Please support our troops.

[MasTequila]

Alright I got to say this to preface where I am coming from.  I am a 20 year old college student and therefore this is the first election I can be a part of.  Also I am from Boston MA and I enjoy every freedom I have.  I have tried very hard to follow all this stuff.

Ok I do support our troops as I know several people who are over there fighting for... for.... me? Honestly I don't feel much safer now that we have abused the POW we have like that and the Terrorists are now going to one-up us by chopping off peoples heads.

I do hope that not another American life is spent in Iraq but it is war and we are trying to end terrorism by catching Sadam, oh wait we did that, no no by finding weapons of mass destruction, oh wait we haven't found anything in about 2 years, no no by getting Bin Laden, wait he is not in Iraq.  I guess after everything I am not sure why our national guardsmen and women are still there.

But still I hope every soldier comes home to their parents, kids, spouses, etc.

Now onto Bush.  I am sorry I have my peace with God but when the President of the free world talks to God and Jesus about what actions he should take regardless of what his Advisors may say I got to get him out.

There is stuff all over the place about what a moron and dimwit he is.  He has a DUI and so does his VP, you know in most states you cannot become a police officer if you have a DUI yet he became President.  

Also I am not going to get into the whole National Guard thing or the whole free speech issue which is very large for people my age either but if you want some funny bush facts their are tons of sites and even books dedicated to stupidity of that man.

Also his cabinet does some sketchy stuff with this whole 911 cover-up and the abuse in Iraq.

I am neither Democrat or Republican but I am American to the bone and I think the men that created this country would turn over in their graves if they could see what has happened.  In this election and the one before it the people have not had a candidate they like merely one that they dislike less. This has to stop.

~Mas

[fredster]

danny_galaga, while your political ideas are interesting and vaild, it's not the point of this discussion.

If you want to discuss your ideas about these issues, you can post on yahoo groups or usenet.  

The point of this was to show that we care about our troops.

[DrewKaree]

IVE supported your troops!!

thanks!  commie  I'd bet you're a swell person to know, regardless of our differences.  Thank you for defining your support and making it a tangible thing.

For the rest of you wanting to show your support by spouting diatribes OF EITHER VIEW, go crap up another thread like this one here...click to go there and spoil that thread.  You make a mockery of your party's viewpoint by choosing to air your gripes in a thread meant for a specific purpose, which ISN'T to argue how right you are or how wrong "they" are.  

[shmokes]

That and the strange notion that god blesses you but not others

That was hilarious.

I'm late coming to this thread, so most of what I have to say has already been said, but I have a couple of things to add.

Regarding whether or not people should be "crapping" up this thread, WTF?  The thread was started with a political call to action.  It was an extremely naive call to action at that.  Sadly, "support the troops" as used in the first post, was used in it's most common, bumpersticker form.  It was a political call to support, unquestioningly (I think that might be a made up word ), President Bush in a time of war.  Its like saying, "I don't want people to discuss performance or aesthetics or reliability, but EVERYONE SHOULD BUY HONDAS!"



Liberals know that conservatives love their country, but are simply misguided and/or ---uvulas---.  Conservatives commonly believe that liberals' biggest problem is that they  believe that America has major problems that need changed.  You get the retarded, "If you don't like it leave!"  or, "I'll buy your plane ticket -- probably to France!!!" comments.  This is from people who generally know nothing about France except that they were part of A MAJORITY of the members of the United Nations who did not believe war with Iraq was justified.  Does it occur to you that maybe, just maybe France isn't supporting America's war in Iraq (as they supported our war in Afghanistan) because they don't BELIEVE in it.  Are there any possible scenarios besides, "France hates America and the American way of life?"  Is there a possibility that this is evidenced by the FACT that the MAJORITY of the nations in the world agreed with France?  Doesn't the fact  that all of our justifications for going to war have turned out to be a load of crap suggest to you that maybe, JUST MAYBE France may have been on to something when they said that they thought our justifications for war in Iraq were a load of crap?

First, France kicks ass.  France kicked ass before the war, and would have continued to kick ass had they supported the war.  To put it in terms that you can understand, America kicks ass, even though our leader is a jackass.  America kicked ass five years ago when Clinton was our leader.  It will continue to kick ass if our moron president is reelected this November.  

