Getting Crazy for weeks ! Emudriver CRT issue.

[lixir]

Hey Guys, usually I try to avoid any questions about a problem since there's always someone that had the same issue before me so it's usually a matter of time before I find something similar to my problem.
And I found someone who got pretty much the same prob but I still have no way to output 15khz.

I have an Optiplex 3020 i5 / Win 10 / HD 7450 low profile (DVI I / Display Port). I followed every possible tutorial but all the time I get to the EDID enable part, my LCD goes out of sync then comes back to standard res, and on my CRT I get double/triping flickering image that is unreadable, that means, it doesn't output 15khz right ?

My setup for CRT is :DVI / VGA cable connected to UMSA adapter, then SCART/SCART.
I Also tried with a special VGA/SCART but same results.

GPU calamity drivers install just fine.

I have my lcd plugged into the Display Port.

When I enable EDID, I choose to enable VGA 0, I also have DIGITAL DP and Digital DVI in my scroll bar, but since all tutorials says to choose that one, I do.

Any Ideas ?

Thanks.

[buttersoft]

A double or triple image is higher scan rates and not 15kHz, yes. But that does specifically mean it's stable and visible. You still don't want to leave it that way for more than a second or two. Being unreadable and flickering might be something else.

Hmmm, i had a DELL optiplex with a R5 250 which i think it bascially the same card. And crt_emudriver couldn't find it, which i presume was a BIOS issue.

Starting from the start. You have test mode enabled, and the watermark appears in the lower right corner? Next, what version of crt_emudriver are you using and where did you download it? And when you click on the crt_emudriver setup program, does it correctly identify the Radeon card? (might say something like Radeon HD 7400 series, but that's good) Then, when you install crt_emudriver, you say it seems to work. If you load the driver setup again at that point, what does it say? Does it still identify the card? Is the button to install the driver now greyed out, and the only option is to uninstall?

[lixir]

Hi and thanks for your reply.
I'm in test mode indeed (lower right corner says it) also when I install crt emudrivers, everything goes right, it goes from generic windows GPU to ATI HD 7000+ CRT drivers.
The only option left is uninstall.

I use catalyst 12.6, 2.0 beta 15 and I downloaded it here :
https://forum.hfsplay.fr/emu-news-f18/archive-crt-emudriver-2-0-beta-15-download-thread-t18398.html

Also I may have hurt my CRT at that point because I stayed couple minutes with the double/triple image while attempting to solve the issue by changing resolution in Arcade OSD to see if any res would work.
I don't know but in fact the crt screen doesn't seem to be burned or damaged .

Anyway thanks for trying out to help me, I'm a bit lost so I'm ready for a step by step, I may have skipped something crucial.

[sittingduck]

Why 12.6 instead of 16.2.1 from the official site?: https://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295
Maybe give that a try.

[buttersoft]

Why 12.6 instead of 16.2.1 from the official site?: https://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295
Maybe give that a try.

doing the above is a good idea.

And no, you probably haven't hurt your CRT. Do you have a console or video box you could plug in to test it, just in case?

[lixir]

Thanks, I've tried a fresh install to avoid any possible issues, and installed emudrivers 16.2.1, everything runs fine, but still no 15khz.
Still a splitted image with vertical sweep.
I also tried to test different res with arcade OSD on second screen (CRT) with no success, it's likeeverything I try ends up with same results, splitted image in 3/4 pieces with vertical sweep.
Maybe it's something due to a MB/bios/Gpu/ drive  or else, because I doubt Emudriver isn't doing what it's suppose to do.

[buttersoft]

Does your LCD have a VGA input? Can you use a converter, maybe? I was thinking you could try to set the display you're working on to be on the same output as the CRT is going to be.

Can you take a screenshot showing the below from VMM (stolen from Calamity of course) (And an image from the monitor settings tab too, please)

[lixir]

I have 2 outputs : DisplayPort and DVI-I.
I have my lcd plugged into DisplayP and my CRT is connected with DVI-I/VGA cable to UMSA converter and from UMSA it's SCART/SCART to the CRT.
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZGCpXVZH67HOLh442HRhbypUn3NzHBa99FV

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZrCpXVZTiS4FQo5whb8aQfTa4I7BHDFGQ70

I tried to use digital DVI also with no results (black screen) but Display port one I can't I have no cables or adapter to make DiplayPort / VGA conversion.


PS: how can I display a picture in my message directly without having a link instead please ?

[PL1]

PS: how can I display a picture in my message directly without having a link instead please ?

