Roms run fine in MAME, but lagging in Hyperspin. Vsync related.

[magus90]

Hello

I am having a weird issue with hyperspin.

I had bad screen tearing, so i turned Vsync on. Made them just about go away and my games run full speed in MAME and even from HyperlaunchHQ.

Now if i go to load the same game through hyperspin, it lags incredibly bad at 50%. This only happens when i play the rom through hyperspin.

Why could this be happening ? And is there anyway to fix it?

I am using all the newest version of MAME, hyperlaunchHQ and Hyperspin.

Thanks so much for any help, i really appreciate it

Joe

[abispac]

i remember having the same problem, for me it was the sleep optionin mame, so go to the mame.ini and if you  have that on or 1 turnit off or 0 or the other way, im pretty sure that woud fix it

[magus90]

Didn't work

It helped speed up a couple roms, but most are still incredibly laggy and not 100% like they are in MAME.

I don't get it.

Thanks for the advice though

[Yenome]

are you using hyperlaunch to run mame?

[magus90]

are you using hyperlaunch to run mame?

Yes I am

[abispac]

why not try to delete mame.ini and try with hyperspin again

[magus90]

why not try to delete mame.ini and try with hyperspin again

I honesty think it's just my pc not being good enough to handle everything at once. Vsync and HLSL work good together in MAME alone, just about all games run 100% with both on, but even vertical games like pacman and galaga are at 98 and 99% so my PC is definitely struggling even without hyperspin or hyperlaunch running. Not by much, but just enough to lose a percent or two.

I didn't realize Vsync and HLSL running together would totally overwork my I5 like that. I thought my PC would be enough to handle just about anything i could throw at it MAME wise. I knew modern games would be junk but i thought MAME needed WAY less performance even with extras like Vsync and HLSL turned on.

I5-2500 3.4ghz 3.7 turbo
GT 730 Card
4Gb Ram

[magus90]

why not try to delete mame.ini and try with hyperspin again

I did a test and had both on, but tried a game that DOESN'T use HLSL. So only Vsync was running and the game played at 100%. Had a few dips on some transition and loading screens but gameplay was a solid 100%. And the game was NFL blitz gold edition.

So the issue is definitely running both at once. Because one or the other works fine.

The question what do i need to upgrade to make this work....... Ram, CPU, or GPU???

Thanks for the help man, it's appreciated.

[abispac]

to be honest, i run hyperspin and mame on pentium 4 machines without a problem, i know some games wont work but thats ok for me as i dont play them anyway, on dual core computers most games run just fine, i only dream of i5 cpus, but i bet that convined with a decent card can emulate pretty much everything. really dont know what hsls is as i always go with the simple stuff.

[Yenome]

i dont see anything wrong with your i5 setup my mame system is a lonely amd dual core. i would try to add a gfx card just for HLSL.

[Mr_Numbers]

This might be something you would want to ask the Hyperspin forums directly as there are lots of people there that could help.

[magus90]

i dont see anything wrong with your i5 setup my mame system is a lonely amd dual core. i would try to add a gfx card just for HLSL.

I did. It has a gt 730. Might just not be powerful enough. Its a low profile card.

I want the r9 270 which is a great card for under 130 right now. I can build a solid i5 4690k for about 500 right now. Without the os of course.

Just deciding if its worth it. It would be nice to max out anything mame has as well as play some modern PC games like sf4 and mortal kombat.

Just sucks because now I have a small form factor PC that I now have to sell lol should be easy though since it has an i5 2500 which alone sells for 100 bucks still.

This little PC runs mame and hlsl amazing. Even blitz and gauntlet legends All at full speed. Its just v sync that struggles and to be honest I don't get tearing bad enough to even use it. Its only bad in wonderboy and every other game I wouldn't have noticed if I wasnt looking for it

[Yenome]

i run mame with an 8500gt, funny thing is i bought an r9 270 for my gaming rig build this year. i feel your issue is software not hardware. if it was hardware it wouldnt work when mame is running by it self.

[DocHolliday]

why not try to delete mame.ini and try with hyperspin again

I honesty think it's just my pc not being good enough to handle everything at once. Vsync and HLSL work good together in MAME alone, just about all games run 100% with both on, but even vertical games like pacman and galaga are at 98 and 99% so my PC is definitely struggling even without hyperspin or hyperlaunch running. Not by much, but just enough to lose a percent or two.

