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Author Topic: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics  (Read 30552 times)

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pbj

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2019, 09:43:49 pm »
Once I got it to shape I clamped it in the vice


 :banghead:

He’s just messing with us now.


bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2019, 08:37:08 am »
Down to final cleaning and reassembly

The K4600 has a metal shield that comes off real easy with 4 screws.  The shield has the degaussing coil attached.  Cleaner and the paint brush did a nice job.  A couple of the original stickers were laying around inside the cabinet.  I'm going to re-stick them later.



More cleaner and a hose..  I didn't realize it the first couple of times I moved the chassis - the oval holes on the sheet metal sides are carrying handles.  Just in case this is your first time too..



Metal degaussing shield cleaned up.



The CRT is very front heavy.  Clamp it to the bench - I would not consider this optional.



Like the day it was made.  I spent about 15 minutes on the tube with the compressor blowing air under the yoke and down the windings to push out any remaining water.  If a little dribble came out - the air would dry it.



First up was the degaussing shield and the flyback transformer.



After that I reattached the ground wire and the red wire (that was from the flyback to the neckboard.



Add the main PCB and daughter cards





This CRT is ready to get bench tested and adjusted.  One thing I would do differently on the next one.

Here and there - there will be a single little wire that you pull off (like a ground line) or pop off a screw to unhook something.  I took a bunch of *before* pictures but not so many afters.  I spent a little extra time trying to figure out - where did this attach?

So - If you are going to pull off a specific wire - take a pic of it on and right after that show it disconnected next to where you pulled it off.. That way the pics are beside each other in your phone. (or camera?  does anyone use cameras anymore?)

I found all of the right pics - but there were not next to each other and a before/after of the wire in the same spot would have helped.

Same for zip ties.  Show the before and cut tie so you know where it went..  Just for the sake of completeness.  On this chassis they use a couple of ties just to hold boards in place.

More to come..

My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

Arroyo

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2019, 09:38:11 am »
Well thanks a lot, after seeing these pics, I feel like I gotta take apart all my machines and clean em. :lol.  Looks great, nice work.

opt2not

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2019, 01:57:54 pm »
Here and there - there will be a single little wire that you pull off (like a ground line) or pop off a screw to unhook something.  I took a bunch of *before* pictures but not so many afters.  I spent a little extra time trying to figure out - where did this attach?

So - If you are going to pull off a specific wire - take a pic of it on and right after that show it disconnected next to where you pulled it off.. That way the pics are beside each other in your phone. (or camera?  does anyone use cameras anymore?)

I found all of the right pics - but there were not next to each other and a before/after of the wire in the same spot would have helped.

You can also refer to the manual to figure out what wires go where, in case you forget or didn’t take pics.
https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-monitors/Wells%20Gardner%2019K4601%20service%20manual.pdf

But really, you should be referring to the manual anyway if you’re working on monitor repair in general.

Also, here’s the troubleshooting flowchart, these come in handy when trying to figure out repairs:
http://www.wwyss.ch/Arcades_Manuals/Manuals/Monitors/FLOWCHART_-_WELLS_GARDNER_K4600_(U).pdf

Highly recommended reading when tackling monitor repair.  :cheers:

bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2019, 02:24:38 pm »
Thanks opt2not

I had the service manual - but not the flow chart.

The manual shows the schematic - but not where the stupid ground wire screwed in originally.  I could have put it anywhere of course..  But I wanted it back in its original spot.  I found it eventually in one of the pics I had.
Either way - it wasn't a big deal.  But thanks for the info!
The flow chart will come in handy for sure.
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
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jennifer

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2019, 02:32:39 pm »
I find pictures confusing and rarely take any at all, Just keeping the job at hand more specific as an assembly rather than do everything at once...That's not to say dont take pics cause its not cool, it's just not as helpful as one might think once you understand what is is you are working on.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2019, 02:34:15 pm by jennifer »

bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2020, 10:44:44 am »
Bench Testing the Wells Gardner K4600

The good news - everything worked exactly as before!
The bad news - everything worked exactly as before...

Screen is too far to the left and a little too far down.  It also has  distortion along the sides of the grid.  The CraftyMech Test Pattern Generator has been very useful in learning about monitors.  When using the Centipede PCB - I was getting the same distortion and horizontal centering issue.



