Seriously WTF

[Drnick]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/896069970851141/

I know some of you don't do facebook, so I'll grab some screenshots   Just $2K







I'm sure that the Idea was so much better than reality could ever have been.  It's an intriguing idea badly executed.

[shponglefan]

That's just... no. 

[yotsuya]

I blame this site.

[Osirus23]

Finally, the question on how best to arrange pushbuttons has been answered definitively.

[fallacy]

I don't think you all know what you are looking at but that's nuts. Its all displays, I think even the control panel is a display somehow. I need to see some video of this thing as you change games.

[Hoopz]

How much is the free shipping?

[Mike A]

I don't think you all know what you are looking at but that's nuts. Its all displays, I think even the control panel is a display somehow. I need to see some video of this thing as you change games.

duh.
he just stacked all of the controls on top of a display.

[arfink]

There are parts of this that are actually pretty neat ideas, but the execution isn't quite there. It is clever, but it's also a bit bizarre.

[pbj]

You have all just gotten a glimpse of 2025.

[bobbyb13]

Took me until the 3rd pic to figure out what I was really looking at- 

It looks like it took a lot of work (and $$!) to put together too.

Yeesh-

[Mike A]

Took me until the 3rd pic to figure out what I was really looking at- 

It looks like it took a lot of work (and $$!) to put together too.

Yeesh-

It looks like slapped together dog ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---.

[Howard_Casto]

It's good ideas executed terribly.  When bendable OLED displays become as cheap as regular lcds, I expect to see some of this implemented properly. 

[opt2not]

Heat generation must be insane in this cab.

[Osirus23]

Wondering what its running on. Has at least 4 displays (assuming both sides have them).

[Drnick]

Unfortunately no build log or video of this in action,  No shots of the right hand side so can't say if they did do a screen there.    I think they are doing the right thing selling it to fund their 1up obsession

[arfink]

It's good ideas executed terribly.  When bendable OLED displays become as cheap as regular lcds, I expect to see some of this implemented properly.

I want LCDs I can drill holes in, but we can't have everything.

[Mike A]

The day I would have to use an LCD for an arcade machine will be my last day in the hobby.

[Titchgamer]

That both impresses me and disturbs me in equal measure.

Like I dig the general idea, and the ingenuity involved.

But at the same time its so badly done and looks fugly as hell with a lack of consideration of control position.

[bobbyb13]

The day I would have to use an LCD for an arcade machine will be my last day in the hobby.

Making this 5 times more offensive than it had to be!

That both impresses me and disturbs me in equal measure.

Like I dig the general idea, and the ingenuity involved.

But at the same time its so badly done and looks fugly as hell with a lack of consideration of control position.

I imagine I'm not alone in thinking that trigger stick is close to pounding that screen every time it's pushed up.

[Osirus23]

But at the same time its so badly done and looks fugly as hell with a lack of consideration of control position.

I imagine I'm not alone in thinking that trigger stick is close to pounding that screen every time it's pushed up.

The entire center portion of the CP in front of the player is empty, and all the controls are placed along the edges. I don't get it.

[Titchgamer]

Yeah it just screams bad planning or a lack of knowledge of how the games are played.

[LTC]

Poorly executed, but I don't hate the idea of artwork on lcd screens on the sides. The LCD under the controls is just too much.

[shponglefan]

Poorly executed, but I don't hate the idea of artwork on lcd screens on the sides. The LCD under the controls is just too much.

Makes me wonder if there would be a feasible way to execute that though? I mean, having changeable artwork for the control panel would be pretty cool.

Just... not the way this was done.

[Howard_Casto]

It might be possible, it'd probably just cost a fortune to get made.  I've seen lcds panels cut online and if you do it with the right tools they still work.  With holes you'd probably need a lcd/OLED with a matrix running in each direction for redundancy.  I think they make those but I don't know what happens when you cut a hole in the middle. 

Now barring that there is the option of rear projection.  That'd be a lot easier but you'd run into the same problem this person has.... you can't show graphics through the bottom of the sticks.  Regular projection is also an option but your hands would be in the way (duh). 