I didn't realize Vsync and HLSL running together would totally overwork my I5 like that. I thought my PC would be enough to handle just about anything i could throw at it MAME wise. I knew modern games would be junk but i thought MAME needed WAY less performance even with extras like Vsync and HLSL turned on.

I5-2500 3.4ghz 3.7 turbo
GT 730 Card
4Gb Ram

MAME seems to work fine though right?   You said it's only when running MAME through Hyperspin.      What is the CPU usage using MAME alone vs when you're using it with Hyperspin?     If it's much higher usage % with Hyperspin running, then it sounds like it's a software issue with Hyperspin and likely not a hardware issue where you need to upgrade more.

[magus90]

why not try to delete mame.ini and try with hyperspin again

I honesty think it's just my pc not being good enough to handle everything at once. Vsync and HLSL work good together in MAME alone, just about all games run 100% with both on, but even vertical games like pacman and galaga are at 98 and 99% so my PC is definitely struggling even without hyperspin or hyperlaunch running. Not by much, but just enough to lose a percent or two.

I didn't realize Vsync and HLSL running together would totally overwork my I5 like that. I thought my PC would be enough to handle just about anything i could throw at it MAME wise. I knew modern games would be junk but i thought MAME needed WAY less performance even with extras like Vsync and HLSL turned on.

I5-2500 3.4ghz 3.7 turbo
GT 730 Card
4Gb Ram

MAME seems to work fine though right?   You said it's only when running MAME through Hyperspin.      What is the CPU usage using MAME alone vs when you're using it with Hyperspin?     If it's much higher usage % with Hyperspin running, then it sounds like it's a software issue with Hyperspin and likely not a hardware issue where you need to upgrade more.

It's actually doing it in MAME now as well. Same exact issue and the fps is at 55% just like with hyperspin. I had so many hours in front of that pc that i honestly cannot remember now what worked and what didn't originally. But as of now i cannot use HLSL and Vsync together in any of the programs without taking a hit to 50% fps.

I didn't mess with anything so i don't think it's the settings at all. It's either my pc just can't run both vsync and HLSL together, or there is a glitch or bug with my setup. I originally started having problems after i enable bezels. i turned them off and then i had all kinds of issues.

But like i said i had so many hours with this setup that i honestly can't remember when and how exactly i tested everything. Just could be an oversight on my part and i thought vsync and HLSL worked together only to realize i hadn't really tested the two together.

Can you guys run HLSL and vsync together? Would you guys mind checking for me? If you have comparable specs to my PC, and can run both HLSL and VSYNC without any lag than i know it must be a software issue and i would just be wasting my time upgrading.

Vsync can be turned on in the MAME ini by putting a 1 next to waitvsycn

And HLSL can be turned on by putting a 1 next to HLSL in your MAME ini towards the bottom.

Also i am using these settings, so you would have to copy and replace in your ini.

http://www.videogameperfection.com/2014/07/27/hlsl-for-everyone/Thanks to anyone who can help out

joe

[Malenko]

I can test it, but my setup lacks any sort of GPU. Would you want results based on the onboard video?

[magus90]

I can test it, but my setup lacks any sort of GPU. Would you want results based on the onboard video?

Couldn't hurt! I doubt you will be able to run them without a GPU though, HLSL and vsync can be demanding from what i read.

Thanks a lot dude, i appreciate it. If your onboard can run these then i definitely know something is wrong

[magus90]

I can test it, but my setup lacks any sort of GPU. Would you want results based on the onboard video?

Okay i think i am on to something. Just turned on my computer and decided to test Vsync and HLSL in MAME one last time.

Runs all games, except for blitz at 100%. Thats to be expected though and i wouldnt use Vsync with blitz anyway.

Lets use UMK3 as an example. Runs 100% with Vsync and HLSL on.


Boot up hyperspin and the same game lags at 55%.



Now here is where it gets interesting, going back to MAME it lagged at 55%!!! When it was just working a second ago.

I open up my task manager and it says Hyperspin is running as a process still at 120,000 KB!!

