Legendary Atari 2600 E.T. Landfill Excavated

[Anpanman]

The legend is true.  They found it!

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/landfill-excavation-unearths-years-of-crushed-atari-treasure/

[yotsuya]

Ha ha! Thanks for the link!

[SavannahLion]

Not sure why, but it makes me squirm a bit knowing Microsoft is involved. Makes it less like an archeological dig.

[pbj]

Friend of mine went but bailed before anything interesting was dug up.

Color me skeptical until we see a million cartridges.  I've never believed this story.

[Howard_Casto]

We will never see a million.  Scrounging through 30 year old trash is a bit of work and the city only gave them a single day to poke around.  They are looking for anything unique as there are rumored prototypes in that mess somewhere.

[sharpfork]

If I dig around in my multiple boxes of console crap, I'd likely find two copies of E.T.

[ark_ader]

I wonder if the plastics, circuit boards and paper are recyclable.  Maybe goldmine in 50 years?

[ChadTower]

It's amazing how things stay preserved in that environment.  In New England you would only find blank plastic.  Everything else would have been composted long ago.  Even the metals would likely be gone after 30 years underground.

Note that they're not really doing this to find cool stuff.  They're doing it to make a film.  The single day of work might actually be all they need to accomplish their goals. 

[SavannahLion]

I was thinking about this last night. Yeah, that's what especially bothers me, they're doing it just to make a film. An "exclusive" xbox one at that. I find that rather insulting. I for one would love to know if any prototypes were discarded and would like to see if they're recoverable. The place is no longer used? Let the true Atari fans have at it. They'll dig it all up proper.

[DaveMMR]

Never understood the doubts behind the claim of the dumping. Atari was notoriously bad at overproducing products (12 millions Pac-Man carts for 10 million consoles). It seemed like a given all that overstock had to go somewhere. Didn't need Microsoft's documentary crew to prove it for us.

But yeah, it'll be cool if they turn up a prototype or something rare. But more than likely, they're going to be finding the physical example of why businesses need to understand supply vs. demand.

What's even funnier is Atari turned around and churned out another run of E.T. carts in 1986 anyway.

[ChadTower]

The place is no longer used? Let the true Atari fans have at it. They'll dig it all up proper.

The site is contaminated and there were months of impact analyses that had to be done before they were allowed to disturb the ground.  I seriously doubt they were ever going to be allowed anty real excavation.

[Howard_Casto]

Never understood the doubts behind the claim of the dumping. Atari was notoriously bad at overproducing products (12 millions Pac-Man carts for 10 million consoles). It seemed like a given all that overstock had to go somewhere. Didn't need Microsoft's documentary crew to prove it for us.

I guess some people don't know the story of this documentary then.  It was started by an independent company, they ran out of money, M$ sponsored them.  Originally they weren't going to have anything to do with it.  So no this isn't a M$ publicity stunt.  Don't get me wrong, they are milking it for all it's worth though.

I don't think any sane person would doubt the dumping, but the "legend" has grown a little over the years.  I would say that it's reasonable that thousands, , maybe even 100,000 or more ET carts were dumped there, but the millions that some claim is unlikely.  The damned things kept popping up in forgotten warehouses for one, and also that particular landfill isn't that big.  If they did dump a million carts or more there, it would have an "E.T. layer" of sediment where for about a foot down anywhere you dug, you'd run into E.T.  carts.  But yeah, Atari dumped a lot of their crap there back in the day, it's not a myth but a well known, well documented fact. 

[RandyT]

I don't think any sane person would doubt the dumping, but the "legend" has grown a little over the years.  I would say that it's reasonable that thousands, , maybe even 100,000 or more ET carts were dumped there, but the millions that some claim is unlikely.  The damned things kept popping up in forgotten warehouses for one, and also that particular landfill isn't that big.  If they did dump a million carts or more there, it would have an "E.T. layer" of sediment where for about a foot down anywhere you dug, you'd run into E.T.  carts.  But yeah, Atari dumped a lot of their crap there back in the day, it's not a myth but a well known, well documented fact.

