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Author Topic: ICBC (working name)  (Read 7018 times)

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SavannahLion

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ICBC (working name)
« on: March 08, 2015, 12:11:46 am »
I'm past due so....

This project has had a lot of set backs so there isn't much point in really discussing much of anything. However, I did say I would put something up....

Microsoft thought it was a good idea to reorganize my directories in a recent update so it's taken me a while to sort the mess out. Besides, every time I try to write something out, it comes off as sounding... meh....



It's a wall mounted cab. The "painting" Sketchup did looks like crap, but I'm not inclined to make it "nice" since it's a WIP and I don't want to fuss with painting it when I make my changes.

Originally, I wanted the acrylic to be curved on all four sides, but as I was playing around, it proved too difficult without investing in a vacuum table (something I always wanted since I was a kid but never have the room for it).

As a compromise, I added metal bobs at the top and bottom leaving only a curves on the left and right, something I think is far more doable with my current tool set. I came up with this design about a year ago, and now that I look at it again, I think it looks too much like a pill stuck to a wall. I might add a marquee across the top.



The joysticks are gone and replaced with knobs. I tested a design using hall effect sensors and magnets for longevity but I'm not sure if I'll go with it or Plain Jane pots or even a slotted disc. Even from the first revision, I always intended the CP (tube?) to hinge open to allow access to a set bolt that holds the cab in place on the wall. Remove the bolt and the entire cab can come down for maintenance.

Not sure if it's obvious but the knobs are supposed to be clear (acrylic I suppose) to allow LED lighting. A thin band behind the cab acts as a diffuser for a set of LED's as well, kind of like lit T-Molding. Originally, I needed it because I couldn't rely on my calculations for depth to be dead accurate and the band was intended to be adjustable to allow for any miscalculations on my part. Since I redesigned the playfield to be even thinner, it's likely no longer necessary. The unknowns are now the motor mounts and the open frame PSU which I haven't picked out yet. I did have a cardboard template of the playfield but I realized too late that it was destroyed in an accident involving the cat. Needless to say, I like some of the design choices that Space Base did so I'm likely to integrate that in the final cut.

There are no back lights for the score holes. I just can't stand how LED lights look in that set up. Instead, I decided to juggle some of the materials around and use light rings instead. My tests show a shitload of soldering in my future... oh well. Unfortunately, the cardboard mockup didn't survive the cat. I honestly didn't think the cat would play with the magnet wire. Can cats get lead poisoning? :-\

Long ago, I had originally intended for the entire thing to be comprised entirely of AVR's, but since the project was in cycle for so damn long, that has changed as well. The sensor array is comprised of AVR ATiny828's (a project I called Starfish though I'm not using five AVR's anymore). There isn't much to show since my old post except for a ton of updated Assembly. Doubt if any one cares about that. I misplaced my test rig for the t828 and the t828 itself so when that bubbles up, I'll take a photo of it. Oh crap.... I think it's in the cat.  :banghead:

I still have not selected a "master" controller for the game logic yet. I've been doing all my testing using the Atmega32U4 MT-DB-U4 from MattairTech



The display went through all sorts of crazy designs including 8-segment LED display run by an Atmega328 until I finally realized using an Android would net me some awesome benefits. Below is a screen shot inside the developer environment. Yeah, sorry, I didn't realize the red on red was going to be a problem. I didn't think it was a good idea to yank Space Base's art for testing. The resolution of the original image is a bit off so it's stretched but that's OK, it was a crazy bug that took a while to get working right. The "engine" I developed uses a static back image, a "player" field that can be controlled and a front-field that may or may not be animated as desired. Right now, this iteration only accepts hard-keyboard input, but the next version will expand to serial support (once  :censored: Windows 8.1 lets me install my drivers :soapbox: thanks for being retarded MS). Eventually, full sound will be implemented as well as full updates via network. The Android gives me the access I need to the SD card so the game can actually receive updates simply by copying the appropriate files then selected in the "Service mode" menu. The cool thing is the game logic need never be updated to support any new sound or graphics. But just in case, I can hypothetically, I can package the microcontroller binary inside the APK and post it up at the Android Play store and push my updates out. A customer of 1 is more than none... right?  :cheers:

The "LED" display is actually nothing more than an Android tablet displaying a simple PNG file and has slots (essentially sprites) for 128 (equal to a 7 segment display) defined by an XML file. There is a second XML which has some limited behavior definitions. For example, a single key on the keyboard properly increments the lower four digits (Once I figure out how to extract a video from the emulator, I'll post that). Or the digits can be directly accessed in an address-like fashion. Either directly, or indirectly. The slots addresses can also be redefined in the second XML file allowing for smaller image files that don't have all 128 permutations.

edit: fixed typos
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 05:41:15 pm by SavannahLion »

SavannahLion

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2015, 12:12:36 am »
Wow... that post came out a lot longer than I wanted.  :dunno

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2015, 06:28:45 am »
Interesting project. Look forward to watching your progress. :cheers:

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2015, 09:09:32 am »
That's a really fun cabinet design. I have a walmount version of my project but that one beats it for sure. Cool cab.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 09:51:56 am »
What a cool idea! I'm gonna follow this thread with great interest!  :cheers:

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 05:23:19 pm »
The emulator I'm using sqwonks the resolution unless I shell out $50 bucks for a month. Oh well, it's one of the fastest around, so I can't complain too much. Did find a way around the recording restriction though.

In any case I put this short clip together.

A couple of "features" present themselves in this video, I'll get around to fixing if I remember. I assigned keyboard keys 1-9 to each digit, pressing each key increments that digit (with carry over) and holding shift decrements the digits (again with roll over or would that be take away? Whatever.).

I borrowed a sample of the Space Base art to show how the program can be reconfigured with custom art and a new XML file (input definitions are still partially hard coded in this verison). I didn't bother tweaking the LED art file to better fit the SB art. Creating the sprite file is a PITA which involves creating a core SVG file with 14 objects. Using a Perl script to generate the 128 permutations as separate numbered SVG files. Then another Perl file with ImageMagick to convert the SVG files to PNG, then merges all the PNG files in the correct order. All because it's near impossible to convert SVG to PNG with pixel perfect precision. :banghead:

Sorry about the .zip file. It's an MP4 file inside created with VLC and Avidemux. It's pretty damn crappy so it's not worth posting on YouTube... Space Base isn't mine anyways so I'm not sure how anyone would feel if I used their art on YouTube.

For those who don't want to download the .zip, there's a still shot.

Note: If any of the SB guys want me to purge this art, just ask. I just want to show what my ICBC can do. :cheers:
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 05:42:39 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2015, 06:53:38 pm »
just being honest, my first thought for the cab name was "I see Birth Control"
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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2015, 07:36:44 pm »
just being honest, my first thought for the cab name was "I see Birth Control"

Wheeew, ok I wasn't the only one then.

Maybe it's the purple? ;)

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2015, 08:19:22 pm »
My day is kind of ass today. Spent last night in the hospital and some dipshit wrecked our van two hours ago.    :bat
So I'm sitting across from my wife and helping her fill out a damn report.  :banghead:
So...  :whap

With that off my chest.

just being honest, my first thought for the cab name was "I see Birth Control"

Well... I have to wonder how you know what a birth control pill looks like.  :laugh2:

I'm not sure why the purple areas appear that way, they're supposed to be blue... Or maybe I was using colors from another, older project. I dunno. I had an idea that every single LED in the cab would be blue. That might stay that way, I haven't decided if I should stay with blue or move up to RGB. It'll bump my overall costs up though.

edit: I remember now why I put the bands there. It was a sort of T-Molding to hold the acrylic in place to the end pieces. It was supposed to be blue anodized aluminum with carved wood ends. But I truly prefer having all metal pieces so both pieces eventually merged into one but I never changed the colors. It was a feature that appeared and I never really thought about it since I'm still open on colors.

