[SOLVED] New Makvision Trimode 27/29 - Blurry Edges & Primary Display Woes

[Falk3r]

MONITOR: MakVision M31 Series CGA/EGA/VGA (Trimode) Monitor M3129DF-TS 29" High Resolution Monitor on an ArcadeVGA 3000, Windows 7 Ultimate.

Issue #1: The center (horizontally) is perfectly clear, beautiful top to bottom. But the right and left 1/3rds of the screen get blurry... it's almost like the spaces between the pixels grows into thin black vertical lines that obscure the image.

Issue #2: When the MakVision is plugged into the VGA port of the ArcadeVGA 3000 and my desktop monitor is plugged into the DVI port, things seem to work well. The MakVision is the primary display running 640x480, but when I unplug the DVI (desktop monitor), the MakVision refreshes into a mess. (I'll upload some photos of the screen shortly).

I stabilized the Horiztonal and Vertical Holds, but the image still seems... really mixed up.


For some additional background information, I'm new to the hobby... my first cab is nearly built and I'm sitting down to iron out the control panel wiring, MAME/HyperSpin software setup, and other misc hardware issues. Hopefully my problems are newbian and easily fixed.

Thanks for you attention!


Same-Day-Edit: After additional searching, it appears that I need a VGA-to-DVI adapter to make this monitor play nice with the ArcadeVGA 3000. One is now on order and due to arrive in 3 days.

I have also heard the blurry screen edge problem described as lower DPI, or color-separating... and just part of the monitor. What a bummer, but it sounds like it is less frustrating when NOT reading BYOAC forums on it.

Photo of DVI & CGA plugged in:


Photo after unplugging DVI:

[Rigby]

The blue 15-pin "VGA" port on the ArcadeVGA is not a VGA port but a CGA port, meant to drive 15kHz arcade monitors, if wired up properly.  It is not a VGA port that is meant to be connected to a VGA monitor.

The Makvision monitor is, as you said, a CGA and VGA monitor, and can be driven, unmodified from a proper VGA port, OR(!) the ArcadeVGA CGA port.

The DVI port on an ArcadeVGA is an actual DVI port, used to drive normal everyday PC monitors.  Using this to drive your arcade monitor will drive it in VGA mode, which is what would happen if you did not have an ArcadeVGA card to begin with.

If you want the monitor to look like a 15kHz arcade monitor via the DVI port, you will probably want to have your emulator(s) include some sort of scanline emulation.  Without this, the pixels on, say, Pacman, will look very square and non-arcade like.

Tweak it out until you're happy with it and show us a picture.

[Falk3r]

Hmm... so, why does Windows display through the CGA port fine until I disconnect the DVI display?

Help me out here... I do want the monitor to look like a 15kHz arcade monitor (hence the tri-mode and AVGA3k), but Windows freaks out when the CGA is the only display plugged in. It seems like other owners have just shrugged and plugged the monitor in via the DVI (and lost the 15kHz feel).

[Dawgz Rule]

Plugging it into the DVI does seem like a waste of an expensive monitor.  Have you tried reaching out to Andy at Ultimarc?   

[Rigby]

Hmm... so, why does Windows display through the CGA port fine until I disconnect the DVI display?

Not sure, but I suspect windows.  I ran the same setup years ago on an XP machine and it worked fine, it was a pure CGA monitor, though.  Perhaps Windows is detecting a VGA monitor and trying to shove 1024*768 when it is the lone monitor?  I honestly don't know.

Help me out here... I do want the monitor to look like a 15kHz arcade monitor (hence the tri-mode and AVGA3k), but Windows freaks out when the CGA is the only display plugged in. It seems like other owners have just shrugged and plugged the monitor in via the DVI (and lost the 15kHz feel).

I suspect an OS thing here or a driver, but I don't know enough to assert that.  Try with a live Linux USB key or something and see if you get better results.  GroovyArcade live CD should help a great deal.  Hook up only the blue VGA port, to the CGA port on the monitor if it has one, making a special cable if you have to, and try that.

I'm pretty sure it's either the ArcadeVGA itself thinking it should swap modes, or it's Windows telling the ArcadeVGA to use a mode it shouldn't use.