I've also been hunting for a donor TV to replace this badly burned in screen.  So far no luck.  I've come across many TV's with the CR31 neck (newer TV's) but none with the CR23 neck to match the K4600 tube.  It won't fix the distortion - but having upside down Pacman burn-in on Centipede is just wrong. The search continues.

The amount of information available is almost overwhelming.  KLOV/Arcade Museum is the place to go to get all of the manuals, schematics and access to many people who have worked on these CRT's.   The tricky part is knowing how to search using the correct terms or ask a question without someone telling you its been answered 50 times already and "USE THE SEARCH!".  Yet another vocabulary to learn...

I've been messing with the CRT for a couple weeks while figuring it and the terminology out.

Here are a few items that I've picked up:

No matter how many times you have looked at the board - look again..  You may still have missed something.  Maybe give each component a wiggle or magnified inspection.

On VR605 and VR603 (which is one big power resistor on the other side) - after taking the board in/out 4-5 times - the cold solder joints gave out.  I resoldered them - but it did't correct the issues.



Another one I just found:  C627 is completely missing.  I checked the *before* pictures and it wasn't there before I washed everything - so at least it wasn't self induced.  This tiny speck of a capacitor is part of the horizontal sync circuit - maybe it will get rid of some of the distortion?  The local electronics store did not stock these - but Amazon.com did - go figure.  It will be here in a couple of days and I'll test again.



I've been checking components in place with the meter - diodes, transistors, resistors and capacitors.  If any seemed suspect - I'd pop them out and bench test them..  No real smoking guns as far as each component goes.  It's possible there is a weak part in there someplace.  I found you get a feel for how they test on the board. 

Anther tip on these from KLOV: 
There is a horizontal width adjustment coil that is exceptionally delicate and not very replaceable.  It pops in/out of this little holder.  The downside is just trying to pop it in/out of the holder is the best way to break the coil and it has to come out to work on the main board.  I found a suggestion that said to drill out the rivets for the mounting bracket and replace them with small bolts.   Great idea.



Now when I pull it apart - the bracket stays with the coil with less risk of destruction.  BTW - this coil adjusts with a small hex wrench that turns 'something' inside the coil.  It made the screen shift horizontally a tiny bit, but didn't have much of an effect.



One other oddity that I've run into:
On the TPG - you can turn off each gun independently with a dip switch.  If I turn off red switch - the whole screen goes red (it *should* just turn red off - not full on).  It does the same for green and blue.  CraftyMech says that it should not work this way and maybe the signal line is floating.  I haven't determined if this is an issue with my CRT or if it is something that is weird about the K4600.  In the short term - I'll turn off the guns with the controls on the neck board.



After my capacitor shows up (and likely makes no difference) I'm going to try a couple more things:

I picked up used K4600 chassis boards on KLOV for $40.  I'll swap the interface board and the XY board to see if anything changes and maybe I can localize the issues to a particular board.

There is also good information on later model K4600's that have a horizontal centering adjustment pot on the interface card.  Most models do not have it (including mine) - but it looks like I can swap a resistor, add a resistor and a couple of jumpers on the main PCB to *enable* the mod.  This is supposed to let the P317 interface card adjust the horizontal centering. 

But I don't have a P317: It looks like the horizontal adjustment part of the circuit has nothing to do with the actual P317 card.  I plan to experiment and see if I can just add the mod to the main PCB.  If it works - I *may* be the first person to have done it.  Those parts are on order too..  It will be a good test and I can't fry anything by trying.

More to come..


My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

opt2not

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2020, 11:08:23 am »
For tube swapping, I recommend checking out this spreadsheet of possible TVs that have tubes you can keep a lookout for.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uI8qD_1waAlgb6fghcIDqJabmRegSQ_h2-N05UHEm-o/htmlview?sfns=mo#

Try your local craigslist, garage sales and thrift stores. Bring a flashlight or use your phone’s light and look into the back vent holes and usually you can see the tube models without having to open it up.
Of course, you could always look for a replacement tube from another K4600, but TV scouring might be easier.

Also, if you can find a CRT rejuvenator for sale, snatch it up. Tube swapping, and CRT repair in general benefits greatly by having a rejuvenator on-hand. It’s great for extending the life of a tube, cleaning up emissions and testing the health of your tubes.

