gawd I hate 16:9 aspect ratio monitors!

[JoeStrout]

I am the proud new owner of an old and mostly complete Gauntlet Legends cabinet, sans monitor.  Now I'm trying to find an appropriate screen.

The bezel leaves about 21" by 16" visible, and blocks off a bit of the surrounding space.  I don't have a 4:3 aspect ratio display that big... I'm not sure an LCD display has ever been made that big (and I don't really want to dig up a giant CRT for this; the cabinet is almost too heavy to move even when empty!).

So I figure I'll get a wider monitor, and let the bezel cover the sides.  The trouble is, at the 16:9 aspect ratio which all display makers seem to have adopted (or worse), you have to go really wide to get 16" of height.  A 32" 16:9 monitor would have a height of 15.7", which I may be able to live with... but that beast is almost 28" wide.  That's not going to fit.

Are there any ideas I'm overlooking?  I've even thought about installing a projector and rear-projection screen, but I can't imagine that would produce decent contrast in a normally lit room.  Does anybody make decent-sized 4:3 flatscreens?  Is there some other clever way I can use the full height of my bezel without screen sticking out the sides of the cabinet?

[Malenko]

Lets MATH!

So for a 16" tall vertical picture displayed at 4:3 on a 16:9 TV you'd need a 34" TV. That would display a 16.6" vertical and 22.1" horizontal picture in 4:3 mode.
A 32" TV would only display a 4:3 image 15.6" tall and 20.8" wide
A 30" TV would only display a 4:3 image 14.6" tall and 19.6" wide


You should measure the internal sides of the cab and get the biggest TV that will fit that width. I put a 28" LCD in a MK machine that was as big as I could get so I did loose some vertical picture area. You could always remove the bezel from the TV so you can squeeze a slightly bigger one in there. but you dont have much choice on rpelacement

[JoeStrout]

Yep, I did the math.  That's how I know that the 32" TV I would like to have (to display a 4:3 image as close as possible to full height) is going to be too wide.

But yes, when I get home I need to measure that cab, and then, as you say, I guess I'll just get the biggest TV that will fit and live with it being a little smaller (vertically) than I would like.  I guess I could rout out the insides of the cabinet to get a little more, and make a nice secure mounting for it at the same time, though this may require more skill with a router than I actually possess.

I just wish there were some alternative.  I guess if I were really desperate I could still find a 27" CRT, but those weigh roughly 100 lbs, and draw more power than the rest of the system combined.  Hmph.

[dmckean]

What is the inside width of the cabinet? What's the widest thing you could fit?

[JoeStrout]

OK, just measured.  The inside is 25" exactly.  So, that's going to be a 28" 16:9 monitor, for a display height of 13.7".  That's like an inch and a half of unused space at the top and bottom of the bezel.  Dang!

[Malenko]

Just tint the glass


heres the 28" LCD in a 25" opening (MK4 cab)



The fit was so tight that the monitor could have been held in place by friction. The monitor bezel sides were exactly the same size as the glass batons.

[dmckean]

I think if you decased a 30" 16:10 monitor like this:

http://www.amazon.com/First-F301GD-2560x1600-S-IPS-Monitor/dp/B00HCWVUXK

you could probably just squeeze it in there. That would give you a 17" height.

[Malenko]

for that kind of scratch I'd find a nice tri-sync CRT and not worry about the aspect ratio

[dmckean]

for that kind of scratch I'd find a nice tri-sync CRT and not worry about the aspect ratio

+1

[yotsuya]

for that kind of scratch I'd find a nice tri-sync CRT and not worry about the aspect ratio

+2

[JoeStrout]

Sorry, I'm still new to all this... can somebody explain what a "tri-sync CRT" is and where I would find one?

Surely you don't mean this sort of beast?

I really don't want to add 100 lbs to my barely-movable cabinet, but with all those +1's and +2's flying about, I guess I have to consider it!

[JoeStrout]

Just tint the glass

heres the 28" LCD in a 25" opening (MK4 cab)

Thanks for the pic!  Yep, that's what I was imagining.  Yeah, there are ways I can mask off the ugly, but the thing is that a 28" 16:9 screen is going to be the same image size as a 23" 4:3 screen... four inches smaller than the 27" screen the cabinet was designed for.  It just burns my biscuit to throw up such a small display, especially when I hope to have four kids crowded around it at once.

I know, I know, I have to choose... but I just want to make sure this is a complete list of options to choose from:

• 16:9 monitor, letterboxed to make a 23" display
• 27" CRT, adding 100 lbs and 140 Watts to the cabinet
• homebrew rear-projection screen, with probable low contrast in a normally-lit room

I'm currently leaning towards option 3 (if I remove the bezel, I could make that a 31" display!).  But I'd love to learn that there's an option 4 (that doesn't suck).

[yotsuya]

Just go with 2. I put a 25" into my HS-5 Dynamo for NBA Jam, and it's awesome. Sure, the cabinet is heavy, but how often are you going to move it?