Andy from Ultimarc will have an opinion and probably some things to try out.  He posts here once in a while.

[Falk3r]

Thanks, guys. I do have an email out to Andy. I will report back with what he says while I explore alternate OS/driver options.

[Falk3r]

Andy just sent me the following:

Another user reported a similar problem so I am looking into it. Its possible that it is a driver issue. I am working on new drivers. This might take a couple of days.

I'm hoping the fix is as simple as updating a driver. I'll provide another update as things develop.


Also, I linked to the photos of the display problem above. Does that look similar to issues seen by anyone else?

[Rigby]

does the monitor blank out and look like it's adjusting when you unplug the DVI cable, before you see what you took a picture of, or does it immediately start throwing itself sideways like that?

[Dawgz Rule]

Although I haven't seen that  particular issue, I have had some issues with one or both displays not working when I was doing the initial config.  I seem to recall doing a complete driver dump and reload to solve the problem so I think Andy is on track here.    The blurrier edges is not uncommon for larger monitors but I think you already mentioned that one.

[Falk3r]

does the monitor blank out and look like it's adjusting when you unplug the DVI cable, before you see what you took a picture of, or does it immediately start throwing itself sideways like that?

Yes, the monitor goes black and gives a degauss twang before refreshing into the shown, screwy state.

I seem to recall doing a complete driver dump and reload to solve the problem so I think Andy is on track here.

On the off-chance all my other cabinet work gets done before Andy gets back to me, I plan to start dabbling in driver releases for the AVGA3k.

[Rigby]

does the monitor blank out and look like it's adjusting when you unplug the DVI cable, before you see what you took a picture of, or does it immediately start throwing itself sideways like that?

Yes, the monitor goes black and gives a degauss twang before refreshing into the shown, screwy state.

Ah, so the monitor is resyncing; the AVGA is switching out of the proper mode when you unplug the DVI.  The picture you posted is a textbook example of what an incorrect horizontal sync frequency looks like.

I think it's a driver issue, too.

What happens when you boot the PC with only the arcade monitor connected?

[MonMotha]

Issue #1: The center (horizontally) is perfectly clear, beautiful top to bottom. But the right and left 1/3rds of the screen get blurry... it's almost like the spaces between the pixels grows into thin black vertical lines that obscure the image.

You're not seeing things.  This is how they're built  The tubes in these Makvisions are kinda crummy, but all TV tubes exhibit this to some degree.  The problem is just very apparent when looking at very thin lines commonly seen in computer graphics.  They shouldn't be very objectionable when looking at graphics designed to be shown on this kind of tube like most classic low-res arcade games.

[Falk3r]

What happens when you boot the PC with only the arcade monitor connected?

The Windows boot screen shows up on the MakVision without any distortion, like this:



Then, when the screen goes all blue at the Windows Welcome screen, it gets wonky.

[dgame]

Reboot in Safe Mode [Tap F8 while booting] and set the Display to 640x480 in the Display Control Panel.

[Rigby]

Reboot in Safe Mode [Tap F8 while booting] and set the Display to 640x480 in the Display Control Panel.

el bingo.  not sure you can go that low via control panel, though.

there's a quickres utility somewhere that lets you do this via the notification tray.

this one maybe? http://www.dougknox.com/xp/utils/xp_quickres.htm Nope.  This one: http://www.ultimarc.com/quickres.exe

[dgame]

Good advice about Quickres.

I use the one posed by  SailorSat here:
http://files.arianchen.de/soft15khz/quickres.zip

This one has the press Escape key to cancel the selected resolution change feature. Helps when you select an un-displayable resolution.

[mamenewb100]

I think you'll notice that at resolutions of 640x480 and below the picture is actually pretty sharp and blur-free if you have it set right.

 Yes 800x600 and above it gets much blurrier around the edges. Part of the reason is because nothing is really made quality anymore, but the other reason being it's not designed for resolutions that high. It makes webpages eaiser to view but they won't be pretty.

 I recommend not leaving your Makvision on a white screen for any extended period of time because most have their screen voltage set way too high. This causes dark colors to burn into the screen and can ruin your monitor if it happens to long. Thankfully classic games look beautiful and that's what counts.