Arroyo

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2020, 11:09:15 am »
Great documentation Bob.  There isn’t enough of this on monitors in BYOAC, and I’m glad you are putting it out there for everyone.

bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2020, 01:04:10 pm »
For tube swapping, I recommend checking out this spreadsheet of possible TVs that have tubes you can keep a lookout for.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uI8qD_1waAlgb6fghcIDqJabmRegSQ_h2-N05UHEm-o/htmlview?sfns=mo#

Try your local craigslist, garage sales and thrift stores. Bring a flashlight or use your phone’s light and look into the back vent holes and usually you can see the tube models without having to open it up.
Of course, you could always look for a replacement tube from another K4600, but TV scouring might be easier.

Also, if you can find a CRT rejuvenator for sale, snatch it up. Tube swapping, and CRT repair in general benefits greatly by having a rejuvenator on-hand. It’s great for extending the life of a tube, cleaning up emissions and testing the health of your tubes.

Thanks for the info - I've seen that spreadsheet - Its very useful.  You wouldn't believe how hard it is to get someone to just send the model number of a TV...  Facebook Marketplace has been the most responsive so far..  I found a great 25" donor at the dump..  Its now in storage.  I also have a pristine 19" Zenith with a CR31 neck.  The Zenith was bought for the guys father 20 years ago..  Who lived 6 months after that..  the TV has been barely used since.  It didn't even have dust in it when I took it apart.

Great documentation Bob.  There isn’t enough of this on monitors in BYOAC, and I’m glad you are putting it out there for everyone.

Thanks Arroyo - I'm trying to put out info that is not just the main stream stuff, but items I've had to really dig to find..  i.e.  No need to document the actual recapping process.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 01:08:47 pm by bperkins01 »
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

pbj

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2020, 05:25:51 pm »
I mean, when you’re tooling around town buying free/$10 TVs, I think you just take what you get and put it in your neighbor’s trash can if it’s not suitable....




bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #51 on: January 04, 2020, 11:54:15 am »
Overall this cabinet is in decent shape, but its not without its issues.

The rear access door, rear panel for the power switch / powercord and the front coin panel were not in good shape.  They had been wet for some period of time.  The sides and side art at the bottom have expanded too - Not 100% sure of how I'm going to approach them at this time.  But I'm experimenting.  Replacing the original side art is not an option for me.  The vast majority of it is very nice and I want to preserve it.



The coin door panel has screws connected to battens on the sides and staples across the bottom.  It all popped apart pretty easily.  Remove the screws and hit it a few times with a mallet.  Out it came.  The side battens were stapled in place and popped off. Same for the power panel / kick plate across the bottom rear.



At one point there *should* have been some 1/4" ply across the rotten part on the rear panel to secure the lower part.  I can see where it was anyway..  It also appears there was a cover across the slot?  I'm guessing to keep stuff from poking inside the cabinet.  I'll figure out what it looked like and restore it.



Here is the lower power/kick plate.  I'm certain this SHOULD be 3/4" - this is a full 1 1/8" thick.  The black areas on the top and bottom are where it expanded - I knew particle board sucked with water - but I've never seen it show it so clearly.



The measurements came off the existing part pretty easily.  It's 5" wide, 3/4" thick and 23 3/4" long.  The angled part points downward.  It appeared to be a 45 deg angle - but I put a gauge on it - and it was a 41 deg angle..  So I reproduced it at 41 deg.



Now I just duplicate the original.  Screw the old part to the new one and cut the power cord slot and power switch hole.  The little blocking I will move to the replacement.  My machine has the original plastic plate that slides into these blocks to retain the power cord.  One more bit of info I get is how much overlap I need on the 1/4" plywood on the rear panel/door.  Obviously just enough not to hit these blocks.



Ready for paint and transfer of the power plate blocking.

One thing I can say about particle board - it hasn't changed in 40 years.  The original material was exactly 3/4" thick - the new stuff - exactly 3/4" thick.  I wish plywood was as consistent.



The original back panel was all blown up at the bottom.  I cut the replacement to the exact size.  Above I cut the slot part of the panel off and screwed it to the new back just to make it easier to work with.  I like using the tablesaw fence as an alignment point so that I only need to get things lined up in one direction (east/west).   Screw them together with a couple drywall screws and.....



