Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: What are my Options?  (Read 7021 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
What are my Options?
« on: March 25, 2014, 07:22:38 am »
So I recently build a machine with intent to install in an original arcade cabinet with an original 15K monitor.

It's running Windows 8.1 64-bit because I need solid DirectX 11 support on demul and a few windows games.

I'm also using a GeForce GTX 580, because I need the strongest GPU I can afford.

I'm also outputting through a J-PAC (again so I can intergrate with an existing arcade machine)...

Modifying the arcade machine is 100% out of the questions, I'm not changing monitors or re-wiring it or anything like that.

--------

Soft15k doesn't seem to run on newer Windows versions and from what I've read it also doesn't like to work with 80 and 90 series GeForce cards without some sort of adapter.

Installing soft15k I get the display modes to show up in the list but windows wont allow me to select any below 640x480... running quickrez I can set it to 640x480 and it will run at that resolution until I exit out of my first game and then windows take the opportunity to force a higher resolution.


Is it possible to run an Arcade VGA card along side my GeForce using the processing power of the GeForce but the output of the Arcade VGA? I do have an extra PCI-e port.

Do I have any other options software or hardware wise to make this work? Keep in mind I need DX11 support...

copados33

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:March 07, 2025, 08:23:35 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 10:40:23 am »
In don't think you can run both the geforce and AVGA at the same time.

The only solution I can think of is to get an EXtron Emotia scan converter, it takes the VGA signal coming from your Geforce and converts it to 15khz 240p before sending it to the arcade monitor, you only need to set your resolution for windows and mame to 640x480 and you'll get  low ress for all your arcade games with true scanlines.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 02:15:31 pm »
In don't think you can run both the geforce and AVGA at the same time.

The only solution I can think of is to get an EXtron Emotia scan converter, it takes the VGA signal coming from your Geforce and converts it to 15khz 240p before sending it to the arcade monitor, you only need to set your resolution for windows and mame to 640x480 and you'll get  low ress for all your arcade games with true scanlines.

awesome, as long as it doesn't ad any significant lag that sounds like a solid solution, thanks!

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 10:32:05 pm »
I tested my Super Emotia by recording it with high speed video (240fps), and comparing that to a straight connection to the CRT.  The lag added is totally negligible, much less than a frame.

I think you might have some better choices though.  An Emotia is better suited to something unable to output proper 240p, like a PS3 or 360.  With custom modelines from a PC you can do much better.  Very few MAME games run at exactly 320x240p, and they don't run at exactly 60Hz either.  Matching the native refresh rate is just as important as resolution when running MAME on a real CRT. 

First of all, what kind of cabinet is it, and what kind of monitor (model, 15kHz, 31kHz, multi)?  Also, what kind of games are most important to you?  You won't be able to optimize both MAME (mostly 15kHz), and modern Windows games.  You have to go in one direction and accept compromises for the other.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 07:19:43 am »
It's a Wells Gardner u2000 (25" 15K only)

the most important games to me are demul NAOMI and Atomiswave Titles as well as Taito Type X,
nearly all NAOMI titles can be set to run in 15K mode and a good number of TTX games can as well, those TTX game that require a higher resolution I don't mind losing quality.

copados33

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:March 07, 2025, 08:23:35 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 10:39:23 pm »
The Emotia is your best option, if you don't want to mess with your Windows configuration that is, with the Extron the only thing you need to change is the resolution in Mame to anything from 800x480 to 640x480  and you are set.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2014, 07:12:24 am »
I don't mind messing with windows, It just seems that neither windows 8 nor my GTX 580 is fully compatible with soft15k....

I'm also not really using MAME 90% of the gaming on this machine will be Demul and Taito Type X

copados33

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:March 07, 2025, 08:23:35 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2014, 10:16:14 am »

I'm also not really using MAME 90% of the gaming on this machine will be Demul and Taito Type X

For TypeX and DEmul you have a "flicker filter = 0" option on the Emotia so you can play those systems at 480i, or, if you have a tri sync arcade monitor you can use just the VGA pass through connection and set the emulator up to 800x600 for those systems, or use their native resolution, I think Naomi games are mostly 640x480, I don't know about Typex but I think that that board uses 16:9 tft screens on their cabinets.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2014, 10:43:17 am »
For TypeX and DEmul you have a "flicker filter = 0" option on the Emotia so you can play those systems at 480i, or, if you have a tri sync arcade monitor you can use just the VGA pass through connection and set the emulator up to 800x600 for those systems, or use their native resolution, I think Naomi games are mostly 640x480, I don't know about Typex but I think that that board uses 16:9 tft screens on their cabinets.

