The Web - VirtUal Pinball eXTreme

[Ond]

In the mid 90s a pinball game for PC (and other platforms) was released called Pro Pinball The Web. It was DOS based to start with. I remember the game play and realism was really good compared to other PC pinball games at the time. I revisited it many times over the years including more recently. There were other tables released by Cunning Developments including TimeShock! and others, but this was my favourite in the series. I remember thinking "I wish this could be played on a Vpin in a proper playfield aspect"...

Over on the VPForums I noticed that a member mfuegemann had created a VPX table based closely on the original. On current hardware it plays beautifully (and accurately) especially at 4K.  It was all the excuse I needed to start this project. A 3/4 scale Vpin themed around this game!  I will also be working on my other main project - Pac Man Legion in the coming weeks.

Whilst I began construction on the cabinet I also started to work on the artwork.  The only available artwork for this game is some low res stuff for the back glass and a little for the playfield.

I'm using two monitors, a crisp 4K LG for the main display and a high quality NEC 4:3 unit for the back glass. The backglass screen has a res of 1600 x 1200 and I was determined to get artwork to suit.

To kick of the project I'll share the results of that effort 

The original back glass artwork generally looks like this:

Closer up on a 1600 x 1200 screen it looks like this;

My reworking, drawn from scratch ended up like this:

Which close up has more satisfying fidelity:

It looks really nice, bright and clear on the back glass monitor. Plenty of build pics, details and the usual gab you've come to expect from me on the way 

[Ond]

The build so far.

Firstly I must acknowledge other inspirations for building a Vpin.

Malenko's vpin builds got me interested in the first place. You can check out a version of that Here. It's a cute little vpin build fully packed with hardware and looks great finished!

My cabinet is a bit bigger, somewhere around 3/4 scale I guess. That leaves a bit more room for hardware. I'm still undecided about fitting legs to it or having it sit on a table top.. 

I read up on a bunch of build techniques and stuff and then pretty much threw all that out of the window and started making it up as I go along.  Most build information is about full size Vpins and often references real pinball machine fabrication methods. That's all good an all but I have my own criteria for success..so...

Still at raw MDF and Marine Ply build stage. I love pics of other peoples raw timber stage projects so here's a few:

The back glass box has to fold down as per the real thing, so I made my own custom brackets which pivot in bushings fitted into the cabinet.

Fit of the playfield and back glass de-cased monitors:

A look inside at the first fitting of some hardware including Subwoofer amp, main amp, main amp power supply and Vesa mount plate:

View under the vesa mount plate to the  6.5" subwoofer driver:

The main speakers and tweeter arrangement. These fit neatly just behind the back glass monitor with a 3/4 inch or so gap beneath the monitor to allow sound out. (You can see that in a previous pic up above):

Subby from underneath, Its recessed right into the thick timber housing in the cabinet. I may or may not cover it with a grill.

This will be running fairly new PC hardware including:

12th gen Intel i7 CPU
DDR 5 supporting motherboard, 32 GB DDR 5 RAM
RTX 3060 Ti GPU

I'm still undecided about the front end software, happy to take recommendations. Apart from the main theme table it will run perhaps another 8 or so tables.

[Malenko]

You can check out a version of that Here. It's a cute little vpin build fully packed with hardware and looks great finished!

Gingerballs is elated to be mentioned!


I'm sure whatever you make will be a ton better but I'm glad I inspired some people to give it  go. Your pinball is going to have better specs than my main rig (a lowly 11th gen i5-11400F).
The one thing I wished I did different was make the monitor come up like a regular playfield , was kinda hoping yours would so I could steal your method for my next one

[Zebidee]

Great to see more awesome builds coming from you Ond.

If you haven't done so already, be sure to check out Laythe's shape-shifter vpin. Another great project that pays homage to Gingerballs.

Where do you find an NEC 4:3 1600x1200 monitor, and are they expensive?

[Ond]

The one thing I wished I did different was make the monitor come up like a regular playfield , was kinda hoping yours would so I could steal your method for my next one

I'll document my setup with plenty of detail, hopefully it will be useful to you. I remember watching your build come together and thinking "damn I want one like that".

Great to see more awesome builds coming from you Ond.

If you haven't done so already, be sure to check out Laythe's shape-shifter vpin. Another great project that pays homage to Gingerballs.

Where do you find an NEC 4:3 1600x1200 monitor, and are they expensive?

Thanks Zeb, I followed Laythe's Shape-Shifter build at the time in pure AWE. That build is a Tier -1 project of which there are only a few. Laythe is on my A-List of builders, which is a real short list.

Yeah that monitor...I bought it years ago when I actually worked for NEC Australia. We needed a new fridge at the time and that monitor cost more!  I think it predates IPS technology, but the full range viewing angles are astounding, right out to 178º.  Of course pics are the proof, so I'll post them when I get to that stage. Chance of locating one now..very low I'd think. Retail price at the time was about $850, with my employee discount I think I paid about $650.

[javeryh]

Great to see you building again Ond!

What are the overall dimensions of the body? A vPin is on my bucket list but I am really short on space so whatever I build will need to be small although at full height.  3/4 size seems adequate to me.

I've always had Froggerman's woodrail minipin project in the back of my head as something I'd like to strive for in the future... too bad the pics to his thread are gone.

[Ond]

Great to see you building again Ond!

What are the overall dimensions of the body? A vPin is on my bucket list but I am really short on space so whatever I build will need to be small although at full height.  3/4 size seems adequate to me.

I've always had Froggerman's woodrail minipin project in the back of my head as something I'd like to strive for in the future... too bad the pics to his thread are gone.

Hey mate!  It's nice to have at least a solid day each week to do nothing but project builds. That hasn't been possible in a long time for me, up until recently. This vpin is approximately 31 x 16 x 29 inches (29 is the height).
Now you've got me curios about Froggerman's vpin.. are there any references to look at or similar. Is it based on a real cabinet?

