Co-op Classics conversion project

[vwalbridge]

Since you can't be bothered to use google...

I like you Neph. 

[opt2not]

It's really not that hard to cut a new CP. Don't sell yourself short!

You can rent tools from places like Home Depot, and they can also cut wood for you to get you closer to the shape you want.
I recently

a top-panel one of my projects, and it less than 4 hours to complete. I'm no woodworking expert either. All I used was a electric jigsaw, a router, and a drill.
I saved some time by taking the overall measurement of the CP to Home Depot and got them to cut it to size.

Shaping the corners with a jigsaw is super easy, (and electric jigsaws are cheap, both new and used!)  if you do a couple test cuts you'll see how quickly you can get the hang of it. A router for cutting t-molding is also really easy since you're just tracing the shape around the edges, you just need to get your hands on a slot-cutting bit.
Also, routing out the joystick slots doesn't need to be exactly precise. I did

for mine and not only did it worked out well, it also took less than 5 minutes to do. And of course, the holes for buttons and joysticks are no-brainers. After that, it was just paint and applying the overlay that took the rest of the time.

In the end, the outcome is a lot cleaner and you have a nicer panel that fits your needs rather than having to re-engineer the existing one. It's worth the small effort.

Just a suggestion, but like you said, it's your machine.  People come here to this forum to discuss  project options, learn new techniques/skills, and get the advice from some of the experienced guys here. Not only showing-off a build without anyone's input.

[Nephasth]

Since you can't be bothered to use google...

I always thought they should be called 48ways since dead center doesnt actually go a "way"

Right, we don't have 5 way or 9 way joysticks.

Agree, but it is what it is.

[stigzler]

Thanks Neph. I can be bothered to use google, but it was more conversational than a serious fact finding question. I do have to say I think youre one of the rudest individuals in this hobby. If you have asperegers, then please ignore that, it wont be by choice or conciously on your part. If not, then youre probably just a rude man who is unlikely to change. I shall endeavor, henceforth, to persue a policy of selective attention and leave you and possibly others to it.

Feels more like 4chan than a grown ups site recently...

Sorry OP to crash that into your build thread and any futures will be related to it. Just wasnt going to take that lying down.

[Nephasth]

Thanks Neph. I can be bothered to use google, but it was more conversational than a serious fact finding question. I do have to say I think youre one of the rudest individuals in this hobby. If you have asperegers, then please ignore that, it wont be by choice or conciously on your part. If not, then youre probably just a rude man who is unlikely to change. I shall endeavor, henceforth, to persue a policy of selective attention and leave you and possibly others to it.

Feels more like 4chan than a grown ups site recently...

Sorry OP to crash that into your build thread and any futures will be related to it. Just wasnt going to take that lying down.

Use the ignore feature if you're that thin skinned.

[JoeStrout]

It's really not that hard to cut a new CP. Don't sell yourself short!
...
In the end, the outcome is a lot cleaner and you have a nicer panel that fits your needs rather than having to re-engineer the existing one. It's worth the small effort.

Just a suggestion, but like you said, it's your machine.  People come here to this forum to discuss  project options, learn new techniques/skills, and get the advice from some of the experienced guys here. Not only showing-off a build without anyone's input.

Understood, and indeed I do appreciate suggestions... I'm just not going to take all of them.  I currently have no reason to believe we will hate the layout we can achieve easily, and facing a mountain of other challenges, I'm not going to give myself another until I see that it's actually necessary.  And, this isn't something that has to be done first — I can go back and replace this CP top at any point in the future, without affecting the rest of the build one bit.

Knowing myself as I do, the great risk in this project isn't going to be that I wish one of the buttons was half an inch to the left... it's going to be that we never finish the dang thing.  So, while I certainly do appreciate both advice and encouragement, please don't take offense if I occasionally choose to go my own way.