Cut the new slot on the router with a pattern matching bit.  You can't see it in the picture - but there was a bit of a wiggle in the cut from the factory original right where the straight part of the opening meets the rounded end - its perfectly replicated.  I'll have to look at another centipede to see if this is in all of them - just because I can.



While I was at it - I recessed and drilled the opening for the rear door cam lock.  The original is destroyed.  But they are easy to come by..



Last major part I was unhappy with was the coin door panel.  They used glue where they screwed it to the battens - but it popped right off.  I can replace it to look original.  Same steps - square it up to the fence and screw the old to the new.  This is very doable even without a table saw.  You could cut a replacement panel a little oversized and use the router to copy it exactly around the outer perimeter.



The original panel had 1/2" rounded out corners on the inside - so I used a 1/2" pattern bit.  I precut the opening with a jigsaw to reduce the workload on the router bit.  Here I don't have a problem using "ok" quality bits..  The wood and glue in particle board will chew them up..  No need to ruin expensive bits on this stuff.



After routing the inside - I used the original holes as drill guides to copy them to the new panel.  Use backer boards on the far side to prevent blowout.



New panel ready for lamination.
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
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Mike A

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #52 on: January 04, 2020, 12:36:40 pm »
 :cheers:

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #53 on: January 04, 2020, 01:02:45 pm »
That’s a good looking back door. I just threw a piece of 3/4 MDF back there and it’s been good ever since .
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2020, 06:24:36 pm »
Back to fixing the CRT

I took a break from messing the the K4600 to build an Bench isolation power supply
It will make working on this and any future CRT's much easier to set up/tear down.

My teeny speck of a capacitor arrived - it came very well packed in this box.  Not sure what is worse - that the box is stupid big or that a human taped it inside, filled it will air pillows and sent it on its way..



I put in on the main PCB (C627) - it made no difference to the horizontal centering circuit.

Now to try something that I do not think has been done this way before.  The K4600 had many revisions and model numbers.  Each with different schematics, components, interface cards, etc.  The later releases of the PCB supported the P317 interface card which had a horizontal centering pot.  I found a few references on KLOV that detailed the "Horizontal Centering Mod" for the K4600.  It took a couple hours to decipher a few threads and consolidate all of the information.  I'll assume if you got this far - you have recapped your boards and have the schematics.  The centering mod is for K4600's where you cannot get the screen to move far enough left or right (obviously).

Basically here is the Horizontal Centering Mod summarized from other threads:

On your main PCB:  (mine is a K4606 just for reference)

  • Replace resistor R635 with a 6.8K 1/2W resistor
  • Remove jumper J19 and put a 6.8K 1/2W resistor in its place
  • If you HAVE  a P317 Interface card
    • Add a jumper wire on the back side of the board from pin 7 of the XY board connector to pin 1 of the Interface board connector  (P302 pin 7 --> P201 pin 1)
      This connects one side of R635 to P201 - you can see it if you follow the trace.
    • Add a jumper wire from the opposite side of R635 to pin 2 of the interface board connector.  (R635 --> P201 pin 2)
  • The horizontal centering pot on the P317 interface card should now work with your older main PCB.
After printing out both the P306 and P317 interface card schematics - it quickly became clear that the 'Horizontal Centering Pot' had no interaction with the actual P317 board.  It just happens to be on it (I'm guessing because it was easier to do a mod on the much smaller board than the main PCB when they were being manufactured)

If you DO NOT HAVE a P317 interface board - give this a try.

Here is a schematic snippet (hopefully this is OK)  - Copied from KLOV.



On the edge of my PCB there are many unused holes - I took a small 10K pot, bent a single leg down and soldered it to the ground trace on the perimeter of the PCB.  Not perfect - but it holds it in place on the single leg.



Steps for mod:
  • Solder one leg of the pot through an unused hole into the ground trace on the main PCB.
  • On the center wiper pin - solder a 680pF Z5F  (C204) capacitor.
  • Add a jumper wire on the back side of the board from pin 7 of the XY board connector to the second bottom leg of the pot opposite the ground leg.
    This connects one side of R635 to this leg.  (P302 pin 7 --> pot leg not soldered through the board)
  • Add a jumper wire from the opposite side of R635 on the back of the PCB to the capacitor on the wiper on the pot.
  • This bypasses needing a P317 card completely and gives you the ability to center horizontally.