[dmckean]

Sorry, I'm still new to all this... can somebody explain what a "tri-sync CRT" is and where I would find one?

Surely you don't mean this sort of beast?

I really don't want to add 100 lbs to my barely-movable cabinet, but with all those +1's and +2's flying about, I guess I have to consider it!

http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=200_201&products_id=2787

Like this, but don't pay that much for one.

[dmckean]

Just tint the glass

heres the 28" LCD in a 25" opening (MK4 cab)

Thanks for the pic!  Yep, that's what I was imagining.  Yeah, there are ways I can mask off the ugly, but the thing is that a 28" 16:9 screen is going to be the same image size as a 23" 4:3 screen... four inches smaller than the 27" screen the cabinet was designed for.  It just burns my biscuit to throw up such a small display, especially when I hope to have four kids crowded around it at once.

I know, I know, I have to choose... but I just want to make sure this is a complete list of options to choose from:

• 16:9 monitor, letterboxed to make a 23" display
• 27" CRT, adding 100 lbs and 140 Watts to the cabinet
• homebrew rear-projection screen, with probable low contrast in a normally-lit room

I'm currently leaning towards option 3 (if I remove the bezel, I could make that a 31" display!).  But I'd love to learn that there's an option 4 (that doesn't suck).

Option 3 is a non-option, you'd wreck your convergence every time something bumped your cab. Option four is a 16:10 monitor masked off like the one one I linked to, you'll get a lot more inches out of it.

I'm with yotsuya though, go for option 2.

[Malenko]

Tri-Sync CRT displays standard res, medium res, and VGA , basically every arcade resolution.  It is a CRT and its heavy as ---fudgesicle---.

sorry to thread jack with pictures, but here is the 28" LCD with the CRT's bezel removed and the glass painted black to fake the bezel:


and here is after I pulled the 28" LCD and put in a 27" Tri-Sync:


I personally like the tri-sync a ton more, but I dont play modern games on it. If I had steam or PC games installed on my MAME cab I would have probably kept the LCD.  The vertical loss sucks, but in my day arcade cabs had 19" monitors

[JoeStrout]

I think if you decased a 30" 16:10 monitor like this:

http://www.amazon.com/First-F301GD-2560x1600-S-IPS-Monitor/dp/B00HCWVUXK

you could probably just squeeze it in there. That would give you a 17" height.

Not quite... At a 16:10 aspect ratio, a 30" display is 25.4" by 15.9".

But yeah, that is a lot closer to the height I need, if I can cram it in.  I don't know if I'm comfortable decasing a $400 screen, but maybe.  Thanks for pointing it out.

[JoeStrout]

sorry to thread jack with pictures, but here is the 28" LCD with the CRT's bezel removed and the glass painted black to fake the bezel

No need for sorry, the pictures really help.  But I think you cheated on that one somehow.    You're not showing a 4:3 image on that screen.  Is that a newer game that was made for widescreen?  Or have you somehow stretched/scrunched the image to fit the display?

If I were going to be playing any newer games, yeah, I'd settle for the widescreen display with no (OK, slightly less) grumbling.  But I'm not; this machine has a very well-defined purpose, and everything it's going to play is 4:3.

[Malenko]

Nope not cheating,I just wanted to show you how much real estate you had vertically with that monitor. You can imagine black bars for a 4:3 image.   Also, I couldn't find any 4:3 pictures being displayed on the monitor

here is some TMNT TiT stretched to 16:9

Not Terrible, but not as good as 4:3.


Strictly speaking in opinion here  but your best options in order are

4:3 CRT (TV, VGA, arcade, or Trisync)
28" LCD
then de-cased 30" 16:10 with the possibility of some wood work lol.

I don't think the "home made rear projector" is going to have the results you want without added problems.

[pixelObsession]

Is there room to mount the TV vertically?  Then your screen height will become your width and fill up the bezel completely.


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[JDFan]

Is there room to mount the TV vertically?  Then your screen height will become your width and fill up the bezel completely.


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^This -- figure a 32" - 42" LCD +/- should be able to fit vertically mounted inside the 25" width and the extra horizontal space can be hidden behind the Marquee or CP if there is room inside the cabinet.

FIgure my 42" Vizio is 25 1/4" x 39 3/4" outer dimensions with the case and 20.5" x 36.5" viewable surface -- so if decased should be able to fit in the 25 inch width of your cab if there is room to hide the extra length !

[Malenko]

I mounted a 36" 4:3 CRT in a KI2  too :p

[JoeStrout]

Is there room to mount the TV vertically?  Then your screen height will become your width and fill up the bezel completely.

Hey now, that's an out-of-the-box idea!  Let's see, math sez that with the 16:9 aspect ratio that is nearly universal now, and wanting to fill 31" of space, I'd need a 43" (diagonal) screen, which would be 37.5" high (plus bezel/frame).  If I found it 16:10, it'd need to be a 40" diagonal, which works out to 34" high.  Lemme run out to the garage with a measuring tape...