I end the task, boot MAME back up and it runs fine.


I opened hyperspin again and same thing lags at 55%. I then try MAME again and now its running totally fine at 100%.

So i Check my task manager again and this time no hyperspin process is running.


So something is causing hyperspin to stay open even after i exit out of it. But not everytime, only sporadicaly which is why i keep getting all different results.



Also i guess it really must just be a hardware issue then since MAME works, but hyperspin does not. I wonder if it's my ram only being 4gb? with nothing open but the desktop i am using about 1MB of RAM.

Could Hyperspin, MAME, and its filters be eating up that other 3GB?


Thanks a bunch guys, i think i am finally getting somewhere.

[Mr_Numbers]

Ok so it sounds like a Hyperspin related issue for sure, do you have any wait/delay when exited a game set?  At this point a paste of your Hyperspin log could probably be helpful to point out any settings there that could be causing this issue.

I can test it, but my setup lacks any sort of GPU. Would you want results based on the onboard video?

Okay i think i am on to something. Just turned on my computer and decided to test Vsync and HLSL in MAME one last time.

Runs all games, except for blitz at 100%. Thats to be expected though and i wouldnt use Vsync with blitz anyway.

Lets use UMK3 as an example. Runs 100% with Vsync and HLSL on.


Boot up hyperspin and the same game lags at 55%.



Now here is where it gets interesting, going back to MAME it lagged at 55%!!! When it was just working a second ago.

I open up my task manager and it says Hyperspin is running as a process still at 120,000 KB!!

I end the task, boot MAME back up and it runs fine.


I opened hyperspin again and same thing lags at 55%. I then try MAME again and now its running totally fine at 100%.

So i Check my task manager again and this time no hyperspin process is running.


So something is causing hyperspin to stay open even after i exit out of it. But not everytime, only sporadicaly which is why i keep getting all different results.



Also i guess it really must just be a hardware issue then since MAME works, but hyperspin does not. I wonder if it's my ram only being 4gb? with nothing open but the desktop i am using about 1MB of RAM.

Could Hyperspin, MAME, and its filters be eating up that other 3GB?


Thanks a bunch guys, i think i am finally getting somewhere.

[DocHolliday]

I can test it, but my setup lacks any sort of GPU. Would you want results based on the onboard video?

Okay i think i am on to something. Just turned on my computer and decided to test Vsync and HLSL in MAME one last time.

Runs all games, except for blitz at 100%. Thats to be expected though and i wouldnt use Vsync with blitz anyway.

Lets use UMK3 as an example. Runs 100% with Vsync and HLSL on.


Boot up hyperspin and the same game lags at 55%.



Now here is where it gets interesting, going back to MAME it lagged at 55%!!! When it was just working a second ago.

I open up my task manager and it says Hyperspin is running as a process still at 120,000 KB!!

I end the task, boot MAME back up and it runs fine.


I opened hyperspin again and same thing lags at 55%. I then try MAME again and now its running totally fine at 100%.

So i Check my task manager again and this time no hyperspin process is running.


So something is causing hyperspin to stay open even after i exit out of it. But not everytime, only sporadicaly which is why i keep getting all different results.



Also i guess it really must just be a hardware issue then since MAME works, but hyperspin does not. I wonder if it's my ram only being 4gb? with nothing open but the desktop i am using about 1MB of RAM.

Could Hyperspin, MAME, and its filters be eating up that other 3GB?


Thanks a bunch guys, i think i am finally getting somewhere.

That sounds like a hyperspin software issue to me

[magus90]

I can test it, but my setup lacks any sort of GPU. Would you want results based on the onboard video?

Okay i think i am on to something. Just turned on my computer and decided to test Vsync and HLSL in MAME one last time.

Runs all games, except for blitz at 100%. Thats to be expected though and i wouldnt use Vsync with blitz anyway.

Lets use UMK3 as an example. Runs 100% with Vsync and HLSL on.


Boot up hyperspin and the same game lags at 55%.



Now here is where it gets interesting, going back to MAME it lagged at 55%!!! When it was just working a second ago.

I open up my task manager and it says Hyperspin is running as a process still at 120,000 KB!!

