Making sure I bought the correct items for control panel (Lots of Ultimarc)

[fettsvett201]

Hello

I'm about to pull a trigger on getting my 4 player control panel setup. Was hoping to list the items I was going to get, and see if there is anything I am missing/need to think about.

This is the control panel I am having built by NorthCoast Custom Arcade: http://www.mameroom.com/webstore_home.asp. They are also building the cabinet for me.



Here is the hardware I am thinking of:

Control Sticks:
4 black UltraStik 360 Oval Top with USB cable (Ultimarc)
2 UltraStik 360 Long Handle Shaft. For Oval Top (for the front control sticks) (Ultimarc)
4 Joystick Mounting Kits (5mm) (Ultimarc)

Buttons:  (Going for a TMNT arcade control panel color scheme for the buttons)
7 red Goldlead Pushbuttons (Ultimarc)
7 dark blue Goldleaf Pushbuttons (Ultimarc)
6 orange Goldleaf Pushbuttons (Ultimarc)
6 purple horizontal pushbuttons (happ) with mirco leaf microswitch (GroovyGameGear)

2 light blue Goldleaf Buttons (For spinner) (Ultimarc)
13 Ultralux Translucent Illuminated Pushbuttons. Includes LED (RGB White) (Ultimarc) (This is for the four player buttons, 5 admin controls, and 4 insert coins on the sides of the panel)

I know I don't need 5 buttons for admin tasks. I only really need one and can just hold it and push another button to get the desired result. I think it would just look cooler this way (especially since they light up). I also plan on making labels for the buttons so other players know what the buttons do.

Trackball:
U-TRAK FlushMount Arcade Trackball (pearl) (Ultimarc)
U-Trak RGB LED Illumination Kit (Ultimarc)

Spinner:
SpinTrak Rotary Control (Ultimarc)
Knob for SpinTrak (red and silver) (Ultimarc)

Control Interface:
I-PAC Ultimate I/O Interface with full wiring harness (Ultimarc) (Players 1 and 2 buttons, buttons for players/coins/admin, trackball and spinner)
Mini-PAC Opti. With Harness and USB cable (Ultimarc) (Players 3 and 4)

Light Guns (2):
AimTrak Light Gun OEM Electronics Kit (Ultimarc)
AimTrak Recoil Kit (Ultimarc)
Gun Assembly for Time Crisis 1 & 2 and Point Blank (Black) (ArcadeSpareParts.com)
2 holsters, 2 power cords for AimTrak recoil kit (ebay)

Coin Door:
4 player coin door (ebay) http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-PLAYER-NEW-FULL-SIZE-COIN-DOOR-WITH-YELLOW-REJECT-BUTTONS-/361197942336
4 red coin eject buttons (ebay)
4 coin mechs (ebay)http://www.ebay.com/itm/COIN-MECH-882-TOKEN-MECH-TOP-QUALITY-/380818924208] [url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/COIN-MECH-882-TOKEN-MECH-TOP-QUALITY-/380818924208[/url]

Some quick questions. Will the above equipment for the coin door allow me to light up the coin eject buttons? What else would I need?
Could I make the coin eject buttons glow different colors like the RGB buttons and trackball? What would I have to do to achieve that?

The LED buttons come in ether 250mm or 500mm wiring. Not sure which to get. What is the difference

Overall, is this a viable build, or could I improve on it? Will the control panels cover everything that would have to be wired?

I know you must get a lot of these, but I'm really close to the finish line and don't want to stumble now.

Thanks
Steve

[aldub516]

I'm fairly new here.. But I promise you're gonna get ripped for using 6 buttons on the 3 and 4 player... And also, having the 3 and 4 player buttons on an angle is a big no no. I personally wish everyone in the world had wood working skills because it kills me to see someone pay a company to build that panel

[fettsvett201]

Thanks for the info for players 3 and 4. I will reduce the buttons to 4 each. The reason they are angled is because the control panel is not a rectangle. The front left and right are cut at an angle. I figure this is so all four players get some more room to move around and they are all centered on the monitor. Since they are angled, it makes sense to me that their control layout would match.

I looked online for other 4 player control panels and a lot also do the angled thing. Is the no angles controls a preference thing or is there a logistical reason? I guess I could get rid of two buttons and then straighten out the buttons, but would like to hear from you (and other opinions) why it should be straight vs angled.

Thanks for the input
Steve

[BGoulette]

You can do what you like, but while the buttons should be fine angled, you'd want to keep the joysticks perpendicular to the monitor. You're not looking at your hands while you play, and instinctually, your brain interprets "up" as "toward the monitor," etc.

[yotsuya]

I'm fairly new here.. But I promise you're gonna get ripped for using 6 buttons on the 3 and 4 player... And also, having the 3 and 4 player buttons on an angle is a big no no.

I don't think he's going to get ripped. No one cares enough anymore to say anything.

[fettsvett201]

I should have put in the original post that I knew there were very few arcade games that require more then four buttons for players 3 and four. It was more for games on Steam or console's that require more then four buttons but are fun party games.

