Mame 153 is out, apparently EVERYTHING is new.

[Howard_Casto]

http://www.mameworld.info/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Number=324212

This is the first wip I can remember in ages that I've had to scroll through.  Lots of core changes, so it should be fun. 

Hap's modification to my Outrun outputs was accepted, so that's good. 

[baritonomarchetto]

Well done! 

[pbj]

Do you still need a quad core to run Pacman?

[404]

There was lots of buzz about this in some of the last few dev builds but i sort of ignored them. Apparently they weren't kidding. The palette changes are what people will see an immediate effect on.

[Generic Eric]

The palette changes are what people will see an immediate effect on.

The colors will be different?  Or are we talking about the difference between CMYK and RGB?

[WakiMiko]

Oh man, this version adds support for the "forbidden" Cave SH3 games, including but not limited to:

• Mushihime-sama
• Ibara
• Mushihime-sama Futari
• Pink Sweets
• Muchi Muchi Pork
• DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu
• Deathsmiles

This is just awesome 

[pbj]

Does Gauntlet Legends run any better?

[DeLuSioNal29]

Is the sound fixed on Mario Bros and Donkey Kong?

[Howard_Casto]

You naysayers will probably like this build actually or at least the direction it's going.  Palettes being the best example of this, what used to be a blanketed universal function now has the option of being individually tailored for a certain game.  So minor tweaks for particular are now a lot easier to do.   At least that was one of the things I got out of it. 

[404]

The palette changes are what people will see an immediate effect on.

The colors will be different?  Or are we talking about the difference between CMYK and RGB?

Putting a small Socket 775 rig together now to run some basic tests and benchmarks. I will probably have some more findings over the weekend.

[Haze]

the colours aren't going to be different, no.

the majority of what is listed in that changelog will make absolutely no difference to somebody just running MAME, it's mostly just refactoring of code which may eventually allow you to run multiple games (or multiple copies of the same game) from a single instance of MAME at the same time without any hacks being required to do so.

this will be handy for systems that can be linked together, especially in areas like MESS where you might want to emulate 2 gameboy units and the connect them via the connector cable, all within a single instance of the emulator, that's a rather basic use case of course ;-)

despite the size of the whatsnew there's actually not a great deal interesting from an end users point of view, it's 4 months work, with the majority of that spent refactoring existing code.

the Cave games are officially back, as somebody has already noted, and all the things I've mentioned on my page since the turn of the year are there too, but that isn't actually a huge amount compared to the 'start of year' activity we've seen in previous years.

[Hunk_4TH]

Yep lots of awesome changes etc in this version! I just wish they would add FFB in for the racing games that supported them already :/

[benarcade]

Compiled it last night with the hiscore diff no nag patch version 151 - 152, and it works fine. All my roms work too.

[Howard_Casto]

Yep lots of awesome changes etc in this version! I just wish they would add FFB in for the racing games that supported them already :/

Well that would be none of them, so bing!  Wish granted. 

Motor controllers and rumble effects and directX FF are totally different animals.  We can use mame's outputs after some conversions and kludging to get them to play nice with FF, but the only way to add it directly into mame would be via  a gross hack at which point you've got wonder who decides which devices (all ff devices are handled a little differently) we skew the hacking towards. 

That's why I mentioned the Outrun source btw... that'll hookup outputs for both the standard (rumble) and deluxe versions of the game.  A few others as well if I remember correctly... turbo outrun, ect.  Man I need to get back to that, there are literally a pile of outputs I discovered only to have the incredibly bad timing of getting them ready just before a major overhaul of the sega drivers.  In particular I've got afterburner and it's brother games working. 

[Hunk_4TH]

Aren't there FF drivers though in Mame? I know there has to be quite a few racing games like the Crusin series that had FF. I guess I was wrong ha ha.

[Tzakiel]

Oh man, this version adds support for the "forbidden" Cave SH3 games, including but not limited to:

• Mushihime-sama
• Ibara
• Mushihime-sama Futari
• Pink Sweets
• Muchi Muchi Pork
• DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu
• Deathsmiles

This is just awesome 

I, too, am mostly excited by this. However, hiscore saving is hit and miss... hoping for a diff and dat update that will fix all.

[Howard_Casto]

Aren't there FF drivers though in Mame? I know there has to be quite a few racing games like the Crusin series that had FF. I guess I was wrong ha ha.

Force Feedback = a Proprietary Microsoft term for a feature in some DirectX compatible controllers.  There are zero arcade games with force feedback because Microsoft doesn't make arcade cabinets.

I think you completely misunderstood my explanation.   Mame is all about accuracy.  So any outputs on a game are going to be hooked up more or less as they would go to the motor (or motor driver board) on the real machine.  For this to work on a  off the shelf usb ff wheel/joystick, whatever, that data needs to be converted.  So it would be a hack job, and mame doesn't really like hack jobs.  So the unmolested outputs are broadcast to mamehooker or a similar application, the conversion is done there, and then you get the FF.  Plus there is the whole cross-platform deal.  FF devices tend to have a lot better driver support in windows than they do Linux/macos for obvious reasons. 