I agree.  I'm skeptical of the numbers as well.  A couple of E.T. carts in a 30 year old landfill, doesn't exactly prove anything.  I have a lot more than that in my "dupes" box.  I want to see a few consecutive buckets come up peppered with them, but so far nothing like that has been shown.

[pbj]

The components in those carts were worth actual money back then.

You know how when they find some Sumerian site and it's nothing but tax records?

Same here.

[DaveMMR]

I guess some people don't know the story of this documentary then.  It was started by an independent company, they ran out of money, M$ sponsored them.  Originally they weren't going to have anything to do with it.  So no this isn't a M$ publicity stunt.  Don't get me wrong, they are milking it for all it's worth though.

Interesting. Didn't realize Microsoft didn't start the documentary. Full disclosure: didn't read up on it that much as it really didn't seem that interesting when I first read about it. Atari threw overstock in the garbage, they're going to find it! Yay?

Yeah, it could turn around in a second if they found something that never hit store shelves (even if, likely, it's crushed and broken - though I read that a couple of those E.T. cards were operational.) But finding the same games everyone had in their collection (and today's collectors can't even give away) does not a compelling documentary make. Though I'm sure they'll stick stories about how E.T. is the "worst game ever" and how it "caused the crash". It's no masterpiece but that game gets picked on more than it deserves.

Yeah, I'm complaining about a documentary that hasn't even been released yet. I'm just being cranky. Don't mind me. 

[ark_ader]

I always remembered my old book of "1001 games for 1K", but with the exception of that halo game made recently for the 2600, there was not a lot you could do in 4K.  Obviously with the tape recorder expanders things improved, but ET wasn't that bad for 5 weeks of programming and design.

Pacman was fun to play as was Donkey Kong, but at $59.99 a cartridge to a twelve year old, you expected a game to last.  Demon Attack and Pitfall (I loved TESB by Parker bros.) being the exception.

I still play Demon Attack on my Galaxy Note2 while waiting in line at the grocery store. 

[Howard_Casto]

The actual quality of the game ET wasn't what killed Atari, but the business practices that got them to that point did and it's very much a symbol of it.  They spend a then, unheard of, sum of money on the license to the film, only to use it to produce the shoddily kludged together mess that was ET at the last minute.  They then went on to produce more copies of the game than there were consoles in existence, even knowing full well that the game was rushed.  After they realized their blunder, instead of trying to recoup their losses by recycling the physical carts into different games, they threw out the majority of them. 

So yeah ET was the death rattle of Atari, it just wasn't for the reasons everyone claims.

The other thing that killed it and the video game industry in general was Activision's court victory over Atari that basically made it legal for third parties to produce carts for a console without the parent companies consent.  The 2600 didn't have any protection to speak of (a feature that EVERY console afterwards would have to combat the court decision) so any idgit claiming to be a programmer would make "games" for the system.  I put games in quotes because most of them weren't even playable.  Well these games quickly fell to the bargain bin and it was hard for makers of quality games to compete with retail prices when mom and dad could walk into a toy store and literally find a barrel of the discount "games" for a couple bucks a piece. 

[RandyT]

The other thing that killed it and the video game industry in general was Activision's court victory over Atari that basically made it legal for third parties to produce carts for a console without the parent companies consent.  The 2600 didn't have any protection to speak of (a feature that EVERY console afterwards would have to combat the court decision) so any idgit claiming to be a programmer would make "games" for the system.  I put games in quotes because most of them weren't even playable.  Well these games quickly fell to the bargain bin and it was hard for makers of quality games to compete with retail prices when mom and dad could walk into a toy store and literally find a barrel of the discount "games" for a couple bucks a piece.