[PL1]

In the mid 90s a pinball game for PC (and other platforms) was released called Pro Pinball The Web. It was DOS based to start with. I remember the game play and realism was really good compared to other PC pinball games at the time.

Thanks for mentioning this game.

Just got the DOS version of it working in MAME on an emulated 486 system.

I can see why you like it.   


Scott

[javeryh]

Froggerman's thread is HERE but the pics are gone. He hasn't been here in almost a decade either.  The cabinet looked like a really old pinball cabinet with wooden legs and a compact size. I can't remember if it was based on an actual cabinet with similar dimensions but it looked a lot like this:



It had similar retro artwork and was a very cool blending of an old time design with modern components.  It also just looked like a lot of fun to play.

[Ond]

Thanks for mentioning this game.

Just got the DOS version of it working in MAME on an emulated 486 system.

I can see why you like it.   


Scott

Hey Scott, great that you got The Web up and running. There's various ways to run the game, Dosbox Mame etc, there are also some Windows exe files you can run with the original files to access it in Windows. That method generally allows the best sound and resolution options. I'm not a gamer but I played the hell out of that game and actually started getting reasonably good at multiple loops and skill shots. It was designed to be played in perspective view on a 4:3 screen Here's a pic of the original playfield for reference for everyone else.

javeryh, I can see the appeal of those lovely old wooden pinball machines. All that timber and great vintage artwork, damn!

I'm going to to try and post my project progress updates in real-time just like the good old days.

Today I worked on the back box, monitor fitting, glass fitting etc. I have no plan to follow, so there's a fair bit of reworking and adjustments. I actually like building that way, it's more relaxing.

I had to re-cut the timber brace that holds the back box monitor in. It was sitting too far forward in the back box. I tore out some crappy MDF internal bracing that I'd done in the back box and replaced with stronger hardwood pieces. I'm figuring out how to secure the glass in the back box and fit the speaker panel. I want really clean simple lines when its all finished. Here's how that ended up today:

There's not enough room in the back box (if I keep the dimensions accurate to a real pinball machine) for placing speakers behind directly behind grills. To get a very convincing speaker grill look I'm using the 3D printed parts and I'm going to make up a panel which sits in front of the monitor. The actual speakers sitting in behind and below the monitor will transmit sound through the available grill apertures just fine. I'll make use of the DMD display on the back glass monitor in a cut-out in the speaker panel.

[Ond]

Built around this alumium frame:

A back box insert which holds the back box glass in place:

[Ond]

Test fitting into the back box of the glass retaining insert and speaker panel. This allows me to exactly position the panel against the back glass image:

After cutting out the DMD window, I've glued the speaker panel and panel edge into its correct position:

I'm getting near to gap and hole patching, surface treatment and priming of the back box. Once that's done I will move on to the main playfield cabinet.

[Ond]

Got to get it smooth:

First primer applied on the back box, one of three - rough coat:

Going to 3D print some raised letters to spell 'The Web'  to go just above the DMD cut-out.

[javeryh]

Looking good. Is that venting on the back or a crazy amount of admin buttons?

[Ond]

Looking good. Is that venting on the back or a crazy amount of admin buttons?

Heh, it does look a bit like some weird button panel but no, your first guess is right. The monitor going in the back box gets gets almost hot with long use. Fan blown air will move up the back of the monitor and vent at those holes to keep it cool. I'll put mesh or something on the inside surface or even inset and flush on the back of the box.

Since I had to work in the store today (it's like a Radio Shack) I put the 3D printer to good use, printing some raised lettering and button inserts for the Vpin:

I have tomorrow to work on personal projects so lets see what I can get done...

[Nephasth]

I'm going to have to get me one of them fancy printers someday...

[thatpurplestuff]

The build is looking great so far (as per typical for an Ond build)!  The speaker grills are an awesome touch! 

[Ond]

I'm going to have to get me one of them fancy printers someday...

You and me both! For now I can print simple stuff at work.

The build is looking great so far (as per typical for an Ond build)!  The speaker grills are an awesome touch! 

I'm hoping the finished result looks better than just a back glass image on it's own. 

I'm still learning how to design for 3D printing, those parts started off in 3D studio MAX:

I convert exported OBJ files online to STL files and then open STLs in Cura for slicing and saving out the gcode file for printing:

I spent part of the day today fixing my compressor after the regulator broke, I went out, bought, and fitted a new one. I spray painted just the back box insert after filling small gaps and imperfections - primer coat 2 of 3! The 3D printed letters will get painted first before gluing them down, but I've positioned them here just to see how they look.

[Zebidee]

Since I had to work in the store today (it's like a Radio Shack) I put the 3D printer to good use,

Ooooo... sounds like you work in Candyland...

[Ond]

Since I had to work in the store today (it's like a Radio Shack) I put the 3D printer to good use,

Ooooo... sounds like you work in Candyland...

Heh, yeah it started out like that. I mean, it's not my main job, but it is fun working where I've been a customer for years. I tell my co-workers I'm there because I need beer money. Some customers are morons, but at least I can buy parts I need at about half price! 

[Ond]

Tomorrow is projects day woohoo!    It's going to get fairly hot .. around 99 degrees, I'll work at it in the morning when its cooler.

I have a question for anyone willing to give it some thought. I want to have pinball nudging as a feature, at least left and right nudge. I don't want to use buttons for this. I have some ideas for how to make this happen but I'm also interested in suggestions. The most important thing is very low lag i.e. pretty much zero lag for the nudge action to register in-game. Mechanical tilt is a feature used in Vpins so why not physical nudge? Forgive me if this is already 'a thing' I'm a Vpin newbie after all.

[Zebidee]

I have a question for anyone willing to give it some thought. I want to have pinball nudging as a feature, at least left and right nudge.

What about the pelvic thrust? Many players swear it works for them. I know it works for me

[Ond]

I have a question for anyone willing to give it some thought. I want to have pinball nudging as a feature, at least left and right nudge.