I end the task, boot MAME back up and it runs fine.


I opened hyperspin again and same thing lags at 55%. I then try MAME again and now its running totally fine at 100%.

So i Check my task manager again and this time no hyperspin process is running.


So something is causing hyperspin to stay open even after i exit out of it. But not everytime, only sporadicaly which is why i keep getting all different results.



Also i guess it really must just be a hardware issue then since MAME works, but hyperspin does not. I wonder if it's my ram only being 4gb? with nothing open but the desktop i am using about 1MB of RAM.

Could Hyperspin, MAME, and its filters be eating up that other 3GB?


Thanks a bunch guys, i think i am finally getting somewhere.

That sounds like a hyperspin software issue to me

Well a software issue would explain the process not ending when its supposed to. But it doesn't explain why it initially runs games with lag when hyper spin is being used.

I am just wondering if its chewing up my resources. It can't be a setting issue because I really haven't touched much.

I'm gonna try adding some ram just to be sure. If that doesn't work then I might just abandon hyper spin and go to another front end that doesn't cause my games to lag.

[abispac]

try using hyperspin at the lowest settings, im pretty sure it has nothing to do with hyperspin...

[kortina]

I had a similar issue.

Win7 x64, was running MAME 137. Decided to upgrade to MAME 160 so that I could use HLSL and started having heaps of issues.

Finally figured it out, it was LEDBlinky!

I had replaced the version of MAME, and did NOT have the correct supporting files in place for LEDBlinky. Hyperspin would launch LEDBlinky and then MAME, however it would get VERY choppy and laggy. Once I fixed LEDBlinky config all of the stalling stopped!

It took me a while to figure out, I finally guessed the answer ones I saw my controls flashing in time with the stalling/lag.

Also take a look at the Hyperspin log.txt file, as it should give you some clues.

[magus90]

try using hyperspin at the lowest settings, im pretty sure it has nothing to do with hyperspin...

So if its not hyper spin what could it be?? Hardware? Because mame works fine and my hardware runs everything fine without hyper spin.  So either my hardware can't run hyper spin and mame with everything turned on for special effects. Or its a software bug in hyper spin.

Just my guesses

[magus90]

I had a similar issue.

Win7 x64, was running MAME 137. Decided to upgrade to MAME 160 so that I could use HLSL and started having heaps of issues.

Finally figured it out, it was LEDBlinky!

I had replaced the version of MAME, and did NOT have the correct supporting files in place for LEDBlinky. Hyperspin would launch LEDBlinky and then MAME, however it would get VERY choppy and laggy. Once I fixed LEDBlinky config all of the stalling stopped!

It took me a while to figure out, I finally guessed the answer ones I saw my controls flashing in time with the stalling/lag.

Also take a look at the Hyperspin log.txt file, as it should give you some clues.

05:07:37 PM |  HyperSpin Started
05:07:37 PM |  Going FullScreen
05:07:37 PM |  Checking for updates
05:07:37 PM |  Update Check Complete
05:07:37 PM |  Startup program unavailable
05:07:37 PM |  Playing intro video
05:07:38 PM |  Error intializing joysticks
05:07:38 PM |  Menu Mode is single
05:07:38 PM |  Loading MAME.xml
05:07:39 PM |  MAME.xml successfully loaded
05:07:39 PM |  MAME wheel loaded successfully
05:07:46 PM |  Launching Game
05:07:46 PM |  Using HyperLaunch
05:07:46 PM |  Getting HyperLaunch path
05:07:46 PM |  HyperLaunch located at C:\Hyperspin\HyperLaunch\HyperLaunch.exe
05:07:46 PM |  Running HyperLaunch.exe
05:07:46 PM |  HyperLaunch Command Line is: C:\Hyperspin\HyperLaunch\HyperLaunch.exe "MAME" "umk3"
05:08:04 PM |  Exit program unavailable
05:08:04 PM |  Quiting Hyperspin
05:08:04 PM |  Bye!


Thats my log for my last run. I have LEDblinky disabled so it can't be that, glad it worked for you though!!

Also just to clarify more, the games also run totally fun when running from the HyperlaunchHQ program. Both with Vsync and HLSL.

It is only hyperspin at this point causing the issue as far i can tell.

