Wire Glue?

[SavannahLion]

I came across this during a Google search today. Has anyone used this stuff?

Sciplus 400 Electrically Conductive Soldering Gun Wire in a Jar
http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/b70c/
http://www.amazon.com/Sciplus-Electrically-Conductive-Soldering-Wire/dp/B000Z9H7ZW

The reviews seem to be split right down the middle on whether it works. I'm thinking it might be ideal to teach the kid how to wire up some ultra basic circuits without risking burns to her or a death to me.

On a pleasant side note, this might be a useful (or cheap or quick) way for someone to wire up their cabinet without investing significant sums of money in a soldering kit. Or someone not comfortable with soldering molten lead. But given the reviews, a DMM would be a requirement? You're going to need one anyways.

I dunno, thought I'd mention this particular product and see if anyone actually used it.

Why am I asking?
Reading this is optional..

Short story, my adopted twelve year old is an air head. We've nicknamed her Little Gold Fish... or at least I have. She's been pestering me to teach her the rudiments of circuit building. Which is fine and dandy but the concept of bread boards totally escapes her anew each and every day (think, "50 First Dates", and you get the idea.). She does, however, seem OK with my air wiring as she can physically follow the leads. I'm going to dig out some scrap wood boards and penny nails and see if that can get some more info hammered into her head.

Soldering is not an option for this one... I'm not kidding...

[Nephasth]

I've used something similar. It took a torch to "activate" it. It worked, but I would rather solder if given the option.

[Howard_Casto]

I haven't used it, but I know people who have played around with it.  According to them it's essentially fabric "puffy" paint with some conductive dust mixed it.  So it has all the pitfalls of fabric paint (can shrink, might not adhere well, temperature sensitive ect...)  It isn't really suited for high level electronics because the resistance of the "wire" is uneven due to the fact that it's in a suspension instead of a solid wire. 

[Gray_Area]

When someone asks me about doing something, I ask them why they want to do it. If they give a lame answer, I say something like, 'Nothing's telling me you want to do it.' My mom does this all the time, and I tell her there are all kinds of online resources to help her. Ergo, I'm not going to.

[SavannahLion]

When someone asks me about doing something, I ask them why they want to do it. If they give a lame answer, I say something like, 'Nothing's telling me you want to do it.' My mom does this all the time, and I tell her there are all kinds of online resources to help her. Ergo, I'm not going to.

Yet you answer to tell me you're not going to answer? Isn't that lame in and of itself?

[SavannahLion]

I've used something similar. It took a torch to "activate" it. It worked, but I would rather solder if given the option.

Unquestionably, I would rather solder myself. But this is for educational purposes for a kid that tends to hurt herself on mildly dangerous things. I can share the horror stories, but that would probably require an entire forum in and of itself. In a nutshell, she isn't allowed into the kitchen, garage, shed or "hobby" room alone.

I haven't used it, but I know people who have played around with it.  According to them it's essentially fabric "puffy" paint with some conductive dust mixed it.  So it has all the pitfalls of fabric paint (can shrink, might not adhere well, temperature sensitive ect...)  It isn't really suited for high level electronics because the resistance of the "wire" is uneven due to the fact that it's in a suspension instead of a solid wire. 

I took me hours but I finally found my wife's puffy fabric paint. I have to wonder if we're talking about the same thing. This stuff isn't really suited for much of anything except craft type stuff. The description on the sites for the conductive glue make it sound more like it's an epoxy of sorts.

No matter, I opted to use the traditional penny nail and wood method. It's less hair raising and she can follow the wiring.

[Howard_Casto]

Yeah unfortunately that is what I was talking about.  The wire in a tube idea isn't anything new and each brand has different properties... but it's usually a white glue/fabric paint sort of deal. 

[Vigo]

Does anyone remember those kids "Make your own circuit board" kits? I grew up on one of those. I remember it was pretty much a panel with circuit components already mounted, but you connect the wires via little springs attached to all the components. It always gave me a great visual of what was connected to what.

If they still make those, it is probably well suited for a kid who doesn't get what they don't physically see.

[ahofle]

We got this for our kids:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000683A4

Not exactly what you are asking for, but it's pretty neat.  Has a bunch of different electricity consuming devices (speaker, lights, motors) and plans for making various simple circuits.  Everything snaps together onto the board.

[Vigo]

Clever product! That got me on the right path, because now I see that is that same company that makes the circuit kit I grew up on. I found they still make something pretty similar to what I had as a kid:

http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Electronic-Playground-Learning-Center/dp/B0035XSZDI/ref=pd_sim_t_7

[Howard_Casto]

Those are the ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---!  They got me interested in programming and electronics.  You should go with something like that. 

[Gray_Area]

Yet you answer to tell me you're not going to answer? Isn't that lame in and of itself?

You're failing to understand my advice.

I fried a deluxe version in high school electronics......  I wasn't that into playing with fire, but hooking random ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- up. Oh yeah.

[SavannahLion]

Yet you answer to tell me you're not going to answer? Isn't that lame in and of itself?

You're failing to understand my advice.