What about the pelvic thrust? Many players swear it works for them. I know it works for me

If only that were all that's necessary! 

[PL1]

I want to have pinball nudging as a feature, at least left and right nudge. I don't want to use buttons for this. I have some ideas for how to make this happen but I'm also interested in suggestions. The most important thing is very low lag i.e. pretty much zero lag for the nudge action to register in-game. Mechanical tilt is a feature used in Vpins so why not physical nudge?

One trick that I remember reading about is using a pinball tilt plumb bob.
- Connect encoder ground to the top bracket.
- Design and 3d print a nonconductive frame to hold the soon-to-be pieces of the lower bracket ring in their original position.  You may need 2 mounting screws per piece so they don't twist/shift.
- Drill and tap the screw holes in the lower bracket before cutting the lower bracket in 3 pieces for right, left, and up nudge.  Not sure what angles the cuts need to be at for best nudging results. Wire the pieces to the related encoder inputs.




Scott

[Ond]

Thanks Scott. This hadn't occurred to me. It's a clever use of the tilt mechanism. My gut tells me there will still be latency issues though.  This does however give me some great ideas for the actual tilt bob! It's always good to reach out for suggestions I think.

I have an idea for the nudge mechanism but I'll reserve it until I've tested it out.

Three straight crazy hot days ...fark!  Well I 3D printed these fittings for my spidey speaker grills. They turned out ok I think, a bit of a loose fit, I may have to print again for a better match:

[Zebidee]

Ironically, those speaker grill covers will help to keep the spiders out!

[Nephasth]

I have a question for anyone willing to give it some thought. I want to have pinball nudging as a feature, at least left and right nudge. I don't want to use buttons for this. I have some ideas for how to make this happen but I'm also interested in suggestions. The most important thing is very low lag i.e. pretty much zero lag for the nudge action to register in-game. Mechanical tilt is a feature used in Vpins so why not physical nudge? Forgive me if this is already 'a thing' I'm a Vpin newbie after all.

How about a floating lockbar with switches behind the lip of the lockbar for your directional nudging? Left, right, and push front to back.

[Ond]

I have a question for anyone willing to give it some thought. I want to have pinball nudging as a feature, at least left and right nudge. I don't want to use buttons for this. I have some ideas for how to make this happen but I'm also interested in suggestions. The most important thing is very low lag i.e. pretty much zero lag for the nudge action to register in-game. Mechanical tilt is a feature used in Vpins so why not physical nudge? Forgive me if this is already 'a thing' I'm a Vpin newbie after all.

How about a floating lockbar with switches behind the lip of the lockbar for your directional nudging? Left, right, and push front to back.

This...IS GOOD! Damn, I like it. This will be my go to if my own idea doesn't pan out. Thank you Nephasth. 

[Zebidee]

@Nephasth This is a good idea - the best nudges are from the lockbar anyway, so it makes intuitive sense.

How to implement this practically is a harder question. Nudging the lockbar is an art. You probably don't want to feel like you are banging a spring.

Over to the thinktank (Ond).

[Lexiq]

I haven't used one myself, but I've seen these recommended for nudging on Vpins:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003546042061.html

It would probably be possible to use it for tilt detection too.

[Ond]

@Nephasth This is a good idea - the best nudges are from the lockbar anyway, so it makes intuitive sense.

How to implement this practically is a harder question. Nudging the lockbar is an art. You probably don't want to feel like you are banging a spring.

Over to the thinktank (Ond).

Yes, I do like this idea, I think really tiny movements that trigger switches would be the go.  Done properly you wouldn't really feel like the lock bar was 'floating' at all.

I haven't used one myself, but I've seen these recommended for nudging on Vpins:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003546042061.html

It would probably be possible to use it for tilt detection too.

Thanks Lexiq. using an accelerometer to detect nudges is something I've looked into. There's some good documentation for Pinscape build info Here
It is an option I'm considering, but I'm more in favour of very sensitive (and simple) on/off switch setups pending some rigorous testing! 

I have a good idea of my proposed solution in my head and will share in due course. 

[pbj]

I have a question for anyone willing to give it some thought. I want to have pinball nudging as a feature, at least left and right nudge. I don't want to use buttons for this. I have some ideas for how to make this happen but I'm also interested in suggestions. The most important thing is very low lag i.e. pretty much zero lag for the nudge action to register in-game. Mechanical tilt is a feature used in Vpins so why not physical nudge? Forgive me if this is already 'a thing' I'm a Vpin newbie after all.

How about a floating lockbar with switches behind the lip of the lockbar for your directional nudging? Left, right, and push front to back.

 

Do you play pinball with your pinkies or something?

[Zebidee]

Nanoswitches built in behind the lockbar to detect your nudges, whether from pinkie, palm, pelvis or whatever.

I'm not convinced it is practical or satisfactory, even if possible. If anyone can do it, Ond can.

Some kind of motion detection, laser, gyro, level, plum bob etc. to detect actual movement/vibration would likely feel more natural. Not simple, though might ultimately be easier to implement.

Digital gyroscope? Just a quick search, there are some pretty affordable kit options out there. Gyro function done in a chip. Not sure how great they are, but is a start.

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/gyroscope/all
https://temperosystems.com.au/products/gy-50-l3g4200d-3-axis-gyroscope-angular-velocity-module/

This is a GY-50 L3G4200D 3-Axis Gyroscope Angular Velocity Module low-power three-axis angular rate digital gyroscope sensor. The L3G4200D has a full scale of ±250/±500/±2000 DPS and is capable of measuring rates with a user-selectable bandwidth. These work great in gaming and virtual reality input devices, GPS navigation systems and robotics.

The SMD soldering work is already done, 1 inch square and they cost a few dollars.

[jeremymtc]

Nice suggestion, Zebidee. I used to use GY50 boards for rate control in RC helicopters. They have very fine sensitivity and work great.