The furthest right I could get this screen before was this: (not sure how the get an iPhone to scan at a different rate than the screen - the bottom is not dim as shown)



With the centering mod:



This CRT still has a way to go.  For starters I've been hunting for a few weeks for a donor TV - no joy yet.  I'll experiment with convergence/purity on this one to get a feel for it.  I have plenty of distortion and the tube is badly burned in.  I'm not certain if the distortion is 100% a tuning issue or is having a crappy tube contributing to the distortion problem.

Two other things happened as a result of the mod:

  • L351 - the Horizontal Oscillator adjustment (seems) to have become way more responsive.  Before the mod it either held sync or didn't.  Now it helped with centering and gave me some 'range' to work with.
  • The Horizontal size coil (L702) also started doing more - I was able to make better adjustments.  Previously I could get the screen to move maybe 1/4 inch.
I could not have tried any of this without all of the information available on KLOV and the work done by others.  Hopefully someone will find this useful.
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2020, 01:21:10 pm »
Nice work, saw your write up on KLOV as well, this is some good digging.  I know what a crazy amount of time it takes to solve one of these types of problems so kudos for sticking it out.

bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2020, 01:48:47 pm »
Thanks - I'm not sure about cross posting etiquette.  But this particular mod I had not seen and its been super useful. So it really needed to be in both places.
 
 I just discovered the little pot I used came with a knob!  Even better!

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bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2020, 11:58:49 pm »
Quick update, but I thought it was worth documenting.  Old cabinets made of particle board ...  I guess they were not really supposed to last this long.  If someone told Henry Ford that a Model T would still be running in the year 2020 .. he would have laughed at them.

Well - my restoration will not be museum quality - but I would like to try to keep things relatively authentic.  My buddy saw this machine tonight and I showed him the particle board replacement parts - he said "why not use something better?".  After a little back and forth banter, I left at "dude you don't get it.."



This is a bit of a close up.  It is the area inside the back of the cabinet where the rear panel cam lock chews up the particle board.  In my opinion, here is the best way to fix this:



Sawdust sifted through a strainer.  This dust is from the particleboard replacement panels I made for the rear and front that I'll get to later.  My goto glue is System3 epoxy.  It is a 2 part epoxy that is very strong and dries hard.  I especially like it because it is a 2:1 epoxy.  I measure it in small cups on a digital scale - grams are the easiest measure.   10 grams of resin, 5 grams of hardener - mix well.  Add sawdust until the mixture is very stiff.  If its a little runny - add more.  It needs to be stiffer than peanut butter - but not dry.  Wood glue's are strong - but still soft when they set and add no true rigidity to the material.  Ex:  squirt a stripe of wood glue on plastic wrap.  Next to it the same size stripe of epoxy.  When it dries - the wood glue will be nice and bendy and the epoxy will shatter.  It dries hard - and when the right filler is added - is extra strong.



I have a piece of wood that I clamped onto the edge to act as a mold.  It is coated in packing tape (you can't see it - its clear).  The filler will not stick to the tape and provides a smooth edge.  Using a putty knife press the filler into the void and leave it just a little thicker than the surface.  Let it cure overnight.



This  picture does it no justice - but the chunk is completely filled and rock solid.  Once it's fully cured - I used a small sander and flatten it all out.  I'll add a small metal plate so that the new cam lock can't re-chew the panel. 



Same treatment to the outside of the same panel.  Over the years - its obvious screwdrivers were used to pry the back off.  Here is a 3/4" scrap of wood, wrapped in packing tape and used as a mold for the filler. 



Here it is sanded and painted.  I'm using oil based flat black Rust-Oleum and wiping it on with a rag.  This repair is invisible.



Three of the four leg levelers came out without much issue.  But there is always a troublemaker.  The fourth one just pulled out and the hole it left behind was useless.  Epoxy based wood filler to the rescue.  Filled everything, sanded it smooth, drilled a new hold and added a new blind nut. 



One of the old ones the left - still plenty strong and held in with large staples.  New on the right with screws. 



I did finish up the replacement coin door panel.  Its identical.  Just new.