I understood it well enough. I wanted to illicit a discussion, was that not understood? 

wow.... I completely forgot about those. I had one but my mother gave it away for some bizarre reason.

[lilshawn]

I'd have to agree. I had one of those "science fair" 99 in 1 kits from Radio shack when I was a kid and I built (and blew up) all kinds of things. Learned all kinds of things about how electricity works.

I always wanted the biggest kit... i think it was a 1000 in 1...with the breadboard and IC's and stuff but it was WAY out of my price range when i was a kid.

Radioshack still sells some of those kits in the US. Lord help you if you live in Canada, all the Rat Shacks changed their name to "the source" because you couldn't buy a radio there if you tried. Now a days, I walk in there and the guy is like "Can I help you?" I'm like probably not...I know more than you. 

[MonMotha]

The biggest they had when I was a kid was the 300 in one.  That one did have the breadboard in the middle and came with tons of ICs and whatnot.  I learned plenty from it (and blew up plenty).

I'm in a similar position with Radio Shack: "Can I help you?"  "Where are the bins?"  "In the back."  "Ok, thanks."

[Howard_Casto]

The rat shack guys are hopeless. 


I went in there a few months ago looking for a  rca 2 coaxial adaptor.  They explained that component and coaxial wasn't the same and that they didn't carry such an adaptor there.  I explained to them that I never mentioned component only rca and that I wanted it to be able to hook up old Atari consoles without a rf switch box.  Their reply... "What's an rf switcher?"  As asked them to move and within 30 seconds found the adaptor that didn't exist and that they didn't sell. 

Honestly how can you work at a store that small and not know everything in your inventory?

[lilshawn]

My oldest is 7 and whenever she sees me working on a computer or fixing the lawnmower or building some crazy contraption she's right in there watching what i'm doing...I've been thinking, your biggest mistake might be going too big too fast. hell half the time i can't remember which way the damn trace in the breadboard goes. start with simple simple simple things and go from there.

as i recall, back when i was in grade school (grade 4 or 5) we had tubs with these wires and bulbs and battery holders and other whatnots. Then we just had springs to connect the wires together same as the radioshack kits. get yourself a few battery holders and some stranded wire and just twist them together to make your connections for the time being.

but with these kits, we did simple circuits with the bulb and batteries...like test what things could conduct electricity (coins zippers pencil lead)... add switches to turn the light off and on.  doing some other more advanced things like water and then adding salt to improve the conductivity.

basically explain what each part does. the lightbulb has the squiggly thing inside that makes light. why does it make light? explain how not everything conducts electricity 100%. and how some allow almost all the electricity to flow, while others it has a hard time flowing through.

open circuits... the light is off because the electricity doesn't have a loop to flow through. this switch connects the wires together when you press it now it does  have a loop so the electricity can go now. this is a "circuit".

more batteries means more electricity...this is shown by a brighter light...go so far as to add so many batteries to make it so high the bulb burns out. why doesn't it work now? explain the circuit again.

so on and so on. once she starts getting the idea have her point out things like circuits and switches, they are everywhere.

small steps building upon things learned before will make things less frustrating for both of you. if we can't remember the previous "lesson" just quickly review it. (remember before how we hooked up the bulb to the really long wire and the bulb didn't glow as bright as it did with the short wire? this resistor is the same as that really long wire just in a tiny package)

so on, and so on.

after you have a good base and she seems genuinely interested in learning about circuits, start jumping into the more complicated things like the radioshack kits.

[MonMotha]

Some people also do well if you draw analogies to other systems.  One of the most powerful concepts in engineering is that you can mathematically turn one kind of system into another.

You might consider getting a small pump, a bunch of tubing, some valves, etc.  You can build hydraulic circuits.  Tends to be a bit messier, though.

[Howard_Casto]

It is true that electricity is a lot easier to understand if you think of it as flowing water.  I prefer the lazy river analogy myself. 

[SavannahLion]

The rat shack guys are hopeless. 


I went in there a few months ago looking for a  rca 2 coaxial adaptor.  They explained that component and coaxial wasn't the same and that they didn't carry such an adaptor there.  I explained to them that I never mentioned component only rca and that I wanted it to be able to hook up old Atari consoles without a rf switch box.  Their reply... "What's an rf switcher?"  As asked them to move and within 30 seconds found the adaptor that didn't exist and that they didn't sell. 

Honestly how can you work at a store that small and not know everything in your inventory?

I can explain that.
there are a multitude of problems ranging from the fact that about err.... 20% ish of the inventory is forcefully delivered to the stores. Basically they order component X and they get part Y, Z and stereo F. Orders are like requests.

Another problem are spiffs. They're like bonuses on top of their commission. Only certain things get spiffs and that's what they'll sell. 9 times outta 10. Spiff items are things that didnt sell or are going to be discontinued. In short if it's spiffed it's the same as being outmoded.

upsell upsell upsell. The only reason Rat Shack ever kept the two head vcr around for so long was so they can tack on an extra $50 to their crappy four head vcr.

what does this mean for you, the customer? Simple, if whatever your looking for falls into the first category and/or does not fall in to the later two, there is a very good chance they'll be ---smurfing--- clueless about it.