It's a fantastic idea.... been wanting to do something like that for the past 20 years.  The tech is almost there.  I mean we could (properly) implement the side art right now.  Those screens on that cab are cheap onn screens... they are around $150 at Walmart and sometimes you can get them even cheaper.  They are super thin so if a person were to properly route out a cavity to inset them in the side of a traditional cab and maybe put plexi over the whole side to give it a nice finish it could be made to look good.  The same goes for the marquee... a tv is the wrong aspect ratio but the excess could be professionally cut off or integrated into the cabinet design somehow.  We've already seen a few mount a lcd vertically to use virtual bezels.... you just hide the extra length of the screen inside the cab.  If it's centered, windows doesn't have a problem running fullscreen games on a vertical screen these days. 

[fallacy]

Makes me wonder if there would be a feasible way to execute that though? I mean, having changeable artwork for the control panel would be pretty cool.

Change art work dude if you had a screen bezel, control panel and side screens, imagine the kind of animation you could do for every game. Example Golden Axe your control panel could be a row of medieval hunts that are all on fire with the smoke billing off and the side panels could be a barbarian chopping off heads and throwing them off to the side. For Pac Man you could have a baseball sized pac man make its way across your control panel up the bezel and around to the side panels with ghosts doing the same thing in endless loops. Basically you could be as creative as you want it to be. There would need to be some kind of screen display software that connects them all together and would allow you to render your graphics as one piece but also show you what it looks like when it is set up as an arcade cabinet… I don't know. It would also need to let you put values to scale each screen piece individually.

[pbj]

Fallacy gets it.

[Howard_Casto]

Well some of that is possible.  Can animations be added to the additional screens?  Sure.  The primary screen?  Eh... well fullscreen games make it difficult (but not impossible) to draw on them.  I know for outrun fxt I have to force the screen into windowed mode and use the video (as in mpeg) overlay in conjunction with a magenta color keyed form to insert graphics and I can't do true translucency.  It's quite taxing on the system resources as well.  Long story short the bezel would probably have to be static unless mame decides to add animation support to artwork files.  Yeah you could jerry rig a windowed instance of mame in the center, but it'd be a pain in the butt to keep everything where it should be. 

[bobbyb13]

My head still spins about the speed at which all this hardware can function.
Learning how a crt works as a result of this hobby has made me even more amazed at the whole thing in general.

Never even mind the concept of overlaying instances of separate functions on the same screen and keeping that together.

Whoa

[nitrogen_widget]

The entire center portion of the CP in front of the player is empty, and all the controls are placed along the edges. I don't get it.

probably because there is too much flex in the plexi and the bottom of the controls would hit the LCD under the CP.

[nitrogen_widget]

My head still spins about the speed at which all this hardware can function.
Learning how a crt works as a result of this hobby has made me even more amazed at the whole thing in general.

Never even mind the concept of overlaying instances of separate functions on the same screen and keeping that together.

Whoa

most of it is 2d graphics.
most 4 output video cards from the last 5 yrs that can play fortenite on medium could handle that.
if they were using shaders to emulate a CRT for the game portion of the screen..maybe you'd need more horsepower but it looks like they are just maintaining aspect using mame layouts.
people did that with one monitor on the rpi3.

[bobbyb13]

My head still spins about the speed at which all this hardware can function.
Learning how a crt works as a result of this hobby has made me even more amazed at the whole thing in general.

Never even mind the concept of overlaying instances of separate functions on the same screen and keeping that together.

Whoa

most of it is 2d graphics.
most 4 output video cards from the last 5 yrs that can play fortenite on medium could handle that.
if they were using shaders to emulate a CRT for the game portion of the screen..maybe you'd need more horsepower but it looks like they are just maintaining aspect using mame layouts.
people did that with one monitor on the rpi3.

The stuff I see looking over my son's shoulder while he is playing Nintendo Switch just blows my mind, but stunning me maybe isn't really that hard.

My last exercises in programming were Fortran 77 in my freshman year of college.
If not for the genius of others I wouldn't be pulling off any of this-

I think that control panel graphics changing on a per game basis would be even more useful than any of the other very cool ways people have integrated original artwork into/onto cabinets (marquee, bezel, side art, etc.) using LCD

Of course it needs to be done well (I feel like this machine is hardly a proof of concept piece in that way.)

