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Author Topic: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder  (Read 149398 times)

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Zebidee

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GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« on: December 28, 2020, 10:49:14 am »
The GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder is now complete and finished versions are available!!  :applaud:


NEWS: GreenAntz v1.94 is now available, with significant improvements. More here




*What does it do?*

GreenAntz can take RGB from your PC/VGA and give you a high quality analogue component (YPbPr) output suitable for most SDTVs (CRTs).

The entire unit is about the same size as a small packet of cigarettes. It takes VGA RGBHV (D-SUB-15) input and standard RCA component outputs. It takes 5v input (max. 5.5v) via USB but can also accept direct input of 5v from almost any decent source including internal PC power ("MOLEX"), DC power supply for arcade PCBs or from a internal console source.

The only other things you'll need will be some standard cables: a VGA male to VGA male cable, a set of component video cables and a USB-C charging cable for power.



*Why is it special?*

GreenAntz gives very high quality colour-space conversion. We've done the math, spent months collecting data, bared our eyeballs until they are dry, and tweaked everything as much as we can. This, combined with superior csync generation and mixing into the luma gives a YPbPr picture quality that is almost indistinguishable from RGBs. In fact, I can't tell its not butter™




Some short demo videos:

Galaga


AD&D SoM


If you still aren't happy there are "colour balance" and "luma" pots, which come preset to "ideal" values. Tweak them if you dare ::)

You just plug it in and it works. It is so easy I've started using GreenAntz and a component-modded TV for all my desktop arcade PC development setup.  With GreenAntz, component TVs will take video modes generated by CRT_emulator as effortlessly as any RGBs arcade monitor or TV - possibly better because of the inbuilt csync generation. It is "zero-delay" and GreenAntz will not interfere with any 15khz video modes, allowing them to pass directly through.

GreenAntz will accept separate raw H&V sync input and combine that via XNOR logic into a csync suitable for most SDTVs (CRTs) with component inputs. That means you don't need to worry about generating composite sync by the driver or any other means. The sync is then filtered, trimmed and injected into the Y signal at the right level. It is designed for seamless use with CRT_emulator based PCs, and other devices, that output 15khz. It will also work with other 15khz RGBHV inputs such as from ArcadeVGA cards or other software like Soft15khz.

The PCB footprint also allows GreenAntz to be built for SCART input from consoles and other devices. SCART builds usually have no need for XNOR csync, so GreenAntz can alternatively be built with a "sync stripper and cleaner" circuit to make it more suitable for insertion into the Y signal.

With a little adaptation, GreenAntz can also be made to work with arcade game PCBs. We designed it for maximum flexibility and included separate 5v + GND landing pads for alternative applications. Using the XNOR sync is entirely optional for custom builds. It is also possible to do blended builds or to attenuate the XNOR sync logic to better suit your exact purpose.

*Kits*

Our original idea was to make kits available cheaply, so that hobbyists and arcade repairers could access GreenAntz cheaply for their projects. That is why we've stuck with mostly through-hole components. However, a few SMD parts have snuck in (THS7374 amplifier IC, 3 logic gate chips, and the USB-C port!) which are making it difficult to offer that option reliably. I'm hoping that we can have a discussion about the possibilities so let's talk more.  :blah:

*History*

Retrogaming *easily* on component SDTVs has long been in the back of my mind. PC/arcade RGBHV outputs don't translate well without expensive and big boxes, and/or complicated setups.

Many people have easy access to component TVs, especially in the US, but finding RGB input TVs is usually much harder (unless you live in Europe). Some of those people would come here looking for help, but often go away sad.

Fast-forward to three years ago, and I picked up four 20" TVs that I thought I could RGB mod, but I wasn't able to. However, I was able to component-mod them. Trouble was, I had no handy transcoder to run component signals into them! So I researched a few old designs from the Sega forums ("Ace"), read some datasheets and stuff, and improved on them. I bread-boarded my design and got a reasonable result. However my life was steamrolling forward and I'd run out of time to develop the project, so I published my progress & designs on the Aussie Arcade forums about two years ago:

https://www.aussiearcade.com/forum/arcade/arcade-technical-and-repair-questions/monitor-and-chassis-repair-help/99015-pc-rgb-to-component-converter-tv-hack#post2157213

From there I met a fellow Aussie from Melbourne, "dekdek", who took the design, added some flair, and turned it into a prototype PCB. We started collaborating directly to improve the prototype designs. We helped each other and both learned a lot.

One way to say it: this is our COVID-19 social innovation project. We have have used the COVID lockdown period to focus on collaborating and maturing this GreenAntz RGB to Component Transcoder to reality.



*How can I be sure it works?*

We've been working on this for about three years, and I have a box full of old, reliable yet progressively better prototypes. Lots and lots of testing and analysis. It works.

*Why announce it here?*

Because we always intended to make this project available for community use, and to help us make it better. It is a way of giving back to everyone. We see a huge potential for using component TVs for retrogaming and even as monitors for arcade machines.

*Can I get one already???*

Member price is US$45

If you want to buy a GreenAntz please message me directly, don't ask me on this thread.

If you are a new member, note that you must make a post before personal messaging is unlocked.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2024, 02:25:18 am by Zebidee »
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Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2020, 10:51:14 am »
FAQ:


Q. What frequencies does it support?

A. GreenAntz works best with component input SDTVs at 15khz in video modes up 480i or 576i.


Q. Does GreenAntz work just like RGB?

A. Yes, with GreenAntz your SDTV works just like an RGB input or RGB modded TV would.


Q. Does it support 31khz?

A. GreenAntz is designed for SDTV applications and does not officially support VGA or HDTV video modes 480p or above. You still need to generate a 15khz signal from your PC or other device using CRT_emudriver or ArcadeVGA or similar.


Q. Can I use GreenAntz with my HDTV then?

A. It comes down to your TV. Some HDTVs recognise component inputs below 480p, but some do not. I've tested it with my older Panasonic Smart TV, and it works as it scales the image to 480i or 576i. But it doesn't work with my newer LG smart TV. So - you may require a scaler as well. This is a common issue for older consoles. *Fortunately*, you can usually output from PC or Pi etc. to HDTV via VGA or HDMI or DVI or DP instead, so that isn't really an issue for PC or CRT_emudriver users.

GreenAntz will still happily pass sync + colour signals at 480p+, but HD-component video requires a different colour coding matrix, meaning even though you might get a picture the colours would probably look weird (exact results depend on your TV or monitor).


Q. What sync does GreenAntz support?

A.  GreenAntz supports RGBHV with either negative or positive sync, and now also supports RGBs (composite) sync input.

GreenAntz might not work so well with mixed polarity sync (+-, -+).


Q. What makes GreenAntz sync so good?

GreenAntz composite sync generation is cleaner than many, including a "deglitching" filter. The sync tip integration into luma (Y) is also superior (compared to many other products on Ali/ebay), involving less loss of luma signal amplitude. This means you get a clearer and brighter picture with no loss of colour brightness or definition. Yellows look more yellow, white looks more white, blue not so dark etc.


Q. Does GreenAntz support composite sync input as well as separate H+V sync?

A. Yes, GreenAntz supports composite sync input. You can choose between sync input types with a simple slide-switch. If you have one of the very earliest versions, read post below to upgrade.





Q. How do I power GreenAntz not using a PC/USB device, like a games console or arcade cab?

A1. use a normal USB2.0/3.0 to USB-C cable and plug it into a normal USB charge brick, like what you might use for a mobile phone.





A2. GreenAntz comes with 5v and GND landing pads/holes, making it easy to route alternate power. They are marked, at the GreenAntz logo, right between the USB port and the VGA jack. Using these, you can connect GreenAntz directly to the 5v from your DC power supply. Don't get your 5v and GND lines mixed up!

From v1.9, GreenAntz will include a diode for reverse-polarity protection on this connection.





The 5v/GND landing pinholes are 5.08mm (2/10 inch) separated, making it easy to drop/solder in a screw terminal header. This makes it simple to remove the GreenAntz unit as needed in the future.


Q. What are GreenAntz power requirements?

A. GreenAntz uses very little power. It can run with 3.3v - 5.5v, ~5v recommended. At ~5v it will draw ~80-90mA, less than 1/2 watt.


Q. Do you get any lag with GreenAntz?

A. GreenAntz is "zero lag", an analog device with no digital processing. Comparing inputs with outputs, signal response latency is about 20 nanoseconds (comparing rising or falling edges on an oscilloscope), though when signal inputs go from extreme LOW to extreme HIGH or vice-versa, there can be up to 100ns (0.1 microseconds) before signal output fully peaks/bottoms.

So I think an estimate of "tens of nanoseconds" latency is about right, which would qualify as "zero lag". About as fast as it gets.


NOTE: This post will be updated occasionally with new info so may change over time
« Last Edit: February 07, 2024, 01:53:00 am by Zebidee »
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Arroyo

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2020, 09:52:08 am »
Posted in the other page, but why not more than once!  Very cool, nice job!

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2020, 02:16:41 am »
Posted in the other page, but why not more than once!  Very cool, nice job!

TYVM!

My Aussie buddy "dekdek" deserves a lot of credit too.
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bobbyb13

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2020, 02:54:10 am »
I can finally use all the Sony Trinitrons I have here without the fear of destroying them by blowing it on an RGB mod you say...?!?

This is rad.  I want one.

Maybe two if I can afford it
 ;D
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

dekkit

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2020, 06:50:40 am »
Very well written summary Zeb!

This has been a long journey and your photos look fantastic.

A successful combination of us both wanting something really great for both 240p retro consoles (rgb scart) and pc (vga) and collaborating to make that a reality.  Intensively scoped and tested across a range of crts too.

Definately another alternative to rgb modding a crt - which is always more effort than it seems!

Dek
(Aka dekkit, dekdek)


This hopefully will open more options for the retro gaming community.




morton

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2020, 08:13:28 pm »
I feel like I'm reading that I can output 240p to a Sony KV27FS120 and it will display 240p over component. For whatever reason it feels too good to be true. They're free in these parts

dekkit

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2020, 11:09:30 pm »
You can easily test out 240p support over component inputs yourself using any composite video rca cable and a device that outputs a 240p image (old console like ps1 or nes etc).

If you place the yellow cable into the green (y) input (of your component inputs), you should get a stable 240p black and white image. If you do,  your crt will greatly benefit a greenantz transcoder and you'll enjoy a really sharp crispy color image at 240p.