Put the image URL in IMG tags. ( icon)
- You can also specify the image size in pixels by adding "width=512" or "height=384" like these examples. (click on the photos to see them original size)

Code: [Select]

[img width=512]https://api.pcloud.com/getpubthumb?code=XZGCpXVZH67HOLh442HRhbypUn3NzHBa99FV&linkpassword=undefined&size=1360x1020&crop=0&type=auto[/img]


Code: [Select]

[img height=384]https://api.pcloud.com/getpubthumb?code=XZrCpXVZTiS4FQo5whb8aQfTa4I7BHDFGQ70&linkpassword=undefined&size=1360x1020&crop=0&type=auto[/img]


---------------------
Better yet, upload your photos into the latest "NOT A PROJECT" thread stickied at the top of the Project Announcements sub-forum.
- Right-click on the uploaded photo, "Copy Image Link", and paste the URL inside IMG tags. (resize as desired)

Code: [Select]

[img width=150]http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=164992.0;attach=390277;image[/img]




Scott

[buttersoft]

Hmm, have you actually extended the Windows desktop? So when you go to the regular windows display settings right now, you should see two separate monitors called 1 and 2, not the combined 1/2 single screen. (If you hadn't extended the desktop before, do it now, then take a look at the res on the CRT. If it's 640x480, try plugging in the CRT.)

(EDIT: actually, if you are only just now extending the desktop, turning EDID emulation off and back on again might be something to try, if the res looks wrong on the CRT)

Assuming that's not the problem, let's try this. Under the Monitor Settings tab in VMM, select Generic_15 rather than Arcade_15. Then, in the Video Card tab, disable an re-enable EDID emulation for the Analog_0-VGA port. Then, on that same tab, under Device near the top, select the Generic_15 monitor, not the LCD one (the LCD is currently set, called PLB2403WS). That will set the target for VMM modelines to be the analog output. Then install modelines as provided by the user_modes.ini file, as per the guide.

Restart the PC, and open ArcadeOSD on your LCD. Hit the number "2" key, hit "1", hit "2" again. If that worked, you should now see the ArcadeOSD screen on the LCD again, but the line near the top should have changed so ArcadeOSD is no longer targeting the LCD but the other display output, the crt. What shows up in the video modes? If you can switch to a 15kHz mode, say 640x480, you could plug in the CRT and see what gives. ArcadeOSD will disappear onto the CRT at that stage anyway. Hit Esc to go back at any stage in ArcadeOSD. (there might be two 640x480 modes now, one called 30i and one called 60i, but nevermind that here. Both should work, but if you're on one, try changing to the other).

[Calamity]

Hmm, have you actually extended the Windows desktop? So when you go to the regular windows display settings right now, you should see two separate monitors called 1 and 2, not the combined 1/2 single screen. (If you hadn't extended the desktop before, do it now, then take a look at the res on the CRT. If it's 640x480, try plugging in the CRT.)

+1

Sounds like he might have a cloned desktop. It won't work that way.

Anyway, this picture:



Shows that EDID emulation is definitely working, so it should be fixable one way or another.

[lixir]

Thanks Guys, just knowing that I'm pretty close to do it is already a good sign for me !

Here are my resolutions on Display 1(LCD) and 2(CRT i guess)

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZOU8XVZeYrK4Ppop8YMWsCn65mP485NC4aX

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZXI8XVZBmbhwMHjkJuUUdcx57F5dmNpCNs7

I do have 640x480 on screen 2 but I still get same bad result when I try switching

[lixir]

Hmm, have you actually extended the Windows desktop? So when you go to the regular windows display settings right now, you should see two separate monitors called 1 and 2, not the combined 1/2 single screen. (If you hadn't extended the desktop before, do it now, then take a look at the res on the CRT. If it's 640x480, try plugging in the CRT.)

+1

Sounds like he might have a cloned desktop. It won't work that way.

Anyway, this picture:



Shows that EDID emulation is definitely working, so it should be fixable one way or another.

I think that's the case, a clone desktop seems to be the issue.
It's like my main desktop is on lcd and I see my mouse moving out of the screen when sweeping right (going to second monitor which is CRT, and the res is 640x480 but the display is like that :
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZAVQXVZbD5HtslUuAy6qko0zRFcGb7EObxV

It looks like the res is not the same but frequency is still not 15khz

[Calamity]

That's 15 kHz. It's just not synchronizing for some reason (hsync issue). Silly question but... is your UMSA correctly powered?

[lixir]

It is yes, I ordered the board + scart + power supply to the same arcade shop, it's a 5v/2A PS.
But I have no Idea how to test if the board is functionnal asthere is no led or else allowing to show it's fully functionnal.
Is there any test I could try ?

EDIT : on the UMSA shop page it says :

"your computer must be able to produce a 15Khz signal from its VGA output, this adapter does not convert a 31 or 60Khz VGA signal to 15Khz."

But 640x480 is  480i right ?

