to have them, but until then, we, as americans, are free (as in land of the free?) to purchase things that may be detrimental to our health and to the health of others.  I'll gladly give you the ability to ban all guns, no matter the type, when you ban:

1) alcohol (one of the top causes of traffic fatalities, right? AND bad for you!)

2) smoking of all kinds, ESPECIALLY the left-handed cigarettes, since second-hand smoke is attributed to cancer deaths in non-smokers

3)automobiles (I have yet to hear of a traffic fatality that didn't include at least one of these death-mobiles...don't even get me started on the I.Q.'s of some of these "drivers")

4)knives of ANY kind - second-most preferred weapon used in armed robberies, and something that can kill, if used by someone with criminal intent

5)rope - #1 weapon of choice in all strangling deaths, and something we should regulate due to the possible accidental "mis-firing" and subsequent entanglement in said weapon, thereby leading to death


See, there are many things that can kill you in this world, some more dangerous than others.  These things CAN kill if criminals are allowed to have them.  They are safe if in the hands of law-abiding citizens (although an accidental "discharge of the above items, as well as others not named here, has been known to occur).  

You see no need for them, although many others do see a need, if only to satisfy the urge to possess it.  You CANNOT legislate personal responsibility, and this is yet one more attempt to do so.  You wish to have the criminal-minded among us conform to your laws, when by definition, the criminal is the person for whom bans and laws will be scoffed at and disregarded.  When you understand the definition of the word criminal, you will be well on your way to understanding why bans will only ensure the law-abiding citizen will be complying, while the criminal uses the ban as an opportunity to be one of a minority capable of forcing their will on those who have complied.

Please stick to ensuring that your VIEWS do not infringe upon my RIGHTS.  I may have to ask for a ban on your free speech. ::)
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2004, 02:17:25 am »
Apparently the "cooling off" period must vary from state to state.  I purchased several handguns and a rifle at a gun show when I lived in Louisiana, and had to wait all of 15 minutes for my background check to come through.  I could have bought guns, ammo, knives, everything I needed and been out in less than one hour.

Oh, and the hottest selling item at that gun show?  The Bill Clinton 3 dollar bill.

Edit:  Oh, and the creepy looking guy who sold me the .38 special in the alley behind the pawn shop downtown didn't make me do any kind of background check at all... should I report him?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 03:26:44 am by Mameotron »

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2004, 03:02:59 am »
NC has a novel system. You stop by the sherrif's office before the show, have the background check run there while you wait, and buy "pistol purchase permits" to take with you to the show. $5 each, good for 5 years and you can get 5 permits a trip.  You take these with you to a show, buy your gun, fill out the yellow form, and give one to the dealer. Long guns don't require them, handguns do but you can use one in lieu of the instant check for any firearm where the the dealer is having trouble getting through to get an instant check run. In either case the purchase permit supercedes the Brady waiting period and you can take your new toy home that day.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2004, 08:27:54 am »
Why?  You going to prison in three months or something?  

I think he was suggesting that there is the possibility that if John Kerry becomes president, he will put in place all the Gun Bans that the Democrates have been holding on to for the past 4 years.


I'm well aware of what he was insinuating, but the election is in two months, not three.  And even if Kerry should happen to get elected along with enough Congressional seats going Democrat to allow whatever laws the Dems want to get passed, the inauguration isn't until January, which, by my watch, is 4 months away.  So I'm just curious to hear what he thinks is going to happen in December.  Unless he's counting on another election fiasco that will take until mid-December to work out.  

I'm also in Maryland, and I'm a Democrat, but I'm very anti gun ban.  I don't own a gun, and don't plan to, but I fully support the right to own.  
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Assault rifle ban lifted
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2004, 11:19:17 am »
I don't see the need for some of the high-power rifles and such, but I would still like to own a few (Toolman style).  One thing I found a little disturbing was a quick note at the bottom of this http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5946127/ MSN article though:

"Now, some gun manufacturers are planning to give away high-capacity magazines as bonuses for buying their weapons. Sales of formerly banned gun accessories, such as flash suppressors and folding stocks, are also expected to take off."

Flash suppressors? :o  Umm... what is the arguement for needing something like that?  Seems a bit much to me other than a "coolness factor".  Discuss...