Second, liberals love their country too (and are often also misguided), but they love it in a different way than the conservatives who claim otherwise (note, I didn't say ALL conservatives, but for the rest of this paragraph, when I refer to conservatives I'm talking specifically about the ones who believe that liberals don't love their country).  Ahem....conservatives love their country like a small child loves his parent, or like a sociopathic God kills his children.  That is to say, indescriminately.  Just as children do not ever question anything their parent does, so do conservatives behave this way toward American actions.  Everything America does is good.  Because America is good.  To say otherwise would be criticizing your country which is unpatriotic and proves that you don't love it.  Liberals, on the other hand, love their country in a way that is more, how should I say this.....like the way grownups love eachother.  Because liberals love their country, and afterall live in it, they want it to be really good.  And they want it to be good for everyone.  They aren't embarrassed to say that they are ashamed of little things like the three-fifths clause in the Constitution.  It's not that they don't love the Constitution, it's just that they don't love that part of it and are happy to have the 14th Amendment.  It's kind of the same when they oppose little things like an imperialistic leader that is taking away many of the rights that make us the supposed "land of the free."  We oppose our leader because he offends the core values of our country -- the values that make us love it.  And, in fact, not supporting your leader is one of the luxuries we have that makes our Country great.  

One final note on voting.  Not voting doesn't mean you don't have a right to complain.  I vote in presidential elections, basically "because".  My vote does not count.  I live in Utah.  There is no way, absolutely no way that a non-republican candidate will get an electoral vote out of Utah any time in the next twenty years.  This november, I will vote for John Kerry.  Yet every vote from Utah will be counted for Bush.  Millions of republicans in California will simply not have their votes counted.  Every California vote (a full 10% of all votes) will be counted for Kerry.  There are democrats in this state that will die having never had their vote counted for president, yet have never missed an election.  Our election system sucks.  

...and so on.

[Dartful Dodger]

Our election system sucks.  

If you don't like the way our country does things, move to France.

[shmokes]

 

[shmokes]

Our election system sucks.  

If you don't like the way our country does things, move to France.

The election system used in France and Germany IS in fact my favorite type of election.  Louisiana is the only state in America that uses this type.  It is similar in many ways to the american system, but is set up in such a way that if you are extremely liberal, casting a vote for the most liberal candidate won't effectively cast a vote for the most conservative candidate (as was the case if you voted for Ralph Nader in the 2000 election) or on the flip side, voting for Ross Perot  wouldn't be an effective vote for Bill Clinton.

I'm sure that most people would agree that elections are what largely define a democracy.  The overarching objective of an election is that the outcome reflects the will of the voters.  If Ralph Nader had not been running in the election in 2000, Gore would have won.  Few people would argue that.  Ross Perot took a lot of votes away from Bush senior.  He may have won if Perot wasn't in the race.  Isn't it strange and offensive to the idea of democracy, that the MOST liberal people in America voted G.W. Bush into office, and the MOST conservative people in America may have been responsible for Clinton winning his first election?

America's a stand-up place, but you short-change her by refusing to improve her.  She deserves more than blind faith.

[danny_galaga]

Now I guess we all know that the ancient greeks invented Democracy, right? In modern times weve left out the other half of their system- the Ostrakon. So in days of yore, one would cast ones vote for who they thought should be the king. When a winner was decided, he was king. Possibly for the rest of his life so long as people liked him. End of the election process. When he died there would be another election. What if after a while people don

[namzep]

The Ostrakon was not used purely on kings.  In Athens (often called the cradle of democracy) I believe anyone in elected office could be voted out in such a vote.  I remember one person who was ostracized three times.  Really a fairly good idea, however some controls would be need, due to the fickleness of the people in a democracy.

[danny_galaga]

i should have added that there a few leaders around who might perform better if they lived under the threat of being ostracised, ancient greek style...

[Grasshopper]

That and the strange notion that god blesses you but not others

That was hilarious.

I'm late coming to this thread, so most of what I have to say has already been said, but I have a couple of things to add.

Regarding whether or not people should be "crapping" up this thread, WTF?  The thread was started with a political call to action.  It was an extremely naive call to action at that.  Sadly, "support the troops" as used in the first post, was used in it's most common, bumpersticker form.  It was a political call to support, unquestioningly (I think that might be a made up word ), President Bush in a time of war.  Its like saying, "I don't want people to discuss performance or aesthetics or reliability, but EVERYONE SHOULD BUY HONDAS!"