I don't dispute that this was much to blame, but I'm not so sure it had the effect you are describing.  To state that this was the case, is to say that the free market system, which works in just about every other area,  somehow couldn't work in the case of the 2600.  If Junior wanted "Pac-Man" and mom brought home "Name this Game" and "Dishaster" because she could get both for less, Junior would likely be more than a bit upset.   The crash, IMHO, was more about the fact that, as popular as the early consoles were, they didn't have a user base capable of supporting so many publishers.  Consider the following (arranged chronologically);

source

Atari 2600 / VCS (Atari, 1977, 1985) - 30 million units

---------

Nintendo Entertainment System (Nintendo, 1983, 1985) - 61.91 million units

----------

Mega Drive / Genesis (Sega, 1988, 1989) - 39 million units

Super Nintendo Entertainment System (Nintendo, 1990) - 49.10 million units

---------

PlayStation (Sony, 1994) - 104.25 million units

Nintendo 64 (Nintendo, 1996) - 32.93 million units

---------

PlayStation 2 (Sony, 2000) - 153.68 million units

---------

XBox 360 (Microsoft, 2005) - 65.80 million units

Wii (Nintendo, 2006) - 95.25 million units

PlayStation 3 (Sony, 2006) - 62.11 million units

This paints a pretty clear picture as to the increase in the console market size over the course of history, indicating a gradual sociological shift to where we find ourselves today.  Combine the increase in publishers, sometimes rushed and shoddy offerings from even the large houses, an aging system at the end of it's capabilities and a jaded and often non-savvy consumer who jumped in for the novelty of it, and the crash was inevitable.  Obviously, there were still those who were "hardcore" gamers (you know who you are) and continued to crave more, but the numbers just weren't there to sustain the bloated commercial landscape of that time period.  The NES was the console to capture a new generation of gamers, and whether Nintendo limited competition solely to fatten their bottom line or not, it had a very positive effect on market sustainability.  Their actions, followed by similar actions from other console makers, are very likely what prevented another crash, allowing for the market to continue to grow.

[Howard_Casto]

An install base is important if you are talking in terms of raw units, but it's fairly irrelevant if we are talking about sales percentages and attachment rates.  The earlier systems had fewer resources put into the games, so there was more profit per title... you didn't need as large an install base because you didn't need to sell nearly as many copies.   A 2600 title would have one employee working on it, maybe 2.  A nes cart usually had a team of 5 to 10 in the early days, a couple of dozen or more later on.  Fast-forward to today and it isn't unusual to have a team of over 200 working on a title, not including play testers and out-sourcing.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see the correlation you are seeing at all. 

You are forgetting that in the late early 80's / late 70's video games we considered toys, there was virtually no coverage on video games like there is now (you basically had the mis-leading box art to go by, the sole reason that early nes titles used the actual pixel art and had a mandatory 3 snap shots on the back for a first few years after the crash) and kids weren't as spoiled as they are now. 

Long story short you got what your parents brought home and you were thankful for it and both you and your parents were basically clueless as to what game you were getting until you actually popped it in. 

And actually yes, I AM claiming that the free market system doesn't work for video games.  It's a very strange market with monopolies, prices set by the manufacturers, controlled product and a counter-intuitive consumer base where there is a good chance the person who purchases a title might not be buying it for themselves.  I mean you can go back and look at history, the economy rarely has an impact on the video game market or it responds contradictory to every single market out there, including other forms of media.

One of the main reasons the modern video game industry doesn't go under is BECAUSE it isn't a free market.  Nintendo releases a new game.  You'll pay 60 bucks for it.  The free market doesn't determine this price, Nintendo does.  If any store tries to sell it for less, Nintendo won't sell them any future titles, so everyone has to conform.  Every single solitary publisher sets it up this way as well.  Only after a certain period of time are stores allowed to discount the games and even then they may have to get permission from the publisher. 

