Xbox One

[Howard_Casto]

Sheesh man I don't want to hear any complaints about the Wii U anymore. 

Keep in mind I'm a big fan of Microsoft's consoles but going down the list:

One?   It's your third console!  I don't want to hear any more crap about the Wii U being a confusing name. 

Mandatory Kinect?  Didn't we all agree that the Kinect was a failed experiment and that absolutely nobody over the age of 10 wants one?

No games announced other than lame sports titles which they heavily push at EVERY E3.  Seriously are the EA guys giving the Microsoft people free bj's every weekend?

The console is a cable box that just happens to play games.  Seems good until you realize that thus far zero games companies have been able to successfully get more than 25% of the cable market to cooperate with this sort of thing and even then, only to a very limited (read not as good as real cable) sort of way.  I was sold on this with the wii u and tvii, until those features were released and I realized that even with their best intentions it was a bit underwhelming.  It's entirely the media companies' fault.  My cable company for example (suddenlink) doesn't allow cable cards... at all, period.  They do this because they want full control of the hardware on their system to prevent piracy.  So how is Microsoft going to convince them to allow the One to work on their network?

It's more powerful sure, but not crazily so.  In the 8 years since launch they've added a lot more ram, but from what we know thus far the processor and other specs aren't much more powerful than the ps3.....  It's only speculation at this point though, so keep that in mind. 

This is one of those deals where I'll probably buy one eventually because some games will be released that I want, but while the Wii U's press conference left me mildly confused, this one makes me want to pull out the nothankyou.gif

[DaveMMR]

Yup, "Xbox One." That won't be confusing at all.  It's like when Apple named the 3rd Generation iPad "iPad" (i.e. not to be confused with the original iPad, also named iPad.)

But whatever on the name - I just never had any excited for Microsoft's console - any of them. I still have a shelf half-full of original Xbox games that are great but I just lack the drive to spend the $30 on a replacement console to play them.

I suppose they want to really shove that Kinect in people's faces though I don't know anyone who even uses theirs anymore.

I dunno - maybe I'm just not the intended audience anymore. 

[hypernova]

The PS4 and XB1 have almost identical specs.

This one may underwhelm you, but for this generation, someone has to win.  It certainly won't be Nintendo.  Consumers will buy one of those two.  No matter how craptastic each may or may not be. 

I'm curious as to the Live fees.  I've not heard good things leading up to this point.  They still need to elaborate on it for me.

[opt2not]

This one may underwhelm you, but for this generation, someone has to win.  It certainly won't be Nintendo.

Also given the fact that EA stated they're not making games for the WiiU, that in itself destroys Nintendo's chances. Sports titles aside, games like Lego Star Wars (EA's co-production) will be a huge hit to Nintendo's market.

[Howard_Casto]

The PS4 and XB1 have almost identical specs.

This one may underwhelm you, but for this generation, someone has to win.  It certainly won't be Nintendo.  Consumers will buy one of those two.  No matter how craptastic each may or may not be. 

I'm curious as to the Live fees.  I've not heard good things leading up to this point.  They still need to elaborate on it for me.

That's what people said with the Wii, even as it was topping sales records.  The 3ds also had a similar slump upon it's launch... it's now the top selling handheld even though the vita is much more powerful.  My guess is the Wii U will come in a strong second this gen, but I've learned never to count them out. 

I'm not sure where that crack came from though.  I never said anything about Nintendo's console being the best this go around, I just meant that from what we know thus far, the new xbox certainly isn't any less ridiculous in terms of media message and direction. 

Live fee's raised dramatically from the xbox one... err I mean xbox "classic" to the 360.  If they do get cable partnerships, expect the cost to be ridiculously high.  Because as you know, there are no teirs in a gold membership..... if you want to run ANYTHING internet related, they charge you for all of it. 

[Well Fed Games]

For whatever reason I was holding out hope that even if disc-based stuff wouldn't play on the next gen of consoles, the digital (XBLA) stuff would. Sadly (but not surprisingly) I was wrong. Between backwards compatibility going to the wayside, the need for an online connection (which means that a server somewhere has to be active for the systems to work properly), and games that are "locked" to accounts.... I fear that it will be harder to preserve the next generation of games, compared to the Intellevision-PS2 age when any game still works as long as the hardware itself is functional.

I am a late adopter (still no PS3), hate the fact that I probably won't be able to pick up and play $5 used Xbox One games in a couple years. I see myself more likely to put money into a Steambox, Ouya, or retro consoles than any of the three consoles that will be on the market this year.