Fyi - where im from (Australia) rgb scart really wasnt available here (except for some select high end crts).  I was researching and working out an rgb conversion method to support component inputs and where i could preserve my trinitron in original condition (without modification) and was also looking to support another crt that could not be rgb modded. This is when I found schematics for aces, modified aces, zeb early versions and combined all the best bits to get something initially working for my needs eventually came in regular contact with zeb...(..and well the rest is best described in his first post :)

Dek
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 06:18:51 pm by dekkit »

morton

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2020, 11:43:06 pm »
Sounds good. I'm gonna go get me a TV... Any idea when these are gonna be available? I feel like I'm having to wait on anything remotely fun. Meanwhile, there's always boring stuff that needs to get done, and supplies rarely dwindle  :lol

dekkit

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2021, 12:36:00 am »
Best message Zeb in the first instance (or myself in the second).  There are few available now.

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2021, 05:31:22 am »
Sounds good. I'm gonna go get me a TV... Any idea when these are gonna be available? I feel like I'm having to wait on anything remotely fun. Meanwhile, there's always boring stuff that needs to get done, and supplies rarely dwindle  :lol
Best message Zeb in the first instance (or myself in the second).  There are few available now.

I'm two-thirds through next batch now :P All accounted for with pre-orders! Had to pause momentarily for New Year celebrations.

For people waiting, this batch should be ready to send out tomorrow.

Check out my completed projects!


Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2021, 11:35:27 pm »
First batch complete.

Just doing final tests and QC now.
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yatzr

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2021, 12:04:02 pm »
This looks awesome! Does it also support 31khz, or just 15khz?

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2021, 08:19:25 pm »
This looks awesome! Does it also support 31khz, or just 15khz?

What application do you have in mind? You mean VGA/31khz to a HDTV?
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2021, 04:41:59 pm »
I am definitely interested.  For some reason I can't PM.

Built my MAME Cabinet back when the first book came out.  Been getting information from this site since.  Finally joined today.
Around Since the first BYOAC book.  Finally Joined!

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2021, 11:55:53 pm »
For some reason I can't PM.
First post approved ==> PMs enabled.   :cheers:


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2021, 03:14:38 am »
Is there any NTSC encoding on it? Can I wire up a composite or Svideo jack for TVs that don't have YUV?

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2021, 04:14:58 am »
Is there any NTSC encoding on it? Can I wire up a composite or Svideo jack for TVs that don't have YUV?

Short answer is no - GreenAntz transcodes colour space from RGB to YPbPr ("component"), which is different to the colour space for svideo or composite.

GreenAntz doesn't convert video into NTSC or PAL, as this is unnecessary. It creates a composite sync from separate horizontal and vertical sync, but it doesn't do anything to change the video mode timings. That means you get the same flexibility for video modes as an RGB TV or monitor, but with a component TV.

Component TVs are comparable to RGB in quality, which makes component TVs more attractive to retrogamers. Some composite or svideo input TVs can be often be modded to take RGB inputs, but in many cases it is easier to mod TVs for component input.
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buttersoft

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2021, 07:02:04 pm »
Nice job, boys! I'd go for one, but i built one of the prototypes which works just fine :)

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2021, 10:33:50 pm »
Nice job, boys! I'd go for one, but i built one of the prototypes which works just fine :)

Thanks! We've come a long way since those giddy days, I have a box full of old prototypes now :lol

Some improvements we've made since then include:
- voltage regulation
- improved colour & luma balance
- decent composite sync generation from H&V (rather than "cleaned smushy" sync)
- better integration of the "sync tip" with the luma (Y)
- onboard VGA, USB & RCA jacks
- mounting feet
- cool art!

We will also produce an updated SCART version soon (once the audio jacks come in from Lala Land).
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Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2021, 10:52:16 am »
A significant update: GreenAntz transcoders will now be able to support composite sync INPUT via VGA.

This means you can now use GreenAntz with adapter dongles like DVI-VGA and DP-VGA and HDMI-VGA, as well as straight VGA.

GreenAntz VGA has previously required separate Horizontal and vertical sync input in order to generate composite sync to blend with the luma (Y). That is no longer the case, now GreenAntz can take a composite sync input, which it will process, regenerate and clean before mixing into the YPbPr output.

This upgrade involves some extra jumper pins on the PCBs, which allow you to choose either separate H+V or composite sync input. A jumper and dupont wire (wire with female ends that slip onto the pins) will also be provided with future GreenAntz.

In the future your GreenAntz will look like this, with an extra jumper next to the VGA port. Jumper on is the default (H+V sync) configuration:



To enable composite sync input, you will need to remove the jumper and from pins and replace with dupont wire as pictured:



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Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2021, 11:51:37 am »
For those people who have already bought GreenAntz, here are some simple instructions so you can upgrade it to composite sync input. You will need a soldering iron.

Find the spots circled in yellow.



First, remove the wire connecting the two spots (pins 1&2) next to the VGA port. This wire enables vertical sync. Pin 2 takes Vsync from VGA, Pin 1 passes it on to composite sync processing. Once you have removed the wire and solder, replace with 2 pin headers. Use a jumper on these pins to enable separate H+V sync. With the jumper off, Vsync is disabled and GreenAntz will accept composite sync via H sync line.

When I talk about adding pin headers, I mean use these guys. I don't know what they are called otherwise, but you can buy them in strips very cheaply from electronics retailers. They break off easily with pliers.



Then add a single pin header to the the other spot circled. This is a Vcc source that is otherwise unused in the VGA version. Your GreenAntz will now look a bit like this:



Now for composite sync input, use a Dupont wire to connect Vsync Pin 1 to the Vcc pin. This "enables" composite sync. You might like to think of it as a blanking signal.



To simplify things: If you want to make GreenAntz permanently for composite input, you could just cut the wire connecting pins 1&2, and solder a wire directly onto pin 1. You can also get the Vcc "blanking" voltage from this other jumper spot for enabling/disabling the low-pass filter (LPF). The leftmost pin (at "U7", "DISABLE") has the Vcc required. You would need to move the jumper to the right ("ENABLE" position) in order to free up the pin.




Clear as mud? Please ask questions if you don't understand.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2021, 07:44:37 pm »
Very cool-

Proving that I should have bought 6 of these!
 :lol

I have a pile of other TVs that don't have component inputs.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2021, 10:57:21 pm »
Very cool-

Proving that I should have bought 6 of these!
 :lol

Thanks Bobby. However you may have been prudent to wait a little, as I will upgrade all future GreenAntz as above. The composite sync input option really does make it more flexible.
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Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2021, 11:03:07 pm »
Another quick update:

I am currently building a SCART input version of GreenAntz. We have done SCART prototypes before, but this time we'll be able to take advantage of the sync building circuit for better sync filtering and injection into the luma (Y). Stay tuned!
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2021, 11:31:35 pm »
GreenAntz looks awesome! (I'm making my first post in hopes of being approved so I can PM and make an order.) I'm excited for something like this-Big Time. And thank you to all who made it possible.

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2021, 07:25:36 am »
You should be able to PM now that you have sent a post :)
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nitrogen_widget

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2021, 02:02:14 pm »
I have a flat tube crt with component in, a raspberry pi + gert, and an rpi image designed to output 15 khz out the gert vga.
I just need to find a few hours and a spot to hook it all up.
it's final home will probably be hooked up to my berzerk once i finish all the repairs to the boards i have.

It shipped super fast also.
thanks Zebidee!

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2021, 03:11:59 pm »
I have a flat tube crt with component in, a raspberry pi + gert, and an rpi image designed to output 15 khz out the gert vga.
I just need to find a few hours and a spot to hook it all up.
it's final home will probably be hooked up to my berzerk once i finish all the repairs to the boards i have.

It shipped super fast also.
thanks Zebidee!

Nice one Nitro, and thanks! Once you get your Pi sorted out, setting up GreenAntz should be as simple as plugging it in :D
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2021, 04:04:18 am »
HOT NEWS!!

GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder is now available with SCART input. That means you can use component TVs with your favourite consoles that output RGB via SCART!

Includes audio pass-through so you can enjoy your games sounds via your TV speakers (or any other sound system as desired).
« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 04:06:40 am by Zebidee »
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2021, 09:16:39 pm »
I received my GreenAntz (from Thailand to Kentucky,USA in <2weeks. FAST!
I am a novice and will report back how good things look when I get moving along with my 15khz drivers but I wanted to say it's legit for anyone reading. The pcb looks well-built with quality and nicely packed.  :notworthy:

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2021, 08:56:41 pm »
I received my GreenAntz (from Thailand to Kentucky,USA in <2weeks. FAST!
I am a novice and will report back how good things look when I get moving along with my 15khz drivers but I wanted to say it's legit for anyone reading. The pcb looks well-built with quality and nicely packed.  :notworthy:

Thanks rynne :D
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2021, 09:04:53 pm »
Another upgrade to announce!

Slide-switch to select sync input mode, H+V or composite. Simpler, tidier, no bits to misplace. Got rid of the jumper and wire arrangement. 





Have just completed another batch of these, sold some already.

Also replaced the jumper for LPF filter with a slide-switch (left side, middle, below LED). I am tempted to completely remove switch or jumper here and just leave it in the default DISABLED position. It doesn't add much benefit except if you have a dirty signal, and introduces 800ns lag, so I may just remove it in the future to make it less confusing. Does anybody have an opinion one way or the other?

Reminder: RGB SCART to component versions of GreenAntz are available now. They will work directly with your consoles etc. that output RGB via SCART cable. They have the GreenAntz improved sync tip integration with the luma signal (for a brighter, clearer picture than some other transcoders) and include left/right audio passthrough.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2021, 03:34:48 am »
Can you offer any wisdom in regard to powering the GreenAntz through the USB-C port, outside of a PC box?

I'm finally ready to test out my Jrok multi Williams here and can get 5v from the power supply and dice up a usb-c cable but have no idea which wires I am tapping to power my GreenAntz board.

Any hints so I don't have to worry about blowing anything up?
 :D
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2021, 04:29:13 am »
Can you offer any wisdom in regard to powering the GreenAntz through the USB-C port, outside of a PC box?

I'm finally ready to test out my Jrok multi Williams here and can get 5v from the power supply and dice up a usb-c cable but have no idea which wires I am tapping to power my GreenAntz board.

Any hints so I don't have to worry about blowing anything up?
 :D

Thank you for the question Bobby! The answer is there are a few options.

1) use a normal USB2.0/3.0 to USB-C cable and plug it into a normal USB charge brick, like what you might use for a mobile phone.

2) hack a USB-C cable like you suggested

3) use the 5v and GND landing pads/holes provided on the board, clearly marked, and right between the USB port and the VGA jack. Using these, you can connect GreenAntz directly to the 5v from your DC power supply.

For an arcade cab with no PC, I'd suggest option (3). There is an added advantage here: you can drop in a standard pair of screw terminals here as the holes are spaced a standard 5.08mm (2/10 inch) apart. That means you don't have to solder your wires in, and can remove the GreenAntz easily as needed.

GreenAntz voltage input can be as low as 3v and up to 5.5v, recommended ~5v. It uses only about 80-90mA current with ~5v input.