EDIT- I setup maximus arcade real quick and that works totally fine. Games run at full speed with vsync and HLSL. So it is definitely something with hyperspin which is super bumming me out because i LOVE the way it looks and i spent forever configuring everything for it and getting all the themes and videos set up.

[abispac]

last guy just told you it could be ledblinky.... 

[kortina]

My guess is that Hyperspin is not going to sleep when you launch MAME, so it is sitting in the background stealing CPU.

The CPU is maxing out, and causing you to have lag.

I have never had much luck with hyperlaunch... Go into HyperHQ and reconfig your MAME wheel to just use the MAME.exe (no hyperlaunch).

I have never really understood why I would need hyperlaunch at all. I just run the MAME wheel, with LEDBlinky and CPWizard and cant see any advantages of Hyperlaunch. Happy to be corrected.

When I did use Hyperlaunch I didn't really like the extra 3-4sec delay in launching games.

[Yenome]

personally i dont use hyperlaunch for mame. i dont even like using it for consoles for that matter if i dont have too. i feel it just adds another gear in the machine that can break.

[magus90]

personally i dont use hyperlaunch for mame. i dont even like using it for consoles for that matter if i dont have too. i feel it just adds another gear in the machine that can break.

Well hyperlaunch seems to play everything fine. I just tested the games in hyperlaunch.

I did run into a strange issue where i had to close chrome because it was lagging with it on. I usually shut chrome off when running anything for emulators.

So maybe it is a memory thing, or CPU.

[kortina]

Go into HyperHQ and reconfig your MAME wheel to just use the MAME.exe (no hyperlaunch)

[magus90]

Go into HyperHQ and reconfig your MAME wheel to just use the MAME.exe (no hyperlaunch)

Tried it already, it changed nothing.

I have no idea whats going on at this point. It's driving me crazy. I am just going to go out and buy some ram tomorrow and see if that fixes things.

I feel like between HLSL and VSYNC and running hyperspin and MAME i am just maxing out the 4gb. I could be totally wrong though.

[bulbousbeard]

Just use Attract Mode or another frontend that isn't a pile of crap.

Hyperspin isn't for people who actually want to play games. You shouldn't be using HLSL anyway, by the way. You should be running OpenGL with the Lottes shader. It looks way better.

[magus90]

Just use Attract Mode or another frontend that isn't a pile of crap.

Hyperspin isn't for people who actually want to play games. You shouldn't be using HLSL anyway, by the way. You should be running OpenGL with the Lottes shader. It looks way better.

thanks, would you mind explaining real quick how to get lottes to work??

[bulbousbeard]

MAME .159 supports CRT simulation via Direct3D and HLSL.

Last year, Timothy Lottes created a great CRT simulation shader, and it was ported to GLSL for SDLMAME by SoltanGris42. The problem is that SDLMAME is a pile of turd, because it has horrible audio latency and doesn't support the Raw Input API in Windows, so it had more input lag than Windows MAME.

Couriersud, one of the brilliant MAME developers, has been aligning the different video APIs that MAME uses as part of a larger effort to eventually GPU accelerate 3D games in MAME crossplatform.

Due to his work, you can now run the Timothy Lottes Shader in Windows MAME and still get the low latency Raw Input API and low audio latency of Windows MAME while getting the superior CRT shader. It really is the best of both worlds.

This is the new de facto setup for high quality MAME builds using LCDs.

WOW Couriersud is awesome.

Here's a build of the latest MAME source with the Timothy Lottes shader included and the ini already configured; all you have to do is change the ROM path to match yours, and you're done.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g75np6v6ad9s5jy/mamesvn.zip

Here's a breakdown of the options you want in MAME's INI and why they're important:

sleep 0 -- If you enable sleep in MAME, you will get microstuttering. It is simply not reliable if you want perfect video.

audio_latency 1 -- This is the lowest latency audio setting in Windows MAME currently. The default, 2, sucks.

video opengl -- You need to use OpenGL to run the GLSL shader; this is a new option made available by Couriersud.

gl_forcepow2texture 1

gl_notexturerect 1

gl_vbo 1

gl_pbo 1

gl_glsl 1

gl_glsl_filter 0 -- If you enable filtering, you get a soft, ---smurfy--- picture.

glsl_shader_mame0 shader\Lottes_CRT -- This is where you tell it which shader to run (this is included in the archive).

