Oculus Rift

[shponglefan]

All I'm saying is don't rule out VR because you think it is too expensive and has no practical purpose.

I'm don't get why people don't think VR has a practical purpose.  3D virtual worlds is one of the most common threads in modern gaming and just begging for VR to up the immersion.

[jtslade]

Agreed, we have been making the best of it for FP games with keyboard and mouse or gamepad for a long time waiting for a decent replacement or next step


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[DudeRegular]

The line at CES has been at 2 hours to demo the Rift. Folks are hyped big time.

[shponglefan]

The line at CES has been at 2 hours to demo the Rift. Folks are hyped big time.

Oculus sounds like they are going all out at CES: These photos prove how popular the Oculus Rift has become.  That's not a booth, it's a bloody showroom.

Also, this report from a TIME author on trying VR at CES: I Finally Tried Virtual Reality and It Brought Me to Tears

[voltz]

I think I'm still going to wait till it hits $300 or something within the range it was promised originally.

Hopefully by then, our rigs will be powerful enough under that so-called $1,000 speculation they're telling us to throw in on top of that.

[DudeRegular]

The line at CES has been at 2 hours to demo the Rift. Folks are hyped big time.

Oculus sounds like they are going all out at CES: These photos prove how popular the Oculus Rift has become.  That's not a booth, it's a bloody showroom.

Also, this report from a TIME author on trying VR at CES: I Finally Tried Virtual Reality and It Brought Me to Tears

They have a line to get in line... The booth actually isn't all that big compared to many others. There are some really big setups here.

[dkersten]

Give it a year or two and the video card manufacturers will have it all standardized and there will be a dozen options out there ranging from super cheap to top end expensive, then buy from the lower middle area and you will get the best bang for your buck, like just about all technology.  Every major display manufacturer is working on their own version right now, and half the smartphone companies and even the video card guys are getting in on it.  Let them fight it out for a year or two then pounce.. Yes, the Rift is probably ahead of everyone right now, but you know as well as I do that the others will just take what they did and either improve on it or make it cheaper.

[shponglefan]

Give it a year or two and the video card manufacturers will have it all standardized and there will be a dozen options out there ranging from super cheap to top end expensive, then buy from the lower middle area and you will get the best bang for your buck, like just about all technology.  Every major display manufacturer is working on their own version right now, and half the smartphone companies and even the video card guys are getting in on it.  Let them fight it out for a year or two then pounce.. Yes, the Rift is probably ahead of everyone right now, but you know as well as I do that the others will just take what they did and either improve on it or make it cheaper.

Ditto'd.  I'm really curious to see how everything shakes out and where Oculus ends up in the market space, especially once the HTC Vive comes out.  It's exciting!

[thomas_surles]

well now I'm just looking forward to the VR porn...

[ark_ader]

I was at CES on Friday, and every major carrier had a VR headset of some type.

Most of what they were offering was similar to my Note2 and the Google VR. Samsung's offering was much better, but the queue was a mile long.  No Oculus at the Intel stand and Nvidia was car mapping oriented.

The show was really ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- this year, and I so miss COMDEX.  This year's theme was the car and drone, not the VR.  Maybe next year...

[Howard_Casto]

The line at CES has been at 2 hours to demo the Rift. Folks are hyped big time.

I'm sure we could find photos of people waiting in line to try the Virtual Boy as well. 

Again, it's all about the games.  Everyone is waiting to see how the rift turns out and will act accordingly.  The problem is since everyone is waiting, the rift won't sell well, and thus all these other companies are going to scale back their entry into 3d and thus 3d will suck in terms of games libraries, and nobody will buy it.  It's been this way since the 80's in terms of vr.... the tech has always been there, but nobody except Nintendo was willing to go all in.... force the consumers to use 3d, which is the only way an optional accessory sells well.... you make it mandatory.  We know how well that turned out. 

I mean on the pc end, the fact that since gaming started accessory after accessory has been released to replace the keyboard and mouse combo and yet the majority of people still use a mere keyboard and mouse, because it came with the pc, speaks volumes.

[edekoning]

I mean on the pc end, the fact that since gaming started accessory after accessory has been released to replace the keyboard and mouse combo and yet the majority of people still use a mere keyboard and mouse, because it came with the pc, speaks volumes.

