Free play on MAME?

[DaOld Man]

I couldn't find the answer to this, if it has been answered I apologize, and would appreciate a link to the original topic (PL1?).

Is it possible to set all the games in Mame to be free play, so coin or credit buttons are not needed?

[DeLuSioNal29]

CFG Magician?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,88948.0.html
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,88948.40.html
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,128831.0.html

DeLuSioNaL29

[DaOld Man]

Thanks Delusional. CFG Magician looks promising, I will check it out, however it looks a  little complicated to do just the free play thing, unless Im missing something?

[DeLuSioNal29]

Seems you can simple enable the free play dipswitch for cfg magician:

Dipswitch Options:
CFG Magician can set the following dipswitch options:
Language (English,Japanese,German,French,Italian,Spanish)
FreePlay (On)
CockTail (On)
Difficulty (Min,Max)
Lives (Min,Max)
Bonus Lives (Min,Max)

Give it a shot!   

D

[Malenko]

I just set the ones I play the most to freeplay. Not the solution you are looking for but its a solution. 

[IAmDotorg]

Thanks Delusional. CFG Magician looks promising, I will check it out, however it looks a  little complicated to do just the free play thing, unless Im missing something?

Its actually pretty simple to use -- but it hasn't been updated in quite a while and got about 1/3 to 1/2 of the games I've got wrong.

Make sure you use data files for it that exactly match the version of MAME you have, or you will not even have that much luck.

I ended up using it as a starter for the configuration of my cab, with a script I wrote that adds video, start and coin mapping settings. I also had to modify a bit the scanner script that sets up the config files because it was missing some stuff.  I never did figure out why, but almost none of the games that I was setting DIP settings (cabinet mode, freeplay, etc) worked. I wish the author would open-source it -- most of the issues are probably just because its a few years old and needs updating.

[keilmillerjr]

Could make a script so when you press player start it sends a coin drop key before. Not a perfect solution, but it works for every game and limits the process to only hitting one button to continue.

[PL1]

Could make a script so when you press player start it sends a coin drop key before. Not a perfect solution, but it works for every game and limits the process to only hitting one button to continue.

The downside to that approach is that there are a few unusual situations like a 2-credit single-player game of Omega Race.

IMHO it's better to keep P1/P2 Coin and P1/P2 Start as 4 separate buttons/inputs. YMMV.


Scott

[Malenko]

The downside to that approach is that there are a few unusual situations like a 2-credit single-player game of Omega Race.

IMHO it's better to keep P1/P2 Coin and P1/P2 Start as 4 separate buttons/inputs. YMMV.


Scott

If you mean starting omega race with extra ships, hit P2 start then P1 start. Playing a 2 player game just means hitting player 2 start until the game starts. He admits its not a perfect solution, but its a clever one (similar idea to what I posted in a similar thread)   Having work around for what amounts to a handful of games is a serviceable substitute, especially considering not all games have a free play option.

[DeLuSioNal29]

Looks like the dev for cfg magician (Altair) posted an update so that it can be used with the newer versions of MAME:

Sorry for the late response, I have pretty much dropped out of the scene.

Here is the script that I use to create the Data Files. It is very raw, with no GUI and very little error checking. Download the source files from www.mamedev.org and place the src folder in the same folder as the Scan Source files.
(see Before.jpg - attached)
Run 'Scan Source 7.1.ahk' if you have AutoHotKey installed, otherwise run 'Scan Source 7.1.exe'

When complete, files will be added to the folder and you will have this:
(see After.jpg - attached)
The files that you want are in the Mame 0.xxx Data Files folder.

Recently, MameDev changed <port tag="IN0" to <port tag=":IN0". Simple changes like this will cause CFG Magician to fail. The lines that would need to be changed in Scan Source 7.1.ahk are line numbers 457 and 630.

If for any reason the created files don't work, and you can't figure out why, reply to this post and I will take a look.

Edit: To be clear, Scan Source 7.1 works with current versions of Mame. I was just stating that because of MameDev changes sometimes things get broken.
Attached Files

[IAmDotorg]

Yeah that's the version I worked off of. I don't remember what all I changed. I added parsing support for including the start and coin buttons in the data files, but I know I fixed something else in there, too. (The script I wrote uses the same data files as input and does basically the same thing as his tool, but does it for video orientation, start and coin controls.)

[jaharr01]

I have MameUI 64 and I think there is a freeplay setting in the UI.

[PL1]

The downside to that approach is that there are a few unusual situations like a 2-credit single-player game of Omega Race.

IMHO it's better to keep P1/P2 Coin and P1/P2 Start as 4 separate buttons/inputs. YMMV.