The Xbox One (Xbone) news is still fresh but I kinda get the negative backlash I am seeing all over.

[Howard_Casto]

So PC gamers will have nothing to worry about.  Unless it is a PC port in the first place...

Not sure where you've been living, but the era of pc games coming out first then then being down-ported to the consoles is long gone.  Nearly every top-tier pc release in the last 5 years or so has been a port of a 360 game.  The graphics are better certainly, but they are limited in terms of scope/ect to whatever will fit on the 360.  You have companies like Capcom and Sega that release their pc ports sometimes a full year after the console release, which not much improvement to justify the wait.  This is why pc gaming has been in a huge slump. 

So unfortunately, a bad console generation effects the whole industry.  At least the Wii U has some actual games slated for release. 

[Howard_Casto]

For whatever reason I was holding out hope that even if disc-based stuff wouldn't play on the next gen of consoles, the digital (XBLA) stuff would. Sadly (but not surprisingly) I was wrong. Between backwards compatibility going to the wayside, the need for an online connection (which means that a server somewhere has to be active for the systems to work properly), and games that are "locked" to accounts.... I fear that it will be harder to preserve the next generation of games, compared to the Intellevision-PS2 age when any game still works as long as the hardware itself is functional.

I am a late adopter (still no PS3), hate the fact that I probably won't be able to pick up and play $5 used Xbox One games in a couple years. I see myself more likely to put money into a Steambox, Ouya, or retro consoles than any of the three consoles that will be on the market this year.

The Xbox One (Xbone) news is still fresh but I kinda get the negative backlash I am seeing all over.

I didn't even touch on that stuff because it's such an utterly stupid and ridiculous business model that there's no way it could be true.  I'm expecting that part to be cleared up somewhat at E3.  If all the speculation IS true they are doomed. 


I blame this on the gaming community at large.... when these digital download options started popping up I warned everyone not to do it.  The reason is money talks..... Microsoft wouldn't try to charge you twice for the same game if they didn't have research based on test programs that show you DO pay twice for the same damn game.  I still buy a cd when I want music, because I OWN that cd and as long as it doesn't get scratched I can play it on any media player. 

Convenience like direct downloading comes at the rather expensive price of retailers realizing that they can make more money by selling and inferior product and dumping their physical media.

[SNAAKE]

why is it called xbox1? sounds kinda retarded considering we already had an xbox1 before I modded hundreds of those lol. what was wrong with xbox720? that would have been just fine.

I dont even know what it looks like. maybe I will google it. or not

[RyoriNoTetsujin]

I dont even know what it looks like. maybe I will google it. or not

Google "black rectangle." There ya go -- both the PS4 and the X-Box One.

The more I see of it, the more I think I'm going to sit this gen out, at least for the first year or three. Plenty of great (and now easily affordable) games to catch up on in the meantime.

[SNAAKE]

lol@ the controller. thats a HUGE BISH

!

[SithMaster]

Xbox^3 (read xboxcubed) would have made more sense and be less confusing in conversation.  Lets hope this time around the heatsink has a fan on it to prevent overheating though with all the software blunders I don't see that happening.

From what I've read about installation its something like this (somewhat quoted from a wired article):
Disc installation mandatory
    ..when you buy an Xbox One game, you'll get a unique code that you enter when you install that game. You'll have to connect to the Internet in order to authorize that code, and the code can only be used once. Once you use it, that game will then be linked to your Xbox Live account. "It sits on your harddrive and you have permission to play that game as long as you’d like," Harrison said.

    Other users on the console will be able to play that game as well, Harrison said. So you don't need to buy multiple games per family. "With the built-in parental controls of the system it is shared among the users of the device," he said.

To summarize: Microsoft pretty much went anticonsumer/pro publisher,  Gamestop is cut out of the loop unless you need the actual disc to be able to purchase the pass to install the game (doubtful), forced kinect on everyone, forced more media/social aspects, will probably force more ads in the dashboard while still charging monthly fees, and probably a bunch more that they plan to hide until release day.

edit-more confusion since that nelson guy says you can trade and sell games at retail, perhaps even resell the license over live to someone, and if you have your profile on a friends xbox you can play the game on it.  Somehow microsoft PR has managed to contradict itself.

[SavannahLion]

I had this huge long rant going until I realized it was just too long and far too rambling.