Ok - its nearly identical.  I didn't use staples for the most part, I used screws.  The original cleats I'm pretty sure were luan (3/4" x 3/4").  I just happened to have some leftover mahogany in the exact same dimension.  I'll bet real money there isn't another Centipede machine on the planet with mahogany cleats on the coin door panel.

Rear door painted in flat black.



I even decided to replicate the missing slot cover from the original.  Now this part was easier to install with staples! 



Mostly I'm doing all of these small items because I'm still contemplating how to fix the sides w/o ruining the original side art.   I have a loose plan in my head - but haven't fully committed just yet.


The bottom part of this panel is really crap.. 



Here is the original T-molding with almost 1/8" of expansion on either side on that same panel.  Eventually everything else will be done and I will have no choice but to come up with some clever way to repair this.
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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2020, 06:14:50 am »
This resto is one of my favorites of this year already. I love the attention to detail and use of original parts, even if I would also have probably used some different wood as well :afro:

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2020, 07:28:42 am »
There will definitely be more than one glass of beer hoisted in your direction at Zapcon for this resto.

I like my games to show their age. I don't do much if any cosmetic work. I am very picky that they play correctly though.

I do, however,  appreciate when someone goes to great lengths to preserve a game and make it look all pretty.

Keep posting. I am learning new stuff, and different ways to do old stuff.

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2020, 08:54:06 am »
That’s some fine work. 

I’m sure I am in the minority but for some reason the idea of putting on new artwork doesn’t bother me. 

Phoenix arcade sells screen printed just like the originals and guys of KLOV have vouched the quality:

https://www.phoenixarcade.com/products/centipede/centipede-full-sized-upright-side-art

:dunno:


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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2020, 08:59:15 am »
Quote
I’m sure I am in the minority but for some reason the idea of putting on new artwork doesn’t bother me.

We are going to have a little talk later. :bat

bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2020, 09:00:19 am »
I have their CPO now (still need to put it on the control panel - I figured I'd wait until later so it doesn't get knocked around too much)
The side art is a bit different - mine has a yellow outline and their's is pink.  Maybe they make it both ways - but as a fallback - if I mess mine up beyond stupidity - I can absolutely make the side panel perfectly flat and add the one they make.

Actually - that takes off a little bit of the pressure  :)

(but I won't mess it up for fear of MikeA clubbing me to death and leaving my corpse in a desert to be eaten by tics)
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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2020, 09:12:28 am »
I would only replace the side art as a last resort.

When you are finished it might not look right if the rest of the cab is pristine and your side art is rough.

That will be a judgement call you need to make at that time.

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #64 on: January 10, 2020, 09:17:15 am »
(but I won't mess it up for fear of MikeA clubbing me to death and leaving my corpse in a desert to be eaten by tics)

Hide the children, he takes no prisoners.

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #65 on: January 10, 2020, 02:46:23 pm »
Yeah, I'd try to keep that original art if it's possible. It's really not that bad, just the bottom needs some attention. I don't know what your plans are to approach that, but if I were to take a stab at it, I'd probably use some kind of filler to level the art to the missing portions of the damaged wood, then try to colour-match some paint for the off-white of the art, then "blend" it in with a fine fan brush. Since it's at the bottom, if you get the blend looking nice and the colour is close enough, then people might not even notice it.

bperkins01

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2020, 11:29:34 pm »
I'm making some progress on repairing the particle board - but that is a much longer post.  While I was standing around I decided to try something - this worked out pretty good.



Here is the same spot - with only the black lines filled in with a Sharpie... freehand.. I wish I could make a sharpie in the other colors.. this would be a simple repair.. I'll clean this up a bit more - but simple is better in this case.   It passes the 3 foot test easy.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 11:34:59 pm by bperkins01 »
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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2020, 12:09:03 am »
Oh yeah, a black Sharpie is the quick restorer’s friend in this hobby!
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2020, 01:08:09 am »

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2020, 09:54:58 am »
Repairing the expanded part of the particle board at the bottom and at the control panel are where I've been focusing most my attention.  The right side of the cabinet is much worse than the left - so I started with the left side.  Better to experiment on it. 



Step 1 - put the patient on the operating table.  Its much easier to work at this level and the lighting is better. 



