The Web - VirtUal Pinball eXTreme

[yotsuya]

Nice job so far, Ond!

[Ond]

Nice job so far, Ond!

Thanks yotsuya, it is close to being finished but also playable. I guess I broke that rule 

Here's something to fill the space until I get back to this project. A short video showing a bit of game play. Sorry about the blackness at the videos end - clumsy me.

https://youtube.com/shorts/CFzpu-ElO-M?feature=share

[javeryh]

Man, these things look like so much fun. Very nice work. 

Some day...

[Ond]

Man, these things look like so much fun. Very nice work. 

Some day...

They are lots of fun for sure. I've learnt a lot about everything VPIN from initial design, construction, to setting up all the software. In particular I've  managed to get my head around the back glass editing tool. Using that together with Photoshop allows me to customize the back glass files for correct fit, DMD setup etc.  I wasn't happy with the all 3D printed coin plate so I'm re-doing that partly in sheet metal and partly in 3D printed parts. I will post up that in detail as I work through it.  Here's a short video for Malenko since he's doing a The Machine: Bride Of Pin-Bot restore/convert to VPIN.  The artwork is probably what I like most about that game, especially the back glass, looks awesome!

https://youtube.com/shorts/obwmtDzc6F8

[javeryh]

That looks so incredible it's hard to believe it's not a real pinball table.

[Zebidee]

That looks so incredible it's hard to believe it's not a real pinball table.

My thoughts exactly!

Another Ond piece of tech-art. Leaves me feeling both "in awe" and "inadequate". Outstanding.

I want one too but know my limitations   

[Ond]

Just a general update. All projects (including non-arcade related) got put on hold due to moving house and getting setup. My wife and I moved out to the countryside.
The guy who owned the place before us was a keen gardener. In the last few weeks I've been figuring out what kinds of fruit trees I have (Google lens helps). Turns out I have a few types of apple trees, lemon and fig trees as well.

My workshop is very nice after much hard work. Left over from the previous owners renovations, was a whole lot of floating timber floor panels. Naturally these were used to cover my workshop floor! Way nicer than cold concrete I think.
I also gave the space some fresh coats of paint. Here's a pic.  Oh yeah, through the window, another fruit tree, a giant grape vine growing along the verandah edge!

Back to building stuff soon as I can.

[Zebidee]

My workshop is very nice after much hard work. Left over from the previous owners renovations, was a whole lot of floating timber floor panels. Naturally these were used to cover my workshop floor! Way nicer than cold concrete I think.
building stuff soon as I can.

Nice improvement with the timber floor. I can tell you from experience that concrete floors generate concrete dust, and that will get into your lungs as well. I don't know if that can translate into silicosis, but better safe than sorry. After tiling the floor of my lab, I know that I spend a lot less time clearing gunk out of my sinuses.

Urethane coatings over concrete wear off, and anything plastic-y will stick too it. I don't understand exactly what chemical process is going on, but it has even caused the near-indestructible wheels of my Samsonite luggage to disintegrate over about a year!

In the workshop at Questacon (National Science and Technology Centre in Canberra, where I used to work) they used parquetry floors in the workshop. Expensive, but much nicer to walk and work on all day, still very solid, and much friendlier to expensive tools when accidentally dropped.

Love your view 

[Pixelhugger]

Love the build. Jealous of the workshop with a view! And wood floors…  damn.

There is something deeply satisfying (or maybe it’s reassuring) to see the builders you respect still making awesome stuff here after all these years.

 

[Ond]

  Hey my friend, thanks for posting in this build. Of anything arcade related this has been the most the most satisfying project. Plenty pf problem solving and various challenges, but, to see those pinballs smoothly bouncing around with no lag in play, just really really nice.

For those of you new or just don't know, Pixelhugger is one of the great all time builders here at BYOAC. Following his epic build was just the best fun and inspiration. I was lucky enough to be welcomed into his home when I visited LA some years back. Kindred spirit and all that, and both of us dreamers. To sit down and have a meal with him and talk about crazy ideas... best thing ever!

Cheers mate.

[Ond]

Well, while I'm signed in and posting in other threads I should post an update here. I hate updating without much to show, but I do have something of interest to share. Malenko asked me some time back to help out with connections for his Pinscape boards in his vpin project. Long story short, this ended up with me designing a PCB adapter board for the Pinscape board commonly used in virtual pinball machines. The KL25Z Pinscape board is great, it gives you all these features including accelerometer (for nudging), plunger control types etc, etc. The problem is it's just a board with header pins. It can be used with other add-on boards for connectivity but Malenko and I wanted something to connect directly to it with screw terminals for easy wiring.

