CRT TV with S-Video or LCD with VGA?

[jmcginley]

I looked through the FAQ and saw the pros and cons. However, it seems like there have been a lot of advancements in software since those were written.


If this has been addressed elsewhere, please let me know.


I'm planning on buying/modifying/building a showcase cabinet strictly for gun games and Golden Tee, Bowling, etc.


It's my understanding that there aren't really any software "tricks" you can do on a monitor connected via S-Video compared to one connected through VGA.


So I'm just curious if an LCD TV with VGA can be configured to look more like an arcade monitor than a CRT TV connected through S-Video?


Finding a working arcade monitor in my area and in the size I want is going to be next to impossible. Thinking somewhere around 33" - 39" view-able screen on 4:3 ratio.

[dmckean]

If you're looking to play gun games, you're going to want a CRT.

[jmcginley]

Can "real" arcade light guns be used with MAME? I was under the impression Aimtraks were my only/best option.

[dmckean]

Can "real" arcade light guns be used with MAME? I was under the impression Aimtraks were my only/best option.

Aimtrack is really, really laggy and can't handle targets around the outside edges of the screen, which makes most games unplayable.

Have you considered a PS2 and a TV? A PS2 can play both PS1 and PS2 supported tiles and there's a lot available.

[jmcginley]

Can "real" arcade light guns be used with MAME? I was under the impression Aimtraks were my only/best option.

Aimtrack is really, really laggy and can't handle targets around the outside edges of the screen, which makes most games unplayable.

Have you considered a PS2 and a TV? A PS2 can play both PS1 and PS2 supported tiles and there's a lot available.

I was actually looking at the list of gun games on Wikipedia earlier. I wouldn't be opposed to running PS1/PS2 on the machine. Just kind of wondering which games I'd be missing out on by doing that. Can light guns work with PC games? Is it just an issue not being able to use them when emulating games?

[dmckean]

No one has bothered to make drivers for light gun hardware. There used to be options back 15 years ago when most people used CRTs, but the hardware they used doesn't exist anymore.

[P.H.U.]

Hey man, I am in the same boat. Love some of those gun games. CRT is the way to go. I did my research and can clearly see there is some lag/inaccuracy on all the videos of Aimtrak I see on Youtube. Anyways, I started a thread over hereon the subject. Here is what I have learned so far:

• If you do set up MAME for these gun games, you are going to be limited to a 32-bit OS, likely XP
• Also, the official GunCon guns don't work with the WinGun drivers. Better to use 3rd party GunCon clones
• Then of course, you can also go the console route
• This dude does a pretty good review of light guns
• I picked up the guns he reviewed from Amazon.co.uk, saving myself some dough

Good luck man. Gun games are a relic these days. But that quick twitch action required for games like Police Trainer, oh so fun!

[jmcginley]

Thanks for the tips. P.H.U. I read through your post and I see what you're saying. We're on the same page as far as what we want for sure. Luckily for me you seem to have a good understanding of what needs to happen to accomplish this. I'm not nearly as electronically inclined as you or the others who are working on solutions. I can follow directions though haha! I look forward to seeing more advancements in this area so we can get "real" light guns working correctly in MAME with a guide simple enough for an idiot like me to follow! 

[burn_654]

If you're set on using 'real' light guns your options are:

ACT Labs usb guns - apparently very accurate, but very rare and expensive. From what I've read they work in all OS's.
Optigun/USB2Gun board - these are used to interface with the real arcade guns, they can be found but are also pretty expensive. I'm not sure if these work on modern os, they might?
Guncon2 USB Light guns for PS2 - these are plentiful and cheap but will only currently work in a 32bit OS as P.H.U. mentioned. The namco guncon2's will *sort of* work but they have the rolling-x issue where the cursor can wrap to the other side of the screen. Wingun has a correction option for this that makes namco guns close to usable but on occasion, moving the gun offscreen and then back onscreen the calibration will be off for a shot. 3rd party/other brand lightguns do not have this issue at all so I recommend going for a 3rd party guncon2 if you're interested. Driver development for these kind of died off but what does exist, works well in Windows XP.

I personally use 3rd party Guncon2's in XP. I have the yellow composite cord spliced into the sync wire output from a JPAC video amplifier to use my system with a real arcade monitor. (I soldered a female rca connector in-line with the sync wire to accomplish this.) If you have a video card with composite tv output that's probably the easiest way to try it, plugging that into the gun and the gun into a crt tv.