I will grab a couple of pics in a minute and add it to this post.

EDIT: I added some pics and information to the FAQ post above instead
« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 07:31:05 pm by Zebidee »
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2021, 06:22:41 pm »
I already have a Retrotek VGACTV1 VGA to Component transcoder (which I don't think are available any longer) but will consider picking up one of these anyway to compare features and performance.  Anything that allows quality utilization of old CRT tech in our hobby has real value.  Thanks for the work you guys have put in to this.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2021, 08:03:28 pm »
Thanks Ond :D

I was inspired the other day to do some latency tests with the oscilloscope, comparing inputs to GreenAntz vs inputs to TV (so includes some cabling). Signal response latency was only about 20 nanoseconds (comparing rising or falling edges), though when signal inputs went from extreme LOW to extreme HIGH or vice-versa there could be up to 100ns (0.1 microseconds) before signal output fully peaked/bottomed.

So I think an estimate of "tens of nanoseconds" latency is about right, which would qualify as "zero lag". About as fast as it gets.

For these tests I compared inputs/outputs for green/luma and vertical/composite sync.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2021, 08:33:45 pm »
How much is this thing?  I can’t follow this thread

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2021, 09:21:13 pm »
How much is this thing?  I can’t follow this thread

Special price for you Pbj (and other members), only US$45 + courier shipping ($15 to USA via USPS). Price for strictly limited time, basically until I can be bothered listing some on our favourite online marketplaces.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2021, 03:00:06 pm »
Very nice work!  :cheers:

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2021, 08:53:34 pm »
Very nice work!  :cheers:

Thanks Emphatic!

Many people ask "Can I use GreenAntz to turn a component TV into a monitor for an arcade cabinet?"

The answer is YES and I'll give a brief overview.

Firstly, you'll need some 500R (500 ohm) potentiometers in series on the RGB inputs to GreenAntz. This is to bring the higher voltage arcade RGB signals down to typical SDTV levels ~0.7vpp. I chose cermet multiturn pots for this as they are much better quality and easier to adjust than the standard cheap carbon film trimpots, which are very fiddly and break easily.

You can then run the RGBS+Ground signals through the pots and into the GreenAntz using a VGA (male) header with screw terminals. You won't need any resistors or pots on the sync signal when using the VGA version of GreenAntz.

You can do similar thing with the SCART version of GreenAntz, but you will need to put a resistor (~500 to 1000 ohms) on the sync input.

   


Secondly, depending on your GreenAntz power supply, you may see significant interference as the ground loop is shared with the JAMMA. Better power supplies minimise this issue, but the simplest solution is to take the 5v directly from the DC PSU instead! You can do this with a simple cable made from 2 wires with female spade crimps on the PSU end, and tinned wire at the GreenAntz end. Alternatively, you could use fork/U connectors instead of female crimps or a 4-pin molex header if using an ATX type power supply.

Pop a standard 5.08mm pitch 2-post screw terminal onto the GreenAntz (using the pads/holes that are already on the PCB), or even solder directly to the PCB. Make sure to mark the ground terminal with a permanent marker so you don't get the wires mixed up (I marked the terminal after taking the photos below, but you can see it marked in the middle pic above).


   


Finally, most arcade PCBs output composite sync, so you will need to enable composite sync input on the GreenAntz. In current versions you just flick a switch. However if you have a very early build of GreenAntz that doesn't support composite sync directly already, please refer to the FAQ above for info on how to make it work. You can also contact me directly and I'll help you.

If you have a SCART GreenAntz unit it supports composite sync already automatically (except you will need to add a resistor to sync input as noted above).

Here are a few gratuitous screenshots to keep you happy. for more information and screenshots check out my post on making the supergun with GreenAntz to test PCBs. Please contact me directly if you want to get a GreenAntz unit.


« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 08:56:18 pm by Zebidee »
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bobbyb13

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2021, 05:10:13 pm »
A-ha!

Brilliant.

I remember you saying this was possible but I have been too busy to have time to try it.

Maybe soon I hope?
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2021, 04:47:17 pm »
Great converter!  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: I need one!  ;D

pixelss

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2022, 11:08:07 pm »
finally found a solution to my upcoming cabinet that i will like to use my CRT tv with my desktop.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2022, 12:12:34 am »
Cool to see such creativy. Doing things others haven't.
Life is a Game and we are all being Played.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2022, 01:27:03 am »
Great converter!  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: I need one!  ;D

Yes, and yes.

I have 5 and they just work.
Great support from that Zebidee guy too, if you need it.

Find yourself a component input tv and make your mame life grand.
Don't worry that it is coming from a far away land.
It will get to you (even if it goes through New Jersey on it's way to Hawai'i...?!)
 :lol
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2022, 01:51:36 am »
Great converter!  :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: I need one!  ;D

Yes, and yes.

I have 5 and they just work.
Great support from that Zebidee guy too, if you need it.

Find yourself a component input tv and make your mame life grand.
Don't worry that it is coming from a far away land.
It will get to you (even if it goes through New Jersey on it's way to Hawai'i...?!)
 :lol

Thanks Bobby!

I don't think the parcels really go to NJ. Bangkok port area has various "free trade zones" where foreign companies can operate with tax concessions and other investment incentives. Part of it involves being able to declare their warehouse as domestic soil, to a limited extent (not like an embassy, but for tax/duties/payroll etc.). Thus why the tracking may show a parcel going to NJ, even if it never physically goes there (or does it!!!!  :o   I'm just playing with your brain now).


« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 02:13:07 am by Zebidee »
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2022, 08:54:06 pm »
I must have one of these!  How do I get my hands on one?  I cant seen to send PM's on here yet I suppose because I am new to the forum.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2022, 11:01:42 pm »
I must have one of these!  How do I get my hands on one?  I cant seen to send PM's on here yet I suppose because I am new to the forum.

Hi fsmith2003 and welcome to BYOAC! The forum lets you send PMs after you have posted, so you should be good to go now.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2022, 04:56:35 pm »
How much is this thing?  I can’t follow this thread

Special price for you Pbj (and other members), only US$45 + courier shipping ($15 to USA via USPS). Price for strictly limited time, basically until I can be bothered listing some on our favourite online marketplaces.

Hi, I just came across this thread and I love that there's another alternative to Retrotink's overpriced RGB2COMP.

Do you have a site to order and what kind of changes have their been since this mid 2021 post?
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2022, 09:02:03 pm »
Just PM me to order. Prices still same as above.

It is still basically the same as you can see in the latest pictures above. I've been tinkering with a SMD/boxed version, but it will be a while.

The RGB2COMP only has SCART input. This is great for consoles, but if you want to use it with a PC you still have to manage combining H+V sync and buy/hack a VGA-SCART cable together.

With GreenAntz there are both VGA (PC/Pi/PCB etc.) and SCART (console) input versions. VGA version "rolls its own" clean composite sync from your raw PC sync input, then slips it into the Y signal for your TV. This means to connect GreenAntz VGA to a PC, you just need a standard VGA male-male, which are cheap and available everywhere.

GreenAntz is also great for arcade cabs as the PCB legs make it easy to screw into place.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2022, 05:43:29 pm »
This unit is exactly what i have been searching for! I'm not sure why it's so difficult to find without going through multiple adapters and cables...  I guess those of us who are interested in reaching this far back in technology must not be many. I will send you a PM to purchase if it's still available. Thanks for making this! :notworthy:

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2022, 06:48:45 pm »
Thanks Zebidee, will be PMing you to order  :applaud:

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2023, 12:49:02 am »
Well, I go away for a few years and everything changes. Sending you a PM now Zeb.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2023, 11:54:35 pm »
Wow! I’ll need to snag a few of these.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2023, 10:49:20 pm »
Definitely need to upgrade from pal s-video to one of these, but will a boxed version be coming any time soon?

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2023, 05:44:07 am »
Eventually I'd like to make a box, but not a priority. Will make another small batch soon though.
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Re: ** NEW IMPROVED ** GreenAntz v1.9 available!
« Reply #57 on: February 05, 2024, 10:33:26 pm »
GreenAntz v1.9 is out!


I've recently made multiple significant improvements to the GreenAntz design, including:

1) boosted signal levels and greater accuracy
2) crispier, "faster" (transition/skew rates), sharper image
3) brighter, clearer and more consistent colours (more apparent in games with large areas of a single colour)
4) reverse-polarity protection for external power connection
5) cleaner design





GreenAntz is up to version 1.9 now, and will likely my last revision, at least for this retro-styled through-hole design. I think I've squeezed the last drops of good stuff out with this.

The latest v1.9 PCBs (black) have only just arrived, so haven't been able to assemble any yet.

However, I've already built a "limited edition" batch of the GreenAntz v1.9 design onto these racecar-red v1.8 PCBs. They look hot, if a little Christmassy, and red must be faster right? There are minor "cosmetic" differences. Two (unused) holes are somehow misaligned by a fraction of a millimeter. Some components are different to PCB markings. Otherwise exactly the same as v1.9.

The newer GreenAntz v1.9 PCBs are plain black. So order now if you want red.




These are all VGA units but a SCART version is also available.


In other news:


To go with the improved picture output, I've added (re-instated) a switch to optionally activate a sixth-order "Butterworth" 9.5Mhz low-pass filter built into the main amplifier IC. This tidies/smooths the signal and passes SDTV very nicely, but you may lose a whiff of sharpness and comes with an ~800 nanoseconds delay (<1 microsecond, barely noticeable even to most people who worry a lot about latency). Choose your own adventure. If you want to see what 800ns delay looks like on a video signal, switch this off/on and see the picture shift right by up to 1-2mm (depends on screen size).

Contact me if you want to order. For people who have expressed interest recently, i will try to follow-up. I miss you for some reason, please contact me directly anyway.

Will post some more stuff soon about improvements, picture quality and comparisons.




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bobbyb13

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2024, 01:23:51 pm »
Well now!

Hadn't thought that the version I had could be improved upon really.

Cool to see that you're still at it with this project Andrew.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2024, 02:51:08 pm »
Hadn't thought that the version I had could be improved upon really.


Hmm, how about I send you a free one to compare, discuss, review?

If they are red, surely they go faster...  :dunno
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buttersoft

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2024, 05:46:13 pm »
Gee, if i wasn't broke right now...

I always like to see the updates to this one, your original effort was a great transcoder to begin with, and the extra functionalities to sync have been things i've always wanted in other devices. Another nice job!

bobbyb13

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2024, 07:55:23 pm »
An outstanding excuse to build another machine!

Hadn't thought that the version I had could be improved upon really.


Hmm, how about I send you a free one to compare, discuss, review?

If they are red, surely they go faster...  :dunno
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2024, 02:36:30 pm »
Cool, put me down for one of the new improved GreenAntz.