BGoulette: Good point. Ill make sure the controls are correct relative to the monitor.

Steve

[yotsuya]

I should have put in the original post that I knew there were very few arcade games that require more then four buttons for players 3 and four. It was more for games on Steam or console's that require more then four buttons but are fun party games.

BGoulette: Good point. Ill make sure the controls are correct relative to the monitor.

Steve

Yeah, if you have an intended purpose for those extra buttons, then have at it. It's good that you did your research.

[Aceldamor]

I thought the only reason to have more than 4 on p3 and p4 was for consoles. IIRC Jamma boards don't support more than 4 buttons for p3 and p4.

Everyone here has their own personal preference on what makes a cab look good, but in the end do what ya want. It's your machine, not anyone else's. 

[BadMouth]

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,148040.0.html

EDIT: guess I'll just repost in every thread....

Been covered ad nauseum, but to make sure you don't start down the wrong path:

No standard MAME arcade game uses more than 6 buttons.
Some people add a 7th, so they can have the Neo Geo 4 in a row/properly placed Mortal Kombat 3 run button.
For the Neo Geo games, I've found that I prefer to use my thumb to hit the first button in the second row rather than having 4 buttons in a row.
By default, MAME assumes you have the following layout.
123
456
Lay out your buttons like that and most games will be mapped correctly by default.
I'm telling you this because some younger builders like putting 123 on the bottom. 
You can do that, but you'll end up having to remap all the games that require more than 3 buttons.

Only two 4-player arcade games in MAME use more than 3 buttons per player.  Those are the (2?) Dungeons and Dragons games and they use 4.
Guilty Gear Isuka on Demul emulator uses 5, but the game is generally considered the worst of the franchise.

Player 3 and 4 joysticks should be mounted square and not angled.  You can angle the buttons so the player stands at an angle, but keep the joystick oriented the same way as player 1 and 2.  Look at where the arrows point on original 4 player arcade machines and search the forum for "angled joysticks" for further explanation.

The reason for not angling this sticks is that people instinctively move the stick the direction they want the character to go even if they're standing at an angle.
Look at the original 4 player arcade machines and look at where the UP arrows are pointing for players 3 and 4.
People can adjust to playing on angled sticks, but it's not as intuitive.  It sucks for guests who haven't used the cab before.

People on here rail on it because it's a mistake that gets made so often to the point that most examples of DIY builds found online are wrong.
It just gets annoying seeing the same mistake made over and over again.
It's not like other things that are a personal preference or aesthetics.  It really is a mistake.

If you want to have 6 buttons for players 3 and 4 to enjoy some Castle Crashers or console games, understandable.
If you still want to angle the joysticks so be it, but don't say you weren't warned.

[fettsvett201]

@badmouth

Those are some really good points. I would not have though of that. I guess the only reason the sticks were angled to begin with is that is the default setup for the 4 player control panel I was going to get. I will take another look at my design and figure out the stick situation.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Really helps

Steve

Edit: Looking at it, the sticks can stay where they are. Ill just make sure that I make them perpendicular to the screen during installation. Thanks again

[DeLuSioNal29]

Looks similar to my layout I made years ago.


Where are you located? - I'm in the process of down-sizing my panel to two players and I'll probably sell the empty 4 player CP for cheap.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=74378.0

DeLuSioNaL29

[fettsvett201]

Nice Control Panel.

I live in Indiana. I see from your profile your in Connecticut. If I was closer to you, I would definitely consider it.

Steve

[fettsvett201]

@DeLuSioNal29

I really like your layout on your control board and have checked out your build via your link. I am currently reorganizing my CP to somewhat mirror yours.

Was wondering where you got your flight stick from? Also, did you use the 4 player joystick/flight stick often enough that it was worth putting on the board? I like having them but not sure how often they will be actually used.

[TapeWormInYourGut]

To answer your questions.. The 250mm or 500mm is the wire length, 10" or 20". Next, the coin doors usually come with bulbs. If you want to hook the lights up to your ultimate IO, then you will need to replace them with 5v LEDs. Finally, that coin door says that it includes mechs, right? If so then you don't need to buy them separately again.

Just a few things worth mentioning, since I have a similar hardware listing as you.

1. You don't really need 2 power cords for the aimtraks. You just need a 24v power supply that can output at least 4 amps. Each gun uses about 2. This might be cheaper for you.

2. Be prepared to pay a lot to have someone hack up the arcade guns. I personally wouldn't hack those 2 guns for less than $300 in labor.  The guns and aimtraks are already pretty expensive, so the total cost is a pretty penny. Keep in mind that you will probably end up re-calibrating the guns each time you want to use them. If someone shorter plays, or if you move over a few inches, then the guns will need to be re-calibrated. ALSO, you don't need the solenoids that come with the recoil kit if you are buying those arcade guns. You should just use the ones inside the guns. Might be able to get a discount from ultimarc if you can exclude those.

