so.. where's the plane?

[Nephus]

Dunno if this one has been posted before around here, but it popped up in one of my other forums for the first time.

http://www.muchosucko.com/flash/pentagonlies.html#Main

I think it speaks for itself.

[menace]

very interesting... i had no idea there was any controversy surrounding the pentagon crash--makes me wonder how many other things i accept without question...

[SirPeale]

...wow...

[GGKoul]

American Media at it's best.  Reports what the Government tells them to reports.

Regardless, something hit the pentagon and many people died on 9/11.   Never forget that.

[Dartful Dodger]

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.

[GGKoul]

"You can't handle the truth..." Right?

So it's better to not speak about it and leave people in the dark, then dealing with the peoples reactions to the truth.  

Which is better?

Because eventually, people learn the Truth and then backlash against the people that withheld the truth.

[Dartful Dodger]

Tomorrow that site and all of that went to that site are going to disappear.

Thanks Nephus

[daeven]

No offense to anyone who believes that site, but what a load of BS.  The wings, tail, and all parts of the airplane that hit the Pentagon were moving at the same speed when they hit it.  Do you really think a many-thousand pound wing (loaded with fuel I might add) travelling at hundreds of miles per hour is not going to penetrate a brick-and glass wall?  The wreckage of the plane would be INSIDE the building, not on the ground outside the building.  For the wreckage to be outside, it would have had to bounce off the building - not likely even on the Pentagon.

Also, I remember initial reports of the World Trade Center planes were small commuter jets.  People aren't used to seeing planes fly into buildings - I imagine their perception gets thrown off when they actually see it happen.

Furthermore, I expect that the sound of a plane descending into a building to be quite different than the usual racket that most of us associate with large aircraft.  How can a typical person claim it sounded like a missile?  Have they ever heard a missile?  I haven't, but I'm guessing they are pretty f'ing loud.

[GameDork]

Holy Cow!! I never thought about the absence of a plane there!!

But, I wonder, there was a Flight 77 wasn't there? What happened to it?

[menace]

The wings, tail, and all parts of the airplane that hit the Pentagon were moving at the same speed when they hit it

that's precisely the point--that building should have been devastated as well as the surrounding lawn--there were second story windows with glass (assuming the photo wasn't retouched)  that much metal fuel etc should have obliterated that end of the building and by saying it crashed ahead of the building so as to minimize impact is crap as well
the area is clearly in too good of condition 9again assuming the photos weren't retouched)

Furthermore, I expect that the sound of a plane descending into a building to be quite different than the usual racket that most of us associate with large aircraft.  How can a typical person claim it sounded like a missile?  Have they ever heard a missile?  I haven't, but I'm guessing they are pretty f'ing loud.

I've stood at the end of a runway when a 747 was coming down--the scream is DEAFENING even at 1200 ft from the threshold--it made me curious as to why noone noticed that noise--its unmistakable--I assume a missile (being of considerably less mass and having much less thrust and weight) would be considerably quieter and could be missed --just a thought...

[GGKoul]

If it was a shouder missile... why didnt they fire another one at the White House or the Capital Building?

It was probably a small commuter plane.  Not a 747.

[whammoed]

good point, i would think there would be some, if not many, non-government people that would know if that flight existed and its fate.

[GGKoul]

Maybe Miltary Jets shot down Flight 77... and the pentagon crash is a cover up???  

[GGKoul]

Here's another site asking when Flight 77 is?

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flight77.htm


http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm  - This one give you an idea what kind of plane could have hit the pentagon.

[GameDork]

I was think too, if you watch the videos of the Trade Center being hit by the planes, you see the explosion ALL the way through the entire building. It (the explosion)  actually comes out the other side!! (all 4 sides for that matter)

Why did this "757" manage to damage so little??

[whammoed]

I was think too, if you watch the videos of the Trade Center being hit by the planes, you see the explosion ALL the way through the entire building. It (the explosion)  actually comes out the other side!! (all 4 sides for that matter)

Why did this "757" manage to damage so little??

Well, it is different construction.  The pentagon is built like a brick #$%*house while a skyscraper actually has to be constructed so it sways with the wind.

[GGKoul]

I was think too, if you watch the videos of the Trade Center being hit by the planes, you see the explosion ALL the way through the entire building. It (the explosion)  actually comes out the other side!! (all 4 sides for that matter)

Why did this "757" manage to damage so little??

Well, it is different construction.  The pentagon is built like a brick #$%*house while a skyscraper actually has to be constructed so it sways with the wind.

Regardless.. how would you explain this??

[whammoed]

Oh, i admit it is odd.  I would think there would be more video captured too.  There has to more surveilance than those crummy pics of the explosion.  Then again there are eyewitness accounts of the event too that say it was a plane.

[GGKoul]

Yes a plane.. but what size of plane?