Huh.  There are things in the way, but I don't think they're mission-critical; with some creative hackingengineering, I might be able to fit something about 36" vertical in there.

Of course I'd have to be very careful about viewing angles.  I have a big-ish monitor that was mounted vertically on the wall for a while, but it looked great from one side (what would have been "above" in its normal orientation), and was utter crap from the other side ("below").  But if I'm buying 16:9, at least, I can actually go into the store, get the sales guy to stand it on its side, and see if it works.  So this may be doable.

Thanks for the idea!

[pixelObsession]

No problem!  I'm not claiming the conception of the idea but I've hovered around here long enough to absorb all kinds of clever ideas.


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[dmckean]

Of course I'd have to be very careful about viewing angles.  I have a big-ish monitor that was mounted vertically on the wall for a while, but it looked great from one side (what would have been "above" in its normal orientation), and was utter crap from the other side ("below").  But if I'm buying 16:9, at least, I can actually go into the store, get the sales guy to stand it on its side, and see if it works.  So this may be doable.

You definitely need to be careful about viewing angles when mounting any LCD vertically. I didn't suggest this yesterday because I didn't think this would be possible with the Gauntlet Legends cab because of the angle the monitor is mounted. If you've measured and know that it will work though, go for it.

[JoeStrout]

You definitely need to be careful about viewing angles when mounting any LCD vertically. I didn't suggest this yesterday because I didn't think this would be possible with the Gauntlet Legends cab because of the angle the monitor is mounted. If you've measured and know that it will work though, go for it.

Yep, fit is definitely a concern.  What we're going to do is make do with the 20" 4:3 LCD that I have for now, until everything else is ironed out and working; then we'll go to Target etc., pick a TV that looks good at the appropriate angles and is the right size, and measure it very carefully; then come home and cut a piece of MDF to that size, to act as a stand-in.

Then we'll hack the cabinet innards as needed to get that stand-in mounted flush with the bezel, proving that it's going to work... And only then do we go back and plop down $300 for the TV.

Of course, this TV will be substantially larger than what's in our living room now... so I guess we could also skip the MDF stand-in, and if we're unable to fit it into the cab, declare it the new family TV. 

[nitrogen_widget]

Check out the Salvation Army store or good will.
I picked up a 20" CRT TV with component in for $20 I think.

They have bigger with component in usually that people donated when they bought flat screens.
those cost $30-$35.
I find HD CRT's for $50 occasionally also. Those I leave alone.
Weigh A LOT!

Older Nvidia cards with component out are fairly cheap also.

It looks good. Not arcade good but i'd say better than an LCD with GLSL.

just my opinion.

[JoeStrout]

More brainstorming... firmly into the "idle speculation" category now...

I wonder if it would be possible to combine two monitors oriented sideways, to make one properly-shaped display?

Let's see, we want 22 inches of width, or 11 inches out of each half, so that'd be 23" monitors in the 16:9 aspect ratio.  Those are cheap.  They'd be 20 inches high when arranged this way, which is more than we need (the bezel is only 16 inches high), but that's OK.

The trick is, how to you combine them seamlessly?  They managed to do this in the X-Men 6-player cab, but I confess I don't fully understand how... I don't have one around anywhere to inspect, and I haven't been able to find a diagram online.  I know you're actually looking at one of them in a mirror.  Anyway, I wonder if you could pull a similar trick inside an ordinary cabinet?

[nitrogen_widget]

Xmen used a Mirror box for one of the monitors.

[pixelObsession]

This is a pretty good ref for the mirror box setup:

http://www.wsgf.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25230


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[DeLuSioNal29]

A guy here shoehorned a 50" plasma into his and physically masked off the edges to form a 4:3 image.  You could do something similar as people here already suggested (with a smaller monitor).



D

[JoeStrout]

This is a pretty good ref for the mirror box setup:

http://www.wsgf.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25230

Thanks, that's a neat one!  I didn't realize the X-Men had a half-silvered glass all the way across; other references I've seen seemed to say that there was a (full) mirror across just one half, which didn't make any sense to me.  This makes a lot more sense.

Hmm... for this build I'm going to go with the vertical 40" screen masked off to 4:3, but I'm going to have to think about that dual-monitor trick more for the future!

[pixelObsession]

To be totally honest I still don't get it... haha

In theory... could a person reflect the top portion of a vertically mounted TV (the bit hidden above the speaker panel) to to be the marquee?  Then you could use software like these:

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000894.htm

To display your marquee on the hidden portion inside your cab.

If this is in any way viable say goodbye to overpriced stretched monitors for dynamic marquees!


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[pixelObsession]

Crude drawing of crazy idea...


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[cjberg]

Happ sells a 26" monitor and bezel for the cabinet... it's expensive, but somewhere to start looking.
LCD Monitor
http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement_products/monitors/49-2958-00
Bezel:
http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement_products/monitors/49-7627-D

iirc, you can set the width & height of the image, so you can scale it to fit the bezel, or different size screens.

Cj