BYOAC 2004 Custom Token Design Thread.

[Pixelhugger]

HAHA

[Pixelhugger]

Chris check your PM

[Santoro]

Well, since it's Saint's URL that's on the token, I suppose it's his call...

I have e-mailed Saint.  It is certainly his call.  Chris, Pixelhugger, and myself are all a little nervous about what this might mean to him.

I am going to post a disclaimer of sorts in the pre-order thread and send emails to those that have ordered stating that there is a chance that the design will have to change to the atomic one to protect BYOAC.

If we later decide we have to change the design to the atomic one, I will immediately refund the money for those that request it.

[froggerman]

Pixelhugger, would it be possible to see the BYOAC side with only 1 inner ring between the lettering and the atoms instead of 2?

[Pixelhugger]

I'll be updating the Atomic logo later tonight (Im still at work) and I'll do a 1 ring version.  

[froggerman]

You guys are great!  

[DPsx7]

Still favoring the atomic logo. At least it doesn't have that tooth effect around the edge. It looks too busy like that.

[Chris]

Still favoring the atomic logo. At least it doesn't have that tooth effect around the edge. It looks too busy like that.

Part of that is the ring next to it, which I've removed, and part of it is the bling effect which thickens the smaller details.  It'll look much better at proper size.

[Pixelhugger]

As Chris pointed out to me, it's time to look at the designs at a smaller size. I've been busy revising the atomic logo to enlarge the text since at 1" across the final piece it gets very small.

I will post images WED. I'm experimenting with different ways to preview the actual output. A high resolution color laser print turned out beautifully and it clearly demonstrates the difference between screen output and reality. This coin is going to look fantastic IMHO. I imagine the metal output will be far sharper and even more impressive.

Even at the smaller design size the text is readable on 1" printed output. Without squinting. But it FEELS small. Revising the design for a smaller BYOAC and atomic symbol allows for type that feels right and is easily read.

Please be patient as I put these semi final images together. I have a crazy busy day at work WED.

[Pixelhugger]

These are the latest versions. Still not as small as actual size. This shows the current reduction of the BYOAC logo size to accomodate larger type. Later WED I hope to post images that represent what these will look like at coin size. I am also interested in revising the previous atomic design (post #483) to a single ring version leaving everything else the same. At that point it would be great to get an idea of whether we want to favor a more prominent BYOAC logo that extends nearly edge to edge, with small feeling (but fairly readable type) or whether we want to have more easily read type at the expense of the logo size. At least we're closing in!

[patrickl]

Would an Atomic version with the electrons and their trails at half depth still be an option? I think it would clear up the outer edge of the lettering.

[Santoro]

Would an Atomic version with the electrons and their trails at half depth still be an option? I think it would clear up the outer edge of the lettering.

Pixel, not sure how hard this would be, but it would probably be nice to see.  I agree with Patrick - one of the things that does bother me (only a little) is that the 'orbits' are sort of 'one' with the text outline.   My personal suggestion would be to have the orbits at half-depth, and the electrons left where they are.  I know you are super-busy, so there is no rush here. We can wait.

$0.02

[Santoro]

...... or whether we want to have more easily read type at the expense of the logo size..

I am for this. I am worried about the URL being unreadable by anyone without 20/20 vision.  Truthfully though, whatever flavor of the Atomic logo we come up with will be fine with me.

[Santoro]

For the record.

After conferring with Saint, PixelHugger and Chris, we decided that we had to scrap the Pac-logo.  Namco has been strictly enforcing its trademarks and we did not want to put arcadecontrols.com in harm's way by using what is clearly PacMan on the token.   Think of the worst case scenario - Namco sees the token being used to promote another business and shuts down BYOAC.  Maybe they are angry enough to start hassling other emulation sites, etc.

It unlikely, but I don't want to be responsible if it happens.  Even the less drastic scenarios make it not worth the risk.

So, it was decided that the runner-up would be the official token.  It is still a gorgeous design, IMHO.  

I am sorry that the design process had so many fits and starts.  Later I am going to post some 'lessons learned' for the next brave soul that tries to do something like this.  Maybe next time will be a little smoother.  

It was still fun, despite the bumps along the way.

[KevSteele]

Well, that, for lack of a better word, sucks.

I personally can't see the doomsday scenarios you envision, but it's your call. I have to admit I'm very disappointed, as I really, reallly, really, liked the Pac-logo coin face.

I'm going to have to think about this now.

They say you always know a good compromise - because no one's happy...

Kevin

[Chris]

Santoro, were you able to ask the mint about how many levels we're allowed?  I know we were told our design could have "a few shades of gray", and we'e all assuming that means multiple levels, but what we haven't confirmed is whether or not this is an additional die charge. (If we have confirmed that it's no extra charge, I apologize for missing it.) If you look at a typical token, they are NOT struck very deep at all!  The depth of the design on Pixelhuggers bling images is exaggerated to show detail, so I wouldn't count on multiple levels making that big of a difference.