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2024, 04:22:06 pm »
I've been packing up parcels and sending them to the couriers last few days.

Apologies


For people who ordered the black GreenAntz v1.9 a while ago, I apologise for delays getting them out to you. They are on their way now. There are a few good reasons why I had to delay.

Progress

Firstly, I found that my USB oscilloscope (Owon) had been giving me some wonky readings because it was underpowered. New laptop I was using didn't give it enough juice. I rectified that with a powered USB hub, but it meant I had to re-do measurements and calibrations, especially the video signal output levels.

While I was there I re-visited the colour signal voltage references and also tweaked the regulated voltage up slightly to make a better match. This required some more research, thinking, probing, tinkering and testing. Things made more sense now that the scope had proper power.

Once everything was worked out and bedded down, I needed to update the GreenAntz units I'd already built, and test/calibrate them all again, often going back and repeating earlier steps until I was satisfied.

Further Improvements

Video output is even better again now, especially in terms of colour saturation (brighter, deeper, more accurate and consistent).

Best way to test this is to load up Time Pilot (or similar) and leave it on, let it go through the attract-mode screens (blue-green, green and magenta). Magenta (jets) is the best, as it pushes the video channels the hardest overall (if added together). The background colour should be deep, solid and consistent. No shadows or dark patches. The moving clouds should be bright and prominent, outstanding, not grey and not leaving "shadows". You can test blue by starting a game (the first stage background is a deep blue).

Classic-era games with large areas of solid colour are good for this testing this, such as Wonder Boy and Alex Kidd. You may have another favourite.

Sync Autoswitching - GreenAntz is a bit smarter now - smart enough to not need a switch to select between separate H + V sync VS composite sync input. After letting various ideas roll around in my head for a few days, I had a flash of inspiration  8)  It now auto-detects when there is no vertical sync, and quietly slips into composite sync mode. The coolest part of this upgrade is that it is straightforward, doesn't need any more or new logic gate ICs or PCB changes, uses a single ubiquitous cheap part, and can be implemented on the existing PCBs - even older GreenAntz units.

If you have an older GreenAntz, an urge to solder, and want to upgrade to sync autoswitching yourself, contact me for simple instructions.

Because the GreenAntz v1.9 units I just shipped already have a sync switch (next to VGA jack), I decided to leave it on rather than make a mess removing it. They have been upgraded - just leave it in the "V SYNC" position. Future builds won't have a sync switch.

Thank you all for your patience, it will be rewarded   :notworthy:




Pics! Back in black, sleek, sexy and always in fashion. There will be a few resistors, maybe a cap, soldered on underneath. These reflect the improvements discussed and they are quite solid, safe and secure, especially once the legs are installed.


« Last Edit: March 06, 2024, 05:32:14 pm by Zebidee »
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bobbyb13

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2024, 12:00:12 pm »
Fun to watch this evolve in real time!
Looking forward to swapping this latest version into something and getting some pictures/video to look for differences.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2024, 09:20:26 pm »
Nice! looking better than ever!

Sorry to miss the post due to issues i mentioned :(

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #66 on: March 18, 2024, 11:31:07 pm »
I have my new one now. About all I've done is unwrap it and inspect the board close up. I don't know how it performs yet (that's coming) but the PCB work is very clean and pro. I don't even know what those pots do  :lol.  I think it's kind of cool to have access to something very niche like this.  I certainly don't sell anything in the shop like it, just rubbishy vga to composite stuff. I'm not so much a purist as a perfectionist. If I go down the rabbit hole of design getting something to satisfy me goes on and on and Ond.  Good work work Zeb. :cheers:

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2024, 12:05:55 pm »
Nice! looking better than ever!

Sorry to miss the post due to issues i mentioned :(


I should give a special mention of your composite sync filtering dongle - used it often when doing testing of the composite sync autoswitching. Much more convenient than regenerating and reinstalling video modes via CRT_emudriver.


I have my new one now. About all I've done is unwrap it and inspect the board close up. I don't know how it performs yet (that's coming) but the PCB work is very clean and pro. I don't even know what those pots do  :lol.  I think it's kind of cool to have access to something very niche like this.  I certainly don't sell anything in the shop like it, just rubbishy vga to composite stuff. I'm not so much a purist as a perfectionist. If I go down the rabbit hole of design getting something to satisfy me goes on and on and Ond.  Good work work Zeb. :cheers:

Fun to watch this evolve in real time!
Looking forward to swapping this latest version into something and getting some pictures/video to look for differences.

Thanks Ond & Bobby, I am really looking forward to seeing your comparisons.

I may be caught in a design rabbit-hole myself - cannot ignore potential improvements. But there is light at the end of this tunnel. Am currently putting together a full-SMD design that, once I am satisfied, can be assembled more easily, or in a factory even. That might be something Ond could sell from his shop! This would be a good point to move on from, then perhaps even make the through-hole designs public.

To me, the main benefit of all this is what I learn and the cool people I get to engage with along the way.

Ond, might be best to leave the pots (luma and Pr) alone if you don't understand them - they are preset/calibrated with an oscilloscope anyway before leaving my lab. If in doubt, the sweet-spot is generally at around 40-45% of total range.

I am sorry to have not responded for a few days. I seriously hurt myself, fell asleep in my chair while pondering the sync, and fell off, bruised my ribs badly (because I landed on an upright scotch bottle which jabbed me hard between the ribs). Movement has been difficult and painful. Feeling a bit better today so braved the keyboard.

GOOD NEWS

The good news is that I'd completed most of that sync work already, and had half-completed a bunch of boards already.

Latest GreenAntz v1.94 includes a little more bling, an LED to indicate that a sync signal is present. It has three states - on means there is proper sync present, off means no sync, faintly lit means only improper sync is present (for example, horizontal but no vertical, or inverted sync). I also tidied-up the sync autoswitching a bit.

Unfortunately there is still no 15khz filtering of the sync signal. To implement this I'd need another logic gate, and can't really implement that with the current PCB.

@Buttersoft, I think I need to investigate using gambaman's programmed PIC for filtering processing sync. I've had a look through the C coding and it seems fairly straightforward. I'd appreciate any advice you have on where to start, especially regarding what ICs to use and how to program them.

Otherwise, I think I could probably achieve similar results with a quad-logic chip.

Here's a pic of the updated GreenAntz v1.94 with sync LED. I'm currently working on a few to fill orders.

Question: does the yellow sync LED look OK? Or should I go with red? I find the yellow looks too much like green, maybe the red would look better. What do you think?


« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 03:48:16 pm by Zebidee »
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2024, 10:09:13 pm »
After using it for a few weeks now, from DOS (200p60) to Indie (270p58) to Video (576i48), powered 24/7: Nothing much to say. It just works, looks like RGB.

The small cardboard box it was sent in was ideal for repurposing into a makeshift housing after adding cable holes.

Great work!

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2024, 10:27:25 pm »
I've sent a PM and want to get one of these bad boys!

I'm not a new member by any means but you had mentioned to make a post, so this is that. Just in case.
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Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2024, 11:40:09 am »
After using it for a few weeks now, from DOS (200p60) to Indie (270p58) to Video (576i48), powered 24/7: Nothing much to say. It just works, looks like RGB.

The small cardboard box it was sent in was ideal for repurposing into a makeshift housing after adding cable holes.

Great work!


Thanks Apoketo! You are very innovative, using the box like that. I will be working on a proper box soon.


I've sent a PM and want to get one of these bad boys!

I'm not a new member by any means but you had mentioned to make a post, so this is that. Just in case.


I'm currently assembling some v1.94 units with blue sync indicator LEDs, so I will be sure to add extra one for you. Will respond to you directly.

As reported earlier, I had a nasty accident. I'd summarise it as like being punched in the side of the chest by a god wearing knuckledusters. Not sure which god, but then they sure didn't give an F about me. It still hurts. Has softened me up, slowed me down, just a little. Every day gets a little bit better, bit will probably be a couple more weeks until I'm feeling great.

Anyways, production is now on again (to meet backorders first). I will get them out over the next few days.

Here is a quick pic of the GreenAntz v1.94 with sync LED. Promise to get some better pics out soon.


« Last Edit: April 05, 2024, 11:41:56 am by Zebidee »
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Daniel B.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2024, 02:44:16 pm »






I've sent a PM and want to get one of these bad boys!

I'm not a new member by any means but you had mentioned to make a post, so this is that. Just in case.


I'm currently assembling some v1.94 units with blue sync indicator LEDs, so I will be sure to add extra one for you. Will respond to you directly.

As reported earlier, I had a nasty accident. I'd summarise it as like being punched in the side of the chest by a god wearing knuckledusters. Not sure which god, but then they sure didn't give an F about me. It still hurts. Has softened me up, slowed me down, just a little. Every day gets a little bit better, bit will probably be a couple more weeks until I'm feeling great.

Anyways, production is now on again (to meet backorders first). I will get them out over the next few days.

Here is a quick pic of the GreenAntz v1.94 with sync LED. Promise to get some better pics out soon.

Was this the bottle you fell on? That would be a terrible, terrible thing to experience. At my old age (39) I think I would need a month or 2 to recover, easily. Keep applying the tiger balm/biofreeze/menthol of your choice and try to stretch it out as much as you can, that is one thing that will help. Cold at night, heat in the morning to get them moving if it's worse after rest or prolonged use.

I will work with you in PM, but please sincerely take care ZBD!
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Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2024, 08:52:12 pm »
Was this the bottle you fell on? That would be a terrible, terrible thing to experience. At my old age (39) I think I would need a month or 2 to recover, easily. Keep applying the tiger balm/biofreeze/menthol of your choice and try to stretch it out as much as you can, that is one thing that will help. Cold at night, heat in the morning to get them moving if it's worse after rest or prolonged use.


Yes, you know the type of injury, and yes mornings are the worst. After a couple of hours it isn't too bad. Then, when I get tired, it gets worse again. In addition to stretching etc., I also swim (very gently) every day and get a therapeutic massage every few days.

The really painful aspect of this kind of injury is the muscles cramping to protect the area.

I did something similar to myself about 20 years ago, when I was a bit younger than you are now. Back then I was a real exerciser, six days a week, and I watched Nicolas Cage's "Con Air" with my (then) wife. There's this scene where he's doing handstand pushups and she asked if I could do them. So of course I learned how to do them (foolish me, apparently Nic Cage was cheating in the movie).

So yeah, a couple weeks later I was traveling for work, was late and in a hotel room, but I still wanted some exercise. So I did some handstand pushups, but I was too tired and my legs came down too far on one side. I corrected myself, but too late, the damage was done. I'd crushed the meat between my ribs and partially dislocated them from my spine. Very painful.