An adapter board idea motivated me to re-do my own direct soldering solution I was using in my The Web vpin. I wanted a board that allows simple screw terminal connections to every GPIO pin available on the Pinscape KL25Z board.

Here's the board render from my design in KiCad:

and here's the actual board sitting on my workbench:

and with the Pinscape KL25Z attached:

I have briefly tested the assembly using the Pinscape config app. My own control set works fine with it.  At this stage I still have a few spare boards. In the future, I could make up these for other Vpin builders but let's how well it works all wired up first.  Malenko's is on it's way to him 

[jeremymtc]

Very cool, Ond!

The only issue with wider adoption of that design is that the KL25z was recently revised/cost reduced and the current versions don't have an accelerometer. There are some efforts underway (Pinscape Pico) to port the functionality to a Pi-based sbc (RP2040 iirc) to work around the lack of suitable KL25z's. I believe that those require an add-on for accelerometer input too though.

[Ond]

Very cool, Ond!

The only issue with wider adoption of that design is that the KL25z was recently revised/cost reduced and the current versions don't have an accelerometer. There are some efforts underway (Pinscape Pico) to port the functionality to a Pi-based sbc (RP2040 iirc) to work around the lack of suitable KL25z's. I believe that those require an add-on for accelerometer input too though.

That's interesting!  Hmm I feel tempted by the challenge.  So, the MEM accelerometer chips are available as well as the cheaper KL25Zs.  I think just for the hell of it I'm going to buy both, solder the chip on and load up the Pinscape firmware. The cost of my original KL25Z from Pinscape was still more than the cost of those parts. I'm ok these days with surface mount stuff, any other reasons my idea won't work? Anyone have thoughts on that?

[jeremymtc]

mjr posted this note on his page:

"Warning: NXP recently shipped a new batch of KL25Z boards that's not compatible with the Pinscape software. To run Pinscape, you need an original KL25Z, manufactured before 2021 or so, and those have become scarce over the past few years. I recommend looking at the new Pinscape Pico project as an alternative if you don't already have a "classic" KL25Z on hand."

I think he's been active on the forum at VPF, so it may be worth asking him directly what the incompatibility concerns. I assume that there's something more than just the lack of accelerometer at play, but I only know about this stuff kind of tangentially.

[Ond]

Ah, thanks for the info jeremymtc, well hopefully my board is a win-win for Malenko and I anyway.
 

[Ond]

Its Friday! yeah maybe not where you are, but it is here. Along with re-doing the connections and general wiring to the Pinscape KL25Z board I've been motivated to clean up and improve a few other things as well. When I started this project I knew very little about virtual pinball and building virtual pinball machines. Having a largely playable machine has some advantages. In my case I see all the things that bug me or just general opportunities for improvement.  Take the back-box for instance. My original design was based on 'The Web' back-glass graphics. The single back-glass 4:3 monitor was to combine the graphics and DMD on the one screen. I didn't really think about all the other cool tables I could play, or the amazing artwork on some of the back-glasses for these tables.  I found myself constantly modifying back-glass artwork to fit my design. 

One day i had a dim light bulb moment that went something like this - "If I added a third monitor for a DMD display and rebuilt my backbox so that I use ALL of that 4:3 monitor display for just artwork I won't have to butcher back-glass files any more!"  For a supposedly clever dude I can be very slow on the uptake sometimes.

Like many new to Vpins, I added all kinds of tables to my machine.  Some of the newer fantasy tables (tables that are not replicating real pinball machines) impressed me at first with their intricate complex gameplay, graphics and sounds. After some time I removed a lot of these though. I now favor older tables or replica tables that are really well designed.  The arcade building journey seems to always ultimately become a purists exercise. I'm fine with that. Any vpin builders have their favourite tables?  Tell me about them and why you like them.

Here's some pics of back-glass artwork on my vpin using a 3-monitor setup allowing the complete artwork:

I'll have to build a new back-box with fittings for the two monitors as well as speakers etc. I'll post that when I get to it.

[Zebidee]

One day i had a dim light bulb moment that went something like this - "If I added a third monitor for a DMD display and rebuilt my backbox so that I use ALL of that 4:3 monitor display for just artwork I won't have to butcher back-glass files any more!"  For a supposedly clever dude I can be very slow on the uptake sometimes.

Heh, just means that you really are human!