Here is the particle board expansion - can't see it in the picture very well..  but its all bumpy and pebbly.  It's expanded up to 1/8" at spots beyond the T-molding.



Keep the T-molding in place and use it as a guide.  Power sand with 80 grit paper and a slow sanding speed.  Don't concentrate on a single spot - work your way back and forth over the entire area and continually sneak up on bringing the surface into a uniform flatness right up to the edge of the old T-molding. I did avoid the artwork however..



This part was chewed up too  It got sanded and filled with epoxy/wood filler.  I was using particle board dust which is good for some of the larger areas.  For the smaller holes I had to switch to wood flour (its just very fine saw dust - most of the epoxy manufacturers sell it)  The particle board dust was too chunky for the small dings.



This rear corner was chewed up pretty good - over fill it and sand it to shape later.



Can't really see it - but this part is very important in my opinion.  Seal the particle board with a wood stabilizer.  There are a number of companies that make it.

I use Smith and Company - CPES - It is a 2 part epoxy and solvent solution.  You mix it and brush it on heavy to really wet out the wood.  It penetrates into the fibers and the solvent flashes off.  What's left is the epoxy to cure and stabilize the wood fibers.  I slathered this on all of the bare areas and along the edge where the old T-molding came out to firm it all up.  Its perfectly fine to add a second coat too.  It goes on like water and wicks into the material. 

CPES is not for everyone - You need a carbon respirator because the fumes are nasty. System3 makes a similar product that is a little less volatile.  Minwax Wood Hardener is another variant that is not epoxy based.   I use CPES because its on my shelf - I've heard good things about the other two.  The point is - the particleboard has already been compromised by moisture.  The stabilizer will help prevent any further damage and strengthen what is there.



Finish sanding with 220 grit paper to  clean up around the crappy areas. 

 
 

Now to paint the white areas.   I took a shot and tried something that worked exceptionally well.  Home Depot sells $5 paint samples that they can color match and mix.  The Behr Marquee semi-gloss worked better than expected.  I brought in the tiniest little chip from the white part of the side art and they mixed up the little container.  Its a perfect match..  You have to look VERY hard to see the difference.  If I can find a way to do it without cutting into the original artwork - I may try color matching some of it too..  At $5 a try - the price is right.

It didn't happen without a little trial and error though..  My first pass used a brush..  I ended up with thick gloppy paint and brush marks.  So I wet sanded that off..  I had some Floetrol from other projects.  It is a latex paint conditioner that thins the paint a bit, but more importantly it helps the paint to self level and eliminate brush marks.  You can add 10-20% of this stuff to the paint.  I also switched from the brush to these High Density Foam Rollers.  The combination of the three really worked great.





After the white paint - I rolled on black around the edge (like factory original) so the T-Molding would blend.  The new T-molding is a very nice replica of the original Atari flat stock.  The lighting isn't the greatest here - but I give this side an A- overall.  In the bright light of the shop - the color match is nearly imperceptible.  In a dimly lit game room.  It will be impossible to see.  I hope I can get the crappy other side as nice as this one.
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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2020, 10:24:41 am »
Looking good, pick up some sharpie brand paint markers for the touch ups.  Doing the black outlines does a lot to make flaws fade away, though.


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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2020, 10:49:45 am »
That is really impressive work.  I'm in the market for a Centipede and you are making me rethink my restoration plan. 

Those sharpie paint markers pbj mentioned come in other colors and work better than just plain sharpies.  I used a white one on my Asteroids Deluxe.


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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2020, 11:05:39 am »
Thanks guys - the regular sharpie is not good enough for the black lines.  I ended up wiping it off with acetone.  I'll look into the Sharpie Paint markers - never heard of them.  I did pick up some little bottles of the acrylic paints at the craft store and the black works great with a small brush.  I'm testing the yellow and other colors now.    I'm not an artist - but I may try mixing some colors to see if I can get better matches on the red, green and oranges.  We'll see if I get that far on the side art. 
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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2020, 01:45:35 pm »
That’s an impressive blend! Looks completely new! Nice job  :applaud:

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2020, 07:54:22 am »
Wow!  I can’t believe you pulled that off.  I honestly didn’t think there was any way you could make that look good again, but damn was I wrong.