Its also because that combo has proven time and time again to be the optimum way of playing many types of games. The main exceptions being steering wheels and flight sticks.

[pbj]

Its also because that combo has proven time and time again to be the optimum way of playing many types of games. The main exceptions being steering wheels and flight sticks.

Eh, don't know about that.  You develop games to work with the devices everyone already has.  I've been surprised at how much Xbox controller support has permeated PC games.

[dkersten]

Eh, don't know about that.  You develop games to work with the devices everyone already has.  I've been surprised at how much Xbox controller support has permeated PC games.

My perspective on this is that these days so many games are developed for the xbox (or playstation) and then ported to the PC, which leads to the console controller being the superior way to control the game.  Personally on any FPS or RPG nobody will ever beat a mouse/keyboard for me, but then I am worthless on an xbox controller but with a mouse and keyboard I have exceptional control...

I'm still waiting for mind control interfaces... then combine mind control interfaces with VR headsets and now you have something...

[shponglefan]

the tech has always been there, but nobody except Nintendo was willing to go all in.... force the consumers to use 3d, which is the only way an optional accessory sells well.... you make it mandatory.  We know how well that turned out.

VR has traditionally failed because of ergonomics.  The Virtual Boy is a prime example of that.  The most recent round of sets have solved a lot of those issues, at least to the extent that it's a lot more usable for a lot more people.  It still has further to go, but it's come along way since the 90's.

I do agree that games are going to be a big part of it.  That and porn.  But there are some intriguing titles either with VR support or in development.  So we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[Grasshopper]

Again, it's all about the games.  Everyone is waiting to see how the rift turns out and will act accordingly.  The problem is since everyone is waiting, the rift won't sell well, and thus all these other companies are going to scale back their entry into 3d and thus 3d will suck in terms of games libraries, and nobody will buy it.  It's been this way since the 80's in terms of vr.... the tech has always been there, but nobody except Nintendo was willing to go all in.... force the consumers to use 3d, which is the only way an optional accessory sells well.... you make it mandatory.  We know how well that turned out. 

I mean on the pc end, the fact that since gaming started accessory after accessory has been released to replace the keyboard and mouse combo and yet the majority of people still use a mere keyboard and mouse, because it came with the pc, speaks volumes.

I disagree. You don't need to write a game specifically with VR in mind (although you'll obviously get better results if you do). The majority of existing 3D games will work (at least to a degree) with the Oculus Rift straight out of the box, without any need for code changes. Most (and perhaps all) of the VR functionality can be handled automatically at the driver level.

In the late 90s I owned a graphics card that was able to generate a stereoscopic image on a regular CRT monitor by using some bundled polarising shutter glasses that you connected to the card. The reason I mention this is because almost all the 3D games I owned at the time that used the DirectX drivers (and that was almost all of them) automatically worked with the shutter glasses without any need for patches etc.

Most current games will immediately benefit from the stereoscopic effect provided by the Occulus Rift. Getting a game to respond to head movements possibly won't work straight out of the box. But it's going to be minimal effort for the developers to get that feature working as well.

[lilshawn]

they are going to have to sell these things at a loss. there is no way around it. you don't make your money on the hardware, you make it on the games.

crackbook already dumped 2 billion into the company to buy it....what's a couple million more? If they want to corner the market they are going to have to do something drastic. otherwise everyone is going to wait for the HTC vive to release.

[shponglefan]

they are going to have to sell these things at a loss. there is no way around it. you don't make your money on the hardware, you make it on the games.

crackbook already dumped 2 billion into the company to buy it....what's a couple million more? If they want to corner the market they are going to have to do something drastic. otherwise everyone is going to wait for the HTC vive to release.

They've claimed they are selling the units at cost.  Coupled with the R&D time already spent, they've already sunk millions.  I can imagine they might not be keen to sink more.

[shponglefan]

Most current games will immediately benefit from the stereoscopic effect provided by the Occulus Rift. Getting a game to respond to head movements possibly won't work straight out of the box. But it's going to be minimal effort for the developers to get that feature working as well.

From what I've seen of people trying this, it seems like it could actually screw with the depth perception.