How stupid are they? They once tried to sell an bluetooth headset (spiff item) to my mom. What's the joke? She's deaf.

[Gray_Area]

It is true that electricity is a lot easier to understand if you think of it as flowing water.  I prefer the lazy river analogy myself. 

I think they need to ditch all the classical analogies, probably even when teaching classical mechanics stuff. Top-down and streamlined.

How stupid are they? They once tried to sell an bluetooth headset (spiff item) to my mom. What's the joke? She's deaf.

The problem is you have kids in there who don't know anything about technology, especially older technology, and they don't want to know. They're just trying to make a buck, and don't want to flip burgers or deliver pizza. The females are a bit better, actually.

[lilshawn]

How stupid are they? They once tried to sell an bluetooth headset (spiff item) to my mom. What's the joke? She's deaf.

The problem is you have kids in there who don't know anything about technology, especially older technology, and they don't want to know. They're just trying to make a buck, and don't want to flip burgers or deliver pizza. The females are a bit better, actually.
[/quote]

as a person who used to work a the rat shack (about 7 years ago for about 2 months) i can confirm this is true. some of the people who worked there used to know only about one or two things (cellphone, satellite, stereo, etc) and would commonly fudge their way through sales of something else spouting off all kinds of crap to make the sale. The customers could almost always tell it was bull plop too. I started the trend to "pass off" customers to other employees who where knowledgeable in their "fields" so the customers where satisfied with their experience. People where initially worried this would cut into their spiffs and quotas but it tended to even out because they would purchase other things as well. The experience truly became enjoyable and a learning experience for them.

I can only hope that store continues that practise today.

[SavannahLion]

I worked there too... for about a year IIRC about 15 years ago or so. That is exactly what they wanted us to do even back then but we were to split the spiff/commission if that occurred. But it's all a crock, it was always more about not losing the sale than ensuring the customer was paired with a salesperson with the correct knowledge.. Rat Shack will send you to a "flagship" or leader store to do the training for a few months. These stores are always high volume and tend to be large enough to support 4 or even 6 or more employees on the floor at a given time. Then they transfer you to a typical store where the average number of floor employees amount to 2, counting supervisors. With so few employees and such low volumes, it isn't unusual for people to BS their way to avoid splitting the sale.

At that point, any further training (if any) is limited to spiff items.

When you worked there, did Rat Shack still cite their goal of having a store within 5 (or 15 or something like that) minutes of everyone in America?

[lilshawn]

When you worked there, did Rat Shack still cite their goal of having a store within 5 (or 15 or something like that) minutes of everyone in America?

Canadian here, so we had a whole different fiasco to deal with. (more later)

No, but I've heard that before. One of the the guys I worked with mentioned something along those lines (I also worked with him at a call center at a 2nd job) he said he's heard it someplace, but not actually from RS. 

I always thought that companies who saturate the market like that just end up fighting over the same customers.

around the time I worked there, the canadian radioshacks where run by interTAN (a spinoff of the Tandy corporation) who got bought out by Circuit City. a few weeks later radioshack sued interTAN over some contract thing. in the end they had to dump all the old intertan owned brand items...later (after i had left) they changed all the radioshack store name to "The Source by Circuit City" and later still, sold to Bell and renamed "The Source"

at the time i worked there, this fiasco resulted in severely depleted stock for us (because we couldn't sell it) and frustrated customers because we had nothing they wanted, and we had nothing to sell. "sure i can sell you a TV and a DVD player, but I have no cables to connect them" 

[Howard_Casto]

Radio Shack is a lost cause imho mostly due to their dramatic shift in what they sell.  I used to stop by there daily in my highschool/college days because if I need a random doodle bob, even though it was expensive, they'd probably have it. 

Shortly after that, they pretty much stopped selling electronics all-together.  Even stranger they stopped selling radio and cb equipment.  How the hell do you call your store Radio Shack and not sell radios?  For a long period of time RS sold cell phones.. and that was pretty much it.  Which I guess would have been fine, except in our particular city there is a cell phone store right next to every single solitary RS in town.  I mean that literally.  I guess corporate didn't get that memo. 

Now they have partnered Makezine to sell electronics kits and they are getting in toys and other misc stuff that they used to sell, but anybody will tell you that makezine's electronic kits are way over-priced and with the typical RS markup there's just no point.  A result is they do have a slightly larger parts selection now, but it isn't all that great.  I went in there yesterday looking for a DPDT switch ANY DPDT switch and they didn't have a single one.  I guess I'll order 20 from china, that's the only way I can get them cheaply at this point.   

[Ed_McCarron]

Find this:


My copy's a bit beat up, it's been around for 20+ years.  Forrest Mims is one of my personal heroes.

[SavannahLion]

That title is eerily familiar..... hmmm.....

[lilshawn]

i remember in highschool there was a little margin snippet in the "beginners electronics" book we used. said something about the "class clown" charging up a capacitor and "tossing it to an unsuspecting pal" now, i'm no psychologist, but you know what the first thing people did when they read this??