This is the exercise I am talking about. Do not do it. The physio treating me kept telling me how dangerous it is, she worried I'd have an aneurysm or something. Never again.

https://www.bigbendsc.com/blog/at-home-exercise-strict-handstand-push-up



It is a more entertaining story than sleeping and falling onto a bottle.
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Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #73 on: April 29, 2024, 01:10:04 pm »
Updates, updates!

I completed my first real batch GreenAntz v1.94 VGA units. These have all been fully cleaned, trimmed, tested and calibrated. I decided to take a photo of the "team" while they were together.





About half of these are already on the way to people that pre-purchased them. I cannot thank you all enough for your patience over the past few weeks as I have been recovering from injury - it knocked me about a lot and slowed my work to a crawl. I will be in touch with you all directly soon with tracking numbers.

With the batch complete, this also means I still have a few spare units right now if anybody wants one.

Most of these v1.94 units use a blue LED for sync, as some people I asked preferred that, though I did experiment and make a couple with red sync LEDs too. Just wanted to see how they looked. All the units I've just sent out have a blue LED.

 


There's a lot of customisation on this V1.94 PCB now. Especially in terms of the sync auto-switching and the sync LED, which I installed where no LED was ever originally intended! It took some practice and trial-and-error to get it both working right and looking nice and neat.





BTW - For those wondering, I am feeling a lot better now, these past few days I've "turned the corner" with my injury, though I suspect I'll continue to get more ordinary back and other pain for quite a while yet. Swimming every day really helps.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #74 on: April 29, 2024, 09:54:06 pm »
Can u send me tracking just so I can keep an eye?

it's no problem (the delay) Your health is more important and you never once made me worry I made a bad decision. I'm excited for the blue LED!!!

To all reading, I'm going to try to learn Fusion3D to design a case for Greenantz and will make the STL file public or will print for you for price of plastic and shipping!!!!!

It's the kick in the ass i need to learn this software. If this guy and his buddy could create a dope ass transcoder - I could learn 3d modelling for 3dprinting right? RIGHT!

I work 80 hours a week 6 days a week, It could take awhwile.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #75 on: April 29, 2024, 11:20:22 pm »
Can u send me tracking just so I can keep an eye?

it's no problem (the delay) Your health is more important and you never once made me worry I made a bad decision. I'm excited for the blue LED!!!

To all reading, I'm going to try to learn Fusion3D to design a case for Greenantz and will make the STL file public or will print for you for price of plastic and shipping!!!!!

It's the kick in the ass i need to learn this software. If this guy and his buddy could create a dope ass transcoder - I could learn 3d modelling for 3dprinting right? RIGHT!

I work 80 hours a week 6 days a week, It could take awhwile.

I think you should learn 3D modelling for 3D printing!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2024, 02:35:40 pm by Ond »

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2024, 10:18:35 am »
New version looks promising. My older version from last year though, is exhibiting yellow tinting now. I've ruled out cables, the graphics card (R7 370) and TV. Was working flawlessly till a couple months ago then it became frequent. After inspecting the board checking all the parts to see if anything looked out of sorts, I tried an air can on the main chip and starting to think its heat issue? Attached a gif 

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #77 on: June 03, 2024, 07:06:01 pm »
Welcome to BYOAC!

Sorry to hear about your problems! It certainly looks like a connection issue on the Pb (blue) channel, or maybe the blue part of the RGB input. Not quite clear sure which from the gif.

Firstly, I will replace it with a new one for you, no worries. I'd appreciate it though if you can send the old back to me, so I can do some diagnostics on it.

Before that though, try disconnecting the Pb output cable (middle, usually blue) to see what difference that makes, and also try lightly tapping/poking (with a pencil or similar) the board in different places to see if it makes the signal come back at all. Try swapping cables around

Inspect the board closely, top and bottom, and clean any gunk off carefully (ideally with some isopropyl and an old toothbrush and/or Q-tip). It is possible that a loose or "cold" solder join has developed over time and/or with temperature changes, physical movement etc.

Check the blue 75R termination resistor, marked with a "B", near "left" end of main IC, near two aluminium electrolytic "can" capacitors. On the underside, it makes part of the GreenAntz logo "face". This resistor being loose could create your problem.

Do you get power from the PC via USB?

Some thoughts:

- Try some decent shielded-core component/DVD video cables. It looks like you are using AV cable (yellow/red/white) which will likely work in a pinch, but is not really the same. It is typically not shielded or rated for component video.

- Install the supplied PCB offset legs (L-shaped, white). Even if you aren't installing into a cab or box, these help protect the underside and give you something to hold it with.

- GreenAntz is fairly tough but has no box. Handle with care, keep it in a reasonably protected area to avoid inadvertent damage. Only hold the unit by the outside edges or PCB legs. Parts are recessed from the short edges and corners to make this easier.

- Electronic chips can be sensitive to static charges, like from carpet or a sweater. Discharge yourself before close handling. When I test them (before attaching legs), I rest them on some clean paper or cardboard.

Your compressed air tests are interesting. It may also indicate a loose connection. In general, I'd be surprised if the colour matrix chip (the "main" or long one) is failing - they are fairly resilient and generate very little heat normally. The video amplifier chip (smaller, square, 14 legs) runs warmer, but even that is barely noticeable after hours of operation. Do the ICs feel hot at all? Test with a pinky finger on top (ground yourself first, touch a metal frame or something), should not be any hotter than "barely warm", a few degrees above room temp. If either chip is running hot, it suggests a short or something else is wrong, disconnect immediately.

Easier still, just exchange it for a new v1.94, they are better anyway :D


New version looks promising. My older version from last year though, is exhibiting yellow tinting now. I've ruled out cables, the graphics card (R7 370) and TV. Was working flawlessly till a couple months ago then it became frequent. After inspecting the board checking all the parts to see if anything looked out of sorts, I tried an air can on the main chip and starting to think its heat issue? Attached a gif
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #78 on: June 04, 2024, 05:10:46 pm »
Thanks Zebidee. Will give all of your recommendations a try. Will pm you my tests results and pictures as to not hijack this thread. Love your work and I Appreciate the help!

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2024, 10:42:28 am »
Working on prototyping a box for this fine piece of circuitry for submission. This is just the broad strokes for now, will be breaking out the calipers for fine tuning all clearances, than moving on to aesthetics. :)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2024, 10:46:32 am by Naponic »

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2024, 04:04:57 pm »
That's very impressive work Naponic! Can you share the file when complete?

How do you go with getting the VGA/USB/3xRCA ports into those holes? I imagine it's a tight fit. Does the plastic have a bit of flexibility to make that easier?

FYI, the GreenAntz PCBs are the same size across different versions, and the ports and mounting holes are all in the same places.

The PCB design/layout accommodates at least 1.5mm clearance along the short sides, meaning a box design could be a shaped hollow tube with C-shaped slide guides on left/right sides. The PCB just slides in, like a drawer. I imagine this would be easy to design and print. Then just add flat faceplates (with holes for ports & screws) front and back. The new sync LED intrudes upon that clearance slightly, but still leaves > 1mm free.

Ond & Daniel seem to be working on something too. I don't know how far that's gone? I imagine Ond is pretty busy with his virtual pinball project & other stuff.

I have no 3D printing skills! Sure I'd love it though, as obviously I enjoy creative modelling/design stuff.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2024, 06:01:58 pm »

Ond & Daniel seem to be working on something too. I don't know how far that's gone? I imagine Ond is pretty busy with his virtual pinball project & other stuff.


I considered drawing up an enclosure but as Naponic is now working on it I'll let it be for now. Personally I have no real need for one myself as I'm just mounting them inside the cabinet on standoffs.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #82 on: June 05, 2024, 06:16:47 pm »

How do you go with getting the VGA/USB/3xRCA ports into those holes? I imagine it's a tight fit. Does the plastic have a bit of flexibility to make that easier?
You don't.

For a top and bottom cover design, the seam between the top and bottom should probably pass through the center of the RCA jacks.

The VGA port hole has flat sides so no problem there.

The USB connector should be shallow enough to slide inside the case or have the seam between the covers dip down at that connector with a little additional reinforcement on the top cover for the part that sticks down.

Another feature to consider adding is wire holes for the alternate power supply terminals mentioned here.



The PCB design/layout accommodates at least 1.5mm clearance along the short sides, meaning a box design could be a shaped hollow tube with C-shaped slide guides on left/right sides. The PCB just slides in, like a drawer. I imagine this would be easy to design and print. Then just add flat faceplates (with holes for ports & screws) front and back. The new sync LED intrudes upon that clearance slightly, but still leaves > 1mm free.
That's one possible approach, but the hard part about it is the hardware for attaching the covers.

Here's a preliminary design I did a while back for the KADE MiniConsole+ that could be easily adapted for GreenAntz.
- The hole in the "diving board" tab lines up with the mounting hole on the other cover.

OpenSCAD code if anyone wants to play around with it.
Code: [Select]
// KADE miniConsole+ case (WIP)

// Variables are estimates -- awaiting accurate measurements.  Port openings have extra wiggle room.

/////////////////////////////
// Define variables
/////////////////////////////
screwdiameter = 4;    // Screw hole diameter
PCBwidth = 60;        // PCB width
PCBlength = 80;       // PCB length
PCBthick = 1.8;       // PCB thickness
componentheight = 22; // Component height
USBoffset = 10;       // Distance from PCB edge to USB
RJ45offset = 8;       // Distance from PCB edge to RJ45
DSUBoffset = 9;       // Distance from PCB edge to left side of D-Sub15
SecHalfMove = 60;     // Y-axis distance to move the second half of the case

// Number of fragments (polygon sides) used to render a full circle.
    $fn = 180; // Default = 180  Typical range = 6 - 360
    // 6 will render a circular hole as a hexagon, 8 will render a circular hole as an octagon.
    // Lower the number for faster rendering, raise the number for smoother rendering.