What size third monitor are you looking for? Something long & wide I guess? Can you use an LCD display designed for advertising?

Every one those back-glass artworks remind me somewhat of "Ex Machina" the movie. And Metropolis.

[Ond]

Yes, I have a thing for those robot ladies 

If you look closely at the back-glass pics I posted you'll see I already have the third monitor. Its this one:

GeeekPi 7 Inch LCD Screen for Raspberry Pi, 1024x600 IPS  a non touch screen, small display.

Here's some more clarifying pics see...

firstly flooded with light so that monitor can really be seen. I'm just testing it at the moment and configuring Visual Pinball and PinballX so that the new 3 monitor setup works properly.

In normal low lighting that looks more like this:

That image of the Mech-spider is actually a video. Final cabinet reveal will feature all display art (video or static).  I designed the spider, which is a 2D feature of the original 'The Web' pinball artwork for multiple purposes including animation and 3D printing. Here is the master:

3D printed it can be posed as it has moveable joints.  I'm tempted to print that fellow and perch him on the top of the Back-box 

Here's a closer look at the 3rd Monitor displaying the DMD for Attack From Mars in normal lighting:

The original back-box front frame will have to be re-done to fit the new speaker/monitor setup. I'm fine with that. There's a few things I'd like to improve in the new version.

Overall I'm very pleased with the direction this project is taking. There's just so much to learn about the emulator and front-end software setup, especially for optimal game play and virtual pinball experience.

[Zebidee]

Oh right, I should look closer. Guess I was so besotted by the robot ladies, barely noticed it there in the dark.

[PL1]

Any vpin builders have their favourite tables?

Haven't done a build, but here are some tables to consider:
* Medieval Madness (Williams)
* Lord of the Rings (Stern)
* Doctor Who (Bally)
- Scared Stiff (Bally) - Has a spider spinner
- Addams Family (Midway)
- Creature from the Black Lagoon (Bally)
- Elvira and the Party Monsters (Bally)
- Evel Knievel (Bally)
- Indiana Jones (Williams)
- Jurassic Park (Data East)

In the non-realistic but fun category, Liteuser made Young Frankenstein and Spaceballs tables.   


Scott

[Ond]

Any vpin builders have their favourite tables?

Haven't done a build, but here are some tables to consider:
* Medieval Madness (Williams)
* Lord of the Rings (Stern)
* Doctor Who (Bally)
- Scared Stiff (Bally) - Has a spider spinner
- Addams Family (Midway)
- Creature from the Black Lagoon (Bally)
- Elvira and the Party Monsters (Bally)
- Evel Knievel (Bally)
- Indiana Jones (Williams)
- Jurassic Park (Data East)

In the non-realistic but fun category, Liteuser made Young Frankenstein and Spaceballs tables.   


Scott

Thanks Scott, I was interested in why you might like any of these tables. I've played quite a few of those on my vpin and some real versions of those tables as well e.g. Addams Family and Lord of the Rings. I'll check out the others. One of my favs at the moment is Godzilla (Sega). I like it for the easy gameplay, multiball and pacing, also the music/sound is fun. I've since removed Addams Family, LOTR, Medieval Madness and Indiana Jones from my machine although I may re-enable that last one. I have Jurassic Park - The Lost World which is also good.  Other tables I tried and removed include Daredevil (love the TV show) and Metalllica amongst others. 

I think there has to be something which just clicks with you when you play, some fun repetition of mechanics and sound maybe loops or combinations. The hook is when it's meditative and relaxing. Another thing to be really clear on is Vpins are video game machines, they might 'look' realistic but they are simply not (imo) trying to be a replacement for the real thing.  The other day I had a chance to play a real Attack From Mars table and it was just so much better. That said I'm enjoying the hell out of my 'The Web' machine.  OK, enough posting from me for now. Next time will be build stuff. 

[PL1]

I was interested in why you might like any of these tables.

It's a combination of theme, original table/rules design, gameplay, recreation accuracy, and/or emulation quality.

I think there has to be something which just clicks with you when you play, some fun repetition of mechanics and sound maybe loops or combinations.

Yes.  That connection is subjective.  That's why I didn't bother mentioning specific reasons for liking those tables.

If there's a table you like in real life but not in VP, you might want to see if there's a better version by a different designer.
- When I was building my collection of VP7/8/9 tables, there were certain designers like JPSalas that were consistently great.
- No idea who is making the best table recreations in VPX nowadays.   