[buttersoft]

Yeah that's not side-by-side stable images, which is what I was trying to highlight in my first response. As Calamity notes, it does look like 15kHz though. To make certain, try the steps i posted above with ArcadeOSD, or open windows display properties and check the refresh rate on the CRT - 480i would probably be reported as 30Hz. ArcadeOSD would be clearer about that.

The UMSA says it takes RGBHV, and from your screenshot you are not enabling composite sync (RGBS), so you are doing that correctly. The UMSA page also says it has a jumper for positive and negative sync output. Have you tried altering the position of the jumper - while power is off, i would guess?

Do you have a multimeter? You might try testing some voltages on the UMSA, i guess. As you say, there is no LED. Do you have a neighbour or friend with a small SCART CRT you could borrow, to see if it might be the TV? Otherwise, i would try installing resolutions as per Calamity's guide and seeing if some other modes might sync. You are using a regular old SCART TV, yes? There isn't some strange option in the menus to do with internal or external sync?

[lixir]

I tried with arcade OSD and managed to get this :
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ5UQXVZKIzURgoWFTjuHJS1KCenA5CwYbVy

So its a 640x480 60hz v and 30hz H on my lcd its already a progress since Im not able to choose less than 800x600 usually. So it seems to accept lower res but only on the lcd.
On the crt whatever I try results in the same thing. I will have to try with a multimeter tomorrow (Im in France so its late).
Thanks anyway, I ll have to check why its sending signal only on the displayport (I did try to send other res by switching monitors with arcade osd but it doesn’t change anything.

[buttersoft]

Nononono, not on the LCD.

my instructions were not quite right. They should read

... open ArcadeOSD on your LCD. Hit down to get to the option called Attach OSD to Current Monitor. Then hit the number "2" key (this is P2),  hit "1", hit "2" again. If that worked, you should now see the ArcadeOSD screen on the LCD again, but the line near the top should have changed so ArcadeOSD is no longer targeting the LCD but the other display output, the crt. Then go into Video Modes, but no further.

ok, in the shot below, see where it says \\.\DISPLAY1 Connected? After doing the above, that should say whatever number your CRT would be connected to. You can check this in the VMM screenshot above - looks like it should be Display2 on a fresh boot. (Display numbers increment when you install modes or enable EDID and the driver restarts, but then they start again you restart windows). You can open VMM again and check.


Then, go into video modes, you should see the screen below. One mode should be highlighted without you doing anything. In fact there may only be one mode right now. Take a screenshot of your own on this screen, please, and post it up


If you were to then hit enter on a particular mode, you will go to the screen you posted just now, but with ArcadeOSD set to target DISPLAY2, the screen will move over to the CRT so we won't see it. The shot you posted is on the LCD, showing the mode the LCD is displaying, and we don't really care about that right now

[lixir]

Thanks, I already did all of that with no results. After linking to display 2, pressing 2 to switch on CRT then applying one of the different res (I can't see once it's on the CRT but I hit enter once to go to video modes then enter again on the res I choosed before on the LCD) I tried with every res possible, nothing is changing always that sweeping thing, I can barely see the desktop.

I think the UMSA isn't working, since it's suppose to merge H and V signals from VGA to SCART, maybe it's the problem. Or is it coming from the CRT ?

[Calamity]

Thanks, I already did all of that with no results. After linking to display 2, pressing 2 to switch on CRT then applying one of the different res (I can't see once it's on the CRT but I hit enter once to go to video modes then enter again on the res I choosed before on the LCD) I tried with every res possible, nothing is changing always that sweeping thing, I can barely see the desktop.

Man, we need to see what the Arcade OSD menu shows when it's on the other screen. Pressing 2 brings the menu back to the LCD screen, after you've attached it to display 2. We need to see the mode list that's in there.

[lixir]

well in my case pressing 2 brings the menu to CRT, and when pressing 1 it comes back to LCD. Btw I have installed all res so when opening video modes I do have a bunch of 15khz choice.
I also tried to choose 2nd monitor (CRT) as my main, but then LCD become desktop with no icons and since my CRT display is sweeping, I have hard time to bring the res windows back to the lcd .

Every tutorials I' watched makes it look very easy and I'm beeing mindtricked for weeks, my only guess is that one of my component isn't working as it should.

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZFajXVZfodb5Phas3RTmumWKzE1tVSc8rm7

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZ1ajXVZr88kY0V0REQ4GqWGmWaV54jV96zV


By any means, if someone has time to make a short video with steps , to get the exact order of things to do (Im pretty sure I have done everything but maybe I forgot something)

Is Atom15 flashing could be a solution ?

[Calamity]

Leave ATOM-15 alone by now.

Please do a video yourself with the issue, the steps you're following (I just need the Arcade OSD part), it'll be easier to spot what your missing.