In a nutshell, my thinking is as follows:

A) Hardware should be designed to do one (or two) things and one thing well. A printer and a scanner should be a great printer and a great scanner. I'm not too fond of my printer+scanner (it sits under my desk, disused). The same goes for my truck, the van, my game consoles, the TV, my ovens, my wife, whatever. Naturally, there are exceptions, Swiss Army knifes, shotguns, house boats, etc. But the exceptions do not make the norm and very rarely ever replace dedicated things outright. And as complex as modern game consoles are, Microsoft and Sony have both lost focus. Designing great gaming hardware for which great gaming software can be created.

B) For the first time since I was a tot, I am completely and totally underwhelmed with the new consoles. I am disappointed that the company is trying to make the console the panacea of the home entertainment center. I am disappointed at the over-the-top steps they have taken to ensure DMCA and increasing cash flow. I am disappointed with the overly intrusive GUI's on both systems (Microsoft is much worse). And I am especially disappointed with the artificially enforced requirements (Kinect, always online, game registration).

Try as I might, I just can't get excited about the new consoles. I really can't. I read the articles. I look at the pictures and all I can think of, is how disappointing my kids futures will be. Having to wade through this dark time in gaming because of the immense load of ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- being foisted on consumers.

[nipsmg]

The #1 thing I am looking for clarification on before I make my decision is the rumor about games being locked to consoles, or not being able to buy/sell used games.

Beyond nostalgia, there's a reason why I'm into casual games:  They don't (usually) require a large time commitment.  I have very little disposable time, and I don't have 60-70 hours to play a console game.  I generally get a console, will borrow a game from someone, it'll sit around for 2 months, then I'll finally get a chance to play it, like it, and buy it.  The cycle works like this for me.

The rumor has been that basically you buy a game disc, it has some kind of one-use activation code, and once you've used it it's dead.  No bringing a game to a friend's house.  No carrying the disc from your downstairs to your upstairs console.  No buying used games.

If that happens, there is literally zero chance of me buying it.  Period.

I'm with Howard.  I 100% agreed with his warning about DLC.  Now, you can't even get a smartphone game without it telling you "You've exhausted your plays for the day.  Pay $9.99 for 1000 more coins/smurfberries/tokens/whatever". It's garbage, it's totally diluting the whole market, and it's REALLY pissing me off.

 

[danny_galaga]

Meh. All of the consoles will sell, no matter what retarded set up they have (eg: gotta be online to work). Why? Younger generations are NOT us. They are used to a different model of buying stuff. Yes, there is a large segment of buyers who are old folk like us, but you don't design mod cons for geriatrics 

Now get offa my lawn!

[Malenko]

Being a microsoft fanboi, I wont be buying this console. I wont be getting a WiiU. I wont be getting a PS4. They will still sell and make billions in hardware and software, but none of it will be mine. I have tons of games for numerous systems to play and I dont really care about the next call of duty or madden, so I should be ok for quite a while. A new console set up is about $500 after you buy extra controllers and some games, I look at that and think "I could get a couple of arcade machines" 

[lordnacho]

BUY BUY BUY I must have slightly better graphics than last gen console!!!!!!

My ps3 and wii both are paper weights these days, so I'll resist.  Until my kids beg me for one, there's no point. 
I will say though if the xbox uno can play all my media as easily as my htpc/xbmc and replace my ps3/blu-ray, then it's somewhat intriguing. 

I am sure the average BYOAC'er has 10K plus games in his or her collection not including current gen console.

Agreed

[spoot]

Wow, over an hour for the "launch" and only around 8-10 minutes of actual content.  Smurf the mandatory Kinect as I have to unplug mine when watching movies as the POS will issue commands......even when it's "off" in the xbox settings.

They pretty much glossed over everything technical which is what I wanted......wasn't interested in the EA and CoD handjob.

[ChadTower]

A) Hardware should be designed to do one (or two) things and one thing well. A printer and a scanner should be a great printer and a great scanner. I'm not too fond of my printer+scanner (it sits under my desk, disused). The same goes for my truck, the van, my game consoles, the TV, my ovens, my wife, whatever. Naturally, there are exceptions, Swiss Army knifes, shotguns, house boats, etc.

Dude's wife should only do one thing and do it really well but his shotgun is best used for multiple purposes.

Awesome.

[RandyT]

Color me disenfranchised.