If you mean starting omega race with extra ships, hit P2 start then P1 start.

Sorry, but that will either start a 3-ship 1 player game and leave one credit or start a 3-ship 2 player game. (depending on the free-play dipswitch setting)

There were 4 "volcano" start buttons on the CP.



The workaround to the workaround is that Omega Race has a free-play dipswitch setting.
(PROTIP: You'll need to coin up once after setting the freeplay dipswitch -- the system will always display 4 credits and allow you to start 1P or 2P, 3-ship or 7-ship games)

If freeplay is off, the approach you propose will start a 3-ship 1 player game and leave one credit.

If freeplay is on,  the approach you propose will start a 3-ship 2 player game.

Fortunately, you can sidestep the problem by enabling freeplay and mapping P1B3 and P1B4 to start 7-ship 1 and 2 player games.   

He admits its not a perfect solution, but its a clever one (similar idea to what I posted in a similar thread)   Having work around for what amounts to a handful of games is a serviceable substitute, especially considering not all games have a free play option.

I agree that his workaround is a clever solution for most games, but there are a few that might cause problems.

Bottom line: Always check the desired gamelist to see if there are any games that will not work with whatever approach you decide to use on a build.   


Scott

[Malenko]

Sorry, but that will either start a 3-ship 1 player game and leave one credit or start a 3-ship 2 player game. (depending on the free-play dipswitch setting)

The point of your focus isn't showing the short comings of the fix, it is merely citing an abnormal need for a single game to require addition start buttons. Even if the panel has dedicated coin buttons, the traditional start buttons would still be an issue ;even the game had free play enabled by default the regular start buttons would still be an issue. Omega Race literally has no bearing on anything concerning free play, which is why I was/am so baffled you keep bringing it up in every discussion about free play.

If the panel only has 4 buttons, you alter the fix to the game. The 2 start buttons become 7 ship starts with coin ups. Fire and Thrust act as 3 ship starts with no auto coin up.

All that being said, the band-aid to have a script coin up prior to pushing start would be for games that don't support free play, further invalidating your one of a kind example. Again, its a "blanket fix" and obviously wouldn't work 100% across all games without some tweaking. I look forward to you retorting with an even more isolated example. 

[PL1]

Sorry, but that will either start a 3-ship 1 player game and leave one credit or start a 3-ship 2 player game. (depending on the free-play dipswitch setting)

so you can play a 2 player - 3 ship game on a single credit?

Nope.

1P 3-ship = 1 credit
2P 3-ship = 2 credits
1P 7-ship = 2 credits
2P 7-ship = 4 credits

If you mean starting omega race with extra ships, hit P2 start then P1 start.

Assuming that you start with no credits if free-play is off and the start buttons trigger a script that adds a credit then sends the associated start keystroke.

If free-play is on:
* Hitting P2 start will start a 2P 3-ship game. (credit won't matter, just the P2 start keystroke) -- may need to press it twice if starting with 0 credits
* When the game ends, 4 credits will be displayed. (enough to start any game version)

If freeplay is off:
* Hitting P2 start will add a credit but the P2 start keystroke won't matter. (only one credit so you can't start a 2P game)
* When you hit P1 start, the script will add a second credit then send the P1 start keystroke.
* This will start a 1P 3-ship game that uses up one of the two credits, leaving one credit.
* Once that game is done, if you press P2 start, it will start a 2P 3-ship game. (leftover credit + new credit and P2 start keystroke from the "P2 start" script)


Scott

[yotsuya]

If your cab doesn't have a spinner, then Omega Race doesn't matter, now does it? 

[Malenko]

1P 3-ship = 1 credit
2P 3-ship = 2 credits
1P 7-ship = 2 credits
2P 7-ship = 4 credits

Wow, glossing over the point of my reply, about there being 4 start buttons and a free play option which makes Omega Race a terrible example to bring up a point I corrected when I found out there were 4 start buttons? I didn't know there were 4 start buttons, so I changed my reply to match the new information. I totally get how the credit system works, do you get how the auto coining would work?

If the panel only has 4 buttons, you alter the fix to the game. The 2 start buttons become 7 ship starts with coin ups. Fire and Thrust act as 3 ship starts with no auto coin up.

I'll X2 it down for ya:
Player 1 start = 7 ship start button and adds 1 credit to the game.  This way it coins up and cannot start the game because it doesn't have 2 credits inserted.
Hit this button twice to start a single player 7 ship game

Player 2 start = 7 ship 2 player game start. This button will not start a game unless 4 credits are inserted into the game.
Hit this button 4 times to start a 2 player 7 ship game.