[Ond]

Final primer coat on back box insert panel:

Checking the fit of the panel into the back box before painting, looks ok:

First paint coat on the back box insert panel (dark blue):

Painting of 3D printed parts for back box - spiders, spider webs and speaker grill inserts:

After painting is finished on these pieces they'll be assembled into the completed back box.

[javeryh]

Keep it going Ond. I wanna see this thing finished in all it's glory!

[Zebidee]

This build needs a sticky thread   

[Ond]

Keep it going Ond. I wanna see this thing finished in all it's glory!

Thanks for the interest!  Keen fellows like you keep me more motivated. I'm mindful you may be building one of these yourself at some point. 

This build needs a sticky thread   

I'd be happy to have the thread stickied, eventually, but not this early in the project 

More fine detail painting today.  To allow me to spray into various angles on these little parts I mount them up on some sticks. A dab of hot glue is easily removed later:

For this project I'm using various painting methods. The Tamiya model makers spray cans are high quality. I only need a little of each color. Spray quality is not quite as good as my gun, paint comes out a bit too heavy and fast but that's ok.  For really fine details I use my little airbrush:

These 3D printed letters have come up nicely after some sanding with 600-1200 (wet) grit and then painting:

I decided to hand paint some added light blue to these webs to control highlights and color better:

I use a combination of painters masking tape (low adhesion) and air-brushers fine tape (expensive!) to mask off items to be painted. The back box insert panel has been painted with a lighter blue around the speaker holes.  I'm taking my color cues from the original back box artwork:

Peeling away the air-brushers tape, nice clean lines!:

Once the paint that I applied today drys, I can put all the various parts I've been working on together!:

[Ond]

Back box panel insert completed:

Little spidey speaker grill:

Working on the rest of the back box today.

[javeryh]

Looks really nice. I wish I had access to a 3D printer but if I bought one I know I'd only use it a couple of times a year, if that.  It looks like it provides options for things that would be too difficult to make by hand. Opens up a lot of possibilities.

[Ond]

Looks really nice. I wish I had access to a 3D printer but if I bought one I know I'd only use it a couple of times a year, if that.  It looks like it provides options for things that would be too difficult to make by hand. Opens up a lot of possibilities.

Thanks, for a long time I did without a 3D printer in this hobby. I guess I have made a few things by hand which I could have 3D printed more easily. I regard them as a tool, not as a hobby in and of themselves with one caveat, you need to have 3D design skills to truly use them as as a tool. I’ve got a long list of projects (in other craft hobby areas) that include 3D printed elements. I may move into resin printing eventually, maybe.

So before looking at the latest build progress, I just wanted to check my design reference for work so far completed. My reference is always the original back-glass artwork from the PC game:

So far, I’ve reproduced the drawn speaker grill area in 3D and I'm using a cut-out window to reveal the DMD on screen. In theory I should be able to play other tables and adapt the back-glass art work to the physical layout. They all have similar speaker/DMD/back glass artwork configurations. I may need to tweak some back-glass files for games that don’t quite fit:

I painted the rest of the back box today, final primer coat and one coat only (in multiple passes) of black:

Second coat of primer on the main cabinet, one to go:

I’m using these 3D printed inserts in all the button holes on the cabinet:

The reason for these is my choice of buttons.  They are these cheap illuminated buttons sold in the shop I work in.  I have boxes full of unused quality Japanese (Seimitsu and Sanwa) as well as Happ buttons I could use, but I really wanted to use these illuminated buttons in this case. They have this raised edge which is meant to fit into a plastic ring which sits between the cabinet panel and the button. I hated the ring thingies, so threw I them away  :

The buttons fit into the inserts perfectly:

Next post will be of the completed back-box with monitor installed and lit!

[Ond]

I designed and printed these grill covers for the rear vent holes on the back-box:

Here you can see the angled aluminum glass retainers which stop the back glass from moving:

Back-box assembly completed:

Visual Pinball running 'The Web' re-worked back-glass artwork that I did. The DMD window sits pretty well in the cutout I think:

I mentioned earlier the excellent viewing angle performance this monitor has:

A closer view, monitor is sharp!:

That's it for the Back-Box for now. It only needs artwork applied, brackets, retaining clips and speakers installed.
In next steps I'll be painting the main cabinet and fabricating a (scaled down) coin door panel.

[Malenko]

Amazing work as always. I almost wanna build a new ginger now.

[Zebidee]

This build needs a sticky thread   

I'd be happy to have the thread stickied, eventually, but not this early in the project 

There are other kinds of sticky threads! Pun intended, sorry I couldn't resist.

You could seriously freak people out with a subtly-placed lifelike prop 

[Ond]

Amazing work as always. I almost wanna build a new ginger now.

Thanks for the nod in my project. I enjoyed following all of your Vpin builds!

There are other kinds of sticky threads! Pun intended, sorry I couldn't resist.

You could seriously freak people out with a subtly-placed lifelike prop 

Hah!  I'm that distracted by too many things I didn't pick up on the pun the first time. Bravo Zeb. 

[pbj]

Amazing work as always. I almost wanna build a new ginger now.

Gings gonna gong.

[Ond]

I'm gonna turn this:

Into this:

[Ond]

3D print is rough, but will be smoothed and surface finished, next, mount this into aluminum sheet:

[jmike]

Been gone for a while but glad to see some of the legends are still around.
Looking great as always Ond. 

[PL1]

3D print is rough, but will be smoothed and surface finished, next, mount this into aluminum sheet:

Looks like a solid start.   

Is this one of your designs or did you find it on a site like Thingiverse?


Scott

[Ond]

Been gone for a while but glad to see some of the legends are still around.
Looking great as always Ond. 

Great to hear from you jmike! I'm glad as well to see other byoac long timers still checking in. I'm putting everything I've learned in the hobby into this project as well as new things. My project keeps me posting here, but there's some other cool builds going on as well that keep me interested. 

Looks like a solid start.   

Is this one of your designs or did you find it on a site like Thingiverse?