E.g., your Arcade OSD screen still shows \\.\DISPLAY1. This is wrong. You must press "2" to send it to the other monitor->attach osd to current monitor (just press down twice to go to the correct option in case you can see, then "enter"-> finally, press "2" again to bring the osd back to the LCD. At that point you should see it displaying \\.\DISPLAY2 "ARCADE_15"

[lixir]

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZkXuXVZH2LwP5vIp5yAqqbKuEktSpYd6Fxk

Thanks Calamity, I did what you said and I realized when it switches to go to crt its still display 1, you can see on my video

[Calamity]

Ok, as I thought. Please re-read my previous post, you're missing the step "Attach osd to current monitor"

[lixir]

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZARuXVZsSEShFRgTepJbB7wQec3FbaOv0wy

I did same step than on first video but attached osd to current monitor and I managed to get display 2 but as you can see on the video, Crt is still sweeping

[Calamity]

Your video doesn't work, it's just a still image here...

[lixir]

Try again, the time to upload may have been a prob

[Calamity]

Now, with the osd attached to \\.\DISPLAY2, enter the video mode list, and show us finally what's in there.

[lixir]

https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZyxuXVZT6AKA8NGav8Ufv4BOCwKFLamVjXV

[Calamity]

Ok great.

While it should sync the way it is now, I can see you didn't create the modes on the correct connector. All the modes in the pic you posted before were added to the LCD connector instead of the DVI. So now try repeating the process but this time make sure to pick the correct output in the device list drop down menu in the video cards tab (VMMaker). Don't touch the EDID emulation part, that's already done.

Once you do that, you'll have a list of modes to pick from in \\.\DISPLAY2, try some. Chances are your TV won't sync even then, but we'll have discarded other things.

[lixir]

I did what you suggested, and I do have now all the modes on display 2, I tried all of them but it didn't change anything.

I'm pretty sure I'm quite there, but it looks like there's something missing.

[Calamity]

Now try creating the modes again using the generic_15 preset, as buttersoft pointed above.

It probably won't help, but we'll rule out the possibility that the modes are a bit off standard.

[lixir]

Done, and not working.
It's like when I activated these other res, it's worse. When edid is on, it's sweeping but I can barely see the desktop through de sweep, and when I activate new modes, I don't see anything but a mess sweeping.

I heard about GroovyArcade, by any chance could it solve the issue ?

[buttersoft]

I heard about GroovyArcade, by any chance could it solve the issue ?

Well, GA is linux, so that's up to you. If you know how to use linux you could give it a go.

I would guess the problem is somewhere with the hardware or physical bits, so:

• the UMSA
• the Cables
• the CRT
• the GPU output

I'm not sure what will be most convenient for you, but in very rough order:
 
1. Not sure what to do about the UMSA. You did say above that you tried bypassing it with a "Special" VGA-to-SCART cable, but what does special mean? Can you link to where you got it? A cheap one which puts VGA pin13 straight to SCART pin 20 with nothing in between might be ideal. Then you could disable EDID emulation, tick the "enable composite sync" box, and re-enable EDID. Then try plugging in the VGA-to-SCART cable without the UMSA in the middle. This post about composite sync is worth reading first - https://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1343#p1343

2. Are the VGA or SCART cables missing any pins on either end? And - very important - do you own a multimeter? Test pin-to-pin of each cable, noting that SCART should swap video in and and video out between ends (so, pin 19 with 20, is it?).

3. Do you have another CRT, does a neighbour, can you find one at a junk shop, are you on any relevant local/regional facebook groups? You're in France, yes? so most sets should have RGB SCART... Or, is there something else you could connect to the TV you have to prove that it works ok? Ideally a console using RGB SCART, of course, but composite might be better than nothing. Or a Digital TV receiver of some kind?

4. Can you plug the DVI-I port on the GPU into a different display of some kind? Ideally this would be done via VGA - so any older LCD should be perfect. You would need to disable EDID emulation for that port, of course.

[Rion]

Couldn't this be done without having the LCD connected?
Try using a laptop/another desktop and connect with remote desktop. TeamViewer for example?

[buttersoft]

Couldn't this be done without having the LCD connected?
Try using a laptop/another desktop and connect with remote desktop. TeamViewer for example?

I... think we're past that stage now. Now it looks like a hardware issue of some kind.

EDIT i did want to check - Lixir, you did try moving the sync jumper on the UMSA, yes?

[Calamity]

Yes, sounds like a hw issue. Probably the cable, maybe the UMSA itself. I have an UMSA here and it's almost bullet proof (as long as its powered). But you can't discard a faulty unit.

First I'd try a different SCART cable. Some cables (many) aren't fully wired to cut costs.

You can also burn GA in a pendrive and double check, but that has its own potential complications.

[lixir]

Guys thanks for helping me out ! I will try what you said later tonight and come back to you. I will have this f.!,?.:! 15khz working one day !