It's a Wells Gardner u2000 (25" 15K only)

the most important games to me are demul NAOMI and Atomiswave Titles as well as Taito Type X,
nearly all NAOMI titles can be set to run in 15K mode and a good number of TTX games can as well, those TTX game that require a higher resolution I don't mind losing quality.

copados33

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:March 07, 2025, 08:23:35 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2014, 11:32:26 am »
All Right then, you can set the resolution on demul or whichever emulator you want, to 640x480 or 800x600, set the flicker filter to 0 on the Emotia and have your games at 480i 15khz on the arcade monitor :), but a tri-sync monitor capable of 480p is always recommended :blah:.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 12:03:47 pm by copados33 »

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 12:13:52 pm »
All Right then, you can set the resolution on demul or whichever emulator you want, to 640x480 or 800x600, set the flicker filter to 0 on the Emotia and have your games at 480i 15khz on the arcade monitor :), but a tri-sync monitor capable of 480p is always recommended :blah:.

I'm tying to preserve the cabinet since it's all original, I just want the option to plugin in this PC during parties so guests have the option to play some different games on it. As I said in the first post, modifying the machine/changing out the monitor is completely out of the question.

If I had a Tri-Sync what would I need the Emotia for? I have a few other machines with the PC hooked directly up to the Tri-Sync without the need for Soft15K or any external converters.

copados33

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:March 07, 2025, 08:23:35 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 01:42:34 pm »
The purpose of a tri-sync is to have the best of both worlds, you can play all your HD arcade games such as Naomi, Atomiswave, Typex and old CGA games on their native 15khz resolutions.

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2014, 04:17:13 pm »
If you're fine running everything in 15kHz then I would recommend optimize your MAME setup for proper native resolutions. 

It's true that the Emotia is an easy solution to avoid setting up the PC itself for 15kHz output, but the lack of effort in setting things up properly will result in a lack of quality results.  You won't be using the CRT to its full potential.  As I mentioned, most MAME games do not run in exactly 320x240p, nor do they run at exactly 60Hz.  Failing to match the native refresh rate causes issues with game speed, sound sync, and screen tearing, and the workarounds to fix these issues this add lag.

Also,
Soft15kHz is really not the best option anymore. 

First of all, it's silly to use a real CRT and not use GroovyMAME, and that works hand in hand with CRT_Emudriver.  GM can generate resolutions on the fly to keep everything native res (and native refresh, very important), saving you a lot of work; and it has a lot of other important features for native res even if you don't use the auto-generation. 

Even if not using GM, tweaking your resolutions in Soft15kHz requires editing the text modelines by hand (super tedious), or using Powerstrip.  Powerstrip was not really designed for this application, it's very cumbersome, and does not even fit on the screen in lower resolutions.  CRT_Emudriver includes ArcadeOSD, which was purposely designed for this, is just as powerful if not more so, more flexible, and much easier to use.

Making the change only takes a couple of minutes once you have the right graphics card (which can be dirt cheap).  I started with Soft15kHz, and resisted making the change because I had some GeForce cards on hand (only compatible with Soft15kHz).  When I finally switched over to CRT_Emudriver, I was really kicking myself for not doing it sooner.

Also, an ArcadeVGA is overpriced and not as flexible as CRT_Emudriver with a compatible card.

If you don't mind the setup, you should be able to get your MAME games running native resolution and your other games running in 480i without the need for any external hardware except the J-Pac.  The conflict in your case is your current OS and graphics card. 

I don't know of any way to get 15kHz out of Windows 8.  CRT_Emudriver will be adding full support for Windows 7 soon.  Is there any way you can get the games you need working with that?  The fastest compatible card is a Radeon HD4890, but I don't know if that will be adequate for some of your newer games.  If not, you can ask Calamity (creator of CRT_Emudriver/GroovyMAME) about the possibility of a dual graphics card setup, but if you can't get 480i out of your GTX 580 it won't work.

