LCD & Plasma today.

[BAMBOO]

When I was really big into this whole BYOAC.com thing back in 2005, the flat screen LCD and Plasma tv's were expensive and I don't think really supported HDMI yet and we had to go with the old VGA tube monitors.  I hate messing with tube monitors with a passion.  I think my last arcade I built back in 2007 was the last straw for me for nearly 6 years.      I went thru Hell with two brand new Wells-Gardner monitors within a year with that arcade.  But I got to say, with LCD/Plasma tv's a dime a dozen complete with all the video input options, building an arcade now a days is as easy as pie. 

I cant stress how the flat screens have really helped our community.  If yours breaks, a few screws, a $100 later and you are set with a new monitor.  And I for one love the display quality with flat screens over the old tube monitors in every way. 

I'm so excited to get back into this stuff.

[dcninja]

troll or legit. not sure.

[yotsuya]

It's his opinion, but it's legit. Some prefer LCDs, some CRTs. I don't think anyone would argue that using an LCD isn't EASIER when building a MAME cab, but some prefer authenticity over ease. Doesn't make anyone wrong. 

[dcninja]

i'd use an lcd but to fit an lcd that will give me teh same 4:3 size as my 27" wouldn't be possible. so sad. i dunno what i'll do if my crt dies.

[BAMBOO]

troll or legit. not sure.

Troll?  I think not slick.  Don't let the thread post count fool you.  I've been here for a long time.

[dgame]

i'd use an lcd but to fit an lcd that will give me teh same 4:3 size as my 27" wouldn't be possible. so sad. i dunno what i'll do if my crt dies.

The maker of an arcade capable 27/29" 4:3 LCD would be essentially printing money. I don't ever want to give up my CRT, but if that day ever comes I would at least like the LCD to fit properly.

[BAMBOO]

i'd use an lcd but to fit an lcd that will give me teh same 4:3 size as my 27" wouldn't be possible. so sad. i dunno what i'll do if my crt dies.

The maker of an arcade capable 27/29" 4:3 LCD would be essentially printing money. I don't ever want to give up my CRT, but if that day ever comes I would at least like the LCD to fit properly.

The owner of Pixel Nation in Bluefield, Va has two 25" 4:3 flatscreen monitors in his arcades.  His friend obtained them from a local bank after they upgraded their security system.  I do not know the manufacturer or brand of these flat screens but apparently they are 4:3 to allow up to 1 dozen security cameras to be displayed at once per monitor.  I wish I could get my hands on those or more like them.

[dcninja]

im in martinsburg, wv near winchester, va ... dunno how far that is not that I have the money... but yea... someone needs to step up and make 4:3 LCD for the arcade scene... people would buy them up for sure. I wonder when this will happen.

[BAMBOO]

Actually, yesterday I sent 3 emails out, one each to Wells-Gardner, Ceronix and ViewSonic encouraging them to consider making us monitors.  I told them I could get a petition going as to how many monitors we would buy if they made a short production run.  Nothing back from any of them yet.  Maybe if we do a petition and send it to them, they might consider it?

[the720k]

Not sure about 25", but WG does sell an open frame 26" 4:3 LCD.  Very steep, though.  ~$500.  I doubt the small community here would be able to justify the cost of having them engineer/manufacture a whole new line of 25" LCDs, especially in a short run, but even if it did happen, I think we would be looking at similar pricing, as it would not be cheap for them to do so.  The monitor manufacturers are in the business of making money, and you can be sure that they have already done their market research on whether to make large 4:3 monitors.  Most manufacturers do not, and the ones that do have priced them high to recoup their R/D costs.  The arcade market is a drop in the bucket next to the general consumer/business consumer market, unfortunately, and the prices will reflect that.  Remember how expensive even 14" LCDs used to be?  The prices shot waaaay down quickly within a few years because of the consumer market's demand.  If only demand had been there for 4:3 all along, but unfortunately, the "cinema" style displays caught on instead.  Sucks, but that's unfortunately the way it works.

[Le Chuck]

troll or legit. not sure.

Troll?  I think not slick.  Don't let the thread post count fool you.  I've been here for a long time.