Scott

Hey Scott, the coin plate is my own design. I wanted a custom 3/4 size panel to go with the Vpin. It will feature a very simple coin mech I'll print up as well. I've designed the slot to only accept tokens (or token sized coins). When it's done it should have a nice authentic look ... I hope.

When I get to a certain build point I'll take some time out to do the artwork for the cabinet. I've had a few goes at it but not happy with the results so far  .

Here's where I got to today with the panel. Two coats of primer and it's looking much smoother:

[Ond]

A nudge post update. No Pics.    Well, it's better than nothing right?  I have in fact been spending time grappling with this coin plate. That last pic of primer smoothing things out looked promising, but...some sort of chemical reaction with the plastic and the primer resulted in bubbles forming along some edges. The dried result looked ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, so, in the bin it went. I've been working my way through filament on my 3D printer trying different things and binning a fair bit of plastic. It's all good, I'm learning. I ordered a new smooth build plate for my printer. I'm printing things flipped over and taking advantage of the better print quality on those surfaces coming off the new plate.

My coin mech design has also been completed and I'm figuring out how to print some of the parts to allow for overhangs, voids etc. The mech makes use of two photo interrupters. If a coin or token less than the the correct size is inserted only one photo interrupter is triggered and the coin/token is dumped into the return courtesy of a solenoid flip. It has to be very compact because the coin plate is quite small. Pics to come of all these things...

[Ond]

Coin mech prototype is done and working. I was briefly tempted to just build a dummy coin mech which simply passed anything through the coin slot as a credit. The idea didn't sit well with me so ...

Parts temporarily hot glued into place while I test the mech. Near the top of the chute you can see the two photo interrupters. If both are triggered the small hatch flips up and the coin/token is registered as a credit and falls into the collection box. If the Vpin is switched off OR if the wrong sized coin/token is inserted and only one photo interrupt is triggered, the coin/token falls into the collection hatch to be recovered.

I'm using a tiny solenoid to flip the hatch connected to an Arduino. The mech works OK when I manually trigger the solenoid with 12V. The stroke of the solenoid is very short and I'm right at the edge of where it will effectively retract when operated. Probably a bit too close, so I'll very slightly modify the hatch for better performance. 3D printing allows me to make really small changes with accuracy and test the mech until it performs properly.

Once I'm happy with the mech I'll remove the hot glue spot joins and glue it up properly using Araldite glue.

Next step is to write up the code for the Arduino and test that with the mech. I'm using an Arduino Nano for this. The Nano will probably be used to run some other mechanical hardware in the Vpin as well.

[Ond]

This project is nearing completion. I'm at the last stages of finishing and fitting so resurrecting the thread in readiness...


Here's a sneak peek at the side artwork I did based on the backglass original artwork. It's already printed by GameonGrafix. I'm very impressed with the quality of the work coming from these guys. The original artwork I did was around 15000px wide so detail is clean and sharp.

Inspired by PL1's suggestion to make a Tilt Bob (thanks) I went ahead and made this:

Pinscape nudge accelerometer using the KL25Z is all done.
Software is about 90% complete, just have to finish up artwork for PinabllX frontend
Controls, solenoids, Coin Plate and sound system all done

more pics to come and final finish video. Stay tuned 

[Xiaou2]

For the Tilt Bob,  you should use a thin Bolt / threaded rod.  That way, you can Adjust the height of the Weight... like a real Tilt Bob.
This is to adjust the Sensitivity of the Bob... to make it easier / harder to activate.

The Bob itself, I believe is a brass plum bob shaped thing, with internal threads  (been a while since Ive looked at one).

As for the Buttons... you really should replaced them with actual Pinball Buttons.  Real Pinball buttons use
Leaf Switches, and have a much longer Travel.  They will feel better, and react better... as well as will be far
less fatiguing over long play sessions.   Ohh... and they will be much quieter... compared to the Clicky micros.

I skimmed the photos quickly... so I didnt see how many buttons you installed.   If you want to play games
like Black Knight 2000... you need an additional button to activate Magna-Save.  Dungeons and Dragons, uses
4 buttons (2 flippers, and 2 Bridge-Activators.. to keep the ball from Draining. I love that gameplay feature).

[Xiaou2]

 If you are not intending to purchase a Sensor to track the table...

 I came up with a Digital solution, some time ago:

 You will need to make 3 of them.  One each for the left and right sides of the cabinet... mounted close to the buttons.
And the final one, mounted in the Front of the cabinet.

 You will need to experiment with the Mass... to get the right Balance.  It should not be easy to Set off... but it also should
not be that Hard to set it off.   You want to Slap the cabinets sides, with decent force, to be able to get the mass to move,
which will activate the leaf-switch.  The foam is just there to protect the Cabinet from the mass hitting the sides, when it
returns.

 Remember that the Tilt Bob, does not sense any particular direction.  Its mass designed to start swinging, if the player
moves the cabinet too much.   Tapping the cabinet quickly with a bump, often wont cause the mass to move much, if at
all.  However, if you slide the cabinet like +1",  that thing will be swinging wildly.  Also.. if you bump too many times in
quick succession... you might also get it to Trigger a tilt.   And of course, if you bumps have too much power in total..
it may also trigger the Tilt.    Of course, this also depends on the Sensitivity level of the Bob itself (which is adjustable).

 The Tilt Bob is shaped like a Cone... so at its lowest setting... it can move around a lot, without hitting the Ring.
However, when you raise the Bob... the cone diameter expands... making it much easier for the bob to hit the sides.

 Anyway... My photo here, is for the Bump detection... not for Tilt detection.

[Xiaou2]

I thought Id add one more thing... About Nudging and Tilting

 Im not sure if pinball tables are emulating "Nudging" correctly.

 Also, I think some people might not understand the physics, of what is happening.

 If a pinball were to roll right down the center of the table... and you tried to nudge it left or right...
Nothing would happen.  The ball would not change vector at all.