If you can't get those issues sorted out, the Emotia would be the necessary compromise.  You would just output 640x480p@60Hz from the computer, and use the Emotia to select 240p or 480i as copados33 suggested.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2014, 04:33:20 pm »
I don't know of any way to get 15kHz out of Windows 8.  CRT_Emudriver will be adding full support for Windows 7 soon.  Is there any way you can get the games you need working with that?  The fastest compatible card is a Radeon HD4890, but I don't know if that will be adequate for some of your newer games.  If not, you can ask Calamity (creator of CRT_Emudriver/GroovyMAME) about the possibility of a dual graphics card setup, but if you can't get 480i out of your GTX 580 it won't work.

If you can't get those issues sorted out, the Emotia would be the necessary compromise.  You would just output 640x480p@60Hz from the computer, and use the Emotia to select 240p or 480i as copados33 suggested.

TTX games have compatibility issues with ATi cards... they were designed for nVidia hardware not to mention I just dropped $150 on this card SPECIFICALLY to play those games...

Similarly Demul and other emulators I'm running require solid Direct X 11 support to run properly... DX11 isn't fully supported under Windows 7, hence why I'm running Windows 8. I COULD run older versions of these emulators that use DX10 instead however having tested that a lot of the games become either extremely buggy or down-right unplayable.

I could downgrade to Win 7 and swap to an ATi card but then my problems would change from not having 15k support to not being able to play the games I specifically built my machine to play.

copados33

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:March 07, 2025, 08:23:35 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2014, 06:38:18 pm »
It's true that the Emotia is an easy solution to avoid setting up the PC itself for 15kHz output, but the lack of effort in setting things up properly will result in a lack of quality results.  You won't be using the CRT to its full potential.  As I mentioned, most MAME games do not run in exactly 320x240p, nor do they run at exactly 60Hz. 

It doesn't matter if some games don't run at "240p" ( we should be calling this modes "non interlaced" instead of progressive..) you can feed the Emotia with any other resolution under 800x600, take CPS1 or Irem M72 hardware, for 384x224 cps1 or 384 x 256 M72 you can set the emulator at 768x448 or 768x512 (I don't remember the exact resolutions that I used back then) and the Emotia splits the resolution in half before sending it to the monitor, so, is not that the Emotia is "240 non interlaced" dependant.

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2014, 07:54:28 pm »
Copados, we can call it 240p it because the output of an Emotia set to NTSC and non-interlace is exactly that.

The Emotia does not work as you describe.  It outputs in the NTSC or PAL standard, depending which you select, meaning 525 total lines per frame at 60Hz or 625 at 50Hz.  In terms of active lines, this is 480 lines interlaced or 240 lines progressive in NTSC, or 576 lines interlaced or 288 lines progressive in PAL.  The only options are 480i@60Hz, 240p@60Hz, 576i@50Hz, or 288p@50Hz.

I'm referring to the Extron Emotia, Emotia Plus, Super Emotia, and Super Emotia GX, which were the only models to offer the non-interlace setting.  You may be thinking of another model, maybe an Emotia Xtreme, but that isn't useful for most gaming applications, lacking the non-interlaced output.

TTX games have compatibility issues with ATi cards... they were designed for nVidia hardware not to mention I just dropped $150 on this card SPECIFICALLY to play those games...

Yes, that's why I mentioned a dual graphics card setup. 

I realize the prospects aren't optimal, but this is why I said in my first post that you won't be able to optimize both MAME and modern Windows games.  You have to go in one direction and accept compromises for the other.  If the modern games are most important to you and you can't do without Windows 8, then use an Emotia.

To be honest though, the thing that perplexes me is why you are focused on modern games on a 15kHz arcade cabinet.  Why not make a proper MAME machine with CRT_Emudriver for the cabinet and play your modern games on a low-lag LCD?  It would be much better suited for them.  You could build/buy some portable arcade sticks for use with a computer monitor or TV, or even build/buy another cab based around an LCD. 

I realize many people don't have the time/space/money/whatever for multiple setups like that.  What I'm driving at though is that this stuff is complex, and if you go for an all-in-one solution there will have to be some compromises somewhere.