And in that way, the MTV theory doesn't apply here- because sometimes too much is... too much!

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah if it were low level programming it'd be impressive, but with a modern high level language like c++  displaying graphics on multiple monitors can be done with a graphics library and a few lines of code.  Of course the trade off is there's a lot more bloat in terms of resources used but on a fairly new pc it's no big deal. 

I don't even think they wrote a custom front-end.... looks suspiciously like hyprepin/hyperspin to me. 

[DaOld Man]

 

[opt2not]

Multiple LCD’s is the new LED lighting. Builders these days are more about bling than they are about building a playable/comfortable cab. All that matters to these people is how “cool” their cabs look in their man cave. Playability be damned.

[NiN^_^NiN]

Easiest way I can see this working is the LCD is a touch screen and the buttons are modified to touch the screen as a touch screen. Can have arcade and joystick sit ont he LCD and it just touches the area when pressed or shifted.

I'm sure your seen this on mobile phones those suction cup joysticks and buttons that sit over touchscreen controls. 
 
The other option is a pico projector below the control panel that will display the image from below the only downside is you will see a wire coming from the joystick and the buttons no matter how thin you make it going to the edges.

I like the idea and in theory if you have the button for touch screen move around you could have original layouts and move the buttons into place and the spare buttons to the side

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah no.  Anyone who's played games on their phone/tablet knows that touch screens suck for gaming, even with suction cup do-dads to help out.  You just suggested to not use arcade controls on build your own arcade controls.   

[Mike A]

How about we just let a ---smurfy--- idea die a horrible death rather than coming up with even shittier ideas to perpetuate said ---smurfy--- idea.

Is that a proper sentence?

[pbj]

Could we get it to display Cindy Crawford from all angles and mount a fleshlight to it?

Asking for a  friend that is cash in hand.

[Howard_Casto]

How about we just let a ---smurfy--- idea die a horrible death rather than coming up with even shittier ideas to perpetuate said ---smurfy--- idea.

Is that a proper sentence?

Umm because it's not a ---smurfy--- idea?  The idea is great, it's just the execution is terrible.   It's just like how some of the rules to noobs don't apply to veterans... because the veterans might have the skill to actually pull it off.  I think the tech is still a few years out from this but it doesn't hurt to discuss implementation now. 

[Mike A]

No. It is a ---smurfy--- idea.

[Howard_Casto]

No it's not. 

[Mike A]

Yes it is. Infinity +1.

[yotsuya]

I don’t think the technology currently exists that would ever make this a good idea.

[opt2not]

Even so, these screens aren’t built to last. 5-7 years from now and he’ll have to replace 1 or more of them, guaranteed. And that’s generous, depending on how he’s handling heat dispersion.
How would you like to dump $500+ into your cab every mid-decade? I saw a project posted here where the guy put an lcd at the kick base. Good luck not getting that screen kicked in. Yeah no thanks.

[yotsuya]

Even so, these screens aren’t built to last. 5-7 years from now and he’ll have to replace 1 or more of them, guaranteed. And that’s generous, depending on how he’s handling heat dispersion.
How would you like to dump $500+ into your cab every mid-decade? I saw a project posted here where the guy put an lcd at the kick base. Good luck not getting that screen kicked in. Yeah no thanks.

If I’m not mistaken, this was for sale. It’s some other sucker’s problem.

[fallacy]

Lcd tec now can be super thin last forever and produces little to no heat.  Also have you seen how dirt cheap tv’s are now. Sometimes I think they will just start handing out 4k 40 inch or less tvs out as door prizes.

[Mike A]

LCDs that last forever? Pffft.

[yotsuya]

OK, let me rephrase that, I don’t think the technology exists in an economical and widely distributed form that would allow Joe BYOAC to be able to do this in any way that brings it justice.

[shponglefan]

I don’t think the technology currently exists that would ever make this a good idea.

Yet.

[yotsuya]

I don’t think the technology currently exists that would ever make this a good idea.

Yet.

See above.