[opt2not]

No problem man.  If anything, you can always weigh your options later on and decide to revisit it.  For myself, that second CP was done years after I finished the project based on feedback I was given as well as how the cabinet was used.  The cabinet started off as a 4-player, but it wasn't really played that way. Most of the time people just wanted to play the 2 player games.
Anyway, you can always come back to it for upgrades in the future.

I give credit where credit is due. I am also allergic to ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- and stupidity. I don't come here for the circle jerks some do...

Besides, you know nothing of things and favors I have done for many members here over the years. Get over yourself.

Neph's good peeps, even though a bit prickly at times.
But really, people should be using the wiki more. There is a lot of information there that could save people's time and annoyance.

[stigzler]

Agreed. The wikis a great resource and may be useful to you OP if youre looking to chase down some details for your build.

Interesting extract of an edited post too...projective identification at work. 

[Nephasth]

Was just trying to be a little nicer, but a ---smurfette--- will be a ---smurfette---...

[stigzler]

And again.... . Classic. 

[JoeStrout]

OK, we've made some more progress.  It took all day, but we finally got the four extra holes drilled to give each player a 4th button.  Here's what the CP looks like now:



We've also made up four cable harnesses, on for each player, to connect to the U-HID which we're planning to mount to the top of the CP.  Here's a shot of the yoots at work: older one installing buttons and joysticks, while the younger one makes cables:



So they're having fun with it already.  Can't wait until it's actually playable... but now we need to get a proper crimping tool, because I've realized that the double-crimp insulated quick disconnects I bought are not going to be crimped by pliers or wrench.  So, after lunch it's off to the hardware store to see if they have one; if not, it'll be Amazon Prime, and back to work on Tuesday.

[JoeStrout]

We now have the first of four cable harnesses all wired up:



Unfortunately, it doesn't work.  We're still scratching our heads about that.

[cjberg]

Have you decided to go with the Mac or the Pi? Im in the middle of a Pi build, but with your cabinet if you go with the Mac, you should be able to run the 4 player games that require a chd, like Gauntlet Dark Legacy/Legends. The mac will give you more/newer options. The Pi is stuck in an old version of mame and is limited to the classics(imho).

Cj

[JoeStrout]

I haven't decided yet.  Ironically our mini-cabinet based on the Mac seemed to have more stutters and framerate glitches than I've observed on the Pi (though the Pi isn't without its own problems).  And we're only interested in the classics for this cabinet anyway.

But I'm leaning towards the Mac anyway, just because it's a lot easier to set up and configure, and if I end up needing to write my own launcher, I can do that in Unity.  (Unity doesn't compile for the Pi, so I'd have to use pygame or some such there.)

[JoeStrout]

OK, we've made more progress on the control panel... all the buttons are wired up now, except for the four start buttons at the top.



Probably tomorrow we'll hook it up to a Mac or Pi and test it all out.

[JoeStrout]

More progress!  We have a Mac Mini hooked up to a 20" (4:3) LCD, and all the games we want to play are now functional.  The screen is a little smaller than I would like, but it'll do for now.  The controls are all working nicely.  There's just one thing missing:

What do we do for coin buttons?

The cabinet actually has two coin slots, which mostly work (we got about a 75% success rate dropping quarters down them; the other 25% of the time, they quarters get caught and you have to push the coin return).  So, one option I guess would be to keep these, and keep a jar of quarters next to the machine for when kids want to play.

But we're not very excited about that option for a couple of reasons.  First, the coins sometimes getting stuck and having to push the coin return is a PITA.  I'm not even certain kids these days always understand how to do that!  Second, there are only two coin slots, and I'm pretty sure some of the games require 3 or 4.

Now, some of the games that require 3 or 4 don't actually require a start button (you just hit Jump to start or whatever).  So we could use the start button on the CP as an insert-coin button in those cases.  But I'm not crazy about being inconsistent from game to game, either.

So we're thinking about getting a set of (4) Coin Drop Replacement Buttons.  I used one of these before on a mini bartop cab, and it was great; all my beta testers (i.e kids' friends) immediately understood what it was for and how to use it.  (Except for the doofus who spammed it 99 times.)