I agree the pill appearance is a bit bothersome. After leaving the SketchUp files alone for a year then looking at it with fresh eyes, I don't particularly like the pill-like appearance. I was looking at one of my mystery marquees not too long ago and I imagine I can work a marque into the design. I threw out alot of ideas to avoid having a marquee in the first place. Now... I'm not so sure.

The entire cab is being constructed inside out so I have plenty of time to make changes as I see fit.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 08:37:20 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 09:41:19 pm »
Well... I have to wonder how you know what a birth control pill looks like.  :laugh2:

Well , I'm 36 and married....without any kids.   I wasnt commenting on the look of the project, but the name  :cheers:

Hope all is well after the accident bro.
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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015, 10:09:34 pm »
I See British Columbia
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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2015, 10:29:05 pm »
Well... I have to wonder how you know what a birth control pill looks like.  :laugh2:

Well , I'm 36 and married....without any kids.   I wasnt commenting on the look of the project, but the name  :cheers:

Oooohh.... IC.... It was originally intended to be a clone so.... You can add it up..... :cheers:

Quote
Hope all is well after the accident bro.

It was my wife, my oldest and my youngest. They're all physically OK. My youngest, in all of her infinite wisdom told everyone, "the car is hurt real bad!"  :laugh2:

The van... well... not in good shape.

SavannahLion

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2015, 07:57:30 pm »
Improved the xml config files, one for the "game" display and audio and the other that creates an interface to the controller. The idea is to allow me a bit of flexibility when choosing the interface. The Keyboard interface works great. The Serial.... not so much. Windows 8 is ass when it comes to emulating hardware. I decided to use my Atmega32U4 to emulate the serial I/O and FTDI has docs to integrate their hardware into the Android so there's that.

I quite honestly don't know what I want the cab to sound like... so there's that puzzle.....

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2015, 08:13:09 pm »
This is interesting.  Can I play with your design and provide back to you some renders you can work with?  I promise not to build it myself  ;D  Maybe some artwork when you think of a solid theme eh?  I'm hungry for arcade but can do nothing for the time being except draw.   

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2015, 10:25:27 pm »
This is interesting.  Can I play with your design and provide back to you some renders you can work with?  I promise not to build it myself  ;D  Maybe some artwork when you think of a solid theme eh?  I'm hungry for arcade but can do nothing for the time being except draw.

If you give me the plans to your cloning machine I know you have stashed away somewhere.   >:D

Spent hours on the satellite at work looking at your town and I know you've got one! I see all!*   :burgerking:

In any case, knock yourself out. :dunno  :cheers:

* Well no... I can't see all. I really do look at maps all day though... really! Honest! Yeah... I have a boring job. :-\


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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2015, 08:29:36 am »
Here's what I came up with,  I left off the score/player display but can add that later.  A marquee could be added but I don't think it needs it, clean lines!   :)  The back plate has a diffused glow as well as the controls.  I had to download the manual for the original ICB to see how these things work.
The finish includes matt white top and bottom, metallic blue 'bands', matt black curved edges and of course the curved plastic cover.


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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 10:02:10 am »
Thats neat. 

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2015, 10:53:31 am »
No that's OND...... :applaud:

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2015, 08:23:43 pm »
 ;D OND is my alter-ego, Savannahlion's awful quiet, I'm gonna assume ........he love's it.  That play-field art is just some royalty free sample from Google images.  Some thought's / Concerns /Suggestions.

I can add the segmented display and an art work sub-panel in front of the play-field at the top for the game name.  What about "ElecTron"? The artwork suggests it.
 
There's a lot of hardware that goes into running these cabs i.e. motors, pullies etc etc, it's all going to have to be fairly minature to fit comparative to the cab size.  Thoughts?

 :cheers:

Ond

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2015, 10:06:47 pm »
I'm here... today is a particularly long day for me and my respite so far is a break at McDumps with my kids and my Android.