Thrust = 1 player 3 ship start and it doesnt add coins when pressed.
Hit P1 start then this to start a single player 3 ship game

Fire = 2 player 3 ship start and it doesnt add coins when pressed.
Hit P2 start twice then this to start a 2 player 3 ship game.



Now pretty pretty please explain to me how needing a work around for having 4 start buttons has any bearing on the actual free play setting?

[PL1]

I look forward to you retorting with an even more isolated example. 

My answers were based on your "If you mean starting omega race with extra ships, hit P2 start then P1 start." and "so you can play a 2 player - 3 ship game on a single credit?" posts that could be misleading to less experienced individuals.

I'm sure that you know how it works -- the clarification was for them.

I didn't notice you had edited your "so you can play a 2 player - 3 ship game on a single credit?" post until I started typing up this post.   

If your cab doesn't have a spinner, then Omega Race doesn't matter, now does it? 

Omega Race is just one possible example off the top of my head which is why I posted this bottom line statement.

Bottom line: Always check the desired gamelist to see if there are any games that will not work with whatever approach you decide to use on a build.   

Does anyone disagree with this?


Scott

[Malenko]

I didn't notice you had edited your "so you can play a 2 player - 3 ship game on a single credit?" post until I started typing up this post.   

Yeah why bother reading before you reply, am I right? I took out my rhetorical question because it wasn't needed, and I knew some dick bag would come along and answer it, not realizing it was rhetorical and her did.

Now, can you pretty pretty pretty please tell me how any cab with only 2 start buttons wouldn't run into the exact same issue even if it had free play and or a credit button?
Now do you see why the issue has nothing to do with free play or auto coin dropping scripts?

Thanks to your pointless detour all discussions have focused on a "one off" game that has nothing to do with the issue at hand instead of the conversation fleshing out more and possibly better ideas.

[keilmillerjr]

If there are only a few of those one off 4 button start on a 2 player games, that could be factored in. Obviously my method is only one option for a work around. It's actually a work around I wouldn't use, but tossed it out there to possibly solve the origional posts issue.

[Haze]

As mentioned already, there are a number of cases where Free Play isn't a good idea.

Some games will fail to run their attract modes in free play, just sitting on the title screen, or sometimes starting the game over and over again. (OutRun for example)
Some games are buggy and freeplay will actually cause the game to glitch or crash - arcades generally weren't designed to be operated on 'free play' so manufacturers didn't always test it extensively. (Cookie & Bibi 3 for example)
Other games link the Free Play mode to other cheats, because it was designed for developers.
and plenty of games simply don't have a freeplay mode.

Either way, there's no universal way to set the option, different games often have different requirements (some require both coin slots set to freeplay with the dipswitches, others have dedicated free play dipswitches, more recent titles require freeplay to be enabled in the game service mode where it gets stored in backup ram)  there's simply no universal way to do it, because games don't act in identical ways, and for the service mode ones MAME doesn't even have knowledge of where the setting is stored because it's just another variable in RAM like any other part of the running game rather than a hardware switch.

[DaOld Man]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I will just add two more credit buttons, seems like the easiest thing to do.
Although CP space and money for buttons played a major part in this question, it's mostly the fact that if you have more emulators (NES, etc) and mame, mame is the only one (AFAIK) that uses the credit buttons, so it just seems wasteful to have two buttons that are only needed for mame games. But if there is no easy, rock solid way around it, so be it.

[Malenko]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I will just add two more credit buttons, seems like the easiest thing to do.

That's not a legitimate fix YOU STILL CANT PLAY 7 SHIP OMEGA RACE!!?!?!?!?!!?!


Seriously though, you don't use an encoder that can use shifted keys or anything? I'm not sure how many 2 player games would require a unique coin up per player. Maybe you can get away with just 1 credit button?

[yotsuya]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I will just add two more credit buttons, seems like the easiest thing to do.
Although CP space and money for buttons played a major part in this question, it's mostly the fact that if you have more emulators (NES, etc) and mame, mame is the only one (AFAIK) that uses the credit buttons, so it just seems wasteful to have two buttons that are only needed for mame games. But if there is no easy, rock solid way around it, so be it.

Someone say something about wasteful buttons....?

[lamprey]

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I will just add two more credit buttons, seems like the easiest thing to do.
Although CP space and money for buttons played a major part in this question, it's mostly the fact that if you have more emulators (NES, etc) and mame, mame is the only one (AFAIK) that uses the credit buttons, so it just seems wasteful to have two buttons that are only needed for mame games. But if there is no easy, rock solid way around it, so be it.

You might try doing a search (I can check later if I remember) but, someone put together a script Auto Hot Key (AHK?) to send a different command if a button is held down rather than simply pressed. This might be an option for you to avoid the cost of two buttons.