3a. I noticed that you are going to use ultrastik 360's. You might want to get the "Mag-stik Plus" instead. Do you plan on playing games that require more than 8 directions? The mag-stick plus will feel better. I have u360's and the joysicks just aren't the same. Playing fighters takes a lot to get accustomed to. If you have a game console, then it is like trying to play a fighter with the analog stick instead of the d-pad. It is a bit awkward. If you are getting the u360's for something like Gauntlet Legends in mame, then you are going to need a PC with a 4.5-5ghz intel processor. Just letting you know because unless that company puts together a top-of-the-line PC with an overclocked CPU, then you probably aren't going to be playing that. I am not sure what other arcade games would need u360's that are worth playing. I assume that you are not getting them for console emulators because you only have the 6 buttons.

3b. As far as mounting the joysticks on an angle... If you are using ultrastik 360s, then this only matters for analog games. The u360 can reprogram the 8 directions. So if you don't like it, then just change it in software. Otherwise I personally would not mount on an angle.

3c. The joystick mounting kit is for bottom mounted joysticks. If you are bottom mounting the u360's, then you will probably need the extended shafts for players 3 and 4 too. Your oval tops won't fit. I top mounted my joysticks, in which case no special hardware is needed. Just bolts and nuts that you can get for a few dollars at home depot. That would save you like $50 because you won't need the extended shafts or bottom-mounting hardware.

[fettsvett201]

@TapeWormInYourGut

Thank you very much for your insight. I will adjust a few things accordingly

[Token]

I think everything that needed to be addressed has been said. Except that if you plan on using the trackball for gaming, you might have problems sweeping it to the right with the P2 joystick right there.

I like the TMNT color choice for your player buttons.

Not sure there is a good reason for two buttons by the spinner. I think the spinner would play better if it was above P1's buttons. Better play-ability often results in a loss of symmetry.

It's absurd that NorthCoast Arcade charges what they charge but don't competently advise clients on these layouts.

[fettsvett201]

@Token

I have updated my layout a bit ago to kinda match Delusional's panel. It address the trackball problem in that the spinner on the top would get in the way if I was spinning forwards hard (like golf or bowling). I'm not too worried about the stick on the right.

Final questions before I post my last layout to make sure I have thought of everything.

I read that the Mag Stick Plus was built for metal control panels. I am getting a wooden panel and may need a longer shaft. Problem is I prefer the oval/bat tops compared to the ball tops and the longer shafts are only ball top. (Except for the classic 4 way games like pacman and such).  Is there a shaft I can buy that uses the oval/bat top?

I am also thinking of getting a 4 way LED Joystick (going the GGG way of a Stainless VersaBall Shaft, Electric ICE balltop, Slipwire with RGB LED and resistors, and joystick base). With the admin/player/coin buttons also being light up, should I look at the LED Wiz for all of them? It looks like there are a LOT of different colors you can do with the LED Wiz.

[TapeWormInYourGut]

I guess if you are not going to top mount, then maybe the MagiStick Plus isn't going to be an option for you. You said that you want to have a company build the panel for you. Are they unwilling to top mount the joysticks or is that just your preference? Also why are you spec'ing out the controls if they are building it? Just curious. They probably keep a supply of everything needed.

You can get those GGG 4-way joysticks if you want, but you are eliminating all the 8-directional games. That is fine if you aren't going to play games that use them, like fighters (mortal kombat, etc...). You will be mostly limited to games from the 80's. The reason I mentioned the MagiStick Plus, is because you can switch between 4 and 8 directions by pulling up on the joystick and turning it.

If you get the LED-Wiz instead of the ultimate IO, then you will also need to get a controller board. The LED-Wiz only handles LEDs. It doesn't handle your input. I would just stick with the ultimate IO because it does both. Also, the LED-Wiz doesn't have more colors. You probably just saw a picture with RGB buttons hooked up to them. You can hook the same buttons to the ultimate IO. Keep in mind that RGB buttons will use 3 LED outputs instead of 1. So if the LED-wiz has 32 outputs, then you will need several LED-Wiz boards if you want to go with RGB buttons. The Ultimate IO you have listed, has 96 LED outputs. So you can have up to 32 RGB buttons hooked up to it, or LED joytsicks or whatever.

[jeremymtc]

I read that the Mag Stick Plus was built for metal control panels. I am getting a wooden panel and may need a longer shaft. Problem is I prefer the oval/bat tops compared to the ball tops and the longer shafts are only ball top. (Except for the classic 4 way games like pacman and such).  Is there a shaft I can buy that uses the oval/bat top?

I guess if you are not going to top mount, then maybe the MagiStick Plus isn't going to be an option for you.

Mag Sticks work just fine for bottom mounting, provided that they're in a routed pocket. There are no issues with lever length in a routed wood panel; the levers are about the same length as any other IL or Happ conventional joystick. The only real difference in terms of fitment are the dimensions of the mounting plate (though adapters do exist to convert a Mag Stick or T-Stick to a "standard" Happ mounting).