Case in point is this jacksepticeye video of Skyrim through an Oculus.  It sounds like things off in the distance actually appear really close up in VR, contrary to how they are supposed to otherwise appear (see 1:00 and 3:15):

[menace]

Personally on any FPS or RPG nobody will ever beat a mouse/keyboard for me, but then I am worthless on an xbox controller but with a mouse and keyboard I have exceptional control...

amen brother!  we just an xbox one for christmas and I massively suck at Halo now (not that I was legend before but still...)

For you tech guys, how hard would it be to re-create older games to "mostly" work in VR?  If developers could tweak their existing libraries for an decent experience, it would give others the incentive to make games for a truly immersive experience...

I would love to play some old doom games in a VR rig--just to see..

[dkersten]

video games is a multi billion dollar industry, actually a bigger industry than Hollywood, so of course a display device that takes it to the next level will have its focus on games, but who knows where the technology, once as affordable as a 32" LCD, will lead?  With all new tech, it will start out with the early adopters as the only ones buying, and the manufacturers barely breaking even on sales.  Give it a few years to build a market and manufacturing can go bigger and bring the prices down.. Like I said before, aside from a lens and a strap, the tech is basically the same as a smartphone, so give it time to get every aspect of the hardware on a single chip and the prices will drop significantly..

[lilshawn]

xboxes only made money this generation...they sold the previous original and 360 models at a loss and planned to recover their money selling games.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1048129/xbox360cost.html

the only reason sony and MS made money current gen is cause they are such crap that they basically cost bugger all to produce.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/teardown-reveals-xbox-one-costs-90-more-than-ps4-to-make/1100-6416404/

[fallacy]

or you tech guys, how hard would it be to re-create older games to "mostly" work in VR?  If developers could tweak their existing libraries for an decent experience, it would give others the incentive to make games for a truly immersive experience...

I would love to play some old doom games in a VR rig--just to see..

Oculus was founded by John Carmack (Creator of Doom) The first demo to work with Oculus  Rift was John Carmack changing the code in Doom BFG to work in the rift.

That said you don’t want to play games made for the PC screen in the rift; VR is developing it’s own rules for VR and PC games made for the screen breaks all of them; making for a bad VR experience complete with nausea.


For everyone else VR is the future if you played any of the good demos made for the Rif such as “I Expect You To Die”
https://share.oculus.com/app/i-expect-you-to-die you would quickly realize all the potential VR has and would not claim it to be a fad. Just about everyone who says it’s a fad has never tried it. It's like trying to explain taste to someone and they come back with ya I smelled it a few times one time 1 time I glanced at it, I basically get the gist and know what I are talking about… no, no you really don’t.

[lilshawn]

VR requires a very specially designed and crafted game to operate correctly with your brain. trying to shoehorn a regular game into a true 3D environment just does not work right.

there is 3D like the crap you get in the movie theatre where you can tell they are intentionally doing things because... 3D

then there is 3D where the intention is to immerse you.

playing doom quake minecraft whatever is like 3D at the movie theatre. the perspective is all wrong...proportions are off... basically the whole thing looks fake to your brain. who runs all the time at 50 yards a second? who can jump 7 feet in the air? you brain just shuts down when playing these kinds of games in VR because it's so much ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- your brain will literally turn your experience 2d to deal with it. believe me, it happens.

games and demos that where designed with VR immersion in mind are just fine. things look right... the proportions are correct. movement is realistic.

a new genre of games has to be created. it's not going to appeal to everyone.

I pissed around plenty with the DK1 when I bought it...made a handfull of demos, played a pile more...but I'm glad I sold it when I did.

if these companies don't get off their ass and create content (because that is 9/10ths of the battle here not the hardware) it won't matter WHO has the better system or the cheaper system or the fastest whatever... no content means NOBODY will use them.

[Howard_Casto]

Yup it's all about software, like I've said multiple times in this thread. 

The video games industry, as a whole at least, is more conservative than it's ever been in it's entire history.  That means companies aren't willing to invest time and money on experimental hardware and games.  Understand that Sony and Microsoft are massive companies.  Yeah they have vr hardware in the works, but they have 20 or 30 other things in the works as well.  They show this stuff off at tech conferences to see if any companies are willing to bite.  It doesn't mean they are going to make actual games for the thing or even release it.  Look how little support the Kinect got from Microsoft and the pseye/ps move rig from Sony. 