[rock145]

I think you'll notice that at resolutions of 640x480 and below the picture is actually pretty sharp and blur-free if you have it set right.

 Yes 800x600 and above it gets much blurrier around the edges. Part of the reason is because nothing is really made quality anymore, but the other reason being it's not designed for resolutions that high. It makes webpages eaiser to view but they won't be pretty.

 I recommend not leaving your Makvision on a white screen for any extended period of time because most have their screen voltage set way too high. This causes dark colors to burn into the screen and can ruin your monitor if it happens to long. Thankfully classic games look beautiful and that's what counts.

I was under the impression that this monitor max resolution was 640x480?
here is the link http://na.suzohapp.com/amusement_products/monitors/49-2715-00
I have a neiman display trisinc with max 640x480
Does this mean that I can set my resolution to 800x600 too on my monitor for some pc games without damaging it.

[mamenewb100]

My Bad. I forget that the tri-sync has a lower res screen. It suprises me that the screen would be blurry with the focus set correctly. It's maybe a tad blurry in the edges at 640x480 on mine but nothing real noticeable.

[Falk3r]

I was under the impression that this monitor max resolution was 640x480?

It is.

Does this mean that I can set my resolution to 800x600...

Nope. Max is max.

[mamenewb100]

As long as your monitor can display a stable high resolution picture, you shouldn't have to worry about damaging it. You can sometimes display higher res than the manufacturer claims. As long as it is within the right frequency range, you are fine.

[rock145]

Thanks for the replies. Before I had my resolution to 800x600 interlace but set it to 640x480 thinking it would be damage. The reason why I ask the question before is because streetfighter x tekken and super streetfighter 4 arcade edition looks way better 800x600 than 640x480 and now the new Mortal kombat 9.

[Falk3r]

Status update based on suggestions: I am able to boot into safe mode ( ), but things are kinda squished, the screen continues down below the bottom of the monitor, and the text is pretty illegible. When I go to set the screen resolution, the minimum choice is 800x600.   

QuickResNT does not appear to be loading in Safe Mode, preventing me from just hopping down there to swap it up.

Is there another way to force 640x480 on Win7?


EDIT: On that F8 boot menu is an option "Enable 640x480 mode", which I selected and Windows was able to boot successfully! MAME crapped out at one refresh state, sending things back up to 800x600 land, but I had set up a QuickRes shortcut on the desktop and I was able to feel my way through the scrambled video to re-select 640x480.

For the super-short term, this works. Works enough for me to test everything else out -- but I won't be able to head to the boot menu and select that option every time I boot the system, I'd like it to automagically boot up and start HyperSpin... you know, once I have that set up.

[MonMotha]

=
 I recommend not leaving your Makvision on a white screen for any extended period of time because most have their screen voltage set way too high. This causes dark colors to burn into the screen and can ruin your monitor if it happens to long. Thankfully classic games look beautiful and that's what counts.

I think this is worse on the digital ("high res") models than the analog one, but it wouldn't surprise me on both.  The issue isn't actually the screen voltage.  They've just got the contrast cranked up way too high.  Easy enough to fix (just turn it down, and turn down brightness until black is actually black, too).

The CRTs are also junk, which is why they dome so easily.  Fortunately, this particular problem doesn't seem to burn them, just deform the shadow mask due to thermal effects, which is thankfully temporary (usually) until it cools down.

[Dawgz Rule]

Yeah, I had the same issue and turning down the brightness and contrast did the trick.  No issues since then. 

Falk3r, don't know if this will work with Win7 but try downloading AVRes.  There is a link at the ultimarc site for this.  This will allow to adjust the resolution down to as low as you would like.  I have mine set to 640x288 and my FE looks great.  Setting it to 640x480 will work with your monitor but will also force it to use interlaced mode.  I run WinXP SP3 which is why I am uncertain as to whether you will get the same results in Win7.

[Falk3r]

I just wanted to close the loop on both issues:

1) Looks great in-game. 

2) After selecting "Enable 640x480 Mode" from the boot menu once, Win7 has been happy with the MakVision.

Thanks guys! Case closed.