Is the flat T-molding on in that picture?  Nice work getting details like that down, really makes a difference.

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2020, 07:59:56 am »
Nice. I wish I had the patience to do that kind of work.

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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2020, 08:12:11 am »
@Arroyo - yes - that is the new T-Molding you pointed me too - really nice stuff.  Its installed on there.  Looks just like the original.
 
This side wasn't *too* bad.  I started on the other side.. Its a bit more of a challenge - so glad I practiced on the good side.  I'm hoping to have the second side done this week.

@Mike - thanks man  ;)
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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #77 on: January 27, 2020, 11:18:43 am »
Ok - here is a sneak preview of the next installment.

Yesterday I sanded the expanded particleboard down to the old T-molding and sealed the wood with CPES.

I ran out to the shop and mixed up a batch of epoxy and wood flower, filled in all the bad parts and skimmed the rough particle board surface (just like drywall).
I prefer to let epoxy cure 24-36 hours.  Tomorrow night I'll smooth it out and see what I get.   ???



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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2020, 08:15:53 am »
Now for the bad side....


Having practiced on the better of the two sides.  This side had particleboard that had expanded quite a bit larger than the T-molding.  This line is very noticeable - it was 1/8" along the bottom edge and the surface of the panel has a pebbly texture to it..



I put the T-molding back and sanded the side down to the edge of the molding as a guide (same as the first side) and generally tried to keep the area as flat as I could.  The artwork is a bit raised due to the wood expansion - but its a trade-off - it stays as is..

Once it was all leveled off, it got a couple coats of CPES.  After it set over night I mixed up epoxy and wood flour and skimmed on a coat to fill in the texture of the particle board and filled in all the dings around the edges.  I let this cure overnight.






The goal is not to add to the surface - more to fill in the texture - same as Bondo.  Epoxy is just stronger than Bondo and will add some stability to the material and limit moisture absorption.



Looks like a big mess - I was a bit nervous about it myself..





But it worked out nearly as good as the first side.  The color match of the paint is right there.  I had to roll on a 2 coats, wet sand with 320 to blend it a bit, then roll on another coat and wet sand with 600 to blend it a bit.. Then added here and there where it was thin.

After that I ran into a problem that took me about a week to resolve.  The color match was great - in flat lighting.  If you caught the light from the side to see the gloss - you got several different glosses.   Shiny glossy original, the scuffed areas where the latex meets the original surface, flat areas, dull areas, etc.   

My first inclination - spray on semi-gloss clear (standard Rustoleum)   Did a quick test spray on the newly fixed areas.  It turned the latex yellow instantly.  REALLY not a compatible paint.  I had to sand it off and repaint.  Thankfully I only did a small area..

I tried a water based spray on clear coat Minwax Polycrylic  - On a test piece this time.  It just beaded up like water on a windshield..  Fail...

I even tried buffing and polishing compound used for auto detailing, but it just didn't seem to work right with the different materials.



Final answer:  Wipe on (or brush) water based polyurethane.  Quick wipe with a cloth over all of the repaired areas and just overlapped the artwork a bit.  It leveled the sheen to be a lot less noticeable.  In flat light - you can't see the repairs.  I'm going to mess with this a bit more.  Maybe a light rub with extra fine Scotchbright pad to see how that works.  But this sealed up the surface and took away most of the differences in gloss.



New T-molding on and a good 1/8" of expanded particle board removed.  I painted the edges black before adding the T-molding of course.



If you run a flat hand over the bottom area - there surface is not flat.  The wood below the artwork had puffed up a bit.  When its upright next to the floor.  Looks like new.




I still need to go back and correct the side art itself.  There are many black lines that are easy to correct.  I also found a very good match for the yellow.  The other colors I'm going to try to color match and use the sample paints from HD.  But I wanted to get it on its feet again.
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Re: Centipede restoration - My first - There will be plenty of pics
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2020, 08:24:42 am »
It's been a while since I worked on the coin door - I've been working on the cabinet.


The cabinet is now going back together and it's time to reinstall the coin door.




Not a huge update - screw heads cleaned and repainted.  Coin door and marquee brackets repainted.  Nothing complicated.  But I will say this particular paint is perfect for the job.  The sheen matches the original nearly perfectly..  One thin coat and all the parts look original.  
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