That said, if we had a medium level, I'd agree that the orbits would look good at the medium heights with the electrons and everything else at full height.

Santoro:  The text now, although not as large on the back, should be quite readable if we get a good strike like the Roger Williams mint.  If it's more like the Hoffman Mint we may have trouble.  I presume Tokens Direct uses the same equipment as Osbourne.... does anyone have a Chuck E. Cheese token with an Osbourne mint mark?  

--Chris

[patrickl]

I saw a multilevel design on Roger Williams mint website. It has a circle in the background which is slightly lower than the logo. I thought that looked nice, but you might be right that if the whole print is shallow it will be hard to even notice.

I'm kinda surprised on the scrapping of the pac token, but I guess that was coming. What would happen if you asked permission? Ok that might be a dumb question ... so stop laughing now ... but still.

[Chris]

Yes, Roger Williams does nice work.  The question is does Tokens Direct put out the same quality of work?

I'm all for it if it doesn't increase die charges.  I also think multiple levels will be lost in the stippling.  The nature of the Atomic design, with its thin curved lines, may keep us from including stippling on that side.  The problem here is that we will NOT get an actual token as a proof, so we may need to err on the side of caution on issues like stippling and levels.

--Chris

[Chris]

These are the latest versions. Still not as small as actual size. This shows the current reduction of the BYOAC logo size to accomodate larger type. Later WED I hope to post images that represent what these will look like at coin size. I am also interested in revising the previous atomic design (post #483) to a single ring version leaving everything else the same. At that point it would be great to get an idea of whether we want to favor a more prominent BYOAC logo that extends nearly edge to edge, with small feeling (but fairly readable type) or whether we want to have more easily read type at the expense of the logo size. At least we're closing in!

Pixel, I like the new design... much cleaner.  I'm assuming your outer ring actually represents the token rim now as opposed to a circle within that rim?

Note that, unlike these images, the rim is actually higher than the rest of the image.  This makes little difference on the front, but a big difference on the back, where the dentils line the rim:



It's worth noting that the token in this image comes from Osbourne Coinage, the parent company of Tokens Direct which is doing our tokens.

[Santoro]

Ok, I spoke to the engraver.  They put me on with him immediately so I didn't have time to conference anyone in.  I think I got answers to the relevant questions.  

In a nutshell,

-They prefer vector art and would appreciate the blinged pictures for reference only.
-Stipple can be represented as textured fill, or color, or whatever because he is going to replace it anyway.  He will refer to the .jpg for guidance
-Text must be converted to curves!!!  
-To show depth, use shades of gray, dark meaning deep, light meaning shallow.

Did I miss anything?

[froggerman]

I was noticing on the Atomic logo that the one orbit, the one running from the 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock has its electrons very close to the BYOAC logo. Would it be a good idea to flip this ring so that the electrons are on the 'high side' away from logo? Just a suggestion.

[BASSOFeeSH]

For the record.

After conferring with Saint, PixelHugger and Chris, we decided that we had to scrap the Pac-logo.  Namco has been strictly enforcing its trademarks and we did not want to put arcadecontrols.com in harm's way by using what is clearly PacMan on the token.   Think of the worst case scenario - Namco sees the token being used to promote another business and shuts down BYOAC.  Maybe they are angry enough to start hassling other emulation sites, etc.

It unlikely, but I don't want to be responsible if it happens.  Even the less drastic scenarios make it not worth the risk.

So, it was decided that the runner-up would be the official token.  It is still a gorgeous design, IMHO.  

I am sorry that the design process had so many fits and starts.  Later I am going to post some 'lessons learned' for the next brave soul that tries to do something like this.  Maybe next time will be a little smoother.  

It was still fun, despite the bumps along the way.

VERY sad to see the pac-logo go cause I thought it looked much better and was far more appropriate.

Still, the current design is nice & my order stands.

[Chris]

I was noticing on the Atomic logo that the one orbit, the one running from the 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock has its electrons very close to the BYOAC logo. Would it be a good idea to flip this ring so that the electrons are on the 'high side' away from logo? Just a suggestion.

Then you lose the symmetry.  And if you flip all the rings to match, you just move the problem to the other side.

[dmsuchy]

Santoro, are you or anyone thinking of having a "groupe buy" of .984 coin mechs?

[Chris]

Now that we'll have the tokens, we need custom coin reject inserts for "INSERT BYOAC TOKEN".  Or maybe "BYOAC TOKENS ONLY".  Or "1 BYOAC TOKEN 1 PLAY".  The bottom text should probably be "PUSH TO REJECT", but since these are custom, maybe we should play around with it...

Santoro, do you want to start three new threads and polls, one for the overall design, one for the top saying, and one for the bottom saying?