Anybody have opinions you'd like to share on this?

[Xiaou2]

The coin mechs most likely just need to be cleaned and adjusted.    There is an adjustment screw, or a few, ... depending on the model.
(usually nearest the top of the mech)

 As for the amount of coins..  Games allow you to set the prices internally.   Either via the software Dip Swtiches (Access them using Tab key) ..  and or using the Service Menu settings (F2 or F3... I believe)

[JoeStrout]

So you would advocate tweaking the coin mechs, and keeping a jar of coins near the machine for when kids come over to play?

I guess that would work.  I'm torn.  There is something satisfying about dropping a coin into a machine, but that's probably just nostalgia; kids these days probably don't feel the same way.  It would keep kids from spamming credits, and I suppose could also provide a natural time limit (if I ever wanted to impose such).  On the other hand, simple buttons seem a lot less fiddly.

Well, I'll talk it over with the boys and see if we can reach some consensus.  Thanks for the input!

[harveybirdman]

Tons of ways to go man.

Micro switch behind the rejects to add credits is slick.

I have a volcano button on the top of my cabinet to add coins.

It's ugly but you could put a coin up button on the panel.

[JoeStrout]

Well, the other problem I just noticed is that X-Men seems to require four coin slots.  My cabinet only has two.  How should I deal with that?  Have one slot trigger both Coin 1 and Coin 2, and the other one trigger Coin 3 and Coin 4?  Or replace the coin door with a 4-slot door?  Or something else?

Happy to hear wisdom from those who have walked this path before...

[harveybirdman]

Set the coin ups for that one individual  game such that 1 and 2 share the same coin up and 2 and 4 do.

You are running mame yes?

[JoeStrout]

HELP!  I'm stumped.

I've got a 21" 4:3 aspect ratio LCD monitor.  It's smaller than I would like but as big as I'm able to get.  And it actually feels just fine when playing.

The problem is, it looks terrible:



I tried making a frame for it out of foam board, but that looked terrible too.

I really like the way the default bezel comes right up at the edge and sits between the glass and the supporting frame, giving the whole thing a finished look.  The bezel is simply too small.  So I need to put something between it and the screen, that doesn't look like a summer camp craft project.

But I just don't see what that something is.

Any advice on how to make this not suck?

[stigzler]

All that work you've put in.... by hook or by crook - get a bigger display, even if it's saving the pennies for a few months - put the thing on hold. I'd worry about you regretting it later down the path (bit like painting the Mona Lisa with a red hat).

[DudeRegular]

Agree with stigzler. Get the bigger screen man.

[severdhed]

i agree, save for a bigger monitor.   what size is that bezel for?  check your local goodwill/thrift stores, you can usually pick up a 26" crt tv for around $20.  I don't know what kind of video output options you have with a mac mini (probably not a lot).

i picked up both a 26" and a 32" sony trinitron televisions at goodwill for $20 each.  both had component video inputs and looked pretty good.  i had an older pc with an ati video card that had an adapter for component output, and just had to design everything for low resolution.  it was a little difficult navigating windows xp at 640x480, but the mame games looked great.

[JoeStrout]

Well you guys aren't much help. 

I do intend to put in a bigger monitor — though my current plan is to get an obnoxiously large flatscreen TV and mount it sideways (I've taken some measurements and it ought to fit).  Adding a CRT would double the (already barely-manageable) weight and increase the total power usage by about 10X.

But the question is, what can I do by Thanksgiving?  I've got a bunch of relatives coming (including a lot of young 'uns) and I want this to look as good as it can by then.

I guess I'll try just putting a mask around the screen, behind the bezel.  Foam board at first, though if that looks half-decent I may try routing some wood and see if I can get it to look 3/4-decent.

Just wondered if there was some other clever trick people use in this situation.

[vwalbridge]

my current plan is to get an obnoxiously large flatscreen TV and mount it sideways

+1  get the biggest flatscreen that fits in there and mount it vertically. In my option this is not only the easiest but also the fastest.