"Going Postal," is a fairly accurate description.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2015, 03:46:18 am »
Sorry to hear about your trying day.  I've added some detail I ran out of time on yesterday.  Feel free to use or reject the concept theme as you please.  Regardless, I think your cab design is very cool and futuristic.   :cheers:

« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 03:49:47 am by Ond »

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2015, 06:52:06 am »
Latest updated design hit the money.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2015, 08:03:57 am »
Where's the ball return?

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2015, 11:44:38 am »
This just reaffirms my belief you have clones. It took me months to come up with my design in Sketchup, you banged it out in, what, a night? My next project is a holding cell in my basement for one of your clones. :angry:

It's awesome. :banghead:

A couple of notes...

The score display is running on an Android tablet thingie. Rectangular black shape, but it lets me dynamically change the display. I don't need the touch UI so I intend to mount it behind the acrylic. There's still a controller running the game code so I don't have to deal with OS annoyances when trying to manage things like the scoring and motor control.

I created another "helper" project titled Starfish. It essentially allows me a theoretically unlimited serialized (or whatever else I choose) input interface using cheap LEDs. Unlike Space Base or the original ICB/ZP, I can, if I choose, make the hardware aware of the state of each hole in the playfield. To put it another way, I'm not limited to just ten scoring holes.

I've been looking at NEMA  motors to make it easier to mount under (rather than  behind) the playfield but I have a tough time figuring out how the power ratings apply in my context. The pullies don't need to line up exactly, the track does the work of keeping things lined up.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 02:26:25 pm by SavannahLion »

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2015, 07:42:33 pm »
Let it be known that I truly detest Windows 64bit draconian handling of device drivers. Namely the installation of virtual hardware and their interfaces.

Developing an Android app is a headache under Windows 8 or later if you want to talk to a legacy external device. Com2com REQUIRES me to run in unsigned mode. So I thought I'd outsmart  the OS and use an AVR to act as a dual serial port device then use Python or Perl to emulate the hardware on one port and attach the Android app to the other side. After fiddling with the unsigned driver ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- (it's a ---smurfing--- SERIAL port using Windows stock drivers!! ) and spending an hour fiddling with the AVR before remembering about ECHO (oops).

So I got it working and now needed the Android emulator to attach to one of the available ports. Nope, not no way, no how. The damn emulator attaches on a per device basis, not port. Fiddling with filters for nearly two days and nothing. It's done by device, period.

No choice but to shift focus to the hardware side and develop it in parallel.

Digging through my parts bin, I found a LM4F120 dev board but I believe it operates at 3.3v instead of the 5v I would like to use.

It's a nice ARM4 but I have the early version with bad EEPROM. Not too big of a deal since I can leverage the Android for long term storage anyways.

Not a direction I wanted to take for development but it's either that or figure out how to connect two AVR boards (I only have one USB capable one) together to get two distinct hardware devices to avoid the Android emulator from latching onto both.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2015, 11:43:30 pm »
Sorry to hear about the misfortune.

 I have to say... Im also not a fan of this Japanese Generic style of cabinet.

 If you are going to go for curves... they should be sexy curves... like a sportscar shape.

 Otherwise, it very much look like a Pill, with a control panel that does not match the shape of the machine .. so looks even more out of place.

 You might want to consider an In-Wall design... with a simple or deco frame.

 Another thing to think of... is how the theme ties into the machine.    If the theme was Race inspired.. you might make the shape of the cab like a car,  with similar artwork to match.    Is it Retro-Furture  like Jetsons?   Star Trek Next Gen Console?  Arcade Machine feel?

 Or you could go Steam Punk, with actual hand cranks, brass, pipes, finished wood, pressure gauges...etc.


edit : Actually,  the control panel looks like a toilet paper roll / dispenser   >.<
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 11:55:06 pm by Xiaou2 »

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2015, 07:16:32 pm »
I really detest the whole Steam Punk movement. You get about 10% of the fans who actually understand what it's about and get their retro Steam Punk ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- right. Then you get the other 90% who are nothing more than a bunch of clueless posers who try to SP everything.