I have a complicated project in mind that will hopefully get Guncon2's working 100% in x64 os (using a driver originally for the Topgun IR gun) but it requires a small custom circuit that I'm still working out. I'll be posting about that when I have better results.

[jmcginley]

If you're set on using 'real' light guns your options are:

ACT Labs usb guns - apparently very accurate, but very rare and expensive. From what I've read they work in all OS's.
Optigun/USB2Gun board - these are used to interface with the real arcade guns, they can be found but are also pretty expensive. I'm not sure if these work on modern os, they might?
Guncon2 USB Light guns for PS2 - these are plentiful and cheap but will only currently work in a 32bit OS as P.H.U. mentioned. The namco guncon2's will *sort of* work but they have the rolling-x issue where the cursor can wrap to the other side of the screen. Wingun has a correction option for this that makes namco guns close to usable but on occasion, moving the gun offscreen and then back onscreen the calibration will be off for a shot. 3rd party/other brand lightguns do not have this issue at all so I recommend going for a 3rd party guncon2 if you're interested. Driver development for these kind of died off but what does exist, works well in Windows XP.

I personally use 3rd party Guncon2's in XP. I have the yellow composite cord spliced into the sync wire output from a JPAC video amplifier to use my system with a real arcade monitor. (I soldered a female rca connector in-line with the sync wire to accomplish this.) If you have a video card with composite tv output that's probably the easiest way to try it, plugging that into the gun and the gun into a crt tv.

I have a complicated project in mind that will hopefully get Guncon2's working 100% in x64 os (using a driver originally for the Topgun IR gun) but it requires a small custom circuit that I'm still working out. I'll be posting about that when I have better results.

I've been reading a lot about the ActLab guns and the USB2Gun board. Haven't done a lot of research on the Guncon2 as of yet.


I do have a couple questions right off the bat when looking at that option:


Is it possible to use the Guncon2 if I want to just have a dedicated gun game cab that plays all the actual light gun games as well as analog joystick gun games (across the various needed emulators - MAME / Sega Model 2 / Sega Model 3 / Naomi / Atomiswave / PC Light-Gun Games)?


This might be a dumb question, but what would be the downside of using XP 32 bit for a dedicated gun game cab?

[P.H.U.]

I'll update that thread soon as I got my 3rd party Guncon's recently. I also picked up the Act Labs snub nose off eBay. But I may dump it right back on eBay since it is 1p only. Getting another one may be just as hard.

[jmcginley]

It's been a roller coaster of a day. Every time I read up on one of the solutions I get excited, and then let down for one reason or another (lag, expense, availability, etc).


I guess I'm coming back to my original question, this time directed at the guncon2. Would this essentially work the same on a CRT TV as it would on an arcade monitor? Aside from the resolutions being off of course. There's a free 38" CRT TV on Craigslist that I'd like to stick in a showcase cab.

I'll update that thread soon as I got my 3rd party Guncon's recently. I also picked up the Act Labs snub nose off eBay. But I may dump it right back on eBay since it is 1p only. Getting another one may be just as hard.

Ok awesome. I was reading this ancient thread and I'm definitely excited to see what you find. I'm pretty sure I'll be copying what you do.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35416.600.html

[P.H.U.]

It's been a roller coaster of a day. Every time I read up on one of the solutions I get excited, and then let down for one reason or another (lag, expense, availability, etc).


I guess I'm coming back to my original question, this time directed at the guncon2. Would this essentially work the same on a CRT TV as it would on an arcade monitor? Aside from the resolutions being off of course. There's a free 38" CRT TV on Craigslist that I'd like to stick in a showcase cab.

No. It would be different since the TV only has composite video that you can harvest for your light gun games. There is no RGB input that an arcade monitor would have. Still worth picking up that TV if you have the manpower handy.

[burn_654]

The guns should work fine in terms of accuracy, response etc. but you will only get a 480i signal over composite input, and the image will not be as sharp.

An arcade crt monitor can use rgb input so that it can drive the screen in 1:1 resolution of the original game. A good number of people hack a vga output from an amd/radeon card and a hacked driver called crt_emudriver. This combined with a version of Mame called Groovymame can accomplish pixel perfect arcade emulation on a crt. There is a subforum dedicated to that here.

One option is to find a crt television that has component (y/pb/pr) inputs and buy an rgb to component converter/transcoder. The signals are very close allowing easy conversion and you will likely never notice the difference - component looks great. This keeps the resolution and sharpness intact and would let you use a fairly common tv and have the games look great.

However if that sounds difficult then trying it with your basic composite input crt will get you started for lightguns, it just wouldn't look as good.