[Zakk]

Wow, that's really weird.  There really is no way that a plane that big went in where the damage is.  Add to the fact that most of that damage was caused in the collapse after.  Look at the inside rings, it didn't even knock down satellite dishes or anything.  A quick google search resulted in a pile of these pages.  I wonder why it is that when something like this comes to light, it so rarely is properly investigated?  Is the government THAT powerful?  I mean, they can't find bin laden, but they can make the whole world beleive that a 757 made a hole the size of a hugo in the pentagon.  
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/77_photo.htm  (big photo, but look at the lack of damage to the inside rings).  WTF??  Well built that building may be, but not THAT well built.

 Wait, there's someone at the door...oh they just came right on in...nice black suits they have on HEY WHAT ARE YOU DO.......

[Darkstalker]

"I mean, they can't find bin laden, but they can make the whole world beleive that a 757 made a hole the size of a hugo in the pentagon. "

It's too far from the election date to "find" him.

[MasTequila]

I took a tour of the Pentagon once (circa 2000) and it is like a fortress, but the ground outside is the true teller on this.  530 mph and 2 feet off the ground and all the grass is undisturbed.

My real question is the fact that the government is fudging what hit the Pentagon as bad as not knowing what happened to flight 77?

~Mas

[GGKoul]

"I mean, they can't find bin laden, but they can make the whole world beleive that a 757 made a hole the size of a hugo in the pentagon. "

It's too far from the election date to "find" him.

I completely agree... Bin Laden will be "caught" sometime near the end of October.  He's GW's Trump card.

[itismejs]

Any one who belives this should get help...

[Zakk]

Enlighten us.

[RacerX]

 Those wings must have disintegrated on impact.  Notice the most damage is where the fusilage hit the building.  I'm sure there were tiny bits of the airplane all over the inside where it went in.

I'm not saying believe everything you see or hear on the news.  Far from it.  But come on folks, there is no conspiracy here.  

The urban legends web site has some good information on the whole "controversy".

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

[Dartful Dodger]

Enlighten us.

An aluminum plane build so that it could be light enough to fly carrying full fuel cells, hits a concrete building build so that it can fend off an attack.  I'm sure the engineers who designed it have been fired for even letting a "Hugo" sized hole happen.

I didn't see any pictures of the planes after they hit the world trade center either.  And there were no skid marks leading up to the towers.

If it wasn't for all the video footage, you'd believe a webpage claiming aliens had fired lasers at all the targets.

also

Bush doesn't need a trump card, he's running against Kerry.

So Bin Laden's head would just be the cherry on top of his re-election sundae.

[fredster]

I cannot believe that we have forgotten 9/11.

Where are the passengers?  I guess the bodies they pulled out were not there.  I guess the parts of the plane they pulled out didn't exist either.

I guess we call all call the victim's wives, husbands, and children and ask them if they are fake.  Anybody here want to do that?

Anybody see the wreck in PA?

Now, let's discuss the Moon Landing - How about the Grassy Knoll?

Anybody see Elvis?

I can't believe how short a memory people have.

[Zakk]

Hey, don't get me wrong, it was a horrible tragedy, and yes I do beleive that a lot of innocent people lost their lives.  It just looks pretty strange.

However, since it seems that any kind of conversation in here is going to turn into a "Bush rules, don't question the government!!!!!!" bit of tripe, I think I'll just skip this forum until after the election.  It's too bad that even a friendly forum  has to turn into a flame-bait mess.  Hey, I don't give a rats hind end who wins your election.  Good luck to both candidates, may the best man win and all that.    caio.

[Dartful Dodger]

Bush rules, don't question the government!!!!!!

[Valence]

Furthermore, I expect that the sound of a plane descending into a building to be quite different than the usual racket that most of us associate with large aircraft.  How can a typical person claim it sounded like a missile?  Have they ever heard a missile?  I haven't, but I'm guessing they are pretty f'ing loud.

I believe that if there is any place in the world where people would be able to distinguish between an Air liner and a missle,  it would be at the Petagon.  


But, that side of the building had just finished being renovated. The main goal of renovation was hardening the building. While all the walls of the petagon were strong, that side was significantly stonger.  

[namzep]

It's an interesting idea, to say the least.  It'll be nice when Kerry is elected in November, by the way.  Don't think much will change but at least we won't have an idiot for president.

[Floyd10]

With the whole "The wings should have made impact" bit, Ever stop to think that the plane might have swerved, and ONLY the wing hit it? Maybe just my imagination...

[RayB]

UGH. All these months I avoided coming into the "Everything Else" forum, and today i venture in for the first time only to find this kind of nonense. It really changes my impression of the kind of guys who frequent this board.  