 The is because the mass of the ball, and its Momentum... far out-power the minimal tapping forces.

 In order for you to get a Nudge to work on a REAL machine... is that you have to Tap the table at
the same time when the Ball hits something thats connected to the Table.  Something Static, like
a Bumper Post,  Slingshot,  Flipper,  etc.

 You can test this... by balancing the ball on the top side edge of a Pop bumper... and then tapping the
front of the table... to make the ball move upwards on the playfield.

 Then, you can roll the ball down the field... and tap the table left or right... to see if you can alter
its Vector.

 The only way to alter the Vector of a Rolling pinball,  is if you SLIDE the entire table about an inch or two.
Not a "Tap" but where the legs actually are moved to a different spot.

That kind of table slide, is a "trick-save", that often results in a Tilt.   Its not considered a "Nudge", when
you slide the entire table.  The Nudge is just a Vibration, that doesnt move the legs/table.


The nudges are used for altering the Vector of the ball.   Often the ball is about 2 bounces away from Draining
down the Out-Lane.  First, it will hit the slingshots edge... and then it will bounce into the Out-lane.  To prevent
this... you can Bump the table Upwards from the front... and cause the Ball to Arc Higher... which might cause the
ball to end up in the In-lane, or another safer spot... where it wont Drain.

The effects of Nudges are minimal, on Fast moving modern Pinball machines... due to the speed of the ball, and
a decent Table Slope.

The OLDER wood-rail pinball machines... have a much milder Rake (table angle).. and so the ball moves much
slower.  This makes the ball more "Floaty", and even the smallest of Nudges, can drastically alter the balls
Vector.   This is why the old wood-rail pinball machines, have their Flippers spaced much further apart.
The wider the gap between the flippers... the more Nudging skills that you needed to avoid a Drain.

Also, the Older machines had more targets that you were trying to intentionally Nudge Into.

[Ond]

You need to read more carefully, anyway, I will update the tilt bob with an adjustable threaded weight. That's a fair enough call. I did my research before making that and do understand how tilt sensors work. As for nudging I'm already using the KL25Z Pinscape unit. In latest virtual pinball software this provides movement data for distance/acceleration etc in any direction. In testing the ball moves very accurately depending on nudge force and direction.  Buttons...nup they are done. I'm using silent micros in the flipper buttons and click micro switches in the others. I want them to light up, as mentioned in the thread, I deliberately chose cheaper clear plastic buttons for this reason.  I'm doing the last few things now DOF set-up and final touches.

[jeremymtc]

Looking forward to updates, Ond! I really dig how detail-oriented all of your projects are, and the forethought you put into them.

Those are qualities that I do not possess, so I have to live vicariously 

[Ond]

Looking forward to updates, Ond! I really dig how detail-oriented all of your projects are, and the forethought you put into them.

Those are qualities that I do not possess, so I have to live vicariously 

Thanks mate, yes it's about time for that update!  I've been working at fine tuning controls, flipper buttons mainly, just adjusting spring strength and solenoid actions.
I still have the lock-down bar, main screen bezel, DOF lighting and admin control buttons (sitting inside coin plate) to finish. Also a final spray and touch up on the back-box, decal application on back-box and cosmetic marks touch-up here and there.

I was going to run just with the solenoid mechanical sounds for the flippers but have decided they sound better complimented by in-game flipper sounds in Virtual Pinball.  They provide some nice tactile feedback into the cabinet but sound a bit thin on their own.

This Vpin is a 3/4 size machine, not quite a mini Vpin and not full size either. It's fitted with real pinball machine legs which look slightly chunky but cute as well (I think).
This also means it will need to go on a small podium/platform to raise it to a comfortable playing height.

Here's a look at it anyway 

The cabinet, just after it was sprayed with primer.

Cabinet after painting satin black. Legs, cooling fans, fuse, PS, on/off switch etc fitted.

Whats inside?  Explanatory diagram...

Here's the main monitor (4K LG IPS) sitting in place.

Cabinet glass in place and powered up. Yes it's playable.  There is a PinballX front-end and other tables to play of course.

I'm not entirely satisfied with the 3D printed spiders on the back-box (the speaker grills).  They are OK at distance viewing but on close inspection well...
I'm going to get them resin printed in white so they are nice and clean and sharp and replace the current ones.

 

[Xiaou2]

Since Heat Rises...  your Vent OUT  (bottom of cabinet)   should be the vent IN.

Use a fan to push the cooler lower-level air (nearest the floor), into the bottom of the Cabinet...
and use the rear fans, to Push the rising HOT air... OUT of the rear of the cabinet.

Even if you didnt have fans on the rear... the hotter air would generally rise itself out of the nearest
top/higher vent holes.  That said... Fans helping to push the hot air out, does help to improve the heat
reduction.

Most Arcades do the same.  A fan near the very bottom of the cabinet,  that pushes cooler air into the bottom
of the cabinet... and a fan near the top of the cabinet.. to push the rising Hot air out of the top of
the cabinet.

Some cabinets only have lower fans... and just use Venting Plates near the top of the cabinet... slightly above
the monitor area.

[Ond]

Handling of heat in the cabinet is just fine. Not shown in the pics just posted is the flow through vents at the rear/top of the back-box.  In fact the PSU fan vents directly out of that vent.  Passive/still  air that's warm does indeed rise. Fan forced air however follows whatever path there is to take, like in central heating ducts and vents that are ceiling mounted.  I put that vent in because I could feel  a little  warm air flowing out of the coin door cutout.  Once the coin door goes in, the cabinet with glass fitted is more or less a duct. Those rear fans blow cool air directly into the GPU and CPU thermal blocks where its needed most. Air can then flow out the through the back-box vent AND the vent near the coin door. Everything else gets only slightly warm, amps, other power supplies etc.

I've run the cabinet for a few continuous hours monitoring temperatures where possible. PC parts are running way below the kinds of temperatures gaming PCs run at. I've over spec'd the GPU/CPU for this build to just run warm, never hot.