The only hope in VR happening, like any innovation in video games since the 80's, comes from Nintendo.  Again, like I've said multiple times in this thread, they are the only company crazy/brave enough to go all in and design a system around mandatory VR and they make the bulk of the games on their systems in-house so there is a greater level of confidence from consumers if they make a system that it will actually be supported. 

Some people have guessed that the "NX" in the Nintendo NX stands for "new experience".  So there is a very slight chance that VR might happen.  Myself I don't see them doing that considering the Wii U's sales, but you never know.  Rest assured though, it probably isn't coming from Microsoft or Sony and Facebook doesn't even make games.

[Ond]

How many of you have actually tried an Oculus unit?  I was excited about it until I demo'd one a while back, it left me feeling really nauseous.  Not saying that might not improve with different software/hardware BUT, but I'd recommend trying one before shelling out the $$$.

[shponglefan]

How many of you have actually tried an Oculus unit?  I was excited about it until I demo'd one a while back, it left me feeling really nauseous.  Not saying that might not improve with different software/hardware BUT, but I'd recommend trying one before shelling out the $$$.

I have yet to try one myself, even though I was very close to buying one blind.  I figure if I do run into nausea issues, I could always resell.

That said, at this point I'm more than likely going to try before I buy given the relative cost of buying one.

[shponglefan]

Yup it's all about software, like I've said multiple times in this thread. 

The video games industry, as a whole at least, is more conservative than it's ever been in it's entire history.  That means companies aren't willing to invest time and money on experimental hardware and games.  Understand that Sony and Microsoft are massive companies.  Yeah they have vr hardware in the works, but they have 20 or 30 other things in the works as well.  They show this stuff off at tech conferences to see if any companies are willing to bite.  It doesn't mean they are going to make actual games for the thing or even release it.  Look how little support the Kinect got from Microsoft and the pseye/ps move rig from Sony.

The big difference between things like Kinect and VR is the relative shift in game design.  As I've said earlier in the thread, the basic concept ideal for VR (3D virtual worlds) has been a staple of gaming for 20 years now.  So it's not really that radical a shift from a 2D screen to a 3D VR headset in terms of design.  Naturally, it will require games to be designed for VR in order to get the whole stereoscopic imaging/scaling/etc to work properly.  But beyond that, it's not like having to invent an entirely new kind of game to take advantage of some new-fangled concept.

And on top of that there are various non-gaming avenues for VR as well including things like virtual tourism and porn.

It's certainly still going to require software, but I think VR has a broader scope than other novel forms of gaming tech.  And therefore it has a greater chance to succeed.

[dkersten]

How many of you have actually tried an Oculus unit?  I was excited about it until I demo'd one a while back, it left me feeling really nauseous.  Not saying that might not improve with different software/hardware BUT, but I'd recommend trying one before shelling out the $$$.

I've played FPS games for years and I have always had issues with nausea and motion sickness... I could only play games like that for so long before feeling crappy and sometimes even getting severe headaches or nausea.  But I could still play for quite a long time.  Then Fallout 4 came out, and within minutes I am fighting the nausea and dizziness.  I read up on it and it had to do with field of view.. The perspective was wrong and it was causing thousands of players who are sensitive to it to really get nauseous, especially with the bigger screens today that fill more of the peripheral vision. 

My point is that if the game is done right, it will minimize the nausea effect for those who are sensitive, but if the field of view is wrong, it will turn a great experience into a nausea inducing nightmare for even those who are usually fairly immune.  It has already been said here that games made specifically for it are a far better experience, and I believe that games dialed in specifically for this device will end up helping to sell it, whereas games that are not properly optimized for it will only paint an ugly picture for the future of VR. 

[pbj]

Yup it's all about software, like I've said multiple times in this thread. 

I don't think anyone intends to use one of these as a hammer, so I'm at a loss as to why you're compelled to keep repeating this.