But I digress.

I successfully created a version of a dual serial port device using the ARM board. The emulator happily latches onto only one port leaving the other free for the hardware emulator. So now I an continue developing the Android app and concurrently develop the hardware protocol without having to update the firmware with every single revision.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2015, 07:55:52 pm »
Could you provide a general breakdown of what it cost?
Something like ten categories - cost in actual cost of product then time involved.
 :applaud:

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2015, 08:42:20 pm »
Could you provide a general breakdown of what it cost?
Something like ten categories - cost in actual cost of product then time involved.
 :applaud:

Component cost is possible but not a break down on time. The bulk of the software work is done during my lunches at work. The Sketchup work took many months that way. Then there's the lost time such as the misguided attempt to write an 6809 emulator using the AVR. I got more than half of it done before I realized the largest AVR8 was available with half the addressable RAM available to the 6809 without extra hardware and playing with paging.

Might try again with the ARM....

I can come back later with what I spent on parts so far.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2015, 01:08:39 pm »
That's... a lot to digest. Give me a little time to read and comprehend. I see a few snippets that are easily integrated, others require a little more thought.

I just came back from my mother's with sore muscles (Sweetie? Can you chop some firewood for me before you go home?) and I'm researching a Mutoscope that belongs to a local museum and scheduling time for busting that nut and a repair attempt.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2015, 03:34:05 am »
8/4/15   Steve Lundquist  -  Not to be used for Commercial purposes without written and signed permission.

Please build the software and hardware controller solution, and send me a copy, so I can develop the art and mechanics... =)

I'm not entirely sure how I should respond to that. ???

I suppose that I would have to respectively decline both requests? :dunno

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2015, 10:37:37 am »
Your call.

 I put a lot of time, energy, and effort... into the designs I make.   I do not feel I should give my work to others for free... and them make profits off of my hard work

 Fyi.. my design ability comes of the back end of countless years of me racking my brains for hours on end.... my entire life.   I often fell asleep, waking up with pencil still in hand.  Ive sacrificed not only time, but also, enjoyment of daily life activities.

 Anyone can copy what already exists.  But to make something completely original... something that both looks and plays good.. is a rarity.

 Realistically. .. if I wanted to make this myself, I could find many whom are capable of creating the hardware and software.  But few are capable of a great design to match that hardware.   Its not a jab at you or anyone. Its a talent and skillset that is worthy of vast compensation.  One great design, can generare millions of dollars in revenue.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 03:05:03 pm by Xiaou2 »

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2015, 03:14:33 am »
Your call.

 I put a lot of time, energy, and effort... into the designs I make.   I do not feel I should give my work to others for free... and them make profits off of my hard work

You mean like how I put in a lot of time, energy, and effort into the software I write and the hardware I build only to have you ask for them... for free... then for you to potentially make profits off of my hard work?


Quote
Fyi.. my design ability comes of the back end of countless years of me racking my brains for hours on end.... my entire life.   I often fell asleep, waking up with pencil still in hand.  Ive sacrificed not only time, but also, enjoyment of daily life activities.

FYI... my coding ability comes off the back end of 29 years of me hacking away for hours on end.... essentially my entire life. I often fell asleep, waking up to the beep of the keyboard buffer. I've sacrificed not only time, but also enjoyment of daily life activities, relationships and even jobs.

Quote
Anyone can copy what already exists.  But to make something completely original... something that both looks and plays good.. is a rarity.

Anyone can copy existing source code. But to craft original code and make it work correctly... to truly bend the hardware to my will so that it both looks and runs well... that is a rarity.

Quote
Realistically. .. if I wanted to make this myself, I could find many whom are capable of creating the hardware and software.  But few are capable of a great design to match that hardware.   Its not a jab at you or anyone. Its a talent and skillset that is worthy of vast compensation.  One great design, can generare millions of dollars in revenue.