Maybe you should give me a little more credit for design awareness eh?  That's my last lengthy reply to your design suggestions.

[Xiaou2]

Im just a dude, trying to give some helpful advice.

 Maybe I could have kissed your butt, and made some nice comments about your construction... and you
may have responded better?

 Or Maybe you just take offense to advice, period.

 Either way... The problem isnt me.   Just offering some advice.

 Cheers

[Ond]

A quote (not mine) seems the best reply. “ Was at a training once where the facilitator said "Unsolicited advice is
criticism. Always."
Half the room audibly gasped/ objected. The other half shouted a chorus of yes/
thank you/ amen. She offered no quarter to the "just being
helpful" brigade. It was glorious.”

Anybody else can explain what this means to Xiaou2…anyone? Butt kissing is not called for. If you have ideas learn how to suggest them. Seriously, just basic respect for a fellow long term BYOACer, I might surprise you with my response.

[jeremymtc]

Anybody else can explain what this means to Xiaou2…anyone?

"Hey Ond, I noticed that the one of the wire grilles for your fans is rotated 90 degrees relative to the other. It's a small detail, just not sure if you noticed it. Otherwise everything is looking great so far."

As opposed to "That incorrectly installed grille ruins the whole appearance of the machine. It's a very basic thing but it really calls your abilities into question."

Seriously though, cab looks to be coming along very nicely. I've only got exciter speakers for haptics and a much more basic audio system in mine - will be interested in seeing what you think about your solenoid setup. What sort of voltage are they driven by, and are they controlled by the KL25? How's the latency for feedback?

[Ond]

["Hey Ond, I noticed that the one of the wire grilles for your fans is rotated 90 degrees relative to the other. It's a small detail, just not sure if you noticed it. Otherwise everything is looking great so far."

As opposed to "That incorrectly installed grille ruins the whole appearance of the machine. It's a very basic thing but it really calls your abilities into question."

Yes,  Inject a little emotional intelligence in there, a bit of encouragement gets coupled with suggestions/advice and people will listen. My work role involves exercising clinical judgment (not medical clinical, there are other forms) and giving advice to clients.  Without going into boring detail, this can be exhausting, I need to be very patient with some clients to say the least. Coming here is my stress relief, hopefully to chat about the hobby, compare notes, that kind of thing. Praise is nice, encouragement is better, I mean who understands us outside of the hobby anyway - not many. Collaborative problem solving has been one of the things I've enjoyed most.  If someone on the forum makes it feel like work, I get grumpy, impatient even. Guilty as charged. I can take constructive criticism, have many times, sometimes resulting in 180 degree changes of mind in design or artwork, or whatever.  At the same time though, I do my research, I'm thorough, I read everything I can, watch YouTube videos and yes, ask for advice when needed. Putting the vinyl onto this cab was a bit traumatic. I didn't have clue how to make sure  that I got it right. If I messed it up, I would have wasted $400 AU dollars on artwork!  I watched a bunch of videos, finally I found my guy, an expert. I learned what I had to and didn't mess it up thank f***k    I'm always willing to learn and be instructed, but hey, you can assume I at least know something about what I'm doing, maybe even quite a lot. If that weren't so, I wouldn't be able able to build a project like this in the first place!

[
Seriously though, cab looks to be coming along very nicely. I've only got exciter speakers for haptics and a much more basic audio system in mine - will be interested in seeing what you think about your solenoid setup. What sort of voltage are they driven by, and are they controlled by the KL25? How's the latency for feedback?

Getting the sound system right took quite some time. I had these small full range 3" speakers coupled with some cheapy car tweeters. the setup sounded really dull and lacked top end sparkle. I changed out the car tweeters for some nice little Dayton (4 ohm) tweeters and put in my own (simple) crossovers.  My original subwoofer amp died during testing and I had to pull everything apart again and put in the current bridged car amp.   It's not Hi-Fi but, sounds cleaner and more detailed now especially with the subby dialed up to the right amount.. The 12V solenoids I'm using are rather weak. With the extra brass weight I added to each they click and provide some reasonable vibration into the cabinet. I looked at using DOF to drive these but opted for an extra micro-switch on each flipper button. I adjusted these for sync with the actual button micros so no latency at all.  Pics to come!

[jeremymtc]

The 12V solenoids I'm using are rather weak. With the extra brass weight I added to each they click and provide some reasonable vibration into the cabinet. I looked at using DOF to drive these but opted for an extra micro-switch on each flipper button. I adjusted these for sync with the actual button micros so no latency at all.

Ahah! I had wondered about the "extra" stuff I was seeing around the flipper micros. I had briefly considered using some small 5V shaker motors wired similarly before I went to the audio-based exciters, so what you've done there completely makes sense. Very cool that you were able to "tune" the solenoid actuation to suit; latency is one of the complaints I'd run across relating to solenoids and was one of the reasons I didn't pursue the shakers. 

I may have missed it upthread, but have you already figured out the lockdown bar arrangement?

[Zebidee]

Anybody else can explain what this means to Xiaou2…anyone? Butt kissing is not called for. If you have ideas learn how to suggest them. Seriously, just basic respect for a fellow long term BYOACer, I might surprise you with my response.

Explaining things to people like this is a waste of time. He won't really 'listen', and will likely troll you excessively on any further details and/or write loooooong essays about tangential stuff nobody asked or cares about. Waste of time.

He wants us to be wowed    by his amazing knowledge about whatever. Look, I was momentarily wowed. his input on the threaded plumb-bob was valuable, I liked that and was impressed. He could have stopped there, but then goes on and on, self-indulgently lecturing about this and that, making you feel patronised (treated like a child), or just plain bored, and it is a massive turn-off.

It is all about ego, the 'right' or 'wrong' of it is irrelevant. This fact is highlighted when, after Ond questions the need for all this, he responds with dumb crap about "butt kissing", "Maybe you just take offense to advice, period", then illogically claiming "The problem isnt me." [sic]. Hahahahaha 

Put simply, it upsets the thread's vibe, and I start just speed-reading over Steve's rambling posts, hoping for the vibe to come back. 