One thing that may simplify things a little is not using Demul.  A real Dreamcast is pretty cheap, they can play burned games (since I'm guessing you already have isos), and you would save yourself the input lag of the emulation.  It is pretty simple to wire to a Jamma connector using an RGB SCART cable and your choice of controller encoders.  Again, maybe not for you, but just a suggestion.




copados33

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 49
  • Last login:March 07, 2025, 08:23:35 pm
  • I want to build my own arcade controls!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2014, 08:58:00 pm »
I must have had a different model of Emotia then, because I could send 640x480 up to 800x600 resolutions, I remember that I added some modelines exclusvely for Irem M72 games, like 848x512 to get the 384x256 60hz on R-Type, but I can be wrong since the last time I used this type of setup was in 2003-2004.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2014, 09:35:18 am »
To be honest though, the thing that perplexes me is why you are focused on modern games on a 15kHz arcade cabinet.  Why not make a proper MAME machine with CRT_Emudriver for the cabinet and play your modern games on a low-lag LCD?  It would be much better suited for them.  You could build/buy some portable arcade sticks for use with a computer monitor or TV, or even build/buy another cab based around an LCD. 

I realize many people don't have the time/space/money/whatever for multiple setups like that.  What I'm driving at though is that this stuff is complex, and if you go for an all-in-one solution there will have to be some compromises somewhere.

One thing that may simplify things a little is not using Demul.  A real Dreamcast is pretty cheap, they can play burned games (since I'm guessing you already have isos), and you would save yourself the input lag of the emulation.  It is pretty simple to wire to a Jamma connector using an RGB SCART cable and your choice of controller encoders.  Again, maybe not for you, but just a suggestion.

I have 8 machines already, I don't have room for any more. One of those machines is ALREADY dedicated to classic MAME games and it running Windows XP with Soft 15K to a real arcade monitor without any problems. That's why I don't care about using MAME on this machine, I don't know why you keep thinking I want to play classic MAME, not once in this thread have I mentioned wanting to to that, I don't need to because I already have a machine running just MAME...

One of my other machines is a dedicated original Killer Instinct 2 I put a lot of time and money into fully restoring it because it's my favorite arcade game, I don't want to modify the machine at all I just want to be able to plug in a PC like swapping a JAMMA board to play additional fighting games from NAOMI, Atomiswave, and Taito Type X... I also have 1 Game running on Dolphin (Tatsunoko vs Capcom)

I'm not playing Any Dreamcast games, I'm using demul for NAOMI/NAOMI 2 and Atomiswave... I have 0 games on this setup from Dreamcast or any other console.

I don't know why that's so confusing...

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2014, 10:48:51 am »
I have 8 machines already, I don't have room for any more. One of those machines is ALREADY dedicated to classic MAME games and it running Windows XP with Soft 15K to a real arcade monitor without any problems.
...
I'm not playing Any Dreamcast games, I'm using demul for NAOMI/NAOMI 2 and Atomiswave... I have 0 games on this setup from Dreamcast or any other console.

This is the first in this thread you've mentioned either of these things.  Are you angry at me because I was supposed to have already known this somehow?

All I was doing was pointing out all of the options.  One reason I suggested using the cab for MAME is because that is what a 15kHz monitor is best suited for, not games designed for 31kHz and up (and because you had not mentioned that you already have a MAME cab). 

As for the Dreamcast, it has ports of almost all the decent NAOMI games.  They are great ports because the hardware is almost exactly the same, and they may play tighter than they would with emulation lag.  It was just a suggestion, I even literally said "Again, maybe not for you, but just a suggestion."

I'm not sure why you're offended at the mere mention of other options.  Your thread is titled, "what are my options?"  BTW, none of the things I mentioned involve modding the cabinet, they could all be done as swappable JAMMA setups.  Anyhow, as I've stated several times, if the most important thing for you is to play those specific games in Windows 8 with your current card on your 15kHz monitor, get an Emotia.

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2014, 12:05:16 pm »
This is the first in this thread you've mentioned either of these things.  Are you angry at me because I was supposed to have already known this somehow?

...the most important games to me are demul NAOMI and Atomiswave Titles as well as Taito Type X...

Yes, you should have already known that I my primary reason was to play NAOMI because I mentioned that it was among my primary goals of this cabinet in the 3rd post.

I also fail to see why I should be expected to go out of my way to list out all of the things I'm NOT trying to do (ie: MAME, Dreamcast, etc.). Similarly I don't see how other machines that I own are in any way relevant to my initial question.

All I was doing was pointing out all of the options. ...