Realistically... if you wanted to make this yourself, go ahead and find the feeb willing to fab the knock off hardware and copy and paste the software. Few people are capable of solid system design that can support that art. This isn't a jab at art or game design. Programming is a blending of skill, science, and black magic, and while it is now considered a commodity, it is unlike idea-men who are ---uvulas--- (everyone as one, no one needs two) and flood my mailbox with millions of "greatest-game-idea-ever" messages.

Opt2Nots post may be about art, but it applies equally to programming and engineering.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 03:41:54 am by SavannahLion »

Xiaou2

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2015, 01:58:30 am »
Quote
You mean like how I put in a lot of time, energy, and effort into the software I write and the hardware I build only to have you ask for them... for free... then for you to potentially make profits off of my hard work?

 UHH.. What?!   Did I say I was building something to make money?!   Nope.   I said, that I dont think others should profit off of my hard work.  I put it up to inspire individual creators personal gameroom efforts.   I didnt say I was intending to profit off of your work.   In fact, If I were you... I too would have added the same exact "Not to be used for Commercial Purposes, without my permission"...  because it wouldnt be fair to take the work you did.. and not give you any compensation.

 Or... is this a One way street.. where its Ok to take from others... but not from you?
I clearly dont understand your logic and reasoning.

Quote
FYI... my coding ability comes off the back end of 29 years of me hacking away for hours on end.... essentially my entire life. I often fell asleep, waking up to the beep of the keyboard buffer. I've sacrificed not only time, but also enjoyment of daily life activities, relationships and even jobs.

Quote
Realistically... if you wanted to make this yourself, go ahead and find the feeb willing to fab the knock off hardware and copy and paste the software. Few people are capable of solid system design that can support that art. This isn't a jab at art or game design. Programming is a blending of skill, science, and black magic, and while it is now considered a commodity, it is unlike idea-men who are ---uvulas--- (everyone as one, no one needs two) and flood my mailbox with millions of "greatest-game-idea-ever" messages.

 Realistically... If I wanted to build this all on my own... I can do it without ANY programming whatsoever.   Much like an EM machine.  And mostly pure mechanics.   Which I shall add..  you really should make a simple mechanical mockup.. to see if you ever care for the way the game plays.  You dont need motors.  You can have simple pullys with strings to move the bar.

 I dont know what your level of electronic skills are.  I just know there are a lot of people able to do hardware and software... and few people whom have designs worth building and playing.   ICB isnt even that great of a game.  But with some tweaks... it may have much better potential.

 I think you completely misunderstand my intentions.
And pretty much backhanded my for trying to inspire...
Thanks.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2015, 08:31:47 am »
I still love this concept, when you get to the part where you need art done, I'd love to be a part of this project or at least help in any way that I can.  No monies needed, bragging rights is enough for me  :cheers:
If you're replying to a troll you are part of the problem.
I also need to follow this advice. Ignore or report, don't reply.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2015, 02:01:48 pm »
I love the concept of this. I've never played one but watched the johns arcade video and it looks a really neat idea. Especially in such a compact form.

And holy shoot. I now want ond to do all my artwork from now on.  :notworthy:


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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2015, 07:26:02 pm »
....And holy shoot. I now want ond to do all my artwork from now on.  :notworthy:

I Know!? Right! ;D

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2015, 06:09:47 am »
I love the concept of this. I've never played one but watched the johns arcade video and it looks a really neat idea. Especially in such a compact form.

And holy shoot. I now want ond to do all my artwork from now on.  :notworthy:

 I used to own one.   Takes a little bit of play before you master the control to the needed level... (otherwise you cant get past the 3rd or4th hole without extreme luck).   After that... its not that difficult.   Then it boils down to patience and speed.  You will try to press your luck by using faster speeds.. because you are partially board,  and you are not really that challenged.   