I won't re-iterate what has already been said, but all of it is true.  Locking down content in the way that both of the new systems are, is just paving the way for a "pay to play" model where, at some point, they start giving away start up content ("demos"), and start charging hourly, or "per play" beyond the demo level.  The cloud based setup facilitates this.  These machines are designed from the ground up to be nothing more than a recurring revenue generator.  A "slot machine" in your living room, as it were.  I would have said Arcade machine, but that is giving it too much credit.  Oh, and you get to pay for the hardware (dearly) that will keep sucking at your bank account.  And the system gets to watch you play, along with whatever else you may be doing.  You can't even unplug the damned camera.  "Big Brother" is here.

Meh.  Time to start buying up used 360 and PS3 games to make sure there's no reason to ever look at these abominations again.  Too harsh?

About the only good thing about this generation is that it will open the doors to indie hardware and software in ways which were never before possible, mainly because people will now be looking harder for alternatives.

[Howard_Casto]

In regards to EA dropping support for the Wii U, it all starts to make sense.  They proudly announced that they'd remove their online pass system.  Why?  Because now Microsoft has a built in online  pass system and it's rumored that EA will charge an  additional fee and/or get a cut of M$'s fee.  So why would they support a console that requires the internet service to be free and doesn't allow online pass systems when they can join team rip-off and charge you for the same damn game twice!   

I found this yesterday.  I pretty much sums up my feeling about the thing.  I laughed my butt off, and then I got sad because I realized that everything he said was in no way an exaggeration. 

[spoot]

I found this yesterday.  I pretty much sums up my feeling about the thing.  I laughed my butt off, and then I got sad because I realized that everything he said was in no way an exaggeration. 

Haha, that was amusing.......till you realize he's right.   

[lilshawn]

boy, that wii-u is looking better and better.

xbox1 - the cable box that also plays games.

yes, we have that with the 360. you can get "telus TV" on your 360. (here anyways i dunno about anywhere else.) but yeah, just what i want... to watch TV. SMH.

no backwards compatibility - that's a bummer.

mediocre graphics improvement. - meh, I play most of my games on PC. bla bla bla PC master race yadda yadda. but it's true.

charged a fee for used games to enable them on the console. - that's a killer for me. big brother aside, there is no reason for that but to appease the game companies. so you charge to buy a game, charge to play the game online, then if i transfer my user agreement to someone else...which legally I'm allowed to do...you charge them to play it too? to top it all off, the copy on my console ceases to work? F-off Microsoft. you have enough of my money that's for sure. this is the end of this cash cow. Your nickle and dimeing the consumers ends here. You'd best re-think your business model.

[Howard_Casto]

You know, I never thought I would say this, but if the ps4 is reasonably priced, I might get one of those instead. 

[RandyT]

You know, I never thought I would say this, but if the ps4 is reasonably priced, I might get one of those instead.

From the sound of it, that would pretty much be out of the frying pan...er, um, back into the frying pan.  Everything I dislike about the PS4 has reared it's ugly head on this thing.  The sad thing is, MS actually had a chance to differentiate itself, and claim to be the system for gamers.  Instead, they chose to do a "hey, let's create a situation where there is no option for consumers, and if they want the shiny-new-repackaged-tired-genres, we can force them to do what lines our collective pockets".

I shall choose to abstain.

BTW, that video was great.  He had me going until about half way through.

[Howard_Casto]

I don't think the ps4 is as bad in terms of drm, fees, ect....  That's what has me worried.  Yeah crap like mandatory Kinect and hdmi in are stupid, but if I can own physical copies of games I could deal with it. 

[EightBySix]

... I quite liked it ...

And the name ... Intended to mean one device, not first device. Like the one ring to rule them all in lotr...

I'd be surprised if they pull off the tv provider integration, but I can see the benefits if they do. The kids already like to use the iPad in conjunction with the X factor type shows, with a surface or windows phone it could be much tighter.

Always online isn't needed for single player games or media playback. Thats just what we have now, surely

I'll get one, but I'll make a lens cap of some sort .. An always on, internet connected cam in the living room? No thanks

[opt2not]

I wouldn't be surprised if Time Warner was the first to jump on this, just like they did with the Sega Channel BITD.

Here in Canada, one of the cable companies in the west named Telus had already adopted watching TV through Xbox 360 via "Optik TV". if I remember correctly they had a promotion a couple years ago that bundled a free 360 with any newly signed accounts.

Not sure if this service happened in the States, I'm too lazy to google it, but technically it's not a new thing. It's just more prominent in M$'s marketing now: they're trying to grab the TV generation who all have gaming kids now. 

The battle for your living-room is on!

I've said it elsewhere, but if it were any time for Sega to get back into the hardware market, now would be the time. C'mon Sega, make a console for the real gamers!