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Re:Assault rifle ban lifted
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2004, 11:27:30 am »

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2004, 11:34:33 am »
What is the need for a flash suppressor?  And 30 round clips?  If their not legal to use for hunting, I just don't see the "need" for them to be legal.  Of course if you could go and recreationally toss a few grenades, and call that plinking, I'd have a case behind the couch ;)

I just don't understand the arguement for needing something like that.

remember: Guns don't kill people, people kill people.  A flash suppressor and a couple 30 round clips should make it easier to get away of course...

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2004, 12:32:32 pm »
Quote
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I respectfully disagree. Guns do kill people. For every story about someone defending him/herself with a gun, there are probably twenty stories about four-year-old girls accidentally killing themselves with guns, or "heat of the moment" type killings that wouldn't happen if they didn't have guns, or people shooting their own kids coming through the window, or people blowing away drunken, lost Scotsmen who are knocking at the door. That's why there are no guns at my house and my kids aren't allowed to go to anyone's house where there is a gun.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is poppycock.
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2004, 12:41:35 pm »
Quote
And 30 round clips?

So you don't have to reload. Duh.

The point about gun control is the control part.  Give and inch, they take a mile. Before you know it, they'll want to take all of them.

There's a little decrepancy on what "assault" weapons are anyway.

I've had a gun of some sort and used it since I was 7.  NOT having guns is the problem, people dont' know respect for them.

You should have seen the 'urbans' who had no idea what a gun was when I joined the army.
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2004, 12:59:10 pm »
I have not seen a single good reason that anyone could need an assault weapon.  Handguns? Sure. Shotguns? Why not.  But, an assault weapon makes no sense.  It takes away what little sport there is from hunting (not a big fan of hunting).  Unless you could sell the guns but refuse to sell the ammo/clips for such guns.  Then, collectors could collect them but they wouldn't be fireable.
Quote
I just don't understand the arguement for needing  something like that.
Why get an assault gun, because you can.  Plus selling without the magazine would not be a good idea, the whole look of some guns it recognized by the magazine.  And AK47, MP5, M16, AUG would all just look weird without a mag.  Plus for a collector it needs to be a working model in order for it to be worth anything.  It's like transformer toys.  The transformer isn't worth much if it isn't in complete working condition.

Sport cars and SUVs kill people too and they are unnessessary yet we buy those in droves.

For some people it's not about what the gun can do versus just owning it.  How many people who own a Hummer (not an H2) actually put the Hummer to it's paces?  I want to see someone who bought the smoke stack for it and actually drive it through 5ft of water regularly.

you will get the same type of argument from someone who doesn't understand why you have an arcade cabinet.  They will wonder why you need it.  You don't, you wanted one.

Quote
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is poppycock.
no, people kill people.  The gun alone can't do anything.  That's the point of the saying.  You mentioned a kid accidently shooting themselves.  That's the parents fault for not properly storing the gun in a locked gun cabinet with a trigger lock and storing the ammo seperately and not in the gun.  All your examples can basically boil down to it was the person's fault.  Plus some of them really don't happen that often and you were listing rare occations as examples.

People act like it's the guns fault when it isn't.  People have been killing people even before guns were invented.  Same story, different


Edit:

Oh yeah, to add how many of you have kids and a knife block sitting on your kitchen counter?  I've seen just as many stories of kids seriously injuriing or dieing because they played with the sharpest knifes in the house.  So it isn't guns or knifes, it's the people.

I merged the wo gun ban threads together...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 01:32:08 pm by SirPoonga »

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2004, 01:15:08 pm »
Quote
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I respectfully disagree. Guns do kill people. For every story about someone defending him/herself with a gun, there are probably twenty stories about four-year-old girls accidentally killing themselves with guns, or "heat of the moment" type killings that wouldn't happen if they didn't have guns, or people shooting their own kids coming through the window, or people blowing away drunken, lost Scotsmen who are knocking at the door. That's why there are no guns at my house and my kids aren't allowed to go to anyone's house where there is a gun.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is poppycock.