All I have to say is that it's too damn easy to come up with alternative interpretations, especially based on media only available on the web. How about talking to actual investigators who were on the scene, about the facts of a situation? People who rely on facts rather than so-called "common sense". No. It's easier to look at low resolution JPEGS on the internet and extrapolate from there. And somehow the government is so well organized that they can't cover up a simple intern/president blow-job affair, yet they can somehow manage to "shut up" hundreds of people who ended up on the scene to deal with the Pentagon emergency, and shut up the entire crew and passengers of an airliner that supposedly went missing but didn't crash. Wow. Not one person escaped "the government". Amazing. They must be using some sort of alien technology based on the crashed remains of an alien craft.

There's other sites on the net that make other conspiracy claims such as the Berg beheading taking place in Abu Graib prison by Americans. How do they come to this conclusion? Oh the hooded guys in bullet proof vests look too fat to be Iraqis(oh ok), and there's a white plastic lawn chair in the video! OH DEAR! It's obvious then. White chair in Berg video. White chairs in Abu Graib prison photos. It all makes sense now... Until you f'ing do a little research and find out that white plastic chairs are ALL OVER Iraq, and the rest of the middle east, and south-east asia (and hey, you can even find them in Amerika). Why? They're CHEAP. And my point is, it's easy to draw "common sense" conclusions when you're missing the knowledge that would show you the conclusions are a stretch.

Yet another example: Moon landings are fake! The photos of the moon show no stars! Well there you go. Anyone with "common sense" would know that the moon has no atmosphere and you should be able to see thousands more stars than we can see here on earth. Except the "common sense" people who believe this are ignorant of how cameras and photographic film work. You can't set the exposure of film to BOTH capture low light and bright light. You have to compensate for one or the other.

And case in point here... NASA has recently been re-scanning old negatives, since we now have much better quality digital scanners. They've posted some fabulous moon landing shots on their website. Anyone can go download them right now. I did. And wow. No stars! Oh my god! The conspiracists are right! But I loaded the image into Photoshop and tweaked the brightness/contrast and what do you know. There ARE stars. They are just so faint because the camera aperture was set to capture foreground images being illuminated by a VERY bright sun.

What will the conspiracists say? Oh NASA drew the stars in. OH WHATEVER!  

Wake up people. If you're going to believe something because it "sounds plausible" and you want to think you're being open-minded by thinking maybe it's possible, how about stopping for a second and asking yourself if maybe you're just being gullible?

~Ray B.

[Setabs]

I like this picture

And notice how the section doesn't even look the same in the picture it was croped from



Until they prove otherwise I beleave that a plane crashed into the pentagon. I still wouldn't put it past some members of the gov. to do something like this especialy since a few people tried to do similar things beforehttp://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

[DrewKaree]

so stuff like this couldn't possibly be a concocted farce, even though
"in a country this divided and partisan it's silly to suggest that it would be difficult to find a group of people like this to lie."

Oh, and wouldn't it benefit Bush to let it out that we had a missile dropped on the Pentagon?  Something about WMD's and all    

If this is to be believed by some, you guys should all see Mel Gibson's "Conspiracy Theory".  AWESOME movie, and you'll probably find it to be a documentary, rather than entertainment.

Be careful how you reply;  Big Brother is reading!

[GGKoul]

Bush rules, don't question the government!!!!!!

Nothing landed in Roswell and Area 51 is fake.

[Nephus]

And there were no skid marks leading up to the towers.

If you can't figure out why there wouldn't be marks on the ground from a plane that hit the top of a sky-scraper (one of the tallest buildings in NY as a matter of fact) vs. how strange it is that a plane which was 25' off the ground didn't leave any... then you really don't need to be insulting anyone's intelligence.

[Tailgunner]

"On a Metro train to National Airport, Allen Cleveland looked out the window to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. 'I thought, "There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,"' he said. Before he could process that thought, he saw 'a huge mushroom cloud. The lady next to me was in absolute hysterics.'"
- "Our Plane Is Being Hijacked." Washington Post, 12 Sep 2001


"I was supposed to have been going to the Pentagon Tuesday morning at about 11:00am (EDT) and was getting ready, and thank goodness I wasn't going to be going until later. It was so shocking, I was listening to the news on what had happened in New York, and just happened to look out the window because I heard a low flying plane and then I saw it hit the Pentagon. It happened so fast... it was in the air one moment and in the building the next..."
- "U.S. Under Attack: Your Eyewitness Accounts." BBC News, 14 Sep 2001


"As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead. ... Seconds before the Pentagon came into view a huge black cloud of smoke rose above the road ahead. I came around the bend and there was the Pentagon billowing smoke, flames and debris, blackened on one side and with a gaping hole where the airplane had hit it."
- "Eyewitness at the Pentagon." Human Events, 17 Sep 2001


"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery." The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002


"USAToday.com Editor Joel Sucherman saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. It was highly unusual. The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. 'My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to [Reagan] National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction,' Sucherman said. 'It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle

[Floyd10]

lol. someone forgot to mention... THOSE ARE ALL SLANTED PAPERS!!! D---ED liBERALS!!!