Liberals know that conservatives love their country, but are simply misguided and/or ---uvulas---.  Conservatives commonly believe that liberals' biggest problem is that they  believe that America has major problems that need changed.  You get the retarded, "If you don't like it leave!"  or, "I'll buy your plane ticket -- probably to France!!!" comments.  This is from people who generally know nothing about France except that they were part of A MAJORITY of the members of the United Nations who did not believe war with Iraq was justified.  Does it occur to you that maybe, just maybe France isn't supporting America's war in Iraq (as they supported our war in Afghanistan) because they don't BELIEVE in it.  Are there any possible scenarios besides, "France hates America and the American way of life?"  Is there a possibility that this is evidenced by the FACT that the MAJORITY of the nations in the world agreed with France?  Doesn't the fact  that all of our justifications for going to war have turned out to be a load of crap suggest to you that maybe, JUST MAYBE France may have been on to something when they said that they thought our justifications for war in Iraq were a load of crap?

First, France kicks ass.  France kicked ass before the war, and would have continued to kick ass had they supported the war.  To put it in terms that you can understand, America kicks ass, even though our leader is a jackass.  America kicked ass five years ago when Clinton was our leader.  It will continue to kick ass if our moron president is reelected this November.  

Second, liberals love their country too (and are often also misguided), but they love it in a different way than the conservatives who claim otherwise (note, I didn't say ALL conservatives, but for the rest of this paragraph, when I refer to conservatives I'm talking specifically about the ones who believe that liberals don't love their country).  Ahem....conservatives love their country like a small child loves his parent, or like a sociopathic God kills his children.  That is to say, indescriminately.  Just as children do not ever question anything their parent does, so do conservatives behave this way toward American actions.  Everything America does is good.  Because America is good.  To say otherwise would be criticizing your country which is unpatriotic and proves that you don't love it.  Liberals, on the other hand, love their country in a way that is more, how should I say this.....like the way grownups love eachother.  Because liberals love their country, and afterall live in it, they want it to be really good.  And they want it to be good for everyone.  They aren't embarrassed to say that they are ashamed of little things like the three-fifths clause in the Constitution.  It's not that they don't love the Constitution, it's just that they don't love that part of it and are happy to have the 14th Amendment.  It's kind of the same when they oppose little things like an imperialistic leader that is taking away many of the rights that make us the supposed "land of the free."  We oppose our leader because he offends the core values of our country -- the values that make us love it.  And, in fact, not supporting your leader is one of the luxuries we have that makes our Country great.  

One final note on voting.  Not voting doesn't mean you don't have a right to complain.  I vote in presidential elections, basically "because".  My vote does not count.  I live in Utah.  There is no way, absolutely no way that a non-republican candidate will get an electoral vote out of Utah any time in the next twenty years.  This november, I will vote for John Kerry.  Yet every vote from Utah will be counted for Bush.  Millions of republicans in California will simply not have their votes counted.  Every California vote (a full 10% of all votes) will be counted for Kerry.  There are democrats in this state that will die having never had their vote counted for president, yet have never missed an election.  Our election system sucks.  

...and so on.

Interesting thread.

shmokes, I don't normally allow myself to get sucked into political threads but I just had to say I totally agree with all of that.

All of the phoney anti-French sentiment whipped up by the British and American governments is basically just a smokescreen to try and divert people's attention away from how isolated those two governments actually are over Iraq.

Notice how both Russia and China escaped serious criticism even though they were also totally against the war. Basically this is because those two countries are still too powerful to mess with.

I can't believe how easily some people are manipulated.

Vive la France!

[mattv]

still too powerful to mess with.

Still? Still? I got bad news for you man - our kids will be learning chinese in schools. Have you ever BEEN to china? It scares the hell out of me. George did the right thing in not pissing them off.

Think about it, there are a BILLION people there, and all of them want the same standard of living that you have, the same cars, the came arcade machines, the same computers, the same oil.

The sad fact is that there just isn't enough to go round, the only way they are going to get it is to eitehr take it or build up their industry to manufacture it. And either way this is going to shift the balance of power for the entire world.

[FractalWalk]

I just read through this thread and I think I'm dumber for the experience.

[mattv]

After repeated exposure to the "everything else" forum I don't really think I could GET any dumber.

I've hit rock bottom and started to dig.

[DrewKaree]

I've hit rock bottom and started to dig.

I like that phrase.  Is it there a patent or copyright on it?  If not, I'd like to borrow it, perhaps enter it into our lexicon...hmph?