Uhh, in every one of the circumstances you just mentioned, people are the ones pulling the trigger.  Just because it's an "accident" does not mean it is the gun's fault.  Responsible gun owners don't allow their children unsupervised access to their guns, nor do they shoot without knowing what they are shooting at.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 01:18:42 pm by RacerX »

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2004, 01:20:44 pm »
I have not seen a single good reason that anyone could need an assault weapon.  Handguns? Sure. Shotguns? Why not.  But, an assault weapon makes no sense.  It takes away what little sport there is from hunting (not a big fan of hunting).  Unless you could sell the guns but refuse to sell the ammo/clips for such guns.  Then, collectors could collect them but they wouldn't be fireable.
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I just don't understand the arguement for needing  something like that.
Why get an assault gun, because you can.  Plus selling without the magazine would not be a good idea, the whole look of some guns it recognized by the magazine.  And AK47, MP5, M16, AUG would all just look weird without a mag.  Plus for a collector it needs to be a working model in order for it to be worth anything.  It's like transformer toys.  The transformer isn't worth much if it isn't in complete working condition.

Sport cars and SUVs kill people too and they are unnessessary yet we buy those in droves.

For some people it's not about what the gun can do versus just owning it.  How many people who own a Hummer (not an H2) actually put the Hummer to it's paces?  I want to see someone who bought the smoke stack for it and actually drive it through 5ft of water regularly.

you will get the same type of argument from someone who doesn't understand why you have an arcade cabinet.  They will wonder why you need it.  You don't, you wanted one.

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"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is poppycock.
no, people kill people.  The gun alone can't do anything.  That's the point of the saying.  You mentioned a kid accidently shooting themselves.  That's the parents fault for not properly storing the gun in a locked gun cabinet with a trigger lock and storing the ammo seperately and not in the gun.  All your examples can basically boil down to it was the person's fault.  Plus some of them really don't happen that often and you were listing rare occations as examples.

People act like it's the guns fault when it isn't.  People have been killing people even before guns were invented.  Same story, different tools.  Banning guns isn't going to stop anything.

owned!!!   :P
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2004, 01:41:33 pm »
Agreed, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Following that logic that "guns kill people" is like saying "pencils make mistakes".

I don't agree that for every one story of a person with a gun protecting themselves there's 20 storys of guns hurting people.  

I'd say it's more like there's no story in a person protecting themselves so for every story of a gun hurting people, there's 30 stories not reported of guns protecting people.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2004, 01:55:36 pm »
I'd say it's more like there's no story in a person protecting themselves so for every story of a gun hurting people, there's 30 stories not reported of guns protecting people.

Exactly, the media just likes to print the juicy stories.
plus this is talking about normal guns, not assault rifles.  having or not having assault rifles wouldn't change any of this.  The guns used in those cases are usually handguns that someone purchased to have some protection around the house.  I doubt you are going to get an assault rifle for that.

BTW, if anyone wants to "shoot" other people with an assault rifle check out airsoft.  Airsoft is an alternative to painball where you use small plastic BBs instead of paintballs.  And because of this the guns can be more realistic :)  Most airsoft fields have limits and safety rules you have to abide by such as limiting a gun to 300-400fps and have to were full face paintball mask.  and suggest you wear heavy clothes like BDUs.

And no, I don't want to start the argument that these guns should be banned because they look real.  If you are going to commit a crime with a real gun or a fake gun that looks like a real gun you deserve the same consequences.  You obviously got the fake gun that looks real because you knew people would think it looks real and act like it's a real gun.  Therefore you deserve the same consenquences.  I find putting the orange tips on those type of guns hilarious.  A cop isn't going to go easy on you because you have an orange tip ont he gun.  The cop doesn't know if it is a real gun with a painted tip so he/she is going to act the same in either case.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2004, 02:08:37 pm »
What is the assult weapon anyway?
is it a weapon that is fully automatic?  Is it a semi-automatic?

Was this ban a response to Columbine?  
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2004, 02:14:24 pm »
"And the National Rifle Association says that, 'Guns don't kill people, people do,' but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, 'Bang'! That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that�"

-Eddie Izzard, "Dressed to Kill"
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2004, 02:15:42 pm »
More kids die playing sports than are killed with guns.