And even if the tech exists, it’s still not a good idea. Control panels take a pounding.

[Mike A]

I don’t think the technology currently exists that would ever make this a good idea.

Yet.

That is probably why he said "currently".

[yotsuya]

I don’t think the technology currently exists that would ever make this a good idea.

Yet.

That is probably why he said "currently".

Semantics, brof.

[Vigo]

Might as well have those side screens just display a live feed of a webcam mounted at dick height.

[yotsuya]

Might as well have those side screens just display a live feed of a webcam mounted at dick height.

[nitrogen_widget]

Even so, these screens aren’t built to last. 5-7 years from now and he’ll have to replace 1 or more of them, guaranteed. And that’s generous, depending on how he’s handling heat dispersion.
How would you like to dump $500+ into your cab every mid-decade? I saw a project posted here where the guy put an lcd at the kick base. Good luck not getting that screen kicked in. Yeah no thanks.

it looks like a 16:10 screen for the CP.
not many of those around anymore.

I've seen a Dell 15" LCD with a damn plant growing through the case that was almost 15yrs old still working.
but, most LCD monitors I have at work, the backlight craps out between 7-10yrs roughly.
we do get a few <5 yrs old that die but not too often.

[Howard_Casto]

I'm pretty sure I said "we are a few years out" from this.  You guys need to listen.  I also said it was a good idea, I didn't say to use the same methods, which is why I said "if implemented properly".... lcds wouldn't be used... it'd be a combination of rear projection for the control panel, which would have to be at least .5 inch lexan to make it sturdy enough or potentially a custom cut oled film, and oled side art.  Diffusion films could be used to stop the light and keep with from becoming an electric nightmare in terms of distracting brightness.  Right now all that stuff is crazy expensive, but think how quickly the price on lcds have went down.  Within our lifetime we are going to see something similar to this, perhaps on a commercial cabinet. 

[yotsuya]

I'm pretty sure I said "we are a few years out" from this.  You guys need to listen.  I also said it was a good idea, I didn't say to use the same methods, which is why I said "if implemented properly".... lcds wouldn't be used... it'd be a combination of rear projection for the control panel, which would have to be at least .5 inch lexan to make it sturdy enough or potentially a custom cut oled film, and oled side art.  Diffusion films could be used to stop the light and keep with from becoming an electric nightmare in terms of distracting brightness.  Right now all that stuff is crazy expensive, but think how quickly the price on lcds have went down.  Within our lifetime we are going to see something similar to this, perhaps on a commercial cabinet.

I doubt it, commercial cabs generally only play one game at a time and don’t need dynamic control panels.

You’ve seen the underside of a control panel - I don’t think projecting anything up under there would ever look right.

I mean, is it an interesting idea? Sure. Is it feasible for Joe BYOAC? Probably not.

[DaOld Man]

I am in no way defending this project, however, would it be possible to use a projector mounted somewhere above the marquee, shining down onto the CP and making such images?
I know joystick and player hand shadows would probably look like cat feces on a hot tin roof.

[yotsuya]

I am in no way defending this project, however, would it be possible to use a projector mounted somewhere above the marquee, shining down onto the CP and making such images?
I know joystick and player hand shadows would probably look like cat feces on a hot tin roof.

Yeah, that would be even worse.

[nitrogen_widget]

I don't feel the dynamic CP works unless the control layout is the same for all the games in a cab.
I guess if you created custom CP's to work around your custom controls it could work.

but the way it's done here with drywall screws sticking out of the plexi? no.

maybe a 1/2" frosted acrylic CP, (like how old projection TV screens) and a cheap projector could do it. no idea how it would look close up though.
You will probably need to stick the projector on the floor at the back of the cab and a front surface mirror on the floor at the front at a 45 degree angle to get the proper throw distance.

[Howard_Casto]

Yes I'm not suggesting a franken panel.  Like you could do a beat em up cab styled after the konami cabs.... then all the dynamic art, side art, ect would line up and just work because the physical dimensions are the same.  The projection thing isn't super hard.... they make rear projection films where it "just stops" the light from going every where and only displays the image.  You might also need two projectors at opposite angles above the below the center of the control panel.  You'd still see the square joystick base, but the dust cover covers most of that up anyway.  Buttons and spinners have a slim profile so it'd be possible, with careful positioning of the switches, to get near perfect results around them.  Trackballs or more obscure controls would probably be out... although that one 3d printed low profile trackball is still out there. 