/////////////////////////////
//  Make the part
/////////////////////////////

/////////////////////////////
// RJ-45 and USB side of case
/////////////////////////////
difference(){ // Case body minus hollow, PCB slot, RJ-45 and USB holes
    // Case body
    hull() {
    translate([PCBwidth+14, 8+PCBthick+componentheight, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cylinder(h=2+PCBlength/2, d=4, center=true);
    // Upper right cylinder

    translate([14, 8+PCBthick+componentheight, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cylinder(h=2+PCBlength/2, d=4, center=true);
    // Upper left cylinder

    translate([PCBwidth+14, 2, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cube([4,4,2+PCBlength/2], center=true);
    // Lower right cube

    translate([14, 2, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cube([4,4,2+PCBlength/2], center=true);
    // Lower left cube

    } // End case body
//
// Holes to remove from case
    // Upper hollow
    color("green") translate([14+PCBwidth/2, 6+(PCBthick+componentheight)/2, 5+PCBlength/4])
    cube([PCBwidth-6,PCBthick+componentheight,5+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // Lower hollow
    color("green") translate([14+PCBwidth/2, 4, 5+PCBlength/4])
    cube([PCBwidth-6,3,5+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // PCB slot
    color("white") translate([14+PCBwidth/2, 4+PCBthick, 5+PCBlength/4])
    cube([PCBwidth+0.2,PCBthick,5+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // USB hole
    color("blue") translate([7+PCBwidth-USBoffset, 9.7+(PCBthick*1.5), 5])
    cube([14,12,12], center=true);

    // RJ45 hole
    color("brown") translate([22+RJ45offset, 11.7+(PCBthick*1.5), 5])
    cube([16,16,12], center=true);

     } // End case body minus hollow, PCB slot, RJ-45 and USB holes
//
difference(){ // Left mount tab minus screw hole
    // Left mount tab
    translate([6, 1.5, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cube([12, 3, 2+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // Screw hole
    translate([6, 2.5, (2+PCBlength/2)-(PCBlength/2-8)])
    rotate([90, 0, 0])
    cylinder(h=10, d=screwdiameter, center=true);

} // End left mount tab minus screw hole
//
difference(){ // Right lower mount tab minus screw hole
    // Right lower mount tab
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 1.5, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cube([12, 3, 2+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // Screw hole
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 2.5, (2+PCBlength/2)-(PCBlength/2-8)])
    rotate([90, 0, 0])
    cylinder(h=10, d=screwdiameter, center=true);

} // End right lower mount tab minus screw hole
//
difference(){ // Right upper mount tab minus screw holes
    // Right upper mount tab
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 4.5, 2+PCBlength/2])
    cube([12, 3, 4+PCBlength], center=true);

    // Screw hole 1
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 2.5, (2+PCBlength/2)-(PCBlength/2-8)])
    rotate([90, 0, 0])
    cylinder(h=10, d=screwdiameter, center=true);

    // Screw hole 2
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 2.5, (2+PCBlength/2)+(PCBlength/2-8)])
    rotate([90, 0, 0])
    cylinder(h=10, d=screwdiameter, center=true);

} // End right lower mount tab minus screw holes
//
/////////////////////////////
// DSub15 side of case
/////////////////////////////
difference(){ // Case body minus hollow, PCB slot, and DSub15 hole
    // Case body
    hull() {
    translate([PCBwidth+14, 8+PCBthick+componentheight+SecHalfMove, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cylinder(h=2+PCBlength/2, d=4, center=true);
    // Upper right cylinder

    translate([14, 8+PCBthick+componentheight+SecHalfMove, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cylinder(h=2+PCBlength/2, d=4, center=true);
    // Upper left cylinder

    translate([PCBwidth+14, 2+SecHalfMove, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cube([4,4,2+PCBlength/2], center=true);
    // Lower right cube

    translate([14, 2+SecHalfMove, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cube([4,4,2+PCBlength/2], center=true);
    // Lower left cube

    } // End case body
//
// Holes to remove from case
    // Upper hollow
    color("green") translate([14+PCBwidth/2, 6+(PCBthick+componentheight)/2+SecHalfMove, 5+PCBlength/4])
    cube([PCBwidth-6,PCBthick+componentheight,5+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // Lower hollow
    color("green") translate([14+PCBwidth/2, 4+SecHalfMove, 5+PCBlength/4])
    cube([PCBwidth-6,3,5+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // PCB slot
    color("white") translate([14+PCBwidth/2, 4+PCBthick+SecHalfMove, 5+PCBlength/4])
    cube([PCBwidth+0.2,PCBthick,5+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // DSub15 hole
    color("blue") translate([-6+PCBwidth-DSUBoffset, 10.7+(PCBthick*1.5)+SecHalfMove, 5])
    cube([40,14,12], center=true);

     } // End case body minus hollow, PCB slot, and DSub15 hole
//
difference(){ // Left mount tab minus screw hole
    // Left mount tab
    translate([6, 1.5+SecHalfMove, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cube([12, 3, 2+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // Screw hole
    translate([6, 2.5+SecHalfMove, (2+PCBlength/2)-(PCBlength/2-8)])
    rotate([90, 0, 0])
    cylinder(h=10, d=screwdiameter, center=true);

} // End left mount tab minus screw hole
//
difference(){ // Right lower mount tab minus screw hole
    // Right lower mount tab
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 1.5+SecHalfMove, 1+PCBlength/4])
    cube([12, 3, 2+PCBlength/2], center=true);

    // Screw hole
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 2.5+SecHalfMove, (2+PCBlength/2)-(PCBlength/2-8)])
    rotate([90, 0, 0])
    cylinder(h=10, d=screwdiameter, center=true);

} // End right lower mount tab minus screw hole
//
difference(){ // Right upper mount tab minus screw holes
    // Right upper mount tab
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 4.5+SecHalfMove, 2+PCBlength/2])
    cube([12, 3, 4+PCBlength], center=true);

    // Screw hole 1
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 2.5+SecHalfMove, (2+PCBlength/2)-(PCBlength/2-8)])
    rotate([90, 0, 0])
    cylinder(h=10, d=screwdiameter, center=true);

    // Screw hole 2
    translate([22+PCBwidth, 2.5+SecHalfMove, (2+PCBlength/2)+(PCBlength/2-8)])
    rotate([90, 0, 0])
    cylinder(h=10, d=screwdiameter, center=true);

} // End right upper mount tab minus screw holes
//


Scott

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #83 on: June 05, 2024, 07:07:00 pm »
Made the case see-through so I can see what I'm doing... doesn't look bad lol.

Made the holes in the middle so there's no wedging of anything. Drop, screw, and go. Still mostly visual guesswork and tape measuring clearances, I need digital calipers. Downloading random circuit parts from GrabCAB and double checking IRL has saved a lot of time.


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #84 on: June 05, 2024, 08:14:58 pm »
Looks great, Naponic.   :cheers:

Two other features you might want to add are a hole for the optional alternate power wires mentioned here and two holes so you can see the LEDs.



I need digital calipers.
Yep.  Digital or dial.  Both are great choices.
Vernier calipers suck.  :puke


Scott
EDIT: Forgot to mention that another case variant to consider is for the SCART version with audio jacks mentioned here.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2024, 08:42:53 pm by PL1 »

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #85 on: June 05, 2024, 11:10:43 pm »
EDIT: Forgot to mention that another case variant to consider is for the SCART version with audio jacks mentioned here.



Thanks so much for the suggestions Scott. Yes, SCART... and console users are more likely to want SCART, therefore more likely to want a box (as it will likely be going near a TV in a games room, not inside a cab).

BYOACers almost all want VGA versions, I haven't even built any V1.94 units in SCART form yet. I haven't promoted the latest versions past BYOAC. But once I include the everyone else (y'know, non-members), overall maybe 20-25% of people want SCART, so important to include them.

FYI, the installed SCART jack measures 16mm high x 47mm wide (top); 44.5mm wide (bottom). Those width measurements are taken from the outsides of the curved corners. The white lines marked on PCB show the correct footprint and precisely line up with where the SCART jack goes.

The extra audio passthrough RCA jacks (red & white) are the same height and same diameter as the YPbPr jacks (you can hold a ruler up and it goes through the middle of all five jacks). They are all spaced apart by approximately the same amount too (~14mm). The only difference is the audio jacks don't stick out quite as far, are about 2mm shorter than the YPbPr jacks. Again, the white lines marked on the PCB footprint show the correct placement.

Those measurements are taken with a metal ruler & eyeballs, not calipers of any kind, but I took them many times.

Holes for LEDs might not work, as much of the light would be dispersed before even reaching the holes. Extending the LED legs is not a very practical option. One way to do it would be with optic fibre tubing, which would capture the light and direct it (mostly) toward the hole. Sounds fussy and expensive, but maybe not, I really don't know.

EDIT: a little online searching reveals fibre optic tubes are actually not very expensive. Even so, I'm not sure how well they'd work, some testing would be required. The GreenAntz 3mm "bright" LEDs run much dimmer than their actual ratings, drawing less than 1mA each - they only need to be bright enough to see, not to see by, and not bright enough to make you squint or distract from gaming. Generally speaking, green power LED uses a 50K current limiting resistor, and the blue sync LED uses a 10K resistor (these values are only indicative - actual colours and resistor values may vary).

Transparent case may just be easier.

Thanks again naponic, looking very good.
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #86 on: June 06, 2024, 01:43:01 am »
Thank you for all the hard work and updates you've put into this project! Also loving the enclosures I'm seeing above. Sent a PM on purchasing a unit if there are still any spots available. Cheers  :cheers:

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2024, 02:57:20 am »
FYI, the installed SCART jack measures 16mm high x 47mm wide (top); 44.5mm wide (bottom). Those width measurements are taken from the outsides of the curved corners. The white lines marked on PCB show the correct footprint and precisely line up with where the SCART jack goes.
If the datasheet for the connector doesn't show the radius of the curved corner, the tool you need to measure the curve is called a fillet gauge.
- There are lots of 3d printable models of them on Thingiverse or you can make custom ones like I did here.



Holes for LEDs might not work, as much of the light would be dispersed before even reaching the holes. Extending the LED legs is not a very practical option. One way to do it would be with optic fibre tubing, which would capture the light and direct it (mostly) toward the hole. Sounds fussy and expensive, but maybe not, I really don't know.
"Transparent" 3d print filament is usually just somewhat translucent so dim LEDs might be hard to see unless the case is so thin that it it will be too weak.
- My 3d printer came with a sample of translucent PLA.  Printed some parts for PBJ with it.  They turned out OK for his setup, but it was far from transparent.

If I was modding a case like Naponic's for LED holes, I'd put in 45 degree funnel-like holes (6mm i.d. hole at the bottom) that stopped just a bit above the 3mm LEDs.
- This gives you fairly good viewing angles, almost all printers should be handle a 45 degree overhang, and you don't have to worry about special filaments or light pipes.
- Bonus points for the holes looking like the entrance to an ant hill.   :lol

Transparent case may just be easier.
Many people won't want to buy a 1000g roll of specialized filament just to print a single 100g(?) case.

Probably better to design a case that works with any type of filament.   ;D


Scott

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #88 on: June 06, 2024, 06:27:52 am »
All good point Scott. I really don't know 3D printing, and I'm sure what you say about transparent stuff is true. Not sure I'd like funnel-holes for the LEDs though. Am worried that they would have to be pretty long funnels, around 1cm or longer, to get down to the LEDs. On the other hand, maybe that would look fine.

I'm thinking some 3mm optic fibre tube, or maybe a bit wider, and a bit of removable white heat-shrink over the LED end, and the other end glued into a custom hole in the case. When installing into the case, you'd need to slip the heat-shrink caps over the LEDs. I've seen similar in PC case designs for power/HDD LEDs, even some pretty old ones.