[lilshawn]

okay...

if you feel nauseous when trying the rift it's one of 2 things:

the computer specs weren't up to handle keeping an absolute constant 60fps (the minimum for which has been upped now) if it gives you that drunk feeling in your head when you move...this is the issue. the system requirements where pretty steep over and above the recommended requirements for a game due to the additional processing the API had to do to the image on the fly. It's been a while since I've had my DK1 but I imagine a lot of that has been worked out through DK2. the framerate requirements for the CV1 have gone up to 90fps i've heard.

or mainly...

the system wasn't adjusted for your IPD causing you to have eye divergence whist using the system.

the rift wasn't really setup to be used with multiple users in mind. you set it up for you specifically. it's okay for a quick 30- 60 second demo to use out of whack settings...but for any sustained use beyond that you really need to properly setup the view for your eyes. Adjusting the rift for you is imperative.

I mean, quite a bit of the nausea is from the eyes seeing you're moving vs your ear not sensing you're moving... but this is really only apparent after hours of playing. I only had one such experience with the rift and it was coming back to the world after I think about 4 or 5 hours of play. real world felt weird. moving and walking around felt weird. riding in a car was absolutely nauseating and felt like I drank a halfsack. (I'm glad my wife drove cause I'm POSITIVE we would have crashed) But after an hour or so everything was fine.

[Ond]

How many of you have actually tried an Oculus unit?  I was excited about it until I demo'd one a while back, it left me feeling really nauseous.  Not saying that might not improve with different software/hardware BUT, but I'd recommend trying one before shelling out the $$$.

I've played FPS games for years and I have always had issues with nausea and motion sickness... I could only play games like that for so long before feeling crappy and sometimes even getting severe headaches or nausea.  But I could still play for quite a long time.  Then Fallout 4 came out, and within minutes I am fighting the nausea and dizziness.  I read up on it and it had to do with field of view.. The perspective was wrong and it was causing thousands of players who are sensitive to it to really get nauseous, especially with the bigger screens today that fill more of the peripheral vision. 

My point is that if the game is done right, it will minimize the nausea effect for those who are sensitive, but if the field of view is wrong, it will turn a great experience into a nausea inducing nightmare for even those who are usually fairly immune.  It has already been said here that games made specifically for it are a far better experience, and I believe that games dialed in specifically for this device will end up helping to sell it, whereas games that are not properly optimized for it will only paint an ugly picture for the future of VR.

Heh, I've been playing alot of Fallout 4 lately I'm a huge fan and sometimes on a large screen (120").  Mostly I play it on our 50" TV.  I've never had issues with nausea playing these FPS style games myself, I do get a bit queasy watching other people play them.   Oculus is different though, again I strongly recommend trying one with your preferred game if possible before buying one. I'm not trying to be a negative nancy here, I'm sure many folks will be just fine with them.  Most of the comments I'm reading here are speculative though, It's a bit like the Matrix, you can't explain it to someone else they just have to experience it for themselves.  My problem was with controls not matching my expected movement (turning) in game.  The controls I was using were poor, head tracking was fine but forward movement with turns was lousy.  Time will tell I suppose, it would be good to hear from someone who has used one with a good setup.

[Ond]

okay...

if you feel nauseous when trying the rift it's one of 2 things:

the computer specs weren't up to handle keeping an absolute constant 60fps (the minimum for which has been upped now) if it gives you that drunk feeling in your head when you move...this is the issue. the system requirements where pretty steep over and above the recommended requirements for a game due to the additional processing the API had to do to the image on the fly. It's been a while since I've had my DK1 but I imagine a lot of that has been worked out through DK2. the framerate requirements for the CV1 have gone up to 90fps i've heard.

or mainly...

the system wasn't adjusted for your IPD causing you to have eye divergence whist using the system.

the rift wasn't really setup to be used with multiple users in mind. you set it up for you specifically. it's okay for a quick 30- 60 second demo to use out of whack settings...but for any sustained use beyond that you really need to properly setup the view for your eyes. Adjusting the rift for you is imperative.

I mean, quite a bit of the nausea is from the eyes seeing you're moving vs your ear not sensing you're moving... but this is really only apparent after hours of playing. I only had one such experience with the rift and it was coming back to the world after I think about 4 or 5 hours of play. real world felt weird. moving and walking around felt weird. riding in a car was absolutely nauseating and felt like I drank a halfsack. (I'm glad my wife drove cause I'm POSITIVE we would have crashed) But after an hour or so everything was fine.

Oops my late post sorry,  this guy knows what he's talking about.

[Locke141]

I always thought Augmented reality was more compelling.

I would probably but a cast VR when it comes out.
http://castar.com/news/