[Malenko]

And the name ... Intended to mean one device, not first device. Like the one ring to rule them all in lotr...

Oh cool, a reason for me to like it even less!

Much like Randy, I think I'll abstain for the "next generation" of consoles.

[paigeoliver]

Don't real gamers use PCs these days? The games are way, way cheaper. They are cheaper on day one and they fall in price, much, much faster. There are generally no subscription fees. The available PC library is much, much larger than any console. The console hardware is basically obsolete compared to PC hardware on launch day, much less years down the road.

Sure, the consoles have some exclusive titles, big whoop, the PC does as well. There are more quality games released every year than I could ever hope to play anyway.

[Howard_Casto]

Not really.  The average cost of a game console is 300 bucks.   That's a decent amount of money, but you are guaranteed to have it last you at least 5 years. You could easily spend 1000 on a pc only to have it obsolete a couple of years later.  The library is larger, but it's a different library.  Most console games don't get a pc release, or like I said, the release is long after the console version came out. 

Also you've got steam, drm, mandatory installs, ect to deal with on the pc.  The whole concept of a console is you put in the disc and it plays..... no hassle, no wasted time.  Of course the Xbox1 is no better than a pc in that regard based on what we've heard. 

[opt2not]

Yet current-gen gaming mimics PC gaming with installing, updates/patches, subscription services, etc...it's become PC gaming lite.

Though, with the stuff M$ and Sony is pulling, I may just forgo this gen and spend my money on a good PC that'll last me at least those precious 2 years. But boy, they will be a glorious 2 years.

[RandyT]

Not really.  The average cost of a game console is 300 bucks.   That's a decent amount of money, but you are guaranteed to have it last you at least 5 years. You could easily spend 1000 on a pc only to have it obsolete a couple of years later.

That may be the average cost at this stage of the game, but certainly not once these hit the market.  The $1000 PC might end up "obsolete" in the PC realm in a couple of years (although doubtful, based in the pace of innovation) but that doesn't mean that new games won't run on it anymore.  It will be as much machine as it was when you bought it.  If you have to turn down some elements of the new games in order to play them, then so be it.  Those elements probably don't even exist on the console version.

It's not probable that the 5 year old console with less capable hardware will somehow out pace the PC.  Not to mention that older games will run full tilt on the snappy new hardware without breaking a sweat.

But, not everything on consoles is on the PC, so if that is troublesome, what choice is there?

[paigeoliver]

Gaming PCs have much longer lifespans these days now that developers have to think seriously about dumbed down console and mobile platforms for their titles. My gaming PC is now 5 years old. I have replaced the video card once or twice, but it is otherwise basically as it left the factory 5 years ago, and it still more than meets the system requirements for games that have come out this year. In fact, it still outspecs some of the brand new budget systems I could go out and buy new right now. I'll probably get another year out of it for new titles before developers start targeting the next gen consoles heavily at which point I will need to upgrade.

Sure, every console has exclusives. But the PC actually has more of them than any of the consoles do. Granted, PC exclusives mostly fall into the realm of indy, budget, casual and MMO but those are still major portions of the gaming market.

Now that console games are seriously starting to get into the area of DRM and accounts and non-transferable games they have pretty much lost their last major selling point over the PC. Not that I consider Steam difficult, honestly it is easier than dealing with real disks, much easier. Sure I can't resell the games, but 90 percent of my game library was purchased for such a fraction of what console games cost that it just isn't an issue.

Sure a lot of developers launch the console versions first? So what? All that does is lets me know 6 months in advance if the game is going to be any good or not.

[Howard_Casto]

Sure, every console has exclusives. But the PC actually has more of them than any of the consoles do. Granted, PC exclusives mostly fall into the realm of indy, budget, casual and MMO but those are still major portions of the gaming market.

Well that's the problem right there.  Most console gamers (myself included) couldn't give a crap about mmo's and indie stuff.  So they are exclusives to be certain, but exclusives that don't matter to the console gamer.  Let's put it this way, you are never going to see Mario, Zelda or Metroid.... or Halo (at least not anymore) or any of your more famous Sony exclusives on the PC.  THAT is what is troubling because these are the top selling games of all time.

I've said it in another thread, although I'm fully satisfied with my purchase of the Wii U, I knew that it was going to be a slow start... but I bought it anyway because I had to.  Why?  Because I love Mario Zelda and Metroid, and if I want to continue playing those games I have to get the latest system.  I honestly can't think of a single pc title that I feel that way about or for that matter have ever felt about since I first got a pc decades ago. 