A year or two ago in Chicago(a city that doesn't allow people to own a hand gun) a guy went into a car parts warehouse and shot and killed seven people.  At the time of the shooting Daley wanted to sue the people who sell guns to criminals, so they traced the origins of the gun. The gun was previously owned by a Vietnam vet, who bought it from a state police officer, who bought it from another state police officer.  As of yet, I haven

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2004, 02:39:00 pm »
I owned a few guns that my grandfather gave to me.  None of this ridiculous automatic stuff with giant clips and such, just hunting rifles and a handgun.  I told my parents to keep them because I don't need any guns in my house.  I don't hunt, and I don't enjoy target shooting.  Therefore, I don't see the point of keeping them around.  I respect people's rights to have hunting rifles and maybe a handgun for protection (but that's a stretch), but I think that there is no legitimate use for an assault weapon in civilian hands.  The former ban was too weak.  It should have outlawed even the pre-ban models.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2004, 02:39:44 pm »
Guns in general will never go away.  That's a fact (and I like that).  But I think regulation should be here to stay as well.  Is there any legitimate use for a flash suppressor, 30 round clips, and high powered assault rifles?  Maybe I wasn't clear, but I kind of think this ban was a good idea and should have been continued.  There has to be a line drawn somewhere or else I want my case of grenades dammit.

So I'm Pro-guns and Pro-regulation.  Treat them like a roads speed limit.  Be careful and be reasonable.  But is allowing the ban on these specific items to expire reasonable?  That's my concern.  I don't think it is.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2004, 02:41:49 pm »
What is the assult weapon anyway?
is it a weapon that is fully automatic?  Is it a semi-automatic?

Was this ban a response to Columbine?  

It bans guns with certain options on them that classifies them as "assult" weapons.

Fully automatic weapons are already banned so this law doesn't affect it

This assult weapons ban was in effect before Columbine.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2004, 02:59:27 pm »
What is the assult weapon anyway?
is it a weapon that is fully automatic?  Is it a semi-automatic?

Was this ban a response to Columbine?  

Assault rifles by definition are selective fire (full auto or burst fire) military weapons that fire a intermediate rifle cartridge. Such weapons fall under the National Firearms Act and civilian possesion is heavily by the federal government. They're legal to posess in several states, and the registered owners of such weapons have a stellar record of not commiting crimes with them. Since machine guns were registered in '35, there's been one case where someone commited a crime with one. He was a cop and should've known better.  ;)

The '94 ban was placed on semi-auto replicas of true assault rifles, which are similar but have to be redesigned to prevent them from being easily converted to full auto weapons.

Columbine happened after the ban was in effect. Several of the parents who's kids were killed there have come out in support of allowing the ban to expire. The reality is this ban did nothing to prevent crime.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2004, 04:01:18 pm »
I have not seen a single good reason that anyone could need an assault weapon.
It's just as easy to say "I have not seen a single good reason that anyone can give me to ban an assault weapon".  

If the proliferation of assault weapons will lead to higher death rates, in your mind, then please tell me your foolproof plan for removing these weapons from the grasp of criminals who wish to use them to commit crime.  
Don't really agree here, but It's all opinion so far, and speculation
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After you've given us that foolproof plan, then you can tell me all your reasons for why ELSE we shouldn't be allowed to have them, but until then, we, as americans, are free (as in land of the free?) to purchase things that may be detrimental to our health and to the health of others.  I'll gladly give you the ability to ban all guns, no matter the type, when you ban:
WHOAH WHOAH WHOAH! slow down!
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1) alcohol (one of the top causes of traffic fatalities, right? AND bad for you!)

2) smoking of all kinds, ESPECIALLY the left-handed cigarettes, since second-hand smoke is attributed to cancer deaths in non-smokers
Not true. Marijuana (which is relatively harmless), Crack, Cocaine, Extacy, Shrooms, and more I'm not mentioning.
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3)automobiles (I have yet to hear of a traffic fatality that didn't include at least one of these death-mobiles...don't even get me started on the I.Q.'s of some of these "drivers")

4)knives of ANY kind - second-most preferred weapon used in armed robberies, and something that can kill, if used by someone with criminal intent
Close... Switchblades are illegal. Gravity knives is a stretch.
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5)rope - #1 weapon of choice in all strangling deaths, and something we should regulate due to the possible accidental "mis-firing" and subsequent entanglement in said weapon, thereby leading to death


See, there are many things that can kill you in this world, some more dangerous than others.  These things CAN kill if criminals are allowed to have them.  They are safe if in the hands of law-abiding citizens (although an accidental "discharge of the above items, as well as others not named here, has been known to occur).  