Anyway, the point of 3D custom printing is that people can modify to their own tastes. A good basic shell is a great place to start. No need to get caught up in the fiddly details too much (yet).

Naturally, I'm also thinking ahead to the next stage where I'm getting making cases made in quantities and sold as an optional extra.
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #89 on: June 27, 2024, 03:16:23 am »
I'm still failing to make time for this fun stuff but I'm stoked to see this continue while I only have time to watch occassionally!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #90 on: July 04, 2024, 10:48:16 pm »
I'm away travelling right now, but thinking about printing off a cover when I return - if no one else does?

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #91 on: July 04, 2024, 11:23:46 pm »
Yes, do it!

Naponic has done some cool designs, but having printer/filament issues.

If we can come up with one or more "proofable" designs I can host them on my google share.

I'm away travelling right now, but thinking about printing off a cover when I return - if no one else does?
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2024, 02:32:25 am »
No worries Zeb, right now I'm  in Asia myself. In a week or so we'll work together on it.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 03:29:08 am by Ond »

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2024, 11:41:41 pm »
First enclosure prototype is printing.


This version includes a portal for the LED.

There will be a few tweaks and adjustments after the first one, lets see...

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #94 on: July 17, 2024, 01:12:37 am »
Very exciting!

Your GreenAntz doesn't have the v1.94 sync LED unfortunately.

Would you like to use some proper/original GreenAntz logo art? I can share files with you.
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #95 on: July 17, 2024, 08:43:34 am »
Very exciting!

Your GreenAntz doesn't have the v1.94 sync LED unfortunately.

Would you like to use some proper/original GreenAntz logo art? I can share files with you.
It was fun designing the case. It's a work in progress now. The first print let me adjust some spacing and fitting issues. I'll play around with the design until I get a print that I'm happy with.  The original artwork would be handy once I have the enclosure model geometry sorted.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #96 on: July 19, 2024, 01:02:46 am »
I didn't like the boxy first version so I did a more pleasing (to me) curvy version.


Here are the results printed in clear filament:





Some small adjustments for screws to fit, mainly just a slight countersunk size and shape for M3 self tapping screws and maybe a fraction more room around the power cable plug head. Other than that - good to go!  ;D Separate holes for the RCA sockets is not a good idea, there just ain't enough room on that fitting!

Zeb, if you want I can add a logo. Basically just a thinly printed black/green badge would look good.  I recommend a single badge to keep things simple. The Ant head is a good choice. Keep in mind that filament printers don't do fine filigree work or very thin parts too well. Maybe send me a Google drive link for artwork and I'll have a look?

If you want another final sample print in different colors let me know. I get filament way cheaper than most folks so no big deal. Cost for the STL files? Hmm let me see here, my hourly rate is $200US * 5Hrs minus the BYOAC member discount which comes to a total of... $0.00.  Hey, that's cheap!   :laugh2: Ok, I have to get back to some PCB crossover design now.

 :cheers:


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #97 on: July 19, 2024, 02:46:01 am »
Ond, that already looks great!

I too prefer curves in the right places, no need for hard edges/corners. Sure, it is a box, but it doesn't have to look boxy.

So that is how the "clear" comes out - basically a slightly opaque white. But that looks good too, and the power LED is visible through it. Which means the design would also accommodate v1.94 with a sync LED.

I concur with you about the logo too - simple is better. Will assemble a modest zip package of files and PM you the link in next couple of days. You can take what you need from that.

Nice work! Thank you! Love the members price <3
Check out my completed projects!


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #98 on: July 20, 2024, 02:12:12 am »
Great work on that Ond.
Always nice to see the product of someone with a great mind and eye for design.
I'm still trying to catch up on projects among crises here but I'm looking forward to my next raster build!
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools! I can fix it.

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #99 on: July 20, 2024, 06:26:45 pm »
Ond, that already looks great!

I too prefer curves in the right places, no need for hard edges/corners. Sure, it is a box, but it doesn't have to look boxy.

So that is how the "clear" comes out - basically a slightly opaque white. But that looks good too, and the power LED is visible through it. Which means the design would also accommodate v1.94 with a sync LED.

I concur with you about the logo too - simple is better. Will assemble a modest zip package of files and PM you the link in next couple of days. You can take what you need from that.

Nice work! Thank you! Love the members price <3

Thanks Zeb, yes the artwork would be a nice finishing touch. I've made some final adjustments (see below) after realizing there is in fact room for individual RCA port holes. For some reason I was thinking about the outer plug plastic sheath diameter's not having enough room instead of the metal plug parts.

Great work on that Ond.
Always nice to see the product of someone with a great mind and eye for design.
I'm still trying to catch up on projects among crises here but I'm looking forward to my next raster build!

Thanks bobby, you've become one of my fav builders here. Love your vector AND raster work! I hope you do keep building,  I always find inspiration in your work.
It's just cold here right now so I prefer working on the computer doing design stuff until the weather warms up again and I can get back to cabinet building.
 :cheers:

As usual I can't rest up on a project (even a mini one) until I've tweaked it to my satisfaction. I think it is adequate now. I've tested with readily available screws and the GreenAntz board that I have. The printed parts should fit nicely together and screws should go in without needing a torque wrench  :lol The 3D print design should be somewhere near PL1's best practice criteria?






« Last Edit: July 20, 2024, 09:48:38 pm by Ond »

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #100 on: July 20, 2024, 10:16:41 pm »
The printed parts should fit nicely together and screws should go in without needing a torque wrench  :lol The 3D print design should be somewhere near PL1's best practice criteria?
Great work as always, Ond!   :notworthy:
- That design should print fine on any printer with no supports or raft/brim.

Looks like it would be easy to add four heat-set threaded inserts for the screws that hold the top and bottom together and/or rubber feet (screw through the center, NOT adhesive!  Mouser P/N 534-723 are the best ones I've found, but you might need M4 or M5 hardware) if one were inclined to do so.

The only thing I see that you might consider beefing up is the alignment tabs.  They wil be strong enough once the lid screws are inserted, but are thin enough that they might break if there is some lateral force applied during assembly.  If they were taller, it would definitely be an issue.

To spitball an idea to make the case design a bit more versatile, a sneaky feature that you could add is three holes per LED for people who want to use non-translucent filament for the case.  That would allow the light-pipe idea that Zebidee mentioned earlier through a hole over the LED and mount a separate logo on the other two holes.  Maybe design an alternate logo that mounts over all three holes for people who don't care about the LEDs.   :dunno


Scott

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2024, 07:53:02 am »
Thanks Scott, I've taken your suggestions into consideration. I've added more of the alignment tabs to increase the strength along the seam. I'm open to further refining the design to include some of the other things but I'm also mindful of keeping the parts count to a minimum to make it as accessible to everyone as possible.

Zebidee kindly provided some of his original artwork that went onto the GreenAntz PCB. I've taken the most workable of that in terms of 3D printing and crafted it a bit for a single snap on logo.  Some concept renders to show color combo's:


The logo printed in green with snap on posts:


An example case printed in black with the logo attached.  It's a good tight snap on fit, a bit of glue on each post would make it permanent.


Adding holes for light pipes re: the Sync and power LED is no problem. I'll leave that to Zeb to ponder for a bit. One thing to keep in mind is light pipes are not very effective with low luminescence LEDS. They work just OK with reasonably bright ones.

 :cheers:


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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #102 on: July 22, 2024, 04:04:31 pm »
The logo looks great.  Exactly how I pictured attaching it to the case.   :cheers:

I'm also mindful of keeping the parts count to a minimum to make it as accessible to everyone as possible.
I figured that the threaded inserts and rubber feet would be optional.

If you add the chamber for the heat set inserts and someone doesn't use them, will the screws still be able to engage well enough or should anyone wanting to use inserts drill the chambers for them?

One thing to keep in mind is light pipes are not very effective with low luminescence LEDS. They work just OK with reasonably bright ones.
Agreed.  That and keeping down the parts count is why I suggested the "light funnel" idea earlier.

Perhaps more of a slightly tapered (5-10 degrees?) "light chimney" would be acceptable or maybe add alignment divots on the inside of the case over the LEDs so someone can drill out the holes if they want.
-------------------------
If someone wants to add screw terminals for an alternate power source, do you want to add wire holes or a removable panel?

If you don't want to have the holes on all cases, maybe make recessed alignment divots on the inside of the case so anyone wanting to use this feature can drill them out.  Same for two screwdriver holes in the top so you can tighen/loosen the screw terminals without removing the lid.




Scott

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #103 on: July 22, 2024, 11:14:57 pm »
Ond, the logo inset looks fantastic! You turned that around quickly.

How about ventilation slats or holes? GreenAntz doesn't produce a lot of waste heat, but maybe worth thinking about.


If someone wants to add screw terminals for an alternate power source, do you want to add wire holes or a removable panel?

If you don't want to have the holes on all cases, maybe make recessed alignment divots on the inside of the case so anyone wanting to use this feature can drill them out.  Same for two screwdriver holes in the top so you can tighen/loosen the screw terminals without removing the lid.

Thanks for your ideas Scott.

My thoughts about the "alternate power" inputs are: Maybe 1/10 people want to use them, they usually aren't much concerned about a case (because it is going into a cabinet of some kind anyway), and a single "alignment divot" on the side would allow them to drill their own anyway (one small hole is all you need for both wires). No holes needed on top for the screw terminals - anybody with a screwdriver can just remove lid of the case to secure the wires, one-time as needed.

Regarding LEDs, I use 3mm "bright" LEDs that throw light "up" more than "sideways". They run with large current limiting resistors (~50K for the power LED, 10K for the sync LED) to throttle the brightness down to something that won't make you blink or squint in a darkened room. They may be bright enough for a light pipe already, but easy for me to use lower values in future for the current limiting resistors too. Retrofitting lower LED resistors (=> brighter) is fairly easy as you can just run an extra resistor under the PCB, though I don't expect many people would do this.

Worth considering a SCART version too - this could be a breakout panel for the larger SCART input, or a modified build. Less demand overall, but people that want SCART often ask about a case as they are more likely to use GreenAntz with consoles in a lounge room style, console + controllers + TV environment.
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2024, 02:06:35 am »
How about ventilation slats or holes?
Vent slats over the LEDs ==> two birds, one stone.   ;D

a single "alignment divot" on the side would allow them to drill their own anyway (one small hole is all you need for both wires). No holes needed on top for the screw terminals - anybody with a screwdriver can just remove lid of the case to secure the wires, one-time as needed.
Sorry, but I'm gonna strongly disagree on this.

Four divots seems like the best choice -- two for the wires and two for jeweler's screwdrivers.