People wonder why the PC is a second class citizen when it comes to games these days, basically getting console ports and indie titles only.  The reason is almost exclusively the fault of the steam sale.  The market is no longer fixed and thus it can't sustain itself in a viable fashion. 

You need to decide for yourself if this is a good thing or not but it has played a major factor in the downfall of pc gaming and if the big three ever stop fixing the console market, we'll see a similar fallout. 

[pbj]

TL;DR

[yotsuya]

If Junior wanted "Pac-Man" and mom brought home "Name this Game" and "Dishaster" because she could get both for less, Junior would likely be more than a bit upset.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

My favorite time for the Atari was towards the end, when we could get games at a mall kiosk for $5, and then shortly later for $0.50 at the local drugstore. We got a lot of good games that way.

[DaveMMR]

Yeah Howard and Randy hit it on the head. Just to add that besides Atari's missteps (and there were a lot - come to think of it, they were pretty bad at the home console game post-Bushnell) was the rise of home computers. Why even bother with a console when you can get the same games for your 8-bit computer plus dozens of more complex titles as well? Really, it was the perfect storm of a whole bunch of things going on - E.T. just gets the blame.

That said,  E.T. - even without the fixes they posted on the internet - is not that bad of a game. You can finish it and if you recognize the quirks, you can avoid them (i.e. weird pixel-perfect collision detection.) Also, play on variation 3 until you get the hang of it. It's no Keystone Kapers or Yars Revenge but it's nowhere near "worst game ever" either.

[yotsuya]

That said,  E.T. - even without the fixes they posted on the internet - is not that bad of a game. You can finish it and if you recognize the quirks, you can avoid them (i.e. weird pixel-perfect collision detection.) Also, play on variation 3 until you get the hang of it. It's no Keystone Kapers or Yars Revenge but it's nowhere near "worst game ever" either.

Agreed. I used to enjoy the game BITD because I could definitely "beat" it.

[DaveMMR]

If Junior wanted "Pac-Man" and mom brought home "Name this Game" and "Dishaster" because she could get both for less, Junior would likely be more than a bit upset.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

My favorite time for the Atari was towards the end, when we could get games at a mall kiosk for $5, and then shortly later for $0.50 at the local drugstore. We got a lot of good games that way.

Yeah, what barely gets mentioned is that the crash was initially GREAT for the consumer in many respects. Suddenly we were swimming in carts for next-to-nothing. Christmas 1983 was pretty great for my Colecovision library.  The long term downside is that we lost many great companies (Imagic, the aforementioned Coleco, and... ummm.. Quaker Oat's US Games.)

[yotsuya]

Yeah, as a 10 year old, I didn't understand "The Crash" at the time. I just knew that I could get RealSports Baseball for $2.50, Kangaroo for $5, and Chopper Command for $0.50 freaking cents. I also remember taking birthday money and buying a new Atari (I wore out my old one) and a Q-Bert game at Lionel's Playworld for $50. Good times.

And don't forget The "M" Network. Cool name.

[pbj]

If it were 1982, I'd be getting 50 cent games and soaking in a hot tub with my soulmate....

[RandyT]

That's the thing that I think Howard might not be fully considering.  There were excellent 3rd party publishers, many of which where pushing the limits of the system further than even Atari.  I remember seeing Atari's later titles (BattleZone, MsPac) and thinking to myself, "it's about damn time, Atari". 

Also, while very early in the life of the 2600, there was little to find in the way of reviews, it certainly was not that way by the end.  No self-respecting game aficionado was without a subscription to one of the videogame magazines of the time, or at least picked one up from the newstand from time to time.  In fact, it could be argued that by the time these magazines were in full-swing, the market started tanking, possibly implying a connection.  People became more selective about what they bought, leaving the "stinkers" on the shelf.  When there is a mass production of hardware (very expensive at the time) and the game flopped, it took more than a few companies down financially.

[DaveMMR]

And don't forget The "M" Network. Cool name.