 

--Chris (running for cover)

[Stingray]

I voted for the Pac design, but am just as happy with the atom. It was a tough call anyway, they're both such great designs.

dmsuchy, I was just about to ask the same thing. Does anyone have a source for a good buy on .984 mechs if we order in quantity?

-S

[Chris]

Note: If you take the image from post #489 and print it at exactly 200 dpi, the images come out exactly the size of a US quarter.  Our tokens will be slightly larger, but that difference will probably be made up by the token rim.

It is VERY exciting to see them at that size!  I may even cut them out and tape them to a quarter...

[Santoro]

Santoro, are you or anyone thinking of having a "groupe buy" of .984 coin mechs?

I't a great idea but no, I'm mentally exhausted from the tokens.  Anyone else up for it?

[Chris]

Santoro, are you or anyone thinking of having a "groupe buy" of .984 coin mechs?

I't a great idea but no, I'm mentally exhausted from the tokens.  Anyone else up for it?

Those mechs (in plastic) are $14.10 each from Happs.  In quantities of 6 or more they're $12.25 each.  Metal mechs are $20.30 each, or $19.30 each in metal.

http://www.happcontrols.com/wp/item_search.html?item-no=42-3112-00

[Stingray]

Yeah, I was hoping someone might know of a better deal than Happs. I might be interested in organizing a group buy if there's interest and someone can come up with a cheap source.

-S

[Chris]

Yeah, I was hoping someone might know of a better deal than Happs. I might be interested in organizing a group buy if there's interest and someone can come up with a cheap source.

-S

By the time you get them, split them up, repackage them, and re-ship them, you'll end up with the same cost, possibly more.

[Santoro]

Now that we'll have the tokens, we need custom coin reject inserts for "INSERT BYOAC TOKEN".  Or maybe "BYOAC TOKENS ONLY".  Or "1 BYOAC TOKEN 1 PLAY".  The bottom text should probably be "PUSH TO REJECT", but since these are custom, maybe we should play around with it...

Santoro, do you want to start three new threads and polls, one for the overall design, one for the top saying, and one for the bottom saying?

 

--Chris (running for cover)

OK,  But we have to keep polling until everyone agrees on all points!  

fuggetaboutit.


Custom inserts are a good idea though.  hmmmmm

[Chris]

Now that we'll have the tokens, we need custom coin reject inserts for "INSERT BYOAC TOKEN".  Or maybe "BYOAC TOKENS ONLY".  Or "1 BYOAC TOKEN 1 PLAY".  The bottom text should probably be "PUSH TO REJECT", but since these are custom, maybe we should play around with it...

Santoro, do you want to start three new threads and polls, one for the overall design, one for the top saying, and one for the bottom saying?

 

--Chris (running for cover)

OK,  But we have to keep polling until everyone agrees on all points!  

fuggetaboutit.


Custom inserts are a good idea though.  hmmmmm

I have some in vector format, actually... I printed them on a laser, doubled them up, taped them together and slipped 'em in.  So I could make a couple of custom files if anyone is actually gonna change their inserts for this...

(I'll probably regret saying that...   )

[Stingray]

You're probably right. Oh well it was just a thought.

-S

Yeah, I was hoping someone might know of a better deal than Happs. I might be interested in organizing a group buy if there's interest and someone can come up with a cheap source.

-S

By the time you get them, split them up, repackage them, and re-ship them, you'll end up with the same cost, possibly more.

[KevSteele]

Regarding custom inserts:

There's a clear inkjet "decal paper" that works great for inserts. I printed out some custom inserts for my pinball machine (which had none), cut to size and stuck them in the reject buttons (note: it feels like there's no real adhesive on the plastic, more like a "colorforms" kind of plastic that's tacky)

Hammermill "Invent It!" Clear Decals, Item #00064-3

Kevin

[Chris]

Inserts shouldn't be clear; they're usually black on white vinyl to diffuse the light.

[Pixelhugger]

OK here's an image that gives an idea of scale. Excuse the cheesy "Escape From Witch Mountain" quality of the composite. This is sized to just under 1". Scale of the coin to the hand should be exact.


Depending on your screen size and resolution this may or may not appear actual size. But you get an idea.

[Calawala]

Sorry to see that the Pac logo was scrapped, but looking forward to recieving my atomic BYOAC tokens!

[froggerman]

I was noticing on the Atomic logo that the one orbit, the one running from the 2 o'clock to 8 o'clock has its electrons very close to the BYOAC logo. Would it be a good idea to flip this ring so that the electrons are on the 'high side' away from logo? Just a suggestion.

Then you lose the symmetry.  And if you flip all the rings to match, you just move the problem to the other side.

I thought you might say that.  

[Kremmit]

Pixel-

Better change your avatar-  Namco is watching you.