I'm not sure why you're offended at the mere mention of other options.  Your thread is titled, "what are my options?"  BTW, none of the things I mentioned involve modding the cabinet, they could all be done as swappable JAMMA setups.  Anyhow, as I've stated several times, if the most important thing for you is to play those specific games in Windows 8 with your current card on your 15kHz monitor, get an Emotia.

What you're suggesting isn't "other options" I asked for help with a very specific situation, I'm frustrated because rather than offering a legitimate solutions to the problem you've essentially told me that my project goals are wrong and that my solution to getting my machine running is to essentially throw it away and build a different machine that does things that I don't want it to do. That's like me asking how to fix my child's broken arm and your solution is to execute them and adopt a new child. That's not a real solution, you don't solve problems my changing the parameters of the problem.

I made it clear in my first post the project parameters are this:
-Windows 8
-GeForce GTX580
-15K Monitor

how do I make those things work together?

If the only solution is an Emotia, then so-be-it... but don't go on about how the games I want to play are somehow the wrong games and then act surprised that I take it personally.

Bottom line... NAOMI, AtomisWave and TTX hardware originally supported 15K monitors.. I know, I own or have owned the actual hardware for all three and I've used all three on a 15K monitor... why is it somehow wrong to want to emulate those games and play on a 15K monitor through emulation?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 12:15:36 pm by twistedsymphony »

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2014, 01:58:53 pm »
Yes, you should have already known that I my primary reason was to play NAOMI because I mentioned that it was among my primary goals of this cabinet in the 3rd post.

What you said in your third post was that you don't mind running these things in 15kHz.  I thought if you're in 15kHz anyway, there might be a way to add MAME without detracting from those games, i.e. dual-graphics card setup, asking if there was a way to keep those games working without using Windows 8, etc.  Again, this is because you did not mention you already had a separate MAME cabinet.

you've essentially told me that my project goals are wrong and that my solution to getting my machine running is to essentially throw it away and build a different machine that does things that I don't want it to do.

At no point did I say that your goals were wrong.  I simply said that the results would not be optimal, it would be a compromise, which is a fact.

NAOMI, Atomiswave, etc., are designed for a 31kHz CRT, and would look better on one, rather than a 15kHz CRT which will be blurrier due to the dot pitch and have interlace flicker in 480i.  This is a fact.  (My apologies for previously making the blanket statement of an LCD for your "modern" games.  I think I was thinking of the newer Taito X/X2 stuff, which would benefit from 720p support.)

If the Dreamcast ports of NAOMI have less input lag than emulating on a computer, they will play better.  This is a fact.  I thought that might interest you, as you mentioned your concern of lag in your second post.

None of this is meant to be insulting, it's just meant to put all of the information on the table, so that you can take it all into account when making a decision.  Would you prefer that I lied and told you that everything is already perfect?  That there's nothing else to consider, and nothing you would ever be missing out on?

I have to accept compromises in my own design.  I'm building a cab around a 15kHz CRT, primarily to play old games meant for ~240p.  I'll also be playing some games on it designed for 480p and up.  I accepted the compromise of 480i for these games, but there are other options that I'm glad to know about.  In the future I could spend the money on a tri-sync, or build another cabinet with a 31kHz CRT or an LCD.  I probably won't, but I'm still glad to have the information.

That's like me asking how to fix my child's broken arm and your solution is to execute them and adopt a new child.

I think this is the whole problem.  No one should be so attached to their current plan that they are blinded to other options.  It's not your child. 

I think you might be in a bit of a hostile mindset in which you're unwilling to be open-minded.  Just consider your options.  My current plans for my cabinet have little resemblance to my initial idea and I'm damn glad of it.  I've made enormous improvements to it by considering new information as I learned of it.  If, in the end, you still prefer your initial plan due to your own personal circumstances, there is nothing wrong with that, but won't hurt you to have considered other options.

I made it clear in my first post the project parameters are this:
-Windows 8
-GeForce GTX580
-15K Monitor

how do I make those things work together?

Here is why I really don't understand the hostility.  The options mentioned already included, very early on, one that works with these exact parameters.  Use an Emotia.  I covered your concern about lag as well.  It's as if you're angry at being presented with more than one option.