[pbj]

And yet no Golden Tee.... if MAME is so legal, what do the devs have to fear?

 

[ark_ader]

And yet no Golden Tee.... if MAME is so legal, what do the devs have to fear?

 

Probably the same way the Mamedevs shy away from DLLLC games.. Incredible Technologies would clean the Mamedev's financial clocks.  You don't go stomping on thin ice unless you want to be drowned.  Mame legal? 

Looking at this on the side of serious     


.153 and Pengo's colours are still wrong.   

[Haze]

And yet no Golden Tee.... if MAME is so legal, what do the devs have to fear?

 

you do realise that in 4 months the only 2 people to have written new WORKING drivers are myself (the Mega Phoenix driver) and Roberto Fresca (various Video Poker games)

All the other new game additions are slot-ins for existing drivers, although in the case of X2222, Happy 6-in-1, Aaargh, Spectral vs Generation and Carket Ball (all my work) and Top Blade V (ElSemi's work) a decent amount of effort with the existing drivers was required.

I repeat what I told you last time, the devs actually active on DRIVERS have no interest in Golden Tee, or the hardware it runs on.  The majority of devs are working on code refactoring, or things that interest them in the MESS side.  I tend to work on 68k based titles, 16/32-bit 2D platforms.  Roberto is running / developing with something like a 800mhz system so sticks to Z80 based 8-bit titles, usually video gamblers because they're the limit of what he can do with his hardware.  Exactly how you're expecting Golden Tee to come out of that I don't know.

[Well Fed Games]

I know it probably sucks but I'm happy to see that Seibu's Panic Road made it in, and that progress is still being made on Seibu encryption for Air Raid and Raiden II/DX.  to Haze and the other Devs!

[ark_ader]

you do realise that in 4 months the only 2 people to have written new WORKING drivers are myself (the Mega Phoenix driver) and Roberto Fresca (various Video Poker games)

Do you realise that that is down to technical competency of the current collection of Mamedev. Other than the famous 5 people I can think of that are technically proficient, and who are  probably involved in normal life, the rest are just code fiddlers.

Back in your day when you was Captain, where most of the grunt work was performed, (to where MAME is today) implementations of drivers was like water from the heavens. It rained innovation. 

Maybe quality control has slipped.  It is obvious talent has moved on to bigger and brighter things, leaving you with some of the inspiring caretakers.  Maybe you should take the captain's chair again and turn the ship around.  You know they are jealous of your leadership skills and creative ability.   You have heard this before. 

[Howard_Casto]

I think it's unbelievably unfair to complain that someone isn't working on what you want someone to work on.  You can of course make a request, but when someone says "no" it's time to let it go.  If you want golden tee implemented pbj, I suggest you crack open some programming books and some schematics of I.T. 32 bit hardware and get to coding. 

Different devs have different preferences of course, but I can honestly understand why nobody with the technical prowess is working on the GT games.  Golf games are the most boring games in video history, yes, even including gambling games.  To some people it's more about figuring out how the hardware works than the end result (the game) but honestly when you are "rewarded" with a boring golf game, a golf game, I might add, that has been ported to every conceivable console and the pc and even plug-n-play tv games... yeah I can see it. 

Also maybe I'm missing something, but Golden Tee Golf is emulated in mame.  Many of it's sequels aren't, but you should really be specific.  If you are referring to the Golden Tee Live series, I'm not sure why you are complaining because those ran on PCs and in mame they would be so slow that it would make them unplayable. 

[Hunk_4TH]

Aren't there FF drivers though in Mame? I know there has to be quite a few racing games like the Crusin series that had FF. I guess I was wrong ha ha.

Force Feedback = a Proprietary Microsoft term for a feature in some DirectX compatible controllers.  There are zero arcade games with force feedback because Microsoft doesn't make arcade cabinets.

I think you completely misunderstood my explanation.   Mame is all about accuracy.  So any outputs on a game are going to be hooked up more or less as they would go to the motor (or motor driver board) on the real machine.  For this to work on a  off the shelf usb ff wheel/joystick, whatever, that data needs to be converted.  So it would be a hack job, and mame doesn't really like hack jobs.  So the unmolested outputs are broadcast to mamehooker or a similar application, the conversion is done there, and then you get the FF.  Plus there is the whole cross-platform deal.  FF devices tend to have a lot better driver support in windows than they do Linux/macos for obvious reasons.

C'mon man you should know by FF I mean rumble effects any racing game had 

[pbj]

Meh, they've emulated things that were much harder to do and a helluva lot more boring once playable.  That argument is meaningless.

In 2014, it's an obvious gaping hole in the emulation and clearly related to their fear of legal action.  Frankly, I don't blame them, but I also don't go around arguing that what they're doing is legal.

 

[twistedsymphony]

Meh, they've emulated things that were much harder to do and a helluva lot more boring once playable.  That argument is meaningless....

It's not meaningless at all, I can 100% get behind the argument of "I don't want to do it because it's not interesting to me".