[Mike A]

Why don't you just use like 6 projectors. You could wear one on your head.

[pbj]

Just put an x arcade on your lap and slap on a VR headset.

 

[Howard_Casto]

VR still has a way to go... as-is I'd probably get a headache or throw up before I made it through Turtles in Time.  Eventually that might be the way we all do it though. 

[Osirus23]

I prefer setting an Xbox One controller on top of a non-functional control panel and using it to play games.

Also there is no arcade monitor in the cab, just a laptop sitting on the monitor shelf but don't worry I have plans to finish it someday. For now this works.

[RandyT]

Just put an x arcade on your lap and slap on a VR headset.

VR still has a way to go... as-is I'd probably get a headache or throw up before I made it through Turtles in Time.  Eventually that might be the way we all do it though. 

Howard, there are actually good VR headsets out there, which have high framerates and good optics.  I'm with Jim on this one, except I would go for pedestal panel of some sort.

The old arcade titles have a distinct advantage in VR...they are almost all low-native-resolution games.  At a reasonable virtual playing distance, there's a pretty good chance the games won't suffer too badly, if at all.  The fact that you can have a whole virtual arcade, with different machines, side art, marquees etc... makes this a pretty interesting alternative to plastering LCDs all over the machine. 

I was about to write that the only thing missing was a good VR front-end...then Google brought this up in about 2 seconds.  Pretty impressive looking software, and the price seems reasonable (if you don't count the $1200 in the PC and VR gear )

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah I've tried the higher end headsets and they still aren't there yet.  Some people are sensitive to the disconnect between what their senses are tell them and what their eyes are telling them and some aren't.  I can enjoy VR but only in shorter bursts because I am acutely aware that my head isn't where it looks like it is when doing certain movements.   About an hour is my limit.  Any arcade cabinet that gives you headaches and eyestrain isn't preferable.  I played the sega classics collection on my cheapo vr headset as well for the pc and it's actually ok, but again I have the time limit problem. 

[RandyT]

Yeah I've tried the higher end headsets and they still aren't there yet.  Some people are sensitive to the disconnect between what their senses are tell them and what their eyes are telling them and some aren't.

The only disconnect you should be sensing, is when you look at the virtual control panel and see that the controls probably aren't where the actual ones are.  Not sure what other senses you might be referring to, as everything in the visual should be relative.  Again, a good VR headset doesn't experience positional drift or anything like that.

There are a few factors which can cause some folks issues, the condition of  their eyes being one of them, but a blanket statement that VR isn't there yet, at least for the majority in this context, is a little bit of a stretch.  FWIW, VR pinball with such a panel setup is leagues beyond the flat-screen experience.  You can't get closer to the real deal without an actual machine.  This shouldn't be much different.

[Howard_Casto]

There are a few factors which can cause some folks issues, the condition of  their eyes being one of them, but a blanket statement that VR isn't there yet, at least for the majority in this context, is a little bit of a stretch. 

No it really isn't.  I've told all of you guys a million times... vr is a niche market.  It isn't mainstream and it probably never will be.  Over 40% of the population have eye conditions that don't even allow them to properly view stereoscopic 3d.  I'd call that a bit more than a few people. I'm sensitive to the delay between when you start moving your head and when the screen moves.  We are probably talking a few milliseconds here, but in real life the delay is zero.  My internal sense of balance is also effected. 

[shponglefan]

Over 40% of the population have eye conditions that don't even allow them to properly view stereoscopic 3d.  I'd call that a bit more than a few people.

Where did you hear that it's 40%?  I've never heard of that before.

I have heard of cases where people who have trouble with depth perception in real life actually being able to see in 3D in VR (due to the lenses).

I'm sensitive to the delay between when you start moving your head and when the screen moves.  We are probably talking a few milliseconds here, but in real life the delay is zero.  My internal sense of balance is also effected.