Some of our most notable trolls have or had stupid high post counts. Just sayin'

[BAMBOO]

Not sure about 25", but WG does sell an open frame 26" 4:3 LCD.  Very steep, though.  ~$500.  I doubt the small community here would be able to justify the cost of having them engineer/manufacture a whole new line of 25" LCDs, especially in a short run, but even if it did happen, I think we would be looking at similar pricing, as it would not be cheap for them to do so.  The monitor manufacturers are in the business of making money, and you can be sure that they have already done their market research on whether to make large 4:3 monitors.  Most manufacturers do not, and the ones that do have priced them high to recoup their R/D costs.  The arcade market is a drop in the bucket next to the general consumer/business consumer market, unfortunately, and the prices will reflect that.  Remember how expensive even 14" LCDs used to be?  The prices shot waaaay down quickly within a few years because of the consumer market's demand.  If only demand had been there for 4:3 all along, but unfortunately, the "cinema" style displays caught on instead.  Sucks, but that's unfortunately the way it works.

I couldnt find those WG monitors youre speaking of.  Got a link or something?

[BAMBOO]

http://www.tru-vumonitors.com/home.html

These guys can custom make an LCD monitor, 4:3, any resolution, any size, open frame, all audio/video inputs/outputs, Power: 12 VDC, 24 VDC, v90-240 VAC, screen treatments, the works.  I'm sure its expensive and I'm waiting on a quote from them right now.

Here is a copy of their custom request form: http://www.tru-vumonitors.com/images/LCD_Monitor_Configurator.doc

LCD MONITOR CONFIGURATOR


1.    This is for a:                 New Project                    Replacement (For Model # _________)

2.    Projected Volume:    Year 1:  ___________      Year 2:  ___________

3.    Current Monitor(s) Used:           ___________________________________________

4.    Industry:

                   Manufacturing                 Measuring/Gauging                 Healthcare                 Law/Military

                   Kiosk/Promotion/POS                    Broadcast/A/V                Other ____________________
 
5.    Type of Enclosure:

                   Standard Housing                       Open Frame                       Rack Mount                      

                   Portable/Hand-Held                     Waterproof                          Panel Mount                   

6.   Ambient Light:           Indoor            In Vehicle             Outdoor/Daylight             Direct Sunlight

7.   What will be displayed:             Streaming Video             Text              Graphics    ____ Photos

8.    Screen Size (Diagonal Measurement):  ________”

9.    Aspect Ratio:                     4:3                          16:9              _______ 5:4            ______ 16:10

10.  Resolution:

                  320 x 240 (QVGA                   640 x 480 (VGA)                         800 x 600 (SVGA)

                  1024 x 768 (XGA)                 1366 x 768 (WXGA)                     1280 x 1024 (SXGA)

                  1600 x 1200 (UXGA)             1920 x 1080 (FULL HD)                Other  (__________)
                       
11.    Brightness:                                nits                       12.  Contrast Ratio:                        :1
               
13.  Video Inputs:

                    VGA                       S-Video/Y-C                                     NTSC            
 
                    DVI                         Composite (BNC/RCA)                   PAL               

                    HDMI                      BNC Loop-Thru                        Other (__________)                                                          
14.  Type of Screen Treatments:

                  Anti-Reflective Glass                Anti-Glare Glass             Optically Bonded/Daylight Readable
                                         
15.  Power:               12 VDC                     24 VDC                     90-240 VAC

16.   Are speakers required?   _______________       17.  Remote Control?  __________________
                           
18.   Type of Mount:               Rear VESA                                 Wall Mount

                                               Table Top Stand                          Ceiling Mount

19.   Do you require Touch Screen capability?                      Yes                    No

         18A.  Touch Screen Type:

                               Resistive (gloved hand, stylus, etc.)               Capacitive (Exposed Finger Only)

                               IR                                   SAW                                   Projected Capacitive
 
         18B.  Preferred Interface:                USB                        RS-232                       USB & RS-232                                      


20.    Special Approvals Required:

                      UL                       CE                     UL-60601-1 (Medical)                    Other (________)

21.   Other Requirements/Comments:  __________________________________________________

                  __________________________________________________

                  __________________________________________________

22.   Target Price:        $_____________________  23.    Do you need/use any other type of monitors?  _______________________________________                   _______________________________________________________________________________                                 
23.   Contact Information:

        Name:   _______________________________________________________________   

        Company:   ____________________________________________________________

        City/State:   ____________________________________________________________

        Phone:   _____________________   E-Mail:  __________________________________

                           Please e-mail completed form to:   Sales@TRU-VuMonitors.com

[the720k]

I couldnt find those WG monitors youre speaking of.  Got a link or something?
[/quote]

Crap, sorry about that.  I was way off-base.  Could have sworn I saw one a while back, but I was only skimming, so maybe I mistook a 16:9 for a 4:3 whilst not paying much attention.  If not WG, maybe it was Happ.  I know my eyes couldn't have deceived me that much - I am almost certain I saw one when looking for a drop-in for a project, and I do remember the price making be click "back."

If I find a solid link, I'll post it ASAP.

[BAMBOO]

Well crappers, the largest monitor they make is 20".  They said there are no manufactures that currently make "True" 4:3 over 20".

What the heck man?

[the720k]

I foresee a lot of people making custom bezels and/or doing custom cabinetry work when CRTs become impossible to source in the not-so-distant future unless something changes in the LCD market.  Damn shame, because due to the wide screens, cab owners will have no choice but to settle for an overall smaller picture if they don't want to stretch the image to the full 16:9. 

Hopefully something happens before then, but I'm not holding my breath.

[pbj]

16:10 monitors are pretty close.

 

[EssexMame]

I'd love to use a 4:3 arcade monitor but it was hard enough to find a 4:3 LCD here in the UK. I got an  native res 1600x1200 21" HP off Ebay. The advantages of making a slimline cabinet and having half-a-chance of finding a replacement slightly more easily when it should break helped the decision. Scanlines through HLSL or other means also helped soften the realism blow. Ultimately, it is (for me - we all have slightly different goals) reliving some memories playing the games and I hope to do that as best I can but also in the simplest way I can. I also figure with a more slimline cabinet I have more chance of being allowed to build another one :-)

[cmoses]

LCD's are not perfect but can get a very respectable picture with many of the technologies out there like HLSL. Plus size and weight are huge factors especially once you go bigger than 19" on a CRT.


Sent from my iPad Mini using Tapatalk HD

[lilshawn]

use caution if you choose to go plasma, they do suffer from burn-in much the same as CRT do.

LCD get a kind of burn-in, but it goes away after a bit....more like pixels that just sort of retain a partially turned on phase.

[pbj]

Plasmas haven't had burn in for 10+ years.  Stop repeating nonsense.

They are heavy and suck electricity, though. 

[lilshawn]

AHEM. I have a half dozen golden tee live cabinets with 42" Samsung plasma TV's manufactured between 2008 and 2013. They ALL have burn-in where the "coin in" text is and where tournament/hole-in-win and live logos are. It's still a problem.

It's not as rediculous as it was 10 years ago where BBD's would get burned on your screen if you paused your "Debbie does BBD" video while you made popcorn.

[MonMotha]

Plasmas absolutely still suffer from burn in.  They're as bad or worse than late-model CRTs in that respect.  They've gotten MUCH better than they used to be, due to both panel construction techniques as well as firmware/scaler tricks like pixel orbiters, but any monitor application with static graphics on them (say "INSERT COIN") WILL get roasted in.  In short to medium term, modern plasmas tend to just have "retention" issues that can be "scrubbed" with appropriate neutral images/motion.  They do offer the advantage of the most CRT-like picture, mostly owing to the fact that they use a similar phosphor technology just with a totally different excitation method.

But heck, LCDs can get "burned" too.  I've actually seen the front polarizer get discolored from the UV coming off the backlight in a manner that's dependent on the content being displayed (this may be less of an issue with LED backlights, though those still emit UV).  Poor drive waveforms, which are often used to improve "response time" on cheap panels, can also, over time, damage the crystal structures themselves.  Both of these take much longer than burning a CRT or plasma, and the effect isn't usually quite as noticeable.

OLEDs, while otherwise pretty much the holy grail of display technology, also suffer burn-in like effects, at least for the time being.  The blue emitters are especially susceptible.