I didn't change it in the INI because everyone's monitor is different, the chances are that you'll want to adjust the gamma setting to around 0.75 or so. It'll probably be too bright otherwise.

One more tip: Nvidia's OpenGL driver is buggy and has microstuttering unless you go into the Nvidia 3d settings and disable "Threaded Optimization" for this program (not that anyone other than me probably even notices).

So there you go: this is the best MAME has ever been on an LCD. You're welcome.™

[magus90]

So i checked my performance with MAME running with Vsync and HLSL on using the task manager.

And both CPU and RAM are barely using anything about %30 for each. I minimized the window so i am not sure if that makes a difference on performance. But All games run at 100% like i said except for vertical games that all run at 99% in just MAME itsellf with both vsync and HLSL ON.

I also notice that vertical games run at 99% with Vsync even if HLSL is OFF in just MAME. So it seems HLSL isn't effecting vsync or overall performance.


Hyperspin makes them lag at 55% if i have V sync turned on. It even lags at 55% with HLSL OFF and just Vsync on alone.

So it seems V sync is what the issue is, as HLSL runs flawlessly on all programs on it's own.


A) Why would vertical games be running at 99% when vsync is turned on, is it just my pc specs or is it an emulation software thing with MAME.

B) Why is hyperspin lagging so much with Vsync turned on. Regardless of whether or not HLSL is on it still lags at 55%

C) Would a better graphics card remedy this. Could it be my GPU just can't process everything fast enough and thats why it's lagging? A GT 730 is a pretty weak card.

[bulbousbeard]

Don't use HLSL. Use OpenGL.

Also, it could just be your monitor. Are you sure your monitor even runs at 60hz? If a game in MAME runs at 60hz or greater, and you have an LCD that actually runs at 59.95hz (check--some of them do), you WON'T be able to get 100% speed consistently.

I have a monitor that can only go as high as 59.2hz, so I had to make a custom MAME compile that forced the 60hz games to that refresh rate.

[magus90]

Don't use HLSL. Use OpenGL.

Also, it could just be your monitor. Are you sure your monitor even runs at 60hz? If a game in MAME runs at 60hz or greater, and you have an LCD that actually runs at 59.95hz (check--some of them do), you WON'T be able to get 100% speed consistently.

I have a monitor that can only go as high as 59.2hz, so I had to make a custom MAME compile that forced the 60hz games to that refresh rate.

Well regardless of hlsl or glsl this issue exists with both of them off. Its vsync.

Newegg says my refresh rates are

Horizontal 24-92 hz
Vertical 50-85 hz
http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=N82E16824236103

[magus90]

Well i used triple buffer instead and now i get 100% in all of games pretty much.

Except for the classics like pacman and galaga. I believe this is because those games ran at refresh rates higher than 60HZ i believe like 60.6 or something like that.

So if i get a monitor that's 120Hz that should fix the 99% in the classic games, and as long as it doesnt affect my other games that are running at 100% i think i may finally have a solution.

I get no screen tearing at all with triplebuffer, and am able to use hyperspin.

I wonder if there is way to force those games to a refresh rate of 60hz and what the side effects would be if any.

[bulbousbeard]

Syncrefresh will force the games to run at your monitor's refresh rate, but it's going to make games run too fast or too slow.

You can mostly get away with it, but games such as R-Type (55hz), Mortal Kombat (54hz) are going to run noticeably fast with Alvin and the Chipmunks audio.

[magus90]

Syncrefresh will force the games to run at your monitor's refresh rate, but it's going to make games run too fast or too slow.

You can mostly get away with it, but games such as R-Type (55hz), Mortal Kombat (54hz) are going to run noticeably fast with Alvin and the Chipmunks audio.

Yeah that's definitely a problem. Well at this point everything seems to be running smoothly with triple buffering. There's no added lag either as far as I can tell.

Just need to figure out how to get the vertical games from 99% to 100%. If it wasn't messing up the sound I could just ignore it.

Is there anyway to use triplebufferig for certain games but not for others?