CRT would be the most authentic, but if you are in a rush, you can slap a HDTV in there and be done with it.  Keep in mind that the viewable area might be lower than where center is on the screen. If/when you get at that point, retroarch can help with that.

[yamatetsu]

Two quick options which both involve ditching your bezel.

1) Take a piece of plexi, cut it to size, mark out the monitor's viewing area, tape that and spray-paint the rest black. Put monitor and bezel into cab.

2) Make a cardboard bezel like I did in my build : http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,140758.msg1464346.html#msg1464346. Put monitor and bezel into cab, cover with tinted plexi.

[yotsuya]

There's nothing wrong with that screen. Just do what Yamatetsu recommends. It'll be fine.

[mgb]

It will look really odd with that tiny screen.
You'd be better off going with a 25 or 27" TV in there now

[yamatetsu]

I do intend to put in a bigger monitor ...

But the question is, what can I do by Thanksgiving?

The too small monitor is just a quick temporary fix.

[mgb]

I do intend to put in a bigger monitor ...

But the question is, what can I do by Thanksgiving?

The too small monitor is just a quick temporary fix.

Oh, I missed that part
carry on then

although there's still that option of purchasing a larger hdtv on sale.
like one of those cheap ones from Tiger Direct

[Yenome]

Did anyone ever make a calculator to see how big of a horizontal screen you would have if you turned a 16:9 tv vertical. from what i found seems would need a 42in screen to get about a 27" 4:3 for mame anyway. Thats if im correct. but then that puts you into a tv that is like 36" wide which is great if you want to do a dynamic marque then you just need a layout file to put the marque image at the top of the screen and your game image towards the bottom. This will probably be the way i will go if i ever get to build my full size cab.

[Aceldamor]

Was that the GL that was on the AZ craig's list the other day?

Cool to see you keeping the aesthetic on this one, keep up the good work. If you're struggling for a monitor, check out the local Goodwills here in the valley. They sell CRT TVs for a dollar. You can find a large enough one to decase and mount in that bad boy.

[severdhed]

i fully intended to post this in my first response, then i forgot.

if you want to make a quick/cheap bezel that looks good, then cut a piece of plexiglass, mask off the screen area with tape, and then spray paint the back side of it with black spraypaint.  i used a  $ .97 can of flat black walmart brand spray paint on mine and i'm very happy with it.  it is super glossy and shiny on the front. 

I tried the posterboard and foambaord methods first, and they looked horrible.  this method is pretty simple and looks great.

[mgb]

Did anyone ever make a calculator to see how big of a horizontal screen you would have if you turned a 16:9 tv vertical. from what i found seems would need a 42in screen to get about a 27" 4:3 for mame anyway. Thats if im correct. but then that puts you into a tv that is like 36" wide which is great if you want to do a dynamic marque then you just need a layout file to put the marque image at the top of the screen and your game image towards the bottom. This will probably be the way i will go if i ever get to build my full size cab.

There are a couple of tv comparison calculators like that online.
Off the top of my head right now I don't remember specifically what they were called
But I remember using  one that compares quite nice

[vwalbridge]

Token's Moonshot Build might help describe what size screen you can achieve from a vertical TV mount.

Spoiler: A 42" TV is the equivalent of a 25" 4:3 display whether it is vertically or horizontally displayed

[JoeStrout]

Thanks, guys, those are some great ideas!  I'll see if I can find a source for plexiglas (that's a pretty big honking piece of plastic) here in Tucson, and try the reverse-spraypainting trick.  Failing that, I'll try the cardboard bezel approach.

And yeah, after Thanksgiving I will definitely look at the vertical bigscreen TV.

[severdhed]

you should be able to pick up plexiglass and any home improvement store (lowes, home depot, etc)

[harveybirdman]

Yeah and this is the one time I could endorse acrylic over polycarbonate. It's much cheaper.  Still cut it with a router if you can.