Scott

[Ond]

The minor re-build of this cabinet is underway. All being well I should have a few regular updates over the coming days. In re-wiring the buttons and devices I'm also updating or improving the control set while the opportunity is there.

-New plunger button
-Added magna save buttons
-Added real Tilt bob
-Re-work of backbox
-New PS for amplifier (more powerful)

Update pics in no particular order:

I found this awesome red button. It has a really nice action, still light, but more tactile than the arcade button I was using. I gutted and modified a clear Seimitsu button to adapt the Big Red Button. I designed and 3D printed a tight fitting clear collar with an outside diam. to fit the Seimitsu collar. I don't have room in this cab for a realistic plunger but this is a nice compromise. I think VPINS are fine with just a plunger button, I'm kind of used to it now anyway. The clear sleeve and button were glued into the Seimitsu collar with clear Araldite. The nice feature is that the assembly can be removed just like any arcade button and can be LED lit as well.

I resisted adding magna save buttons originally but there are a few tables that use them including of course Black Knight. Bah, making holes in the cab after expensive artwork is in place  I don't recommend it!

I'm redesigning the back-box right now, next up some pics of that process.

[PL1]

I resisted adding magna save buttons originally but there are a few tables that use them including of course Black Knight. Bah, making holes in the cab after expensive artwork is in place  I don't recommend it!

Adding MagnaSave buttons also allows you to easily include tables with Upper Flippers.

Since there are no tables that use both MagnaSave and Upper Flippers, you can wire the Right MagnaSave and Right Upper Flipper inputs in parallel to one button and the Left MagnaSave and Left Upper Flipper inputs in parallel to another button because tables ignore button presses that don't apply.   


Scott

[Ond]

Thanks Scott, that's actually pretty interesting to me. Tables with upper flippers! Can you give me examples of some? I want to check them our. 

*edit, you just mean tables with upper flippers in general that are scripted to allow separate control right? 

[Zebidee]

I found this awesome red button.

Dang, I do love a big red button!

[PL1]

Thanks Scott, that's actually pretty interesting to me. Tables with upper flippers! Can you give me examples of some? I want to check them our. 

*edit, you just mean tables with upper flippers in general that are scripted to allow separate control right? 

Yes, I'm referring to tables that have separate controls for lower and upper flippers.
- Family Guy has Stewie's mini-playfield
- Nip-It has the "ballygator" (upper right)
- Defender uses upper flippers to trigger 'smart bomb' and left lane kickback 'reverse' functions

There's a fairly extensive list over at VPForums.
https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=30377

Malenko mentioned a while back that there were a number of Williams tables from the 90s that used stacked leaf switches so you can trigger the lower flipper with a partial press and lower+upper flippers with a full press.

PBJ showed that Alien Poker has that stacked leaf switch control configuration.

Pushing the right flipper button in from 1% to about 60% depth.



And then pushing it further.

The VP recreations I've seen of those tables have the upper and lower flippers tied to a single keystroke so you lose the ability to cradle a ball on the lower flipper during multiball while working the upper flipper.

Destruk mentions over on VPForums that you can do separate upper/lower flipper controls in VP if you add the keycode(s) and modify the script for the table.
https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=21460
- Malenko mentioned that "The Getaway: High Speed II" is a table where you would really want that functionality.

The only tables with upper flippers that you wouldn't want to mod the script for would be the 7 or 8 with MagnaSave.


Scott

[Ond]

Very useful, thanks Scott!  I've bookmarked those links. It's funny I'm chatting with Malenko regularly at the moment, we are both working on our Vpins right now, as I mentioned earlier. I have two of the tables you mentioned Defender and Alien Poker. Alien Poker is one of my favs. I think I'd rather play two separate buttons than one stacked one for dual flippers though. I'm looking forward to setting those tables up as you've described, with the Magna save buttons. I'm fine with modding the scripts for VPX tables, I've already done a bit of that.

Dang, I do love a big red button!

It cost $18 

[PL1]

I have two of the tables you mentioned Defender and Alien Poker. Alien Poker is one of my favs. I think I'd rather play two separate buttons than one stacked one for dual flippers though. I'm looking forward to setting those tables up as you've described, with the Magna save buttons. I'm fine with modding the scripts for VPX tables, I've already done a bit of that.

Yeah, the stacked leaf switch setup is really specialized so no surprise that many VP table script authors tie upper and lower flippers together as a default unless there are obvious special features like MagnaSave or the 'smart bomb' and 'reverse' inputs on the Defender table.


