[4/1/2024] -Pi4/5 Support Incoming -Major League SkeeBall -- SkeeBall Controller

[Rberry45]

 Nipsmg, I just want to say that I absolutely love this software. Incredible work! I purchased an old Skee Roll machine and the software has brought this back to life. Just installed the optical sensors and am adding the 100 point holes.

You possess a skill set (programming) that I do not possess. I have a request. I may be asking for something that is fairly easy to do, or may be impossible, or perhaps has an easy solution that I am just not aware of, but here is the ask:

For those that are familiar with Virtual Pinball, VPX Pinup Popper front end has an option to shut down the computer from the menu screen. In short, I can place the start up file in the start up folder, and start, run and shut down the computer without ever using the keyboard or mouse (minimal interface with Windows). While I do have your application file in my startup menu, I am manually closing the program, then manually shutting down windows. Is this something that could be done with this software? Perhaps as an option on the main menu screen?

Not a criticism by any means. Your software made my day, heck, week when I recently stumbled upon it.  If you need testers in the future, just ask. Thank you again for this wonderful software! Scott

[Rberry45]

Bounce Issues with Optical switches - may help someone with conventional whisker switches as well...

I just finished converting to optical switches and had issues with random multiple scoring. The solution for me was to go into windows, Settings, Accessibility, Keyboard, selected "Filter Keys", and switched "Ignore Unintended Keystrokes" to "On", and lastly set "Wait before accepting repeated keystrokes" to "0.3 seconds". After a restart, no more multiple scoring.  Different versions of Windows (I am running Windows 11) may be worded differently, but the same theory applies. Since the IPAC board for my setup is considered a keyboard to the computer, this eliminated the double bounce scoring issue for me.

Hope this helps someone else if they are experiencing bounce scoring.

[Jstgilstrap]

I did the same thing But now if you tap the right or left arrow to fast it wont let you scroll through the games. You have to hit it at a slow rate.

[IceBalls]

Update on the Ice-Ball project...

As mentioned in an earlier post, Ice-Ball does not have an opto-sensor on each pocket. The three top pockets (50 and 100R and 100L) actually share only 2 sensors. Therefore some logic needs to be implemented to determine what pocket is actually correct and send the appropriate key press.

I decided the easiest way to do this would be to run all sensor outputs to an Arduino Leonardo board and write the logic on there. Tapping into the 5V opto outputs under the playfield wasn't too bad either. The Leo boards also have the ability to act as a HID and simulate a USB keyboard. So this solution allows me to write the necessary logic and replace an i-PAC2.

Once it was proven out, I swapped the original marquee for a 27" monitor and tucked a small Windows PC behind it to run MLS. Right now, I just have a small wireless keyboard to send the ESC/ENTER/LEFT/RIGHT/UP/DOWN commands, but I plan to add buttons at some point. Audio is also connected back to the Ice-Ball speaker so it sounds great.

The machine has been getting a lot more play now. Thanks for your work developing this!

[rick_bungle]

Any one have an issue with the program closing its self. If I keep the program up for a bit it just will close. its even closed during a game play.

I think that's a memory leak -- It happened randomly. I might have a build that fixes that, I'll have to check.

Did you ever check to see if you have a build to correct the memory leak?

[lawrence_jeff]

Great stuff @nipsmg

I recently got a cheap used home game with a broken scoreboard (the sportscraft ~$100 type). I converted the switches with the aid of a raspberry pi pico to trigger keyboard input from the existing switches and then used your app.
Its a non commercial so doesn't have 100 targets but I managed.

[Spoon34]

I just picked up a Skee-Ball Lightning and am excited to implement this upgrade to it! I've read all the pages and links to other examples. It does not come with any electronics boards, but each hole does have a OMRON EE-SPY415 (optical sensor?). So I can use those, right?

I also have a Raspberry Pi 4B and 5 if I can use those.
Otherwise -  a Windows PC/PC on a stick.

Here's what I think I need after reading the forums...

Power Adapter - for powering the optical sensors?
IPAC 2 - To convert the Optical Sensors into Keyboard inputs. Is that correct?
Any guidance on what else I'd need?

Thank you TONS!!

[PL1]

each hole does have a OMRON EE-SPY415 (optical sensor?). So I can use those, right?

If they're still working, you should be able to use them.

Keep in mind that these sensors are now marked "Obsolete" for Lifecycle so replacements will probably be hard to find.

Power Adapter - for powering the optical sensors?