My suggestion, for him and others, including myself, would be: try to write shorter posts that directly address the topic at hand. Keep your ego out of it and don't ramble. If you've got a lot more tangential stuff to say, consider starting another thread so you can explore in detail, then link to it. Or just mention that you know a lot more about XYZ if anyone wants to go there.

If they don't love every part of your ideas, FORGET IT and MOVE ON. They'll take what they need.

Finally, if you don't have anything worth saying, then say nothing. Shorter posts are better, and No post is better than a dumb post. With that I'm out   

[Ond]

Hey Zebidee!  Yes, maybe I just could have said "your patronizing tone is a turn-off". Nevertheless, I will be using the suggested improvement to the Tilt-Bob. An adjustable one is better. This build is so busy with more pressing things, I'll get to it eventually. Amen to the short posts. Walls of text are hard to get through even if they are full of useful nuggets. We are a picture oriented forum! Pics or it didn't happen and all that.

I love the end of my working week, my last bit of admin is done and I can look forward to blissing out in the workshop for a few days. Things to do:

• Add some timer relays to the two amplifiers power lines, I need to address bad hum in the speakers on power up. The hum disappears once the OS boots but its still distracting. I know it's some kind of internal grounding issue in the Motherboards audio design.

• Get started on the Lock-down bar. This is going to be a composite of materials including aluminum strip, 3D printed parts and fiberglass. A customized lock-down bar to suit the size of the cabinet is needed. If I could I'd just buy a real one, but there are none I know of that will fit. It's all good. I like the fabrication challenge.

• Final coat satin black to the back-box and apply vinyl artwork. I improved the rear venting and air flow and this all needs to be painted the same color.

• Fabricate the main play field bezel including some inset LED lighting.

Here are some pics of the modified flipper buttons with extra micro-switch fitted to activate solenoids. These tiny micro-switches are virtually silent and very light in action.  Even so, I adjusted the spring strengths in each button for a very light action. The 3D printed housing lets me tune the switch on point to match the button. I needed to put these right against me ear, listen for the click in each and adjust until they match. Then I hot glued the switch to retain its position in the housing. No electronics, just mechanical, no lag.

Here's a pic of the PSU for Motherboard.  It vents out into the back-box.  This PSU has an intelligent fan system.  The fan only occasionally spins as needed for cooling of the PSU. You can also see the crossovers either side for the two-way speakers system (+ subby).

[Zebidee]

You can also see the crossovers either side for the two-way speakers system (+ subby).

Ahhhh... I was looking at those yellow capacitors and coils and wondering where I'd seen them before - on your speaker build thread!

[Ond]

You can also see the crossovers either side for the two-way speakers system (+ subby).

Ahhhh... I was looking at those yellow capacitors and coils and wondering where I'd seen them before - on your speaker build thread!

They've made a real difference in the audio quality. I generally don't design my own, but made an exception here. I was lucky, the sound from the system after installing new crossovers is very pleasing.
They are 2nd order Linkwitz_Riley based, just from an online calculator. I didn't bother with a PCB, just point to point connected the coils and caps on a 3D printed template.
I'm looking forward to getting back to speaker building but I'm fighting the urge to chop and change when I'm so close to finishing this.

I had a good go at my to-do list, as always, everything takes twice as long as I imagine it will 

I've re-painted the back-box, applied decal artwork and put it all back together. This was after cutting larger vent holes and fitting new aluminum grills. I didn't like the look of the 3D printed grills I fitted originally. A bit too chunky.

Here's some pics. And since I've been talking about speakers and such, a closer look at how they fit into the cramped space!

Back-box with updated vent grills and a fresh coat of paint.

Here's one of the new tweeters  (Dayton ND20FB-4 Rear-Mount 3/4" Neodymium Dome Tweeter 4 Ohm). These replaced the cheap car tweeters I had fitted originally.  They have great sound, nice and crisp and more detailed.
I made some adapters for them so they can be mounted into the back-box.

Here's the two speakers mounted in place. The small full range speakers are Dayton ND65-4 2.5".  I deliberately split higher frequencies away from these with the crossovers.
For a little cheap speaker they sound surprisingly good. I'd use them again for other projects for sure.  Link - https://www.wagneronline.com.au/2-half-inch-aluminium-cone-full-range-driver/speaker-drivers/audio-speakers-pa/993829/fl/
The off-axis arrangement is not ideal, but overall quite satisfactory for this project.

Here's a look into the bottom of the back-box. Access to connectors is OK. The 21.5" NEC monitor gets warm. Air can move freely, both through and behind the monitor and then out the vent.

The finished back-box ready for artwork.

Using my newly learned decal application skills (thank you yootubes) the artwork went on fine.

To round out the speaker overview here's a look at the sub-woofer driver and the underbelly of the cab. Also visible is the volume control.
I opted to control the Windows system audio rather than just the Vpin application audio as this is the recommended approach.
The subby volume has been turned down so it doesn't overpower the other speakers and behave like a beast-boombox!

[Malenko]

Just ignore that pickle kisser.  I started my full sized vpin, I hope it's 1/3rd as good as this.

[Ond]

…I started my full sized vpin, I hope it's 1/3rd as good as this.

Best news I’ve had with my morning coffee in a long while. Honestly, if there hadn’t been Malenko vpin projects, there wouldn’t have been an Ond one.

Please post your project!  More soon from me on this build.

[Malenko]

No build thread, its a rescue. Saved this cab from the dump, previous owner got a new cab cut and transferred everything over.





Nothing too fancy, regular 1080p TV for the playfield, an ASUS 28" for the backglass, and I have a pinscape for the controls but no one sells the wires that plug into it so now I gotta publicly beg this Aussie I know to make some wires.....

[pbj]

Nice rape dungeon.