 Id got something like three consecutive victories in a row once.   When you win the top-most hole... you are set back to try again from the bottom up.  The only real change is that there is less time before the riser bar automatically moves lurches upwards (if you pause too long).  Maybe score changes too, but Id never paid attention to that.

 The real problem was that it was never worth the  $400 ish price range.   Thats nearly half of a Pinball machine... and a Pinball machine is far more fun to play.   So... as many collectors do..  it was sold off to get the money to buy a Pinball.


 Ohh, and one more thing about ICB...  Mechanically, its got issues.   Besides the old worn belts that slip and need replacement...  the Riser bar assembly gets worn, and breaks down.   Its due to using thin tubing and no inner-bracing on the mounting edges.   The tube ends up flexing and causes the mounting holes get worn into larger diameter shapes.   This makes the edge parts lose stability and their proper mounted position.

 I had to re-build mine.  I got new metal tubes, drilled all the holes in them, and re-mounted the edge-stops.   This time though... I injected something like hot glue into the tubes edges.  This gave it improved strength, so that it would not fail under stress, in the future.

 The artwork was not very good..  (Zekes Peak looked much nicer)  but the sound quality was actually the worst thing about the game.   At audible levels... it was very low-fi with a lot of distortion.

 For a while,  before I decided to sell it... Id considered making it similar in artwork to Zeke...  but with a Simpsons theme instead.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2015, 06:54:34 pm »
Quote
You mean like how I put in a lot of time, energy, and effort into the software I write and the hardware I build only to have you ask for them... for free... then for you to potentially make profits off of my hard work?

 UHH.. What?!   Did I say I was building something to make money?!   Nope.   I said, that I dont think others should profit off of my hard work.  I put it up to inspire individual creators personal gameroom efforts.   I didnt say I was intending to profit off of your work.   In fact, If I were you... I too would have added the same exact "Not to be used for Commercial Purposes, without my permission"...  because it wouldnt be fair to take the work you did.. and not give you any compensation.

 Or... is this a One way street.. where its Ok to take from others... but not from you?
I clearly dont understand your logic and reasoning.


You pushed too far X. Let's go back to the post you deleted, thankfully, I quoted the relevant part.

8/4/15   Steve Lundquist  -  Not to be used for Commercial purposes without written and signed permission.

Please build the software and hardware controller solution, and send me a copy, so I can develop the art and mechanics... =)

This is the problem. If you had simply made one statement OR the other, then I would not have given it a second thought. Neither statement by itself would prompt any sort of comment out of me because where you're coming from is patently clear on either front. However, when you attach conditions to the... let's call them suggestions because there was probably quite a bit more than that and I frankly didn't read most of it... [t]then[/i] ask for what still belongs to me (that's not the reason for lack of source code) without suggesting anything even remotely sounding like equal conditions, then we have a problem. You even could have dampened the statements by including the additional suggestion you posted below,
Quote
I too would have added the same exact "Not to be used for Commercial Purposes, without my permission"...  because it wouldnt be fair to take the work you did.. and not give you any compensation.

You absolutely do have a valid point, you seriously gotta work on that execution though.

If there's enough Juwainism here I'll agree to move on from this. What do you think?

Moving along, there is a very real, relevant, idea. You can take part in the discussion if you wish. See the next post.

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Re: ICBC (working name)
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2015, 07:13:46 pm »
I still love this concept, when you get to the part where you need art done, I'd love to be a part of this project or at least help in any way that I can.  No monies needed, bragging rights is enough for me  :cheers:

One aspect I'm really trying hard to implement is open ended art, at a minimum, in the Android component. That's why I forgot to include default art. :|

In a nutshell, let's say you download the App through the play store for your own cabinet, even though it's not ICBC. The default art display used red 7-segment style characters. But you have... I dunno, a dart board game that you want to use Klingon or Yautja. Upload a new font/art package with a small XML file that describes positions, sizes and possibly default behavior. Attach a keyboard encoder with an OTG power splice and away you go.

Actual cabinet art would be outside of my ability to pack into a apk though. :)