If you only have one hole for the wire, it has to be large enough to cover both screw terminals.
- The only argument I can make for one large hole is if there is a large enough gap between the case and the screw terminals that the wires might veer off course between entering the case and entering the screw terminal.  How big is that gap, Ond?
- Two smaller (3-4mm) wire holes will look cleaner than one large (9-10mm) wire hole and the smaller holes should better serve as a guide when inserting a wire into the terminal.  If so, smaller holes ==> better fit, form, and function.
- Worst case if two small holes don't work, drill them with a 5mm or 6mm bit then use an exacto knife to turn the two holes into an oval.  You'd be cutting parallel to the print layers so it should be easy.

If someone wants to mount the case on a shelf or wall by adding some simple brackets or Z-shaped mounting legs, it would be much more difficult to remove the lid than to have holes for jeweler's screwdrivers.
- If they aren't using heat-set threaded inserts, every time they take the lid off there is a greater chance that the lid screws are going to strip out.
- Having the option to drill screwdriver holes makes the case much more maintenance-friendly.
- Divots are easy and drilling them is optional.  I can make no argument for not including these two divots.

One other thing that would be nice to add on the outside of the case next to where the wire holes would be drilled is small inset "+" and "-" polarity markings.


Scott
« Last Edit: July 25, 2024, 02:03:15 am by PL1 »

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #105 on: July 24, 2024, 01:59:17 am »
a single "alignment divot" on the side would allow them to drill their own anyway (one small hole is all you need for both wires). No holes needed on top for the screw terminals - anybody with a screwdriver can just remove lid of the case to secure the wires, one-time as needed.
Sorry, but I'm gonna strongly disagree on this.


Sigh. Oh well  :dunno

Long post here. Better go get your popcorn  :drool

Quote
If you only have one hole for the wire, it has to be large enough to cover both screw terminals.
- The only argument I can make for one large hole is if there is a large enough gap between the case and the screw terminals that the wires might veer off course between entering the case and entering the screw terminal.  How big is that gap, Ond?

There is quite a gap - 4 or 5mm at least. Though I'm not sure how thick the case plastic is there. Ond made the case large enough to enclose the VGA port next door, which sticks out a bit.


Quote
- Two smaller (3-4mm) wire holes will look cleaner than one large (9-10mm) wire hole and the smaller holes should better serve as a guide when inserting a wire into the terminal.  If so, smaller holes ==> better fit, form, and function.

Nobody wants a 9-10mm hole, that would be ugly. Who suggested that? Not me.


Quote
- Worst case if two small holes don't work, drill them with a 5mm or 6mm bit then use an exacto knife to turn the two holes into an oval.  You'd be cutting parallel to the print layers so it should be easy.

The screw terminal centres are 5.08mm apart - so centred 3mm holes would leave approximately 2mm separation. 5mm would leave none.


Quote
If someone wants to mount the case on a shelf or wall by adding some simple brackets or Z-shaped mounting legs, it would be much more difficult to remove the lid than to have holes for jeweler's screwdrivers.
- If they aren't using heat-set threaded inserts, every time they take the lid off there is a greater chance that the lid screws are going to strip out.
- Having the option to drill screwdriver holes makes the case much more maintenance-friendly.
- Divots are easy and drilling them is optional.  I can make no argument for not including these two divots.

You win.  :applaud:  Make two divots for top screw holes. Make divots for the wires too. There is no obligation to drill them, guess it can't hurt much, so long as it isn't too ugly.

I believe the use-case is very small. Few people fussy and knowledgeable enough to wall-mount GreenAntz in-case and provide power via alternate input would want to do this, and as designer I would discourage screwing wires into the alt power inputs willy-nilly because of the unnecessary risks (see below).

You really only have to connect the wires once, so ease-of-access to top screws is really not that important.

Here's something deliberately not mentioned before: access to the adjustment pots for luma and Pr. Because mostly you don't *need* to twiddle them, it doesn't really matter that you may have to take the case lid off to do so. That, and I see no reason to make holes (or even divots) that will encourage people to play with them (they will likely only ruin the calibration I painstakingly did on my oscilloscope before sending it out). I consider this an advantage to having a case. I feel the same way, even more so, about the alt power screw terminals.

With that in mind, please consider these things you may have never thought of before:
- IMHO one hole for two wires looks better, is sturdier, safer and more practical than two unsecured twig-thin wires that can be easily pulled out.
- There is no need for the wires to come in right where that screw terminal block is - that hole can be wherever, and wires just run down to the inputs.
- The blue 5.08mm screw terminal connector pictured fits perfectly, but doesn't come as default standard, you have to buy or supply it separately (if you discuss your need and ask when ordering, I'll throw one in for free if I have any spares). Because the spacing is common if unofficial "standard", many PCB connectors would fit. I have two types here, but the blue looks nicer.
- You could also choose to just solder the wires directly into the input holes provided on the PCB, or use some other standard connector. I left this for the tinkerer.
- I'm happy to discourage people from casually connecting wires to the alt power input. Because getting the polarity swapped would likely fry the GreenAntz, or at least the voltage regulator. If you hook up your own non-reversible connector, you both avoid risk and make life easier for yourself.

All of this sours me to the hole idea (pun intended).

I also have to ask (rhetorically),.... Why would anybody go to the effort of wall-mounting GreenAntz in a case, given that by naked default it comes with free PCB offset legs for mounting inside a cabinet? Where you can't see it, and it is already protected from dust? Sure, there must be an edge case, but the numbers would be very small.

Assuming someone wants to do all this anyway, why wouldn't they just put a two-way non-reversible molex connector (or similar) on the wires to make it easy to disconnect? That's exactly what I did myself when wall-mounting a GreenAntz in my own cabinet. Its easier than finding a small screwdriver to unscrew the terminals, having to put your whole head inside the cab and bang it on the CRT neck coming back out (this happened to me twice! Owww!), or accidentally swapping the wires. It even makes cabling less messy. I'm getting older and finding it harder and harder to crawl into tight spaces, so will do anything I can to make life easier.

If I was to do it again, on a GreenAntz with a case, I'd cut a single hole (wherever I please) for both wires and run them through to the inputs, using as much length as needed. I might use a rubber grommet for the hole, maybe a cable tie or something to prevent the wires from being pulled out. Then use an external non-reversible two-way connector. Exact arrangements might vary, but point is that top holes for screw terminals would be unnecessary.

This is safest IMO, as it discourages fiddling with the power inputs and minimises opportunity for someone to get the polarity mixed up. This is a real concern for me, and I've investigated ways to mitigate the risk, but the most obvious solution (putting a schottky diode in series on the 5v input) causes a voltage drop of ~.4v, which is too much for reliable quality operation. There are more complicated solutions, but they will have to wait for future versions.

Here are some well considered thoughts: GreenAntz was designed with arcade tinkerers in mind, so case was never the priority. People that like to tinker are less interested in a case. People that don't tinker are more interested in a case. Strong correlation. I know this because I've sold many units, and while everyone has their own story, it is mostly true. Sure, there are occasional exceptions (like Ond, for example) who want it all, and good on them, but that is what I mostly see. On top of this, only 1/10 people have interest in alt power, more than half of those choose to use USB anyway after I talk it through with them, and NONE of these people have ever expressed special interest in a case. None.

Crunching those numbers leaves me somewhere vanishingly close to zero.

Quote
One other thing that would be nice to add on the outside of the case next to where the wire holes would be drilled is small inset "+" and "-" polarity markings.


Totally agree - also mark as 5v max input
« Last Edit: July 25, 2024, 05:05:09 am by Zebidee »
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Ond

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #106 on: July 24, 2024, 05:24:40 am »
I've made one further modification to the enclosure design, that is some ventilation holes at either end as shown;


I will need to leave this as is for a while to turn my attention to other more pressing projects. I'll provide the 3 STL files to Zebidee.

 :cheers:

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #107 on: July 27, 2024, 12:22:53 am »
That looks fantastic! Love the green. Thank you very much Ond for your time and expertise.   :cheers:

As the combined file size is still fairly small, I have simply attached them here as a zip.

No changes have been made. I have not checked the files myself, I assume they are good. If you want to add features yourself, do it.

In terms of legalities: Intellectual property for the enclosure itself belongs to Ond. He's made it for community benefit, so here it is, free for you to use. If you want to do something commercial or otherwise special with it, you'll need to talk to him. However:

The GreenAntz name and head logo, and any elements containing the logo or its parts or their shapes (including the negative space on the lid), may only be used or reproduced for personal purposes that directly relate to an official GreenAntz product originally purchased from myself or my authorised representative. Use of the GreenAntz name and logo etc. for any other purpose, whether commercial, educational, non-profit or whatever, is not permitted. Reproduction in bulk for any purpose is not permitted.

Enough mumbo-jumbo. Enjoy. Please post examples of your 3D printing here 8)
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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #108 on: September 08, 2024, 02:25:44 pm »
Hello from Ohio! How can I purchase this RGB to Component greatness called the GreenAntz! I have this crt SDTV i want to hook my Arcade PCBs to

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #109 on: September 15, 2024, 12:40:26 am »
Hello Ohio! Sorry, missed your post. Haven't been haunting this forum too closely past couple of weeks.

Normally people PM me - now that you've made a post, you can send PMs.

I have recently finished a small batch so have a small number of VGA GreenAntz units available.



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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #110 on: October 30, 2024, 02:56:21 am »
Hello, New to the forum ran into your product looking for this exact solution(needing Jamma CGA to Component!). I will be needing 2 will send you a PM.  :)

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2025, 09:42:50 am »
are you still selling these by chance? I'm looking for something cheaper than the $76 it will cost me to get the Wakabavideo Transcoder. Plus shipping take forever for them to get here. shipping would be to Tennessee if you wouldn't mind giving me an out the door price total!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 09:45:30 am by Cadams84 »

Zebidee

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #112 on: February 06, 2025, 05:43:29 pm »
Starting 2025, GreenAntz is $50. The GreenAntz and I are in Thailand - Courier to USA is still only $15.

That assumes no additional costs or taxes or delays that may occur due to Trump's current war on imports. Or anything else. So far I think we are unaffected directly (fingers crossed), though it costs us all in one way or another.

I have a couple of VGA GreenAntz units available, so I'll check them over and send you the best one - I'm currently neck-deep in diagnosing CRT TV horizontal deflection issues, so will send on Monday if you don't mind (Friday morning here). From then USPS say 7-10 days, but I'd say ~2 weeks. So, can't promise it'll be any quicker than the one from NZ.

Talk more via PM.


are you still selling these by chance? I'm looking for something cheaper than the $76 it will cost me to get the Wakabavideo Transcoder. Plus shipping take forever for them to get here. shipping would be to Tennessee if you wouldn't mind giving me an out the door price total!
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hamadam

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Re: GreenAntz RGB to component transcoder
« Reply #113 on: April 12, 2025, 06:31:21 pm »
Thanks for doing this and all the information!