If you need a more detailed explanation, I'm happy to oblige:

-Find an Emotia on eBay, or search the trading sections of gaming forums.  Most models will work for 480i output, but a Super Emotia or Emotia GX will be best for maximum compatibility with gaming applications.
-Connect your graphics card to the Emotia via VGA.  One of the DVI ports on your GTX 580 should work with a DVI to VGA adapter.  You might want to confirm this first.
-Set your computer to output 640x480p@60Hz, and set the Emotia to NTSC and Interlace or Anti-Flicker (or non-interlace when you need 240p).
-Connect the video output of the Emotia to the J-PAC using a BNC to VGA adapter.  If the J-Pac has any problem accepting composite sync on the H-sync pin I can tell you of a fix.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 03:38:29 pm by rCadeGaming »

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2014, 03:53:23 pm »
No one should be so attached to their current plan that they are blinded to other options.  It's not your child. 

I think you might be in a bit of a hostile mindset in which you're unwilling to be open-minded.  Just consider your options.  My current plans for my cabinet have little resemblance to my initial idea and I'm damn glad of it.  I've made enormous improvements to it by considering new information as I learned of it.  If, in the end, you still prefer your initial plan due to your own personal circumstances, there is nothing wrong with that, but won't hurt you to have considered other options.

That's just it... this isn't a PLAN this is a 99% complete project, I spent weeks building this box and tweaking it to get NAOMI/NAOMI 2 and Atomiswave running flawlessly, get the front end setup exactly how I want it and everything running perfectly. For all intents and purposes this is "my baby".

Now all I have left to do is plug this machine into my already 100% cabinet but I'm running into the issue of the monitor compatibility so I'm here

I went with Windows 8 and a GTX580 on the advice of others on this forum for the best compatibility and smoothest emulation of NAOMI, and it worked Windows 8 has better DX11 support than Win 7and  the GTX580 is a beast that's able to run even the most demanding NAOMI titles as smoothly as the original hardware... I just have the last step of getting the output working.

I apologize if I came off as hostile but I felt like I was explaining the same things over and over again. I thought it was clear from my first post that I was dealing with an already complete machine and that I wasn't interested in changing the machine or the monitor at this point. I apologize if that wasn't clear from the onset.

Like I said, if the Emotia is my only option given the parameters than that's fine, I'll live with that, I just wanted to know if there were other options I was unaware of given my 3 constraints: win 8, GTX580, and a 15K monitor.

rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2014, 04:59:16 pm »
I guess it was just a misunderstanding on both sides.   :cheers:

Anyhow, trying to think of another way to fit those exact requirements...  Of course it would be best to get 15kHz output directly from the computer, but I don't know if there's any way to do it with that card or in Windows 8.  You could ask Calamity.  Let him know that all you need is 480i, not a whole range of custom modes.

Aside from that, the only solution we're left with (as far as I know) is a downscaler.  An Emotia Jr. or Extron VSC (make sure it's one with RGB out) could also work for you, but lack 240p, just be sure you'd never need it.  Those are pretty cheap, but if you watch eBay for a while you can sometimes get a Super Emotia cheap as well, maybe $40-50.

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

twistedsymphony

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 584
  • Last login:February 03, 2024, 11:13:51 pm
  • Play stupid games... win stupid prizes.
    • solid-orange.com
    • CollectorsEdition.org
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2014, 04:01:45 pm »
I guess it was just a misunderstanding on both sides.   :cheers:

Anyhow, trying to think of another way to fit those exact requirements...  Of course it would be best to get 15kHz output directly from the computer, but I don't know if there's any way to do it with that card or in Windows 8.  You could ask Calamity.  Let him know that all you need is 480i, not a whole range of custom modes.

Aside from that, the only solution we're left with (as far as I know) is a downscaler.  An Emotia Jr. or Extron VSC (make sure it's one with RGB out) could also work for you, but lack 240p, just be sure you'd never need it.  Those are pretty cheap, but if you watch eBay for a while you can sometimes get a Super Emotia cheap as well, maybe $40-50.

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/
thanks for the link, it looks like there are some decent alternatives to the Emotia... I've been checking eBay regularly but haven't come across any yet.


rCadeGaming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:April 13, 2025, 12:14:40 pm
  • Just call me Rob!
Re: What are my Options?
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2014, 06:21:27 pm »
Just take that the info in that link is centered around 240p applications, many of the other downscalers discussed there can't output 480i.

Also, in the last section when he says "Emotias or the VSC approach are good for 240p output only," he is referring to between 240p or 384p.  He doesn't mean the Emotia or VSC aren't good for 480i output, he just means they can't do 384p.