Scott

[jeremymtc]

Any vpin builders have their favourite tables?  Tell me about them and why you like them.

Some recommendations:

Black Knight 2K - lots of highly technical shots especially on upper playfield, great playfield art and audio which channels kind of a Flash Gordon movie vibe.

Congo - table has great flow with various ramp and scoop shots, and some fun video mode minigames played on the DMD. The theme is kind of annoying and the property isn't a favorite, but the table is fun enough that none of that matters.

Guns 'n Roses - Not even a big GNR fan, but like above, table has excellent flow with really satisfying ramp loops and orbit shots, and a great 5-ball multiball setup. This one has been a party favorite.

Metallica - Again, not really a big fan of the group but table has good flow and fun toys. Ramp shot loops are difficult but very satisfying when you get them right. Some fun interactivity on DMD and selectable music.

Star Trek 25th Anniversary (Data East) - pretty simple in terms of gameplay, but yet again it's a table that rewards chained loop shots combined with precision shots into scoops to advance the play mode. Jame's Doohan's voice guides you through the game.

Star Trek: Next Generation - Great audio, great video presentation on DMD, great playfield toys, tons of game modes, combination of multiple easy and difficult loop and scoop shots. Really fun game with lots going on.

Viper: Night Drivin (Bigus version) - Really simple table in terms of playfield layout and gameplay, but the really neat and fun bit is the blacklight mode with glowing balls during the bonkers multiball mode.

World Cup Soccer - Flow flow flow. Pretty much what I like about many of the tables mentioned - really satisfying loops and orbits, precision scoop and saucer shots, fun toys (especially the saucer that kicks the ball into the goal), and a super fun audio presentation.

I've got about 160 games loaded on my vpin right now, and will be culling at least half of them. The funny thing is that I really only ever expected to run a dozen or two of the classics and keep the collection highly curated, but once dropped into the ecosystem I've been trying out new-to-me games like mad and have enjoyed quite a lot of them.

[Ond]

Thanks jeremymtc! That's the sort of overview I was asking about. Metallica, World Cup Soccer and Black Knight 2K I also have. Of those, I've mainly played World Cup Soccer and the flow is really pleasing. There is a fairly recent update of World Cup Soccer, it may be worth checking to see if you're running that. I will definitely check out the rest of your list.

It's easy for the number of tables to get large. I think a regular cull of tables once you've tried them out is a good thing. I'm trying to keep to about 40 tables or less. They have to have the kinds of things you've mentioned to stay on my machine.

Malenko gave me a useful link for referencing tables with links to files, check it out: 

https://virtualpinballspreadsheet.github.io/

 

Any vpin builders have their favourite tables?  Tell me about them and why you like them.

Some recommendations:

Black Knight 2K - lots of highly technical shots especially on upper playfield, great playfield art and audio which channels kind of a Flash Gordon movie vibe.

Congo - table has great flow with various ramp and scoop shots, and some fun video mode minigames played on the DMD. The theme is kind of annoying and the property isn't a favorite, but the table is fun enough that none of that matters.

Guns 'n Roses - Not even a big GNR fan, but like above, table has excellent flow with really satisfying ramp loops and orbit shots, and a great 5-ball multiball setup. This one has been a party favorite.

Metallica - Again, not really a big fan of the group but table has good flow and fun toys. Ramp shot loops are difficult but very satisfying when you get them right. Some fun interactivity on DMD and selectable music.

Star Trek 25th Anniversary (Data East) - pretty simple in terms of gameplay, but yet again it's a table that rewards chained loop shots combined with precision shots into scoops to advance the play mode. Jame's Doohan's voice guides you through the game.

Star Trek: Next Generation - Great audio, great video presentation on DMD, great playfield toys, tons of game modes, combination of multiple easy and difficult loop and scoop shots. Really fun game with lots going on.

Viper: Night Drivin (Bigus version) - Really simple table in terms of playfield layout and gameplay, but the really neat and fun bit is the blacklight mode with glowing balls during the bonkers multiball mode.

World Cup Soccer - Flow flow flow. Pretty much what I like about many of the tables mentioned - really satisfying loops and orbits, precision scoop and saucer shots, fun toys (especially the saucer that kicks the ball into the goal), and a super fun audio presentation.

I've got about 160 games loaded on my vpin right now, and will be culling at least half of them. The funny thing is that I really only ever expected to run a dozen or two of the classics and keep the collection highly curated, but once dropped into the ecosystem I've been trying out new-to-me games like mad and have enjoyed quite a lot of them.