Out of curiosity, which headsets have you tried? I know that some tracking systems are better than others; people have reported issues depending on the headset or tracking solution used.

[Osirus23]

Where did you hear that?  I've never heard of that before.

Neither have I. Then again the Internet is rife with nonsense that exists solely to justify resistance to new display technology. See: Numerous ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- charts illustrating 1080p/4K is not noticable unless you are x and y, baseless claims that humans can't see more than 60 fps, etc.

[RandyT]

No it really isn't.  I've told all of you guys a million times... vr is a niche market.  It isn't mainstream and it probably never will be.  Over 40% of the population have eye conditions that don't even allow them to properly view stereoscopic 3d.  I'd call that a bit more than a few people. I'm sensitive to the delay between when you start moving your head and when the screen moves.  We are probably talking a few milliseconds here, but in real life the delay is zero.  My internal sense of balance is also effected. 

I'm really trying not to get into a "dogpile" at your expense, but you make it difficult sometimes   It's not mainstream because it costs too much.  Plain and simple.  Eye conditions don't prevent people from seeing stereoscopic 3D (unless one or both eyes aren't working), rather something in their brain would be rejecting it for whatever reason, and I highly doubt that 40% would be suffering from it.  Reality is, after all, stereoscopic (because you have two eyes.)  Being unable to perceive depth would make for a pretty harrowing disability, and those with such an affliction, certainly shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car.  The same visual cues which allow for it in RL are used in VR, so what works in one should work in the other.

$30 Walmart toys connected to a "potato" of a computer, or lenses in a piece of cardboard give you nothing more than a taste of what is possible, along with a lot of the undesirable stuff brought about by low cost shortcuts.  They are in no way reflective of the state of the technology.  This isn't being "elitist", it's just a fact.  Again, especially in this context, the technology is more than "there", but the cost is still quite high.  The commercial stuff is better (I'm told), but the price is out of reach for most enthusiasts.  Sony (and maybe MS, who knows) are gearing up for it in a big way with the next console, and decent tech has come down in price.  My prediction is that you will see many more VR users very soon.

[mimic]

I was about to write that the only thing missing was a good VR front-end...then Google brought this up in about 2 seconds.  Pretty impressive looking software, and the price seems reasonable (if you don't count the $1200 in the PC and VR gear )

Thanks for the link! It never occur to me how PERFECT light gun games could be in VR with actual roms. A MUST try!

ps. WMR which is quite decent (especially Samsung Odyssey+) can be had used from as low as $100 to only $225 brand new for the mentioned O+ just recently on Amazon! If you already have gaming class PC, the cost becomes a moot point.

[Loafmeister]

A little late to the party but two things

The WTF cab:  yeah this is taking the LCD Marquee idea but to the next level. Only the next level is many years away. I don't doubt somedays we will be able to have screens with holes, are super durable, no heat and flexible.  Until that day, skip any thought of this

Howard:  What high end have you tried. Specifically, have you tried the Valve Index running at 120hz or 144hz?  most people can't see the difference but those like you who have issues maybe can.  If you haven't tried the Valve Index at the high end refresh rate than I'd challenge that you've tried a high end headset.  I love my Valve Index and I also love my Rift S, but the Rift S runs at 80hz, pretty ok for me but I could appreciate people having issues with the Rift S.  Secondly a friend has a Valve index but his PC isn't cutting it IMHO so there is more reprojection going on than there should. So yeah he's got a high end headset but it's not running high end, so if he's running at 90hz, he's really running at 45hz. This is something I saw at one of the VR Arcades, they were running Valve Pro's and you can TELL there was reprojection going on so I could handle it but it was noticeable! 

Anyway just wondering the high ends you've tried, was everything working ok?  Who knows?  Finally, it's something that's been discussed in the VR thread but some people just cannot handle any artificial locomotion so anyone playing those no matter what headset or specs, if you are moving in the game but you are not in real life, quite a few people can't handle it.  This isn't much different than those who get motion sickness from riding in a car.  You are right that there is a segment that can't handle VR, though I'd challenge any percentages.  In saying that, there are some that can't play FPS games either yet that segment of games is still well represented.