I'm personally at the point in my life where my time is my most valuable asset. I work because I need money to survive and live comfortably but in my spare time I spend it doing things that I want to do, things that interest me personally.... I've contributed to projects similar to MAME and I do it because I was interested in the thing I was working on... If it's not something I want to do I'm not going to waste hours upon hours of my life to do it... period.

AS for other games being a "lot more boring" that's totally personal preference. Honestly I can't think of many games that I find LESS entertaining than virtual Golf, apparently the mame devs agree. If you like it that's fine, but clearly you don't like it enough to spend the time to learn how to code and make it work yourself.... so why should somebody else spend their time doing that for you?

Personally, I learned to code because there are things I wanted done that no one else wanted to do... not to serve the needs wants and whims of others.

[pbj]

Thanks for sharing.

 

[ark_ader]

What is wrong with Neo Geo Turf Masters?

It is as good as Golden Tee.

[Haze]

What is wrong with Neo Geo Turf Masters?

It is as good as Golden Tee.

I'd actually say Neo Turf Masters was the only enjoyable golf game I've seen.

That's my issue with Golden Tee as a game, it's dry, slow-paced, humourless, not even really well presented, and IIRC you can't even play all the holes on a single credit regardless of your ability.  The actual game is as dire as practically everything else IT made but somehow gained great success and ended up in practically every bar / pub at one point (despite me never seeing anybody playing it)

Of course that isn't why the 2005 era ones aren't emulated, the hardware just isn't really my street, MIPS + Voodoo, boring, and will likely run rather slowly and thus be annoying to debug etc.

[Howard_Casto]

Yuppies like golf it's as simple as that.  Don't try to over-analyze it... it's why rednecks like nascar I guess. 

The speed factor is a huge deal.  I had to explain in another forum why the Outrun 2 driver in mame was a long ways off from being playable.  They didn't understand that the fact that it runs at around 6% or less on most PCs would make debugging difficult. 

I actually like some of the IT stuff though.  World class bowling and Shuffle Shot are pretty good, but then again you can play a whole game in under 5 minutes and they don't charge you per ball/puck... that probably has something to do with it. 

On the other hand any good will they had towards me was immediately destroyed with those god awful hunting games.  It isn't even the hunting aspect.. I played duck hunt afterall, it's just that like the golf games they are just devoid of any entertainment. 

[Paul Olson]

Yuppies like golf it's as simple as that.  Don't try to over-analyze it... it's why rednecks like nascar I guess. 

The speed factor is a huge deal.  I had to explain in another forum why the Outrun 2 driver in mame was a long ways off from being playable.  They didn't understand that the fact that it runs at around 6% or less on most PCs would make debugging difficult. 

I actually like some of the IT stuff though.  World class bowling and Shuffle Shot are pretty good, but then again you can play a whole game in under 5 minutes and they don't charge you per ball/puck... that probably has something to do with it. 

On the other hand any good will they had towards me was immediately destroyed with those god awful hunting games.  It isn't even the hunting aspect.. I played duck hunt afterall, it's just that like the golf games they are just devoid of any entertainment.

I have a Big Buck Safari, and I enjoy it. I am not a hunter, but playing the game is a little like going out for target practice.

[lamprey]

What is wrong with Neo Geo Turf Masters?

It is as good as Golden Tee.

LOL, I just was looking this up, as I have not played it, and came across a $20k version for sale.. WTF?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Neo-Turf-Masters-Neo-Geo-AES-Great-Condition-Fast-Shipping-Us-Version-/271011428096

[Endprodukt]

I wonder if MK4 will be bugfree in the next 10 years. Not a request as most people hate that game... I don't even know why I like it...

[Howard_Casto]

Eh it's not that people hate it.  I think it's more like people just don't prefer it.  It's that weird transition MK title when they were still figuring out how to do 3d.  I don't think a lot of games run on that particular pcb, so that might be why it still has bugs.

[bulbousbeard]

I wonder if MK4 will be bugfree in the next 10 years. Not a request as most people hate that game... I don't even know why I like it...

Doubt it. Aaron Giles is the only reason most of the later Midway 2d games work, and he doesn't really work on emulation improvements anymore.

[Endprodukt]

Eh it's not that people hate it.  I think it's more like people just don't prefer it.  It's that weird transition MK title when they were still figuring out how to do 3d.  I don't think a lot of games run on that particular pcb, so that might be why it still has bugs.

Invasion is the only other game running on Zeus and it's just as buggy. Too bad... actually I was hoping for the last 4 years I think.

[twistedsymphony]

Eh it's not that people hate it.  I think it's more like people just don't prefer it.  It's that weird transition MK title when they were still figuring out how to do 3d.  I don't think a lot of games run on that particular pcb, so that might be why it still has bugs.

I hate it...

...there, I said it 

Honestly though most 2D franchises that tried to make the jump to 3D were GARBAGE on their first try....

Fighting games like MK that fell into this trap were pretty crappy until they realized that they were better off PLAYING like 2D games even though they used 3D graphics.