You see no need for them, although many others do see a need, if only to satisfy the urge to possess it.  You CANNOT legislate personal responsibility, and this is yet one more attempt to do so.  You wish to have the criminal-minded among us conform to your laws, when by definition, the criminal is the person for whom bans and laws will be scoffed at and disregarded.  When you understand the definition of the word criminal, you will be well on your way to understanding why bans will only ensure the law-abiding citizen will be complying, while the criminal uses the ban as an opportunity to be one of a minority capable of forcing their will on those who have complied.
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Well other than to mount them (Which is still bull in my opinion) there isn't any other reason to own them but to raise some hell.
Please stick to ensuring that your VIEWS do not infringe upon my RIGHTS.  I may have to ask for a ban on your free speech. ::)

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2004, 04:29:55 pm »
Only the most ridiculous of fanatics does not believe in gun control.  I suspect that everyone here believes that many weapons should be banned -- illegal to sell, illegal to buy, illegal to own.  Grenades, Sarin Gas, Bazookas, land mines, C-4.  

The constitution doesn't guarantee the right to bare guns, but the right to bare arms.  Certainly, all of those weapons listed above would be considered arms, as well as dozens of others that we would all agree should not be available for sale or purchase.  And if the second amendment entirely prohibits the government from interfering with the trade of arms, that restriction on the government powers would apply to all of those weapons as well as assault rifles.  But everyone here, including the gun nuts, should understand that the rights in the second amendment, like the rights in every other amendment, are not absolute.  There are exceptions to freedom of speach, religion, press, jury trial, search and seizure, speedy trial, etc.

I suspect that we all believe in arms (gun) control.  We just draw our respective lines in different places.  
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 04:35:36 pm by shmokes »
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2004, 06:30:40 pm »
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Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

I respectfully disagree. Guns do kill people. For every story about someone defending him/herself with a gun, there are probably twenty stories about four-year-old girls accidentally killing themselves with guns, or "heat of the moment" type killings that wouldn't happen if they didn't have guns, or people shooting their own kids coming through the window, or people blowing away drunken, lost Scotsmen who are knocking at the door. That's why there are no guns at my house and my kids aren't allowed to go to anyone's house where there is a gun.

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is poppycock.

perfectly said. You just saved me typing all that in. :)

I understand target shooting as a sport, I did it in the RAF cadets. I enjoy shooting rifles and guns at targets. It's a skill.

But why anybody other than people who use them in the military would actually want, or should be allowed to own a firearm is beyond me.

(and don't give me that 'it's so we can defend ourselves and our country,and take our country back from an opressive government' crap... you have that now and i dont see any of you taking to the streets)
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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2004, 06:47:03 pm »
But why anybody other than people who use them in the military would actually want, or should be allowed to own a firearm is beyond me.
See my statement :)

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2004, 07:15:43 pm »
Actually, you know what is going to piss me off.  Having a ban on assault rifles or not isn't going to change anything.  It isn't going to make crime go up or down.  Criminals will use whatever weapons they have available.  You could still get assault rifles even during the ban, you just had to work hard for it.

What's going to piss me off is the first crime that is committed with an assault rifle they will blame on the ban lift.  That if the ban was still in place the crime would not have happen.  Yeah, whatever.  The person would have used a normal gun then.  Wouldn't make a difference if the crime would have happened or not.

The only thing it will effect is the number of crimes now commited with assault rifles.  But the crime would have still taken place.  A normal rifle you can buy is just as dangerous.

Now, if oyu made the guns and the ammo used for the guns (NATO rounds, etc..) expensive to the public that would be a different story.

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Re:The Clinton gun ban has expired!
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2004, 07:38:01 pm »
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I understand target shooting as a sport, I did it in the RAF cadets. I enjoy shooting rifles and guns at targets. It's a skill.

I do too. I also enjoy owning my own weapons. Did the cadets let you customize a weapon till it fit you like a glove? I can do so with any of mine.

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But why anybody other than people who use them in the military would actually want, or should be allowed to own a firearm is beyond me.

It's about self-determination. Our constitution recognizes the right to bear arms as a natural right, like free speach or public assembly. It's not a privilege granted by the government, therefore it cannot be taken away. Since our populace is so well armed, a government that tried such a thing would be deposed.

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(and don't give me that 'it's so we can defend ourselves and our country,and take our country back from an opressive government' crap... you have that now and i dont see any of you taking to the streets)

We're a pretty tolerant bunch, and our government doesn't have the brass to try and outlaw our weapons outright.

This does get me thinking though.

There's been a million man march, and a million mom march and nobody paid any attention.
I wonder if they would notice if a million armed citizens marched on Washington. We have both the manpower and firepower to assemble 10 times that. ;)