Oh yeah, that was Mattel and yeah we lost their gaming contributions as well.

Heh - call me dense but I only just realized that M Network carts were just Intellivision carts with an adapter snapped-on at the end (and, of course, different innards.) They're really annoying to store on a shelf because  of that weird shape.

That's the thing that I think Howard might not be fully considering.  There were excellent 3rd party publishers, many of which where pushing the limits of the system further than even Atari.  I remember seeing Atari's later titles (BattleZone, MsPac) and thinking to myself, "it's about damn time, Atari". 

Also, while very early in the life of the 2600, there was little to find in the way of reviews, it certainly was not that way by the end.  No self-respecting game aficionado was without a subscription to one of the videogame magazines of the time, or at least picked one up from the newstand from time to time.  In fact, it could be argued that by the time these magazines were in full-swing, the market started tanking, possibly implying a connection.  People became more selective about what they bought, leaving the "stinkers" on the shelf.  When there is a mass production of hardware (very expensive at the time) and the game flopped, it took more than a few companies down financially.

There were great third parties. Activision still represents the top quality VCS carts, as does Imagic. And Parker Brothers had a lot of good titles.  And 20th Century Fox's Fantastic Voyage is still a great little shooter (M*A*S*H ain't too bad either, and Porky's is amusing enough if not particularly great.)

I think what kills it though were the dozens of publishers cashing-in on a fad.  Mystique, Data Age, the aforementioned US Gold (Chase the Chuck Wagon), Johnson & Johnson (Tooth Protectors), etc. 

Though it could be said that there weren't so many "aficionados" than there were just regular, casual  consumers who were buying hardware at the height of the frenzy but had no interest in subscribing to magazines to discern the good from the bad. The dedicated gamers' numbers weren't enough to support the glut of product - and they moved onto the home computers anyway (which had more choices and easier to obtain software - *cough* pirate *cough*.)

[pbj]

Fun fact, the Nintendo Wii is the modern incarnation of the 1983 video game crash.

[RandyT]

I think what kills it though were the dozens of publishers cashing-in on a fad.  Mystique, Data Age, the aforementioned US Gold (Chase the Chuck Wagon), Johnson & Johnson (Tooth Protectors), etc. 

Though it could be said that there weren't so many "aficionados" than there were just regular, casual  consumers who were buying hardware at the height of the frenzy but had no interest in subscribing to magazines to discern the good from the bad. The dedicated gamers' numbers weren't enough to support the glut of product - and they moved onto the home computers anyway (which had more choices and easier to obtain software - *cough* pirate *cough*.)

Agreed.  But even the casual consumers probably knew one of "us" who were a bit more tuned into the offerings available, and listened.

Fun fact, the Nintendo Wii is the modern incarnation of the 1983 video game crash.

I decided not to go there

[pbj]

Come on, they managed to sell 100 million units that are hated by 95 million of their owners.

Go there.

 

[DaveMMR]

Fun fact, the Nintendo Wii is the modern incarnation of the 1983 video game crash.

There is talk of a modern-day crash but for completely different reasons. A lot of the things present in the first crash aren't being repeated by the Nintendo. There is shovelware but's that's been true of a lot of consoles. And it's not like every half-assed Wii game you find on the endcaps of your local Kohl's or Old Navy is being ported to nine different platforms. For the most part, Nintendo would only be hurting themselves - there's still an industry outside and separate of Redmond's hardware. (And they're actually able to afford major missteps, financially speaking.)

[RandyT]

Again, I agree.  But there are a few important parallels in as far as mass adoption based on the novelty, by the casual consumer who quickly became jaded and got "burned" with shovelware.  If the Wii was the only game in town, history would likely have repeated itself.  Fortunately, it wasn't.