Datasheet: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/307/en-ee_spy415-1670610.pdf

Looks like 5v V_cc should work.

Datasheet indicates max Output Power Dissipation = 250mW * 8(?) sensors ==> 2W.

W = V * A ==> 2W = 5v * __A ==> 2W/5v = 0.4A ==> 400mA.

Leave yourself some wiggle room -- use a power source that can supply at least 500mA.

NOTE:  You'll probably want to tie the ground from the power source to the ground for your encoder so both are operating at the exact same voltage.

IPAC 2 - To convert the Optical Sensors into Keyboard inputs. Is that correct?

It might be a bit of overkill for a skeeball machine, but it will work.

So will any other active-low encoder like an Arduino with a good keyboard firmware like this one.


Scott

[Spoon34]

Well, either I smoked 2-3 of these Omron optical sensors, or they were all bad to start! I managed to get 1 to respond, once. Thank you for your help this week however. I hooked them directly up to the 3-wire leads on this USB Joystick Encoder that arrived quickly from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M2X88QP?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title . However, I can't get them to respond, and my laptop USB3 port is powering the USB encoder, which is powering these switches... too much current?

Anyway, I'm going to order some switches ASAP to get this going before Christmas. I'm liking the idea of whisker switches. Any advice on switches that can be powered by the aforementioned USB Joystick Encoder would be much appreciated!

[PL1]

Well, either I smoked 2-3 of these Omron optical sensors, or they were all bad to start! I managed to get 1 to respond, once. Thank you for your help this week however. I hooked them directly up to the 3-wire leads on this USB Joystick Encoder that arrived quickly from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M2X88QP?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title . However, I can't get them to respond, and my laptop USB3 port is powering the USB encoder, which is powering these switches... too much current?

It is clear that you do not know what you are doing with this stuff.         

Plugging a 3-pin optical sensor into some random 3-pin connector on a 100% unrelated PCB is not a way to test if the sensor is working.

If your plan is to slap random electronic stuff together and hope it works without releasing the magic smoke, then let me know now so I don't waste any more of my time.

If you have a multimeter and are willing to take the necessary time to systematically work through things, I can help you.
- You should consider starting a thread in Project Announcements for that so we don't fill up Nipsmg's thread with the many off-topic back and forth posts that this process will require.

I'm not sure if the encoder you linked to is an "active low" or "active high" device, but there's a decent chance you won't be able to draw enough amperage through it to power all of the optical switches.  If you insist on using that encoder, you'll have to reverse engineer the LED buttons so you can use that info to reverse engineer the encoder PCB.  Might be better to use that encoder for some other project and find one with known specs and pinout for you skee ball setup.

Anyway, I'm going to order some switches ASAP to get this going before Christmas.

You can easily pull that off if your target is Christmas 2025.

If you mean Christmas 2024 . . . don't bet on it.

I'm liking the idea of whisker switches. Any advice on switches that can be powered by the aforementioned USB Joystick Encoder would be much appreciated!

Before you write off those Omron switches, you should at least properly test them.
- They were originally chosen because they work mounted on that play field and with those balls.

If the Omron switches are bad, the next thing I'd recommend is the beam break sensors mentioned earlier in this thread.  More info and 3d printable mounts at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2932740.



Otherwise, here are some things to keep in mind if you insist on using physical switches:
- Physical switches will usually need more maintenance than optical switches in the long term due to the impact.
- You'll need to mount physical switches in a way that the wiring is protected and the ball reliably hits the arm to trigger the switch without damaging the mount.
- There is one type of wire arm microswitch that I've found that will handle the impact of the skee balls without the arm popping off -- Zippy 1351 -- but you probably don't want to order them from here on Amazon.


Scott

[Spoon34]

I scrapped the science project AtomicPi and found a core i5 Dell Latitude on Marketplace for $60. Omron sensors were bad - had already tested them with multimeter. Problems solved.
$30 in new optical sensors - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09JZCYCCN?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
$60 laptop - FB Marketplace
$50 27" monitor - FB Marketplace
$25 arcade button/joystick USB kit - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M2X88QP?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title
$5 in new number stickers - Hobby Lobby
and $40 in wiring - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GCZV4BS?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

All set! Thanks for your help along the way, and this incredible game!!

[JRS]

I have been reading this thread for a while now. Just a few days ago I was able to pickup an IceBall machine and am ready to start the conversion. I'm super excited use MLS to get this machine back up and running. Thanks to everyone who has blazed the trail for me to follow!

[nipsmg]

Cool let me know if you need help.