The only ones I can think of got console ports, because if you want to hit a larger market, you sell your game on a console, so all the greats like Doom Portal ect... they are all available on consoles.  Mind you I prefer to play these titles on the pc, but I just happen to have had a pc powerful enough to play these games when they were released, I wouldn't go out and buy a pc just to play them.   

Sure a lot of developers launch the console versions first? So what? All that does is lets me know 6 months in advance if the game is going to be any good or not.

That doesn't work for me, or a lot of people really.  It's like trying to watch a movie a year after it's released... unless you stick your fingers in your ears for that length of time, somebody will spoil some or all of the best parts of the game for you.  And of course the community surrounding the game is often dead by then. 

I think what I took offense to is the fact that you said the "hardcore" play on the pc, which is utterly ridiculous.  Many hardcore titles are Nintendo titles like Zelda, Metroid and the 2d Marios, and those aren't released on the pc.  WOW and FPS (aka brown and gray town) can have hardcore players, but that's only two genres. 

[danny_galaga]

This gives us some breathing room to go back and enjoy all those games we have in our collection.

Amen brother. I just tidied up my game room and have been blasting Metropolis Street Racer on the Dreamcast. Last night some 1080 on N64 (",)

(I have since tidied up the cables a bit )

[ChadTower]

In this day and age, why cannot we have just one cable?

Because a device that tries to do everything rarely does any of them very well.

[johnm]

I was waiting for him to start singing Numa numa

[paigeoliver]

Now the Wii basically lives on another planet as the rest of the gaming world and doesn't really compare well with Xbox, Playstation and PC, it is like an apples and oranges thing. I'll agree it has some very worthy exclusive titles.

But, Xbox, Playstation and PC all tend to have an absolutely massive title overlap, particularly amongst the big titles that people seem to care about and in that world the PC is easily the system of choice. In fact, a serious gamer who buys a lot of games would save so much money by going primarily PC that you could easily just buy that other console for the exclusives you miss on PC and still come out ahead.

I am generally not a big fan of buying all your games on release date. I think it is absolutely the way to get the very least for your gaming dollar. I usually wait a year and buy that $60 console release for $10 on steam. I can't say that I have every had a game spoiled by buying it later than release, however I have ultimately felt like a chump about most of the games I bought on release day only to see them for half price or less long before I every complete them.

Sure, every console has exclusives. But the PC actually has more of them than any of the consoles do. Granted, PC exclusives mostly fall into the realm of indy, budget, casual and MMO but those are still major portions of the gaming market.

Well that's the problem right there.  Most console gamers (myself included) couldn't give a crap about mmo's and indie stuff.  So they are exclusives to be certain, but exclusives that don't matter to the console gamer.  Let's put it this way, you are never going to see Mario, Zelda or Metroid.... or Halo (at least not anymore) or any of your more famous Sony exclusives on the PC.  THAT is what is troubling because these are the top selling games of all time.

I've said it in another thread, although I'm fully satisfied with my purchase of the Wii U, I knew that it was going to be a slow start... but I bought it anyway because I had to.  Why?  Because I love Mario Zelda and Metroid, and if I want to continue playing those games I have to get the latest system.  I honestly can't think of a single pc title that I feel that way about or for that matter have ever felt about since I first got a pc decades ago. 

The only ones I can think of got console ports, because if you want to hit a larger market, you sell your game on a console, so all the greats like Doom Portal ect... they are all available on consoles.  Mind you I prefer to play these titles on the pc, but I just happen to have had a pc powerful enough to play these games when they were released, I wouldn't go out and buy a pc just to play them.   

Sure a lot of developers launch the console versions first? So what? All that does is lets me know 6 months in advance if the game is going to be any good or not.

That doesn't work for me, or a lot of people really.  It's like trying to watch a movie a year after it's released... unless you stick your fingers in your ears for that length of time, somebody will spoil some or all of the best parts of the game for you.  And of course the community surrounding the game is often dead by then. 

I think what I took offense to is the fact that you said the "hardcore" play on the pc, which is utterly ridiculous.  Many hardcore titles are Nintendo titles like Zelda, Metroid and the 2d Marios, and those aren't released on the pc.  WOW and FPS (aka brown and gray town) can have hardcore players, but that's only two genres.

[northerngames]

I dont support of any of the virtual account games with anything including pc and by the sounds of these it will be console's too.

if they need to be online and do what others stated with a 1 install on your machine only I will never buy a current console again period.

that will totally crush the gaming market in the long run.