[yotsuya]

I thought there were a lot of hidden gems in the later years, games I loved playing that weren't "AAA Titles" but great timewasters. Games like Air Raiders, Frogs N Flies, Starmaster. Activision and Imagic games were the best. Atlantis, Pitfall, Subquest, even Skiing...

What I think hurt Atari towards the end was a number of games you couldn't just pick up and figure out. My cousin bought Swordquest and we were all excited, but it quickly got tossed aside when we didn't understand what the hell it was we were supposed to do. Raiders of the Lost Ark was the same way.

[DaveMMR]

As I prepare for my flogging I will say this - I think the Wii actually helped PREVENT another crash.  Hear me out....

By the mid-2000's, there was really little difference between Xbox/Xbox360 and Playstation 2/3 offerings. If Nintendo released similar hardware, it would have been just too many choices again (save for the handful of exclusives) without any standout difference between the platforms leading to consumer apathy (one of the causes of 83's crash.)  Giving the public an inexpensive novelty as an alternative got people buying games who previously were not. And don't forget, Nintendo did make a profit on those consoles and those shovelware games are cheaper to produce anyway (discs, not expensive carts.) 

Yeah, long-term, N's reputation suffered. But their decision at the time wasn't a bad one.

[pbj]

Yeah, good points.  We're already seeing extreme discounts on the Xbox One and PS4.  Clearly these things aren't selling at the pace hoped for.

I think too many people get the casual games on their phones for anyone to be seriously interested in a console doing the same.  WiiU is just about to surpass the Atari Jaguar on my regretted purchase list.

[joeH]

I don't think any sane person would doubt the dumping, but the "legend" has grown a little over the years.  I would say that it's reasonable that thousands, , maybe even 100,000 or more ET carts were dumped there, but the millions that some claim is unlikely.  The damned things kept popping up in forgotten warehouses for one, and also that particular landfill isn't that big.  If they did dump a million carts or more there, it would have an "E.T. layer" of sediment where for about a foot down anywhere you dug, you'd run into E.T.  carts.  But yeah, Atari dumped a lot of their crap there back in the day, it's not a myth but a well known, well documented fact.

I agree.  I'm skeptical of the numbers as well.  A couple of E.T. carts in a 30 year old landfill, doesn't exactly prove anything.  I have a lot more than that in my "dupes" box.  I want to see a few consecutive buckets come up peppered with them, but so far nothing like that has been shown.

I went to the dig.  I live about an hour away, so I figured why not kill and afternoon.  I saw them scoop up 8 bucket-fulls.  Each scoop had a ton of boxes, games, etc... in them.  Definitely where Atari dumped them. 

As for the numbers, USA Today ran an article yesterday speaking to the former Atari manager from El Paso at the time.  762,000 cartridges were dumped.  Not exactly the "millions" that people claim, and definitely not only E.T..  I saw many different games in the rubble from Centipede, to Circus Atari, Berserk...

I spoke to the director for a few minutes.  They did the "pre-dig" the day before.  Apparently the first truckloads were just dumped and were supposed to be guarded by security.  Security never showed up, and the site was being looted by kids.  Subsequent truckloads were paved over with concrete.  The concrete was located, and they chose a spot "near" the concrete in order to find relics from the first truckloads which were not encased in concrete. 

I've uploaded pics in the 2600 forum thread over at atariage if anyone is interested.

[ChadTower]

I totally believe that the site would be looted by kids.  My friends and I used to loot the crap out of the dumpsters behind Parker Bros in Salem, MA.  Tons and tons of QA failed toys, game pieces, etc.  You can do a whole lot of fun things with 25,000 Monopoly hotels or 200 deformed Nerf balls.

[pbj]

There is next to nothing in Alamogordo.  That would be some supremely single minded children to make a trek out there for some smashed up cartridges.

[joeH]

There is next to nothing in Alamogordo.  That would be some supremely single minded children to make a trek out there for some smashed up cartridges.

The digsite was less than a mile